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2021 OLine

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So…. The Packers have 150+ yards rushing (4.9 ypc) against the Cardinals defense. The Pack Oline ain’t all that.
the Texans couldn’t do crap against this defense .
Coaching or personnel?
Yes

And no 68 yr old JJ Watt
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Maybe it's to early to call it ,but I can't help thinking Tytus Howard is a bust.

Not athletic or technically sound enough to be a tackle in the pros. Not mean or powerful enough to be a rg (think strong side run game bruiser.) Not cerebral enough to be center.

Left guard is the equivalent of a left fielder in baseball. Basically, the least important ol spot. And not only is he JUST a left guard, he's a left guard on one of the weakest ol's in the league. That should say a lot.

I genuinely believe guys don't normally get drafted in the 1st round unless they're athletic freaks. Even the reaches are immensely talented. (And I'm sure having said that, some dumbazz poster will make a case for player x who is a complete 1 in 600 outlier. Let's hear it...) But he's JUST a LG.

I know our coaching is questionable (or more appropriately, it sucks.) I know they stunted his growth by making him learn multiple positions ,but I expected a lot more.

If he's lucky, he'll get one more chance at a better ol coach and more talent around him. More then likely though...

He's just a busted pick.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Maybe it's to early to call it ,but I can't help thinking Tytus Howard is a bust.

Not athletic or technically sound enough to be a tackle in the pros. Not mean or powerful enough to be a rg (think strong side run game bruiser.) Not cerebral enough to be center.

Left guard is the equivalent of a left fielder in baseball. Basically, the least important ol spot. And not only is he JUST a left guard, he's a left guard on one of the weakest ol's in the league. That should say a lot.

I genuinely believe guys don't normally get drafted in the 1st round unless they're athletic freaks. Even the reaches are immensely talented. (And I'm sure having said that, some dumbazz poster will make a case for player x who is a complete 1 in 600 outlier. Let's hear it...) But he's JUST a LG.

I know our coaching is questionable (or more appropriately, it sucks.) I know they stunted his growth by making him learn multiple positions ,but I expected a lot more.

If he's lucky, he'll get one more chance at a better ol coach and more talent around him. More then likely though...

He's just a busted pick.
Sounds like Sua-Filo but he was a few picks later
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Maybe it's to early to call it ,but I can't help thinking Tytus Howard is a bust.

Not athletic or technically sound enough to be a tackle in the pros. Not mean or powerful enough to be a rg (think strong side run game bruiser.) Not cerebral enough to be center.

Left guard is the equivalent of a left fielder in baseball. Basically, the least important ol spot. And not only is he JUST a left guard, he's a left guard on one of the weakest ol's in the league. That should say a lot.

I genuinely believe guys don't normally get drafted in the 1st round unless they're athletic freaks. Even the reaches are immensely talented. (And I'm sure having said that, some dumbazz poster will make a case for player x who is a complete 1 in 600 outlier. Let's hear it...) But he's JUST a LG.

I know our coaching is questionable (or more appropriately, it sucks.) I know they stunted his growth by making him learn multiple positions ,but I expected a lot more.

If he's lucky, he'll get one more chance at a better ol coach and more talent around him. More then likely though...

He's just a busted pick.
His 3rd OL coach is going to make him worth a 1st rd pick.

LMAO, Dude is like the 2nd worst OG in the NFL bad according to PFF. Somebody on 610 said this and even if I disagree with PFF often how much better can be 10th worst in the league.

Busty
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
The Texans have primarily whiffed at selecting OL during the draft. This oh so consistent misses in the draft is to be owned by the Scouting Dept and/or the GM’s who are inevitably the one’s pulling the trigger in the War Room. It’s been pitiful and a surprise stench this organization just couldn’t seem to shake.

Caserio is the new guy driving the team and contrary to some, I think he did handle his first handicapped (thank you OB) Texans draft just fine….enough so that I’m looking forward to his first “full” draft, this is when I’ll judge his performance.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Appearing in this morning's Chronicle, by their new writer Brooks Kubena,
is a revealing statement on the Texans, both the coaching staff and the offensive line.

Here are two paragraphs which hit at the heart of the Texans' problems:

...A merciful open week gave the Texans time to self-evaluate. The coaching staff identified plays, schemes and game plans that they erroneously thought they'd be able to accomplish, which failed in part because they overestimated the capabilities of a limited unit...So, there's somewhat of a simplification going on in Houston's game plan meetings. They're coming to terms with their limitations. They must design strategies that are based in what they know their players can accomplish...
This is taken from this morning's hard copy. The complete commentary is behind the Chronicle's paywall.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
The Texans have primarily whiffed at selecting OL during the draft. This oh so consistent misses in the draft is to be owned by the Scouting Dept and/or the GM’s who are inevitably the one’s pulling the trigger in the War Room. It’s been pitiful and a surprise stench this organization just couldn’t seem to shake.

Caserio is the new guy driving the team and contrary to some, I think he did handle his first handicapped (thank you OB) Texans draft just fine….enough so that I’m looking forward to his first “full” draft, this is when I’ll judge his performance.
It is very difficult to select people to play OL in this league when the scheme is a mess. There is no reference point of prospect measurements/skillset displayed on tape when the scheme is an uncoachable undefined mess of an offense. I suppose the only defined quality for OL on this team since Kubiak left is “the ability to be a matador to opposing defenses”.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It is very difficult to select people to play OL in this league when the scheme is a mess. There is no reference point of prospect measurements/skillset displayed on tape when the scheme is an uncoachable undefined mess of an offense. I suppose the only defined quality for OL on this team since Kubiak left is “the ability to be a matador to opposing defenses”.
Agreed,

But you're looking at 2 different hc's and 2 different ol coaches.

So while I agree the scheme is an issue. Talent is a bigger issue.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
I feel like that's a great comparison.
Sua-Filo was drafted as a RG to play RG. He became immediate starter on excellent Cowboys offensive line, which answers question, “it’s the coaching stupid” not the talent. Tytus Howard was far more the reach because he lacked reps against high level competition, wasn’t dominant but did flash tackle traits. Should have started RT and stayed @ RT then at least corners would be set. Not on him, coaching.

actually haven’t seen good coaching here since early Kubiak years. Would love to have back OC Shanahan. He understands value of the offensive line, like Dallas they have depth to offset injury, most teams like Texans and Chargers can’t quite field even a good starting 5. You have to double down in the draft and free agency as long as it takes to have a dominant OL.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Of course all of this is past tense. The current GM and coaching staff have had only one abreviated draft to begin putting in place their foundational players. One point of this season is the assessment of those players inherited. At this point there is no reason to believe that defenciencies won't be addressed starting with the next draft and offseason of free agent signings.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Agreed,

But you're looking at 2 different hc's and 2 different ol coaches.

So while I agree the scheme is an issue. Talent is a bigger issue.
Took me awhile to write my post then you snuck in ahead of me with this ^

you hit it with your first sentence and 2nd sentence but the third can be broken down a bit more to say, did they invest in the OL? Clearly that’s a yes, but can they evaluate a grade that matches value? Clearly that’s a no. Partly because what you originally said about coaching turnover. Haven’t seen Caserio invest much so far in OL or have any idea how accurate his graded values will be going forward. But can say this, his first draft were what I call flyers based of traits, like he has luxury and no time limitations instead of drafting lower ceiling but functional prospects. Patriots bread and butter has always been those functional, well coached, lunch pale prospects with just a few elite players thrown on top who they use much as they can before they trade them away all the while building a deeper with more continuity roster.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Sua-Filo was drafted as a RG to play RG. He became immediate starter on excellent Cowboys offensive line, which answers question, “it’s the coaching stupid” not the talent. Tytus Howard was far more the reach because he lacked reps against high level competition, wasn’t dominant but did flash tackle traits. Should have started RT and stayed @ RT then at least corners would be set. Not on him, coaching.

actually haven’t seen good coaching here since early Kubiak years. Would love to have back OC Shanahan. He understands value of the offensive line, like Dallas they have depth to offset injury, most teams like Texans and Chargers can’t quite field even a good starting 5. You have to double down in the draft and free agency as long as it takes to have a dominant OL.
XSF was a fill in when guys were injured. Doesn't matter where you put Howard. He's going to suck.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
XSF was a fill in when guys were injured. Doesn't matter where you put Howard. He's going to suck.
XSF Should have easily been the Texans starting RG for Texans period. Howard was mishandled period, but should never been selected in the first round. Both should never been taken by this franchise when and where they did, but fact is they spent significant draft capital on the OL, they just have no idea what they’re doing.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
XSF Should have easily been the Texans starting RG for Texans period. Howard was mishandled period, but should never been selected in the first round. Both should never been taken by this franchise when and where they did, but fact is they spent significant draft capital on the OL, they just have no idea what they’re doing.
You're talking OB and Devlin. Thankfully they are both gone
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
You're talking OB and Devlin. Thankfully they are both gone
2014 oh how I hated that class except for CJ and Hall.
2019 the end of era, Cal just didn’t know and let OB continue his butchery of roster.
The Texans hired the Chargers OL coach James Campen, not much to work with but last in the league 2020, gives me little hope.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
But I dunno has Campen been the upgrade at OLine coaching that was expected, and if not maybe it wasn't Devlin but rather as many suspected, just a short fall of talent in the O-line all along ?
Olineman not coming out of college NFL ready near as much. They have to be coached up... Most all early picks look like busts their first couple of years. See Jake Matthews, Eric Fisher and many others
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Olineman not coming out of college NFL ready near as much. They have to be coached up... Most all early picks look like busts their first couple of years. See Jake Matthews, Eric Fisher and many others
Good news is interior OL seem to develop quicker than OT's.

Hopefully Caserio can find a couple of Onwenu's late in the draft like they did in Foxboro.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Olineman not coming out of college NFL ready near as much. They have to be coached up... Most all early picks look like busts their first couple of years. See Jake Matthews, Eric Fisher and many others
So I dunno are you saying it's too soon to give up on Howard & Scharping as legit long-term NFL starting Olinemen ? If so man I hope you are right !
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So I dunno are you saying it's too soon to give up on Howard & Scharping as legit long-term NFL starting Olinemen ? If so man I hope you are right !
Not what I was saying, I don't think that pair will ever be more than backups. I was commenting on the difficulty in selecting Olineman
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Olineman not coming out of college NFL ready near as much. They have to be coached up...
I don't know if I can agree with that. 23 rookie offensive linemen have started at least one game this year. There were 8 O-linemen taken in the 3rd round after Davis Mills. 5 of them have started. There's a good chance that had Caserio taken an O-lineman rather than a QB, that pick would be starting today.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I don't know if I can agree with that. 23 rookie offensive linemen have started at least one game this year. There were 8 O-linemen taken in the 3rd round after Davis Mills. 5 of them have started. There's a good chance that had Caserio taken an O-lineman rather than a QB, that pick would be starting today.
I think Mills may still wind up being a RD3 bargain. OL and defense will be there for the taking in the Texans projected slot and the potential slots they gain when Watson is traded.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Not what I was saying, I don't think that pair will ever be more than backups. I was commenting on the difficulty in selecting Olineman
See I think that is also the sentiments of most others on our board. If true that is so disapointing - first round pick top pick in that draft for the texans ends up being back-up material. Yikes, we all need to hope and maybe prey that casserio can do much better than that !
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The offensive line was looking decent in the first couple of games. Then the injury bug struck and struck hard. Howard was actually playing ok next to
Tunsil.
Yeah they still stunk in run pro, but we can equate that with running backs with poor vision.
 
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Number19

Hall of Fame
It's a bit old, but here is one link that was behind my posting, a week or so back, that college offensive linemen are not NFL ready.
Here's another.
And another talking about the issue.
Here's a report listing the colleges which do the best job of producing NFL ready OL'men.
Here's one discussing the problem with evaluating college offensive linemen.
And one more.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The offensive line was looking decent in the first couple of games. Then the injury bug struck and struck hard. Howard was actually playing ok next to
Tunsil.
Yeah the still stunk in run pro, but we can equate that with running backs with poor vision.
Ingram's vision seems to have improved running behind the Saints ol.
 


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