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1st preseason evaluation

The Pencil Neck said:
That's what I saw.

There wasn't a problem with the accuracy of his throw, per se, there was a problem with getting hit while throwing.

I don't know who it was on to get that picked up, but someone misread that and got the blocking assignment arsed up.
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It was a CB blitz. Not much you can do when you have 2 guys trying to block 3.

As of TJ YATES first drive both Derek Newton and Caldwell have been playing very well. Impressed with Caldwell except for that one play he got bull rushed.
 
dalemurphy said:
Shelley Smith was an animal yesterday! He played most of the game at LG and was absolutely dominant throughout. Barring injury, I don't see how they can keep him off the field. He has to at least be the backup interior lineman on game days. The guy is very, very good.
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Yes he was outstanding, but how many interior Olineman can they keep ? They've got the starters (W.Smith, Myers, & Caldwell) and their 2 rookie draft picks Brooks & Jones, so can they have more than that on the 53 man roster ? Is there any chance Shelly Smith could beat out W.Smith or Caldwell as a starter ?
 
rmartin65 said:
You think the owner orchestrated the "tank", independent of anyone else? That the players, coaching staff, GM etc had no idea what was going on?

Because that is the only way a tank job could happen. Players, coaches, and front office workers would not risk their career by doing a bad job on purpose.
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That would of been completly imposible. No way anyone could of predicted that without peyton the same colts team that was a perennial superbowl contender would have the worst record in the league.
 
That smack on Schaub was just what we needed to happen.

He got hit, he tumbled to the ground...and then he got up and walked off the field.

He now has the faith in his foot that was not going to be there had he not gotten roughed up a bit. Best thing that could've happened. Nobody is mentioning this, IIRC.

Up until then, he was untouched and untested on that foot. He even sort of crumpled a bit, IMO, as if he was bracing for the inevitable as he's getting touched by the defender...then he gets up, and you just gotta' know that he placed his weight on that foot, on that first step getting off the ground, and thought "OK, we're good to go."

Any time you come back from that big of an injury, it's in the back of your mind: Can I trust the foot? What if I plant it too hard? What if I'm not really ready?

The only way is through true trial and error. And he had not had true trial and error until a blitzer put him on the ground, in traffic.

I expect him to come out in the next game and OWN everyone. If not, if there are mobility issues that affect his passing game...then I'll be crushed. There will then be time for panic. As of now, I'm thinking he needed a good dose of rough play in order to get over the mental facet of the recovery and return to the game.
 
utahmark said:
That would of been completly imposible. No way anyone could of predicted that without peyton the same colts team that was a perennial superbowl contender would have the worst record in the league.
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I don't think either of you watch much football, other than the Texans then.

Anybody who thought the Colts would succeed with Curtis Painter at QB and Manning out for a season...I just truly don't get that train of thought. LOL.

Anyways, it's time to move on. Remember???
 
I didn't focus on any individual O-linemen, but it seemed like the right side run blocking was very good with the 2nd teamers. I know that included Newton because I saw him do some good things on occasion, but I assume that means Brooks was doing well also. I don't remember what kind of pass protection we had. Anyone focus on the O-line play specifically that could give a grade on some of these guys? It's the O-line battle that interests me the most this pre-season.
 
infantrycak said:
I'll third this. If there was an error it was in not understanding he wasn't going to get the ball off cleanly.
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It was kind of a weird play. Brown was able to push the DE into the CB and slow him up a bit. I thought that it was (tate?)'s responsiblity but he went straight up the middle.

FWIW I don't think that blitz comes if we've got AJ in there. Not very often that the opposition is going to leave a safety in single coverage and bring a CB.

Mike
 
GP said:
I don't think either of you watch much football, other than the Texans then.

Anybody who thought the Colts would succeed with Curtis Painter at QB and Manning out for a season...I just truly don't get that train of thought. LOL.

Anyways, it's time to move on. Remember???
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You cant just throw out a dig, then hope no one will answer.

The Colts did not know Manning would not be available the whole season during the summer (where big moves are made). Also, I did not expect the Colts to be Super Bowl contenders without Manning, but I did not expect 2-14. Anywhere around 4-12 sounded about right.
 
utahmark said:
That would of been completly imposible. No way anyone could of predicted that without peyton the same colts team that was a perennial superbowl contender would have the worst record in the league.
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rmartin65 said:
Which was what my point was.
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Not to get into the argument but once Manning was down everyone I know was predicting they were the worst team in the league.

Mike
 
RunninRaven said:
I didn't focus on any individual O-linemen, but it seemed like the right side run blocking was very good with the 2nd teamers. I know that included Newton because I saw him do some good things on occasion, but I assume that means Brooks was doing well also. I don't remember what kind of pass protection we had. Anyone focus on the O-line play specifically that could give a grade on some of these guys? It's the O-line battle that interests me the most this pre-season.
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1st string B
2 string A-
3 string B-
Remember that I saw Caldwell Newron and Butler all in with every string.
 
GP said:
I don't think either of you watch much football, other than the Texans then.

Anybody who thought the Colts would succeed with Curtis Painter at QB and Manning out for a season...I just truly don't get that train of thought. LOL.

Anyways, it's time to move on. Remember???
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Anybody who was watching last year knows Kerry Collins was the intended starter until going on IR. You might have noticed him - he was the QB against the Texans on opening day. Then in the first two weeks their already mediocre at best D lost two starters to IR. Your conspiracy theory on this stuff is whack. As rmartin has ably pointed out there is no way the coaches and GM were in on any such plot.
 
Texanmike02 said:
Not to get into the argument but once Manning was down everyone I know was predicting they were the worst team in the league.

Mike
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That's how I remember it as well but I don't know about worse team in the league bad.

BUT, I visited the Colts message board quite a bit and their own fans largely seemed to believe they'd win more than they did. 8-8 seemed to be about the low end of the specturm of predictions for them.

But I don't understand this talk of the colts tanking or of them not building a good team. They went to the superbowl 2 times and won once. I hope we can be that bad one day.
 
infantrycak said:
Anybody who was watching last year knows Kerry Collins was the intended starter until going on IR. Then in the first two weeks their already mediocre at best D lost two starters to IR. Your conspiracy theory on this stuff is whack.
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True but everyone knew that if they couldn't get up by 2 scores early that their defense was going to get demolished. They were built around Peyton's offense.

Once Peyton was gone they were done.

Mike
 
Texanmike02 said:
True but everyone knew that if they couldn't get up by 2 scores early that their defense was going to get demolished. They were built around Peyton's offense.

Once Peyton was gone they were done.

Mike
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Done in what sense?

Not being superbowl contenders? Well of course.

Done as in struggle to win 2 games...I don't think many people thought they'd be THAT bad...
 
Texanmike02 said:
True but everyone knew that if they couldn't get up by 2 scores early that their defense was going to get demolished. They were built around Peyton's offense.

Once Peyton was gone they were done.
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I am not saying anyone thought they were going to do well without Manning. That team was built entirely around him. In fact what I am saying is the exact game total may have been lower than initially expected but it didn't take any mass tanking conspiracy to get where they ended.
 
infantrycak said:
I am not saying anyone thought they were going to do well without Manning. That team was built entirely around him. In fact what I am saying is the exact game total may have been lower than initially expected but it didn't take any mass tanking conspiracy to get where they ended.
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Hell, one of their two wins last year was against the Texans. LOL
 
Can we please discuss the Colts in the NFL forum? :)

On the Schaub interception, I chalk that up to a well timed CB blitz that the Carolina D made a play with. Sometimes you can't help it if the defense makes a good play.

What I really wanted to see out of Schaub was how much zip was on his passes, if his mechanics were any different and if he was less mobile than before. Honestly he looked like the same old guy, just with a lot of time missing since last we saw him. There was some mental rust but I think physically he looked pretty decent. Hoping the Doc can come in and give his analysis on if he was favoring a foot while throwing or if his balance looked off or if there were any indicators that Doc could pick up on that us normies can't.
 
The right side of our offensive line was terrible in pass protection. Butler got beat several times and allowed QB hits. Brown looked great in contrast. We really need to figure out what to do at RT, because it looked like the weak link on the line that game.
 
Rey said:
Done in what sense?

Not being superbowl contenders? Well of course.

Done as in struggle to win 2 games...I don't think many people thought they'd be THAT bad...
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Done as in a 3 or 4 win team at best. They were already vunerable with Manning at the helm, without manning they were going to be one of the worst teams in the league. Their defense was built to rush the passer once they got ahead. They had made a lot of bad personnel decisions that was masked by having one of the best QBs of all time. Collins wasn't going to save them, he might have made them watchable but he wasn't going to win games.

Mike
 
Jackie Chiles said:
Do you remember at what time he came into the game? I might go back and watch it again and wouldn't mind seeing if I agree with your assessment.
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He came in with the twos (end of 1st) and played into the 4th quarter,I believe.

I know the numbers are difficult. However, this guy is a starter caliber player (and a good one), IMO. The Texans may not keep a 4th OT (they may use Brooks or Wade Smith as the 4th, so that would open up some room). Still, from what I have seen, I would cut Jones or Brooks (I know they wont) before Shelley Smith, if he has a healthy preseason.
 
dalemurphy said:
He came in with the twos (end of 1st) and played into the 4th quarter,I believe.

I know the numbers are difficult. However, this guy is a starter caliber player (and a good one), IMO. The Texans may not keep a 4th OT (they may use Brooks or Wade Smith as the 4th, so that would open up some room). Still, from what I have seen, I would cut Jones or Brooks (I know they wont) before Shelley Smith, if he has a healthy preseason.
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Jones played a lot of snaps as well after Myers was done for the night and I thought he was decent enough.
 
dalemurphy said:
He came in with the twos (end of 1st) and played into the 4th quarter,I believe.

I know the numbers are difficult. However, this guy is a starter caliber player (and a good one), IMO. The Texans may not keep a 4th OT (they may use Brooks or Wade Smith as the 4th, so that would open up some room). Still, from what I have seen, I would cut Jones or Brooks (I know they wont) before Shelley Smith, if he has a healthy preseason.
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In the past, Kubes has gone with 3 tackles and a couple stuffed on PS. I expect us to go with Brown on the LHS and Newton on the RHS with Butler being a swing tackle.

When I put my 53 together, I had us keeping Brooks and Jones because they're draft choices. Although I think Brooks could step in at RT in a pinch. And then my last OL was Shelley. I think he's going to stick. He's being given the chance to make a case for himself, I think, much like Trindon. He's just got to step up and perform.
 
Dutchrudder said:
The right side of our offensive line was terrible in pass protection. Butler got beat several times and allowed QB hits. Brown looked great in contrast. We really need to figure out what to do at RT, because it looked like the weak link on the line that game.
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Butler actually looked pretty good. Don't know where you got that.
 
The Medic01 said:
Butler actually looked pretty good. Don't know where you got that.
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Well for starters on the Schaub INT, the DE ran right past him and had a direct hit on Schaub. On the other side of that play, Brown tied up his DE just fine, but a CB blitz came around his edge to sandwich Schaub. I don't think Butler even touched his guy before he got to Schaub.

On the Foster fumble play, he completely whiffed on his cut block. That forced Foster more towards the left side so he could avoid the guy Butler missed. Not saying the fumble was Butler's fault, but it's obvious where the O-line was making the lane and he didn't help.

Several of the early runs on the goalline failed because the right side collapsed. It was pretty obvious that this is going to be a problem down the road for us.

He looked below average to me, but I also don't think we have any better tackles on the roster.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Well for starters on the Schaub INT, the DE ran right past him and had a direct hit on Schaub. On the other side of that play, Brown tied up his DE just fine, but a CB blitz came around his edge to sandwich Schaub. I don't think Butler even touched his guy before he got to Schaub.

On the Foster fumble play, he completely whiffed on his cut block. That forced Foster more towards the left side so he could avoid the guy Butler missed. Not saying the fumble was Butler's fault, but it's obvious where the O-line was making the lane and he didn't help.

Several of the early runs on the goalline failed because the right side collapsed. It was pretty obvious that this is going to be a problem down the road for us.

He looked below average to me, but I also don't think we have any better tackles on the roster.
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He whiffd one block he took his man out of the play on the other and he had a goal Line mistake which is one fixable with more time with the rest of the blockers. I don't see how this spells doom after one preseason game.
 
The Medic01 said:
He whiffd one block he took his man out of the play on the other and he had a goal Line mistake which is one fixable with more time with the rest of the blockers. I don't see how this spells doom after one preseason game.
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Where do you get "doom" from? You're reading way too much into my comments if you think I said that. I said he was the "weak link" and that "it will be problem for us". If you call that "doom", then you're overreacting. You know, it is possible to criticize performance without going to the extreme. The guy has been in the league for 6 years now, so I expect more from him than what I think are rookie-type mistakes.

Anyways, there were other plays that he screwed up, but I'm not at home to look at them on the DVR. Those were the few I could see on the highlights at NFL.com. He was only in for about 15 snaps, which is a small sample size, but still needs to be considered.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Where do you get "doom" from? You're reading way too much into my comments if you think I said that. I said he was the "weak link" and that "it will be problem for us". If you call that "doom", then you're overreacting. You know, it is possible to criticize performance without going to the extreme. The guy has been in the league for 6 years now, so I expect more from him than what I think are rookie-type mistakes.

Anyways, there were other plays that he screwed up, but I'm not at home to look at them on the DVR. Those were the few I could see on the highlights at NFL.com. He was only in for about 15 snaps, which is a small sample size, but still needs to be considered.
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Also look at how most teams have 2-3 Oline weaknesses it looks like we really only have 1 at this point so above average.
 
The Medic01 said:
Also look at how most teams have 2-3 Oline weaknesses it looks like we really only have 1 at this point so above average.
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jeep_reaction.gif
 
b0ng said:
Can we please discuss the Colts in the NFL forum? :)

On the Schaub interception, I chalk that up to a well timed CB blitz that the Carolina D made a play with. Sometimes you can't help it if the defense makes a good play.

What I really wanted to see out of Schaub was how much zip was on his passes, if his mechanics were any different and if he was less mobile than before. Honestly he looked like the same old guy, just with a lot of time missing since last we saw him. There was some mental rust but I think physically he looked pretty decent. Hoping the Doc can come in and give his analysis on if he was favoring a foot while throwing or if his balance looked off or if there were any indicators that Doc could pick up on that us normies can't.
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Truthfully, it was very difficult to make any real conclusions. On virtually every play, he remained in the pocket, close to where the ball was snapped, hardly moving, and releasing the balls quickly. There was only one play that I saw where he ran back unobstructed to his right (mostly straight line) while most of the rest of the O ran left. He had one defender in wide open space coming at him, with multiple open receivers reported. Yet he did not seem to, or want to kick out and make an early sharp change in direction to give himself a little extra time and space to find his receiver. Can't determine intent in terms of rust vs. inability to move quickly enough. Will need to see him in more rollout/bootleg scenarios, and specifically in fierce rush situations.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Truthfully, it was very difficult to make any real conclusions. On virtually every play, he remained in the pocket, close to where the ball was snapped, hardly moving, and releasing the balls quickly. There was only one play that I saw where he ran back unobstructed to his right (mostly straight line) while most of the rest of the O ran left. He had one defender in wide open space coming at him, with multiple open receivers reported. Yet he did not seem to, or want to kick out and make an early sharp change in direction to give himself a little extra time and space to find his receiver. Can't determine intent in terms of rust vs. inability to move quickly enough. Will need to see him in more rollout/bootleg scenarios, and specifically in fierce rush situations.
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To me it looked like he didn't want to or couldn't make any sudden movements.

I could be wrong, but it looks like to me he has even less maneuverability to buy extra time.

He's never been mr speedy speed, but in the past it seemed like he would atleast try to buy extra seconds before succumbing to the rush.

Maybe I'm just seeing things or maybe it's not his inability to do it as much as his reluctance to. But I'm with you...I need to see more to pin point exactly what it is I'm seeing with him.

I didn't think he looked rusty mentally at all. Seemed very sharp in knowing where to go with the ball and I think he saw the blitz well, but as I noted I think something is not quite right physically.
 
I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.

Butler's doing the Charleston when he needs to be doing the Tango. His footwork is lousy, with a lack of balance taking away any strength,that he may have.

Gardner makes this team IMO - good feet and can get to the ground.

Brooks fits in nicely, his ability to get his body going showed in getting to the second level and pulling.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.

Butler's doing the Charleston when he needs to be doing the Tango. His footwork is lousy, with a lack of balance taking away any strength,that he may have.

Gardner makes this team IMO - good feet and can get to the ground.

Brooks fits in nicely, his ability to get his body going showed in getting to the second level and pulling.
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I haven't rewatched the game but I need to so I can rewind and watch individual o linemen.

Interesting takes to say the least.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.
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A very strong statement. Butler definitely looks like a guy who hasn't played in a year. But, I'd be surprised if Kubiak rolled the dice on Newton and Gardner, without Butler as a fallback. Not very Kubiak-esque.
 
Lucky said:
A very strong statement. Butler definitely looks like a guy who hasn't played in a year. But, I'd be surprised if Kubiak rolled the dice on Newton and Gardner, without Butler as a fallback. Not very Kubiak-esque.
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It was one game, but for me Butler was consistent from past years.

We are such a better team today. But I am extremely concerned about the RT position, especially if Butler is in the mix.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It was one game, but for me Butler was consistent from past years.

We are such a better team today. But I am extremely concerned about the RT position, especially if Butler is in the mix.
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Didn't they pay him a pretty decent contract for a swing tackle a year ago? Our line seemed to hold up fine when Brown was suspended. Do you really think he'd get cut?
 
Last edited:
Posted this on another site, so I'll just post this here.


Watched the entire game last night and thought I'd share my thoughts on our players.

Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed are still playing great. Whitney Mercilus and Bryan Braman are going to be great backups. Mercilus had a 1.5 sack and Bryan Braman had a sack, but he was all over Derek Anderson in every passing plays. Braman was a nice surprise player that went undrafted, and don't be surprised if he gets more playing this season. I don't think we'll miss a beat at pass rush, even if Barwin and Reed gets injured, although I'd prefer if they didn't.
Tim Dobbins is a beast as well, he isn't afraid to get in the OL's way and make a stop. Also had 1.5 sack. I like him a lot better than Bradie James, but I'm not sure how well Dobbins can cover. Need to see more of both. Mister Alexander didn't stand out, but that can be both good or bad.

I hope Alan Ball keep playing as bad as he did because I was impressed with Brandon Harris. Harris had his receivers on shut down and had a big goal line stop. Kareem looks a LOT better, almost had an interception but he wasn't letting Cam Newton throw all over him. Our CBs should be Joseph - Jackson - McCain - Harris. If KJ keeps improving, nobody is going to have an easy time passing on us with, especially along with our pass rush. Our safeties are going to be excellent too, Danieal Manning and Glover Quin are the most underrated starting safeties in the league, and I hope it stays that way. Troy Nolan and Quintin Demps are great backups to go with that as well, they had good plays in Saturdays game. Sherrick McManis wasn't as bad as everyone on here made him out to be, he only had one "holding" call and gave up one pass I believe, but other than that he was good.

Our DL will be great again, Tim Jamison proved that he can played with our starters if JJ Watt or Antonio Smith is ever hurt. Good Solid DE. Not sure if Jared Crick played but I don't remember seeing him.


I'm really impressed with Martin, he's as good as everyone been saying. James Casey can play, and I'm looking forward to him this season along with Garrett Graham, who also had a good game. Lestar Jean finally showed me he can play and hopefully he'll keep playing as well as he did Saturday. I'd like to see him get the ball more tho. Trindon Holliday was ****ing awesome on kick returns, not just his TD return but he had 2-3 other nice returns. I'm hoping for him to be our starter at KR.

Was impressed with TJ Yates, John Beck didn't play bad either, and Schaub threw an interception that was both the tackles fault. Rashad Butler didn't see the cornerback blitz and he had a free hit on Schaub while Derek Newton got destroyed by his man and he had a free hit on Schaub as well, but Schaub needs to throw that away or take the sack. We're going to be Duane Brown back and get him back ASAP if we want Schaub healthy.

Forsett was decent, had one dumb play but other than that I'm satisfied with him as our third string RB. 50/50 on Grimes, he doesn't have any cutting abilities, he's just a train. He had a TD, but I don't see him making the team. He'll probably end up on the PS along with Meggett, who IMO is a rookie version of Slaton, just needs some experiences IMO. #40 FB, was very good IMO. Seems like every time he was in there with Forsett, we ended up with a 4+ yards average. Was impressed by him.

I think that's it. Looking forward to the Niners game next week. I think Andre will be back and maybe Duane Brown? Cant remember how long Brown is out for, but we're going to need him.
 
Allstar said:
Didn't they pay him a pretty decent contract for a swing tackle a year ago? Our line seemed to hold up fine when Brown was suspended. Do you really think he'd get cut?
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I believe it is the final year of his contract. We have quality all over the line and are looking two deep at each position, save for RT.

I am not saying cut, but would not be surprised to see him waived. The team can do better in the short and long term.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I believe it is the final year of his contract. We have quality all over the line and are looking two deep at each position, save for RT.

I am not saying cut, but would not be surprised to see him waived. The team can do better in the short and long term.
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Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle. :)
 
beerlover said:
Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle. :)
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What are your observations on Gardner?
 
beerlover said:
Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle. :)
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This is what I was going to post. He did too well replacing Brown and we should keep Butler until end of season, minimum. Coming back from injury & new position earns him rest of preseason before much panic on my part.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Well for starters on the Schaub INT, the DE ran right past him and had a direct hit on Schaub. On the other side of that play, Brown tied up his DE just fine, but a CB blitz came around his edge to sandwich Schaub. I don't think Butler even touched his guy before he got to Schaub.

On the Foster fumble play, he completely whiffed on his cut block. That forced Foster more towards the left side so he could avoid the guy Butler missed. Not saying the fumble was Butler's fault, but it's obvious where the O-line was making the lane and he didn't help.

Several of the early runs on the goalline failed because the right side collapsed. It was pretty obvious that this is going to be a problem down the road for us.

He looked below average to me, but I also don't think we have any better tackles on the roster.
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1. On the INT, it was Newton who got beat.
BUTLER was not in the line-up.

2. The cut block on Foster's fumble was not good, but it wasn't terrible.
Afterall, Foster did gain some nine yards on the play.
 
ChampionTexan said:
What is the distinction between waived and cut?
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It depends on whether the player is a vested veteran or not but it's effectively the same thing for the team getting rid of the player.

For the player, it's a very different thing. If you're a vested veteran and you're cut, you're free to sign with whoever you want. If you're not a vested veteran and you're cut, teams can place a claim on you. The teams get priority based on their previous year's record. So a player gets cut and a 2-14 team and a 14-2 team places a claim on him, the 2-14 team gets the player.
 
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