Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

ArlingtonTexan said:
There were 114 players in the league who caught at least 40 catches last year. On average that is around 3.5 players per team. Even if Hopkins winds up as the Texans 4th option he should be 50/50 at worst to clear 40 reception.

the Texans force the ball the Andre Johnson because the rest of the WRs, were not good WRs (when walter was his better version of himself he was 60 catch guy) As good as he is, Johnson could easily take one less catch per game still have 100 catches probably being more efficient/effective.

If you force me I will list some the unimpressive WRs in bad passing games with way worse QBs who caught 40 balls. That is not a standard of anything significant.
Click to expand...

You really don't need to because - seriously - we have gone over this.

Teams are not alike in their make-up and their offensive philosophy.

Bad teams, for example, find themselves behind the eight-ball very often, and are forced to open up their passing game.

Some teams run a spread with more emphasis on their receivers than TEs, FB (some don't even have a FB) and RBs.

There are several reasons why things happened, and they vary for different teams.

But the Texans are not one of those teams.

It is possible that the defense might allow Kubiak to target Hopkins more, but it's not a given.

Look at Ashley Lelie, who was drafted at #19 overall by the Broncos in 2002.
He had 35 catches as a rookie and 37 in his second year, and the dude was 6'3.
 
76Texan said:
You really don't need to because - seriously - we have gone over this.

Teams are not alike in their make-up and their offensive philosophy.

Bad teams, for example, find themselves behind the eight-ball very often, and are forced to open up their passing game.

Some teams run a spread with more emphasis on their receivers than TEs, FB (some don't even have a FB) and RBs.

There are several reasons why things happened, and they vary for different teams.

But the Texans are not one of those teams.

It is possible that the defense might allow Kubiak to target Hopkins more, but it's not a given.

Look at Ashley Lelie, who was drafted at #19 overall by the Broncos in 2002.
He had 35 catches as a rookie and 37 in his second year, and the dude was 6'3.
Click to expand...

The Texans passing game did not work against good football teams, so they need something more than some replacement level 40 catches from the "other" guy. lestar jean can drop 40 passes with enough snaps. This is not a Texans offense works this way thing, this is a Texans offense did not work when it mattered thing. I don't need screen shots and watching games 8 times to tell me the obvious. The obvious is that 40 catches from your number 2 WR does not work in the current NFL (Ashlie L...really).
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/standings

Jacoby jones did exactly what you said as a Texans at least catch, stretching the defense and people could not wait to run him out of town.

and undersized TE describes Walter.
Click to expand...

I've said time & time again if I had to choose between Walter & Jacoby, I'm going with Jacoby. The Texans chose to go with Watler & we got what we did in 2012.. still a respectable offense, but I blame our quantity over quality run game squarely on that decision.

Jacoby was as good a blocker as KDub, but Jacoby was blocking 40 yards down field.
 
thunderkyss said:
I've said time & time again if I had to choose between Walter & Jacoby, I'm going with Jacoby. The Texans chose to go with Watler & we got what we did in 2012.. still a respectable offense, but I blame our quantity over quality run game squarely on that decision.

Jacoby was as good a blocker as KDub, but Jacoby was blocking 40 yards down field.
Click to expand...

TK, there is something to this post ...like it.
 
thunderkyss said:
I've said time & time again if I had to choose between Walter & Jacoby, I'm going with Jacoby. The Texans chose to go with Watler & we got what we did in 2012.. still a respectable offense, but I blame our quantity over quality run game squarely on that decision.

Jacoby was as good a blocker as KDub, but Jacoby was blocking 40 yards down field.
Click to expand...

TK, there is something to this post ...like it.
 
2006 Eric Moulds 57 rec.
2007 Kevin Walter 65 rec.
2008 Kevin Walter 60 rec.
2009 Kevin Walter 53 rec.
2010 Kevin Walter & Jacoby Jones 51 rec. each
2011 Kevin Walter 39 rec.- without Schaub for a third of the season.
2012 Kevin Walter 41 rec.

Not seeing where Kubiak's system keeps WRs not named AJ below 40 rec.

Also I think it is more than a little absurd to think they drafted Hopkins and are going to turn around and treat him just like Walter.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The Texans passing game did not work against good football teams, so they need something more than some replacement level 40 catches from the "other" guy. lestar jean can drop 40 passes with enough snaps. This is not a Texans offense works this way thing, this is a Texans offense did not work when it mattered thing. I don't need screen shots and watching games 8 times to tell me the obvious. The obvious is that 40 catches from your number 2 WR does not work in the current NFL (Ashlie L...really).
Click to expand...

It worked just fine against Denver, Baltimore, and Cincinnati.

That being said, upgrading is necessary. Part of the 2nd guy issue is all the throws to the tight ends. Owen Daniels had 60 catches last year, and Garrett Graham had another 28. Daniels is certainly the 2nd best pass catcher the Texans have had. There's a good chance that changes this year, due to both Owen being a little older (lowest y/r since his rookie year) and Hopkins being that good.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
So you missed the last month of the NFL season and a couple weeks of the playoffs save one game?
Click to expand...

Ah, so what you really meant was "the last month of the season and one of the two playoff games" as opposed to "against good teams."

My bad.

In which case, I'd say that the right side of the line has more experience and is healthier and Hopkins/ healthy Graham/Daniels > Daniels/Walter/injured Graham.
 
infantrycak said:
2006 Eric Moulds 57 rec.
2007 Kevin Walter 65 rec.
2008 Kevin Walter 60 rec.
2009 Kevin Walter 53 rec.
2010 Kevin Walter & Jacoby Jones 51 rec. each
2011 Kevin Walter 39 rec.- without Schaub for a third of the season.
2012 Kevin Walter 41 rec.

Not seeing where Kubiak's system keeps WRs not named AJ below 40 rec.

Also I think it is more than a little absurd to think they drafted Hopkins and are going to turn around and treat him just like Walter.
Click to expand...

Were these guys rookies?
 
DeAndre Hopkins is 73" HT; 33.08" arms; 10.08" hands, 36" vertical jump

Hopkins size gives him distinct advantage over all DBs. However the dinks & dunks, quick out, quick slant over the middle neutralize much of D's advantages against defensive backs and makes Hokins much less effective. In order for DeAndre to be at his best and to take advantage of DB's he must play in space.
 
76Texan said:
So it did happen.
It is possible for a first round draft pick not to have too many catches in Kubiak's system.
It's not just a possibility; it's a fact.
Click to expand...

The difference with LeLee(sp) & Hopkins is that LeLee was a one trick pony. Go routes & that's about it, & his hands were questionable.

Hopkins isn't a burner, so where Ashley only got thrown to on quick slants & go routes, Hop is going to get more targets on all kinds of other routes.

That said, the thing that makes me think he won't come close to KDub's receptions, is that Schaub is pretty conservative. Instead of risking a bad throw at a guy he don't trust, he'll toss it in the stands, or move to his next read.

If there was someone within 5 yards of Jacoby, Matt wasn't throwing him the ball. I don't know what his comfort zone is going to be with DeAndre, but I doubt it's going to be as tight as what he had with Walter... Walter could have a guy drapped on him & Matt would still throw the ball at him.

So we'll see.
 
Texian said:
DeAndre Hopkins is 73" HT; 33.08" arms; 10.08" hands, 36" vertical jump

Hopkins size gives him distinct advantage over all DBs. However the dinks & dunks, quick out, quick slant over the middle neutralize much of D's advantages against defensive backs and makes Hokins much less effective. In order for DeAndre to be at his best and to take advantage of DB's he must play in space.
Click to expand...

What?

It's hard reading some of these posts sometimes, I swear.
 
TexansSeminole said:
What?

It's hard reading some of these posts sometimes, I swear.
Click to expand...

I think what he's saying, is that Hopkins isn't going to run past anyone. He's going to catch the ball, but so did KDub, without Hopkins' advantages. But he's going to have to catch the ball in space to take advantage of his play making ability.

I don't necessarily agree with that. But that's what he's saying.



I think.
 
I just say that is way more important to see how HC Kubiak WRs number 2 have performed with the Texans than how OC Kubiak used a bust 1st round pick 10-12 years ago...see this thread in January.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I just say that is way more important to see how HC Kubiak WRs number 2 have performed with the Texans than how OC Kubiak used a bust 1st round pick 10-12 years ago...see this thread in January.
Click to expand...
I'm not convinced that Kubes knows what to do with a legit #2 WR. His version of the WCO seems to revolve around a #1 WR, TE, RB progression with a #2 WR being 4th, at best, on the list. Hopefully, having a legit #2 WR will expand his play calling to where AJ will be a decoy on more plays and allow the #2 (whether it's DH or KM) to make more plays to keep the D guessing. That should only help to serve the Texans and individual stats.
 
DocBar said:
I'm not convinced that Kubes knows what to do with a legit #2 WR. His version of the WCO seems to revolve around a #1 WR, TE, RB progression with a #2 WR being 4th, at best, on the list. Hopefully, having a legit #2 WR will expand his play calling to where AJ will be a decoy on more plays and allow the #2 (whether it's DH or KM) to make more plays to keep the D guessing. That should only help to serve the Texans and individual stats.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the make-up of the team in a given year.

First off, when the Broncos won their two SBs with Elway,
they had a balanced attack, but not a lot of depth at receiver in one year, so Ed McCaffey had 45 catches on year and 64 the next.

But he also had 4 great years for them as a 6'5 target, with 64, 69, 71, and 101 catches.
The year he had 100 catches, R White had 101.

So, it looks like he goes with the flow, depending on the players he has on the roster.
 
76Texan said:
I think it depends on the make-up of the team in a given year.

First off, when the Broncos won their two SBs with Elway,
they had a balanced attack, but not a lot of depth at receiver in one year, so Ed McCaffey had 45 catches on year and 64 the next.

But he also had 4 great years for them as a 6'5 target, with 64, 69, 71, and 101 catches.
The year he had 100 catches, R White had 101.

So, it looks like he goes with the flow, depending on the players he has on the roster.
Click to expand...
MSR. My concern is that it's been too many years since he had a legit #2 and has gotten stuck in his ways. Only time will tell, I guess. Good points, though. Thanks for the info.
 
DocBar said:
MSR. My concern is that it's been too many years since he had a legit #2 and has gotten stuck in his ways. Only time will tell, I guess. Good points, though. Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...

I don't think our offense starts with Andre as the #1 option every time. Depending on who's where & what the defense is doing, Andre may be the first read, OD the second, Arian the third. On others, KDub may have been the first.

But I think there were so few matchups or situations he could count on Walter to beat, that Schaub forced the ball to Aj or OD a lot.

With DeAndre, hopefully he'll see more of those options & he won't check to the draw on 3rd & long nearly as often.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think our offense starts with Andre as the #1 option every time. Depending on who's where & what the defense is doing, Andre may be the first read, OD the second, Arian the third. On others, KDub may have been the first.

But I think there were so few matchups or situations he could count on Walter to beat, that Schaub forced the ball to Aj or OD a lot.

With DeAndre, hopefully he'll see more of those options & he won't check to the draw on 3rd & long nearly as often.
Click to expand...
It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how the season unfolds with the talented young WR corp we have behind AJ.
 
76Texan said:
I think it depends on the make-up of the team in a given year.

First off, when the Broncos won their two SBs with Elway,
they had a balanced attack, but not a lot of depth at receiver in one year, so Ed McCaffey had 45 catches on year and 64 the next.

But he also had 4 great years for them as a 6'5 target, with 64, 69, 71, and 101 catches.
The year he had 100 catches, R White had 101.

So, it looks like he goes with the flow, depending on the players he has on the roster.
Click to expand...

Just to pile on with this, McCaffery had multiple 1000 yard seasons. And here's the kicker, Rod Smith had 1000 yards many of those same seasons.

A true #2 can flourish in this offense... along with a great TE.

With Kubiak as the OC, that Denver offense was top 10 in both points and yards 8 out of 11 years and only out of the top 10 in points ONE season.

I think Kubiak has been patching this offense together from scraps giving all the talent picks in the draft to the Defense trying to prop up a string of bad coordinators. Now he's finally been able to draft a weapon for his offense.

I'm expecting big things.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I think Kubiak has been patching this offense together from scraps giving all the talent picks in the draft to the Defense trying to prop up a string of bad coordinators. Now he's finally been able to draft a weapon for his offense.

I'm expecting big things.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
TexansSeminole said:
What?

It's hard reading some of these posts sometimes, I swear.
Click to expand...

thunderkyss said:
I think what he's saying, is that Hopkins isn't going to run past anyone. He's going to catch the ball, but so did KDub, without Hopkins' advantages. But he's going to have to catch the ball in space to take advantage of his play making ability.

I don't necessarily agree with that. But that's what he's saying.



I think.
Click to expand...

Hopkins is 73" in height, that is taller than almost all DBs = advantage in height. Hopkins has 33" arms and that is almost 2" inches longer than most DBs = advantage in reach. Hopkins has 10" hands = advantage to catch the ball. Hopkins has a 36" vertical leap, plus his height, plus his reach = a distinct advantage when he is in position to use his superiors and that is when he has the opportunity to separate from the DB.

However if Nuk's route assignments are dinks, dunks, quick slant or out (Kubiak's short passing game) that allows the DB to give DeAndre Hopkins a Prostrate Exam while at the same time defending against the pass, Nuk is not going to be nearly as effective and closer to average and mundane. I think you will find that Nuk will be much more successful on 10-12yd PLUS routes. I hope I did a better job this time at explaining my thoughts.
 
Texian said:
Hopkins is 73" in height, that is taller than almost all DBs = advantage in height. Hopkins has 33" arms and that is almost 2" inches longer than most DBs = advantage in reach. Hopkins has 10" hands = advantage to catch the ball. Hopkins has a 36" vertical leap, plus his height, plus his reach = a distinct advantage when he is in position to use his superiors and that is when he has the opportunity to separate from the DB.

However if Nuk's route assignments are dinks, dunks, quick slant or out (Kubiak's short passing game) that allows the DB to give DeAndre Hopkins a Prostrate Exam while at the same time defending against the pass, Nuk is not going to be nearly as effective and closer to average and mundane. I think you will find that Nuk will be much more successful on 10-12yd PLUS routes. I hope I did a better job this time at explaining my thoughts.
Click to expand...

I'm still not sure what you've been trying to say, not for a lack of trying.
My opinion is that Hopkins will see plenty of under a
 
I didn't see this posted anywhere and thought it deserved some discussion...

(on following up on the last game performance) “If I graded myself, I’d give myself a D honestly. I’ve got a lot I can improve on and I can come back and do a lot better than I did.”
Click to expand...

8/15 Quotes on HT.com

:clap:

I love this. This is the right attitude. Sounds like he's getting a strong dose of AJ and not letting things go to his head.

Hope he's not just blowing smoke...
 
Our offense isn't really dink and dunk. Yeah we throw some short passes, but we stretch the field plenty.
 
Texans' Hopkins content to do his talking on the field

By Brian T. Smith/chron.com


"That's why I don't like doing interviews, honestly, right now," Hopkins said. "Because I haven't done anything on the field yet. I've got a lot of work to do. I don't want to talk myself up or anything."
...

Hopkins' grade on his debut: D. His take: "One preseason game."
...

"I really don't have any personal goals besides rookie of the year, which I would expect all rookies to have," Hopkins said. "Being on this team and knowing that they haven't got a championship, I just want to come in and contribute to be part of that."
...

"I don't think he's trying to be Andre Johnson," RickSmith said. "I think he's trying to be DeAndre Hopkins in a way that's authentic but shares similar characteristics with some of the things that make Andre great."
...

"All this is about the team," Hopkins said. "None of this is about me."
...

"This team is a lot of guys who just go out and work and don't do a lot of talking off the field," Hopkins said. "It just grows on you, how these guys are."
Click to expand...

Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
#Texans' DeAndre Hopkins on who's joined him in #Houston from South Carolina: "Nobody. This team is my family." #NFL

Chris Carter was DeAndre Hopkins' favorite wide receiver when he was growing up. Partly because of stats. Also because Carter played 16 years
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I posted this during the game in response to a question about risk of subsequent concussions following a previous concussion. I was asked to re-post the information so that people could "hang their hat" on trying to sort out such a situation.

CloakNNNdagger said:
Research suggests that if someone has already received one concussion, they are 1-2 times more likely to receive a second one. If they've had two concussions, then a third is 2-4 times more likely, and if they've had three concussions, then they are 3-9 times more likely to receive their fourth concussion.
Click to expand...
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I posted this during the game in response to a question about risk of subsequent concussions following a previous concussion. I was asked to re-post the information so that people could "hang their hat" on trying to sort out such a situation.
Click to expand...

Man, I can't believe Montana was able to play all those years.
Do you know whether all those concussions had started to show some kind of an effect on him?
 
76Texan said:
Man, I can't believe Montana was able to play all those years.
Do you know whether all those concussions had started to show some kind of an effect on him?
Click to expand...

Montana had 8 documented concussions. I've heard him speak of its life after football after effects. It only included head aches, minor visual difficulties and minor balance problems.......pretty minor after effects if that is all.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Montana had 8 documented concussions. I've heard him speak of its life after football after effects. It only included head aches, minor visual difficulties and minor balance problems.......pretty minor after effects if that is all.
Click to expand...

I believed the Niners let him go even though Montana still wanted to play due to this reason?
Montana decided to keep playing and signed with the Chiefs right?
Do you think any team would have signed Montana in the present time?
I'm not sure his wife nor his agent would want him to continue playing knowing what we know today, would you agree?
 
76Texan said:
I believed the Niners let him go even though Montana still wanted to play due to this reason?
Montana decided to keep playing and signed with the Chiefs right?
Do you think any team would have signed Montana in the present time?
I'm not sure his wife nor his agent would want him to continue playing knowing what we know today, would you agree?
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree! I believe that even though Aikman was said to have many more, 8 is also the documented number. Aikman chose to retire after considering 2 factors.........back problems.........and number of concussions..........and that was before all the info was released re. concussions. Today, we will still see "informed" players, including QBs case the glory and the money despite the potential life-changing risk. In a 2011 piece I came across, Aikman to date states that he is not experiencing any sequellae from his concussions.....yet. Sort of interesting that Aikman pretty much has stayed neutral on the subject concerning today's players.
 
Hopkins was reported today as not having gotten out of "Phase I" of the Concussion Return to Play Protocol. Many of you may not be familiar with what these phases signify.

In brief, a player needs to complete five phases of exercise and recovery before taking the field. The phases consist of increasing levels of exertion:

I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

II.Performing light physical activity (e.g., walking) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

III.Performing sport-specific activities (e.g., running) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

IV.Participating in non-contact practice (e.g., sprinting, passing the ball, also weight lifting) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

V.Participating in full-contact practice without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

If symptoms recur, the player must rest for 24 hours before resuming the process one step lower than when symptoms returned.

The report on Hopkins then fundamentally tells us that at rest, he is still exhibiting signs and/or symptoms of the concussion he sustained last Saturday.
 
18 days to be cleared before Week 1. I think right now its best to keep him in Stage 1 and allow him to feel 100 percent like himself before he even thinks about stepping back on a practice field. There's no need to rush it at all. The Texans probably feel the same way.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Hopkins was reported today as not having gotten out of "Phase I" of the Concussion Return to Play Protocol. Many of you may not be familiar with what these phases signify.

In brief, a player needs to complete five phases of exercise and recovery before taking the field. The phases consist of increasing levels of exertion:

I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

II.Performing light physical activity (e.g., walking) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

III.Performing sport-specific activities (e.g., running) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

IV.Participating in non-contact practice (e.g., sprinting, passing the ball, also weight lifting) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

V.Participating in full-contact practice without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

If symptoms recur, the player must rest for 24 hours before resuming the process one step lower than when symptoms returned.

The report on Hopkins then fundamentally tells us that at rest, he is still exhibiting signs and/or symptoms of the concussion he sustained last Saturday.
Click to expand...
Is this a screwed up way to make the pick of AJ more appealing?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Hopkins was reported today as not having gotten out of "Phase I" of the Concussion Return to Play Protocol. Many of you may not be familiar with what these phases signify.

In brief, a player needs to complete five phases of exercise and recovery before taking the field. The phases consist of increasing levels of exertion:

I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

The report on Hopkins then fundamentally tells us that at rest, he is still exhibiting signs and/or symptoms of the concussion he sustained last Saturday.
Click to expand...

So what symptoms are we talking about? Are these symptoms he can easily hide, or is there some kind of objective measurement of them?
 
TexansSeminole said:
Well, his spot is locked down. He is the #2, so he has no reason to try to get back on the field for a preseason game.
Click to expand...

True but this being the PS game that's played closer to regular season games as far a time on the field for the 1's. It would have also helped Nuk get as close to "real bullet" practice as well as sharpening his timing with Matt being able to develop more on the field trust in him.

Just my way of thinking.
 
As I previously posted before. This is not Hopkins' first concussion. Most are not aware that he sustained a concussion during an auto accident the end of 2011, just before the Orange Bowl. The handful of media that did report it, reported it as a "mild" concussion. They should have done a better job of investigating the incident. Despite the fact that he was allowed to play in the Bowl game within a week of the injury and did well, he did NOT sustain a "minor" concussion...........he sustained full loss of consciousness. Here is the eye witness account by his own receivers coach, Jeff Scott.

Jeff Scott remembers the morning of Dec. 27, 2011 well.

All too well.

Scott, along with his wife Sara, was heading to Memorial Stadium to meet up with the rest of team. They were going to meet, pack up the buses, and head on the road to the 2012 Orange Bowl in Miami to face West Virginia.

That’s when the Clemson wide receivers coach saw a car crashed on the side of the highway.

That car belonged to then-sophomore receiver DeAndre Hopkins.

Scott and his wife were on a frontage road when they recognized the car to be Hopkins’ and they “got around there pretty quick” to arrive on the scene.

Scott got out of his car and braced himself for the worst possible news. After all, he didn’t know the severity of the accident. He didn’t know if Hopkins was hurt, or even worse, dead.

“When we got out of the car, the police detective was walking up to the car and it was one of those moments you don’t know what he’s about to tell you,” Scott said during a phone interview on Friday afternoon. “He told us he was OK. He was just really fortunate to be alive. It was definitely just a scary moment for all of us.”

And Hopkins was relatively fine. Scott said the policeman told him Hopkins was knocked unconscious but would be OK. Scott said the tires on the receiver’s car were worn too thin and he happened to hit a wet patch on the road. It was raining that morning, he recalled.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that the NCAA to this day, despite all the NFL emphasis and rules and protocols established for concussed players, does not have nor follow a truly standardized protocol for return to play. And if they had had one, there would have been no way the a player that had been totally knocked unconscious would have been allowed to play that early.............whether the concussion was sustained on the field or otherwise.

No matter how one wants to look at it, this is Hopkins' SECOND significant concussion, and he thus carries a 2-4 times chance of sustaining a third.
 
drs23 said:
True but this being the PS game that's played closer to regular season games as far a time on the field for the 1's. It would have also helped Nuk get as close to "real bullet" practice as well as sharpening his timing with Matt being able to develop more on the field trust in him.

Just my way of thinking.
Click to expand...

Of course, more practice is always good for a rookie. My point was that he has no reason to hide the effects of his injury.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top