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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

thunderkyss said:
No where close to the meaning of "draft well"
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Of course not and has nothing to do with my post. We can go for QB for next three years. If Texans want one now the annual GTD $ is absorbable. If McNairs want a QB and Caserio/Ryans draft the one they want, failure goes to the top and perhaps in the future keeps them out of process. None of us want to miss at 2 yet we can and survive.
 
SnakeEyes said:
Levis is going to be good, but he needs time to learn and polish his game. I think Cal would force him into action by mid season if we pick him. Could he be ready...not sure. I see him and Richardson as similar to Mahomes. Oddly, he both are listed with similar issues, Richardson with more. But, both improv throws, can toss a ball 60yrds off platform, throw sidearm off balance and more. I think Richardson will be the best QB in the class IF he can get his head in it and put in the work to get there. Levis is pretty close behind in talent and is going to blow the combine apart. After the combine I'm better QB order is Levis, Stroud and Young and Richardson could potentially swap spots if he can impress in both interviews and on field.
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I wouldn't bank on anybody with "head" "work ethic" "drive" "motivation" related concerns.

If he doesn't want it by now, he'll never want it. Those types of players never work. Ever.

A Team Of JJs.

They should rename the team the Houston Team Of JJs and work to fulfill that.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problem I can see is the playing out of.............if a GM chooses a 1:1 QB, he lives and dies by that player's success or failure............a reason that Rick Smith kept avoiding that QB pick for so many years.
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That's preferable to dying with another guy's QB. The Bears will have to make a decision on Fields 5th year option next off season.

I liked Fields going into the draft. Great athlete, great arm, great production. I thought it would be no problem for a NFL coaching staff to get Fields NFL ready. Well, two staffs later and that hasn't happened yet. How much has it been the coaches vs the player? I don't know but the clock is ticking. If I'm sitting there with the #1 pick, I've got to think long and hard about whether Fields is my QB for the future. The GM and HC got the job to win games, not collect draft picks.
 
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Lucky said:
That's preferable to dying with another guy's QB. The Bears will have to make a decision on Fields 5th year option next off season.

I liked Fields going into the draft. Great athlete, great arm, great production. I thought it would be no problem for a NFL coaching staff to get Fields NFL ready. Well, two staffs later and that hasn't happened yet. How much has it been the coaches vs the player? I don't know but the clock is ticking. If I'm sitting there with the #1 pick, I've got to think long and hard about whether Fields is my QB for the future. The GM and HC got the job to win games, not collect draft picks.
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Fields started putting it together this year. I saw him play several times and he was growing by leaps and bounds. Not quite where you want him to be yet, but he was becoming a real weapon as a runner and making good strides as a passer albeit still below average. Personally I am giving him 2023 before I consider pulling the plug to see if he continues to move forward.
 
Lucky said:
That's preferable to dying with another guy's QB. The Bears will have to make a decision on Fields 5th year option next off season.

I liked Fields going into the draft. Great athlete, great arm, great production. I thought it would be no problem for a NFL coaching staff to get Fields NFL ready. Well, two staffs later and that hasn't happened yet. How much has it been the coaches vs the player? I don't know but the clock is ticking. If I'm sitting there with the #1 pick, I've got to think long and hard about whether Fields is my QB for the future. The GM and HC got the job to win games, not collect draft picks.
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I won't strongly argue otherwise. But being the other guy's QB gives the GM some extra time while claiming "he was not my pick."
 
Porky said:
Fields started putting it together this year. I saw him play several times and he was growing by leaps and bounds. Not quite where you want him to be yet, but he was becoming a real weapon as a runner and making good strides as a passer albeit still below average. Personally I am giving him 2023 before I consider pulling the plug to see if he continues to move forward.
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If I decided to ride or die with Fields, I would bring in Greg Roman, former Ravens OC. Roman has shown he can win at some level with a running QB. Because that's what the Bears have got. If I'm a team drafting Richardson, I might do the same.
 
leebigeztx said:
So when Smith was drafting those big slow Big 10 guys for BOB, wasn't that on BOB or Smith?
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Who was making the final calls on draft picks?

The pic when Derrick was picked answers that question.

The Peter Principle has been in effect for yrs down on Kirby and that includes both GM's RS/BOB.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I won't strongly argue otherwise. But being the other guy's QB gives the GM some extra time while claiming "he was not my pick."
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If I'm a GM I want a QB that's just starting his rookie deal.

Not an overrated tailback that can throw the ball a little bit and I've got to make a decision to pay him soon knowing that when I pay him I'm lowering my chances of ever winning a championship.
 
Texian said:
And if they take the wrong QB that sets them back another 5 years. The chance of that happening is exponentially greater.
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Yes Sir you are right about that !
Potentially it's a very high ceiling but also potentially the other extreme is a floor that's way, way down there.
Drafting NFL QBs high in the first round is not for the faint-hearted.
 
leebigeztx said:
The problem with this is the theory. IMO, BB is such a great coach of coaches that majority of those players never perform up to their Patriot days that its almost impossible to evaluate what Caserio actually did in relationship to the Patriots. I mean when it comes to the db and oline play, that was scarneckia and Hoodie. They've had lower round and undrafted dbs perform at all pro levels. We've also witnessed those o-line players play the same being coached up by Scarneckia and Brady navigating the pocket and getting the ball out in 2 seconds. BB is arguably not only the greatest head coach, but he is also the greatest defensive coach of all time.
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There's a case to be made for these kinds of thoughts. Coaching definitely matters. I'm happy with the results of Caserio's 1st full draft, other than the Stingley pick. Hopefully that continues down on Kirby.
 
welsh texan said:
A big issue the Texans will face if waiting for their QB @33 is it becomes easy for someone to jump ahead of them.

I don’t want to force a QB pick this year if the guy they want isn’t there, but if they really like someone at the top of the 2nd round, then we need to be at peace with them trading up and then reaching for whoever that is.
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Plus trading into the bottom of the 1st give you the 5th yr option. That alone makes trading up worth the price of trading up 4-5 spots to get your guy.
 
Lucky said:
That's preferable to dying with another guy's QB. The Bears will have to make a decision on Fields 5th year option next off season.

I liked Fields going into the draft. Great athlete, great arm, great production. I thought it would be no problem for a NFL coaching staff to get Fields NFL ready. Well, two staffs later and that hasn't happened yet. How much has it been the coaches vs the player? I don't know but the clock is ticking. If I'm sitting there with the #1 pick, I've got to think long and hard about whether Fields is my QB for the future. The GM and HC got the job to win games, not collect draft picks.
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Fields should be praying he is traded. Colts seem to be a good location .
 
TexansFan15 said:
I as a fan would be livid if that deal was made. NC navigated the DW trade well. Let’s not blow all the capital by trading up 1 spot.

If we do trade up to 1, then it better just be a ‘24 2nd rounder and that’s it. Maybe throw in Cooks as part of the deal.
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The more I think about it, the more I question many of the mock drafters, talking heads and expert evaluators re. the Bryce Young train. Too many things going through my head. His height.........quibble over 1/2 inch one way or the other...........he is still short. Gaining weight to even 200 lbs (which some are projecting as his Combine weight) will not make up for his rather relatively slight frame. He had already gained ~11 pounds in the past 2 years to get to 194 pounds. If he does get to 200 pounds, will it have any effect on his mobility? Will he even be able to maintain that weight? And will he maintain any semblance of durability with the weekly big boys in the NFL. Will his college skill set translate well to the NFL?

Young has been essentially only a 2 year college player. The concern has to be especially emphasized by how Kyler Murray, who is of comparable size at 5-10, 207 pounds, has missed 9 games and played hurt for the past two seasons. No one is speaking of Young's injury history at all.........apparently blowing it off as insignificant. Four A/C joint and one rotator cuff injury, even though grade I and II, is not insignificant in a 2-year history. Maybe Young can join Tua in his Judo classes.

I retain too many questions regarding Young to even take him at 1:2, let alone to consider trading up for him (especially for the King's ransom that it likely will take).
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The more I think about it, the more I question many of the mock drafters, talking heads and expert evaluators re. the Bryce Young train. Too many things going through my head. His height.........quibble over 1/2 inch one way or the other...........he is still short. Gaining weight to even 200 lbs (which some are projecting as his Combine weight) will not make up for his rather relatively slight frame. He had already gained ~11 pounds in the past 2 years to get to 194 pounds. If he does get to 200 pounds, will it have any effect on his mobility? Will he even be able to maintain that weight? And will he maintain any semblance of durability with the weekly big boys in the NFL. Will his college skill set translate well to the NFL?

Young has been essentially only a 2 year college player. The concern has to be especially emphasized by how Kyler Murray, who is of comparable size at 5-10, 207 pounds, has missed 9 games and played hurt for the past two seasons. No one is speaking of Young's injury history at all.........apparently blowing it off as insignificant. Four A/C joint and one rotator cuff injury, even though grade I and II, is not insignificant in a 2-year history. Maybe Young can join Tua in his Judo classes.

I retain too many questions regarding Young to even take him at 1:2, let alone to consider trading up for him (especially for the King's ransom that it likely will take).
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Biggest thing i question, besides the ability to hold up through an NFL > playoffs, is whether Young's skill set will translate into becoming a premium NFL quarterback. I think he's got a high floor if he can stay healthy; but will he become more than 'mid'? Not a place this organization wants to be. Certain limitations of arm and size may prevent his from being a big upside guy. And as you point out, if he gets to 210 lb playing weight, he may lose some of that quick-twitch out pf structure maneuverability that made him special in college.
 
TexansFan15 said:
I as a fan would be livid if that deal was made. NC navigated the DW trade well. Let’s not blow all the capital by trading up 1 spot.

If we do trade up to 1, then it better just be a ‘24 2nd rounder and that’s it. Maybe throw in Cooks as part of the deal.
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I'm thinking 1-2/ 2-32 and a 2024 2nd.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The more I think about it, the more I question many of the mock drafters, talking heads and expert evaluators re. the Bryce Young train. Too many things going through my head. His height.........quibble over 1/2 inch one way or the other...........he is still short. Gaining weight to even 200 lbs (which some are projecting as his Combine weight) will not make up for his rather relatively slight frame. He had already gained ~11 pounds in the past 2 years to get to 194 pounds. If he does get to 200 pounds, will it have any effect on his mobility? Will he even be able to maintain that weight? And will he maintain any semblance of durability with the weekly big boys in the NFL. Will his college skill set translate well to the NFL?

Young has been essentially only a 2 year college player. The concern has to be especially emphasized by how Kyler Murray, who is of comparable size at 5-10, 207 pounds, has missed 9 games and played hurt for the past two seasons. No one is speaking of Young's injury history at all.........apparently blowing it off as insignificant. Four A/C joint and one rotator cuff injury, even though grade I and II, is not insignificant in a 2-year history. Maybe Young can join Tua in his Judo classes.

I retain too many questions regarding Young to even take him at 1:2, let alone to consider trading up for him (especially for the King's ransom that it likely will take).
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Mods, can you please delete this post detailing injury red flags? The Texans tend to treat things like this as green lights and i’d hate to see Caserio make an OB trade up to lock in 1 after reading CND’s post!
 
Texansphan said:
We could easily beat other offers - I just hope they don't.
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We'd look pretty damn silly offering two 1st round pick + 2nd and more - or even three 1st round picks to match potential offers of other teams vying for Qbs with lower leverage. I just don't see that happening... I only see the offer stated by @steelbtexan (1-2/ 2-32 and a 2024 2nd) if Chicago doesn't receive any trade up offers from anyone else. Possible, but not likely. Too many teams are looking QB this year.

Edit: I guess if we can somehow convince Chicago to take Cooks, maybe the Texans' offer could become more competitive. Do the Bears want Cooks though? They already have a similar player in Mooney and Cooks is overpaid, will be 30 in September and doesn't fit the MO of a deep rebuilding team. He's quit on a team and is probably in decline. Call me skeptical... Any trade up I would definitely want to use Cooks as bait if possible.
 
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Texian said:
I have always thought that the teams who do best at rebuilding are those teams who rebuild from the inside out and once they have their trenches in place then it's time to add the skill players.
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define skill. Skill can be any position. god given talent another. Prototypical size, speed, strength and intelligence.

ideally haul in trenchers in mid-late round picks. All you need is one leader for each positional group. Does require keen scouting to identify skill set-fit that will be developed by superb positional coaching. Both of which have been lacking here, in large part because of continuity @ the top.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Also what is the infatuation with Will Levis? 23 interceptions in his last 24 games.
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His completion percentage last season (65.4) was actually higher than Young’s (64.5). His play-action passing maybe fit well with a team productive in running the ball (Pierce). Texans can and should improve the offensive line and do more play action. He completed 68.5% of attempts with 9.7 air yards per attempt in play-action situations last season.
I'm not infatuated just sharing some stats.
 
TexanBorn51 said:
His completion percentage last season (65.4) was actually higher than Young’s (64.5). His play-action passing maybe fit well with a team productive in running the ball (Pierce). Texans can and should improve the offensive line and do more play action. He completed 68.5% of attempts with 9.7 air yards per attempt in play-action situations last season.
I'm not infatuated just sharing some stats.
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He also turns the ball over. A lot and in college. Just keep Mills if Levis is an option.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Also what is the infatuation with Will Levis? 23 interceptions in his last 24 games.
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Every coach think they can turn someone like Richardson and Levis into Josh Allen with coaching. It happens alot, but it fails alot also. Even though Elway was rated as a can't miss prospect coming out, people questioned if he had touch. He didn't really gain touch until later in his career. Evaluators are always banking on upside when it comes to qb's.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
He also turns the ball over. A lot and in college. Just keep Mills if Levis is an option.
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It is also hard to fully evaluate Levis's 2022 season as he got hurt.
Levis and RIchardson interception ratio is basically the same.
I thought he transferred to Kentucky from Conn and there he was just a goal line runner until 2021. So now we only have 2 years there to compare where he elavated his skills.
So fairly the top QBs are Young Stroud Levis Richardson Hooker on down. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and will either improve in the future or just another fade away. But hey they are the top QBs favored for top draft picks no?
 
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