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12th pick?
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Without a full ist of the underclassmen declaring...no. But I'll take a stab at it anyways and say DE Mathis Kiwanuka out of BC
beerlover said:
from draftcrazy.com (if it is wrong blame them)
http://www.draftcrazy.com/draftorder.html
Looks like 13 unless the cowboys win and then 12th.
Boy,that was disgusting watching the Texans' play against the Browns; reminds one of the Bengals' wipeout ( luckily I was out of town for that one)... A playmaker for the defense...DL ( payne got hurt again) or LB Derrick Johnson if we can afford to move up. Yes, let's upgrade the left side of OL
Number19
Hall of Fame
It's way early, but I'll take a stab at it. IMO we have two critical needs - improving our pass rush and improving our pass protection. The problem with our first draft selection is finding someone who is worth the early selection and who also fits our system.beerlover said:
Offensively, I like David Baas - OG (he would be a reach at #12); Elton Brown - OG; Alex Barron - OT; Jammal Brown - OT.
Defensively, Rod Wright will be returning to school. Marcus Spears did not impress this past weekend. Derrick Johnson did not impress. Ahmed Brooks will be returning to school. In fact, right now I'm not partial to any of the elite defensive players as a fit for our system, for this early pick.
So I'm leaning toward one of the OLmen.
What really intrigues me, is using our second pick on Haloti Ngata. A project, he has the potential to dominate on the DL. A natural NT, he has the athletism to also play DE. A junior, I haven't read a clue which direction he is leaning.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
nice job 19. Haloti Ngata will only come out if the NFL's special advisory committee suggests he would be one of the top DT's taken (which I think he would) with Paynes issues the Texans may have more than a passing interest with their 1st round pick.
I also like Elton Brown but in the 2nd round
I also like Elton Brown but in the 2nd round
wags
Veteran
beerlover said:nice job 19. Haloti Ngata will only come out if the NFL's special advisory committee suggests he would be one of the top DT's taken (which I think he would) with Paynes issues the Texans may have more than a passing interest with their 1st round pick.
I also like Elton Brown but in the 2nd round
I don't think any DT in this crop is worth our first pick. Ngata is also coming off a major knee injury, the same as Payne.
I would love to get either Brown or Baas in RD 2, but I think they will be gone by then. Remember NY Giants, San Fran, Miami, Cleveland, pretty much every team in front of us needs OL help also.
jacquescas
Veteran
My philosophy on the draft is to at least get fair value for your picks.
At this point before supplemental picks we have 9 picks. all of our picks in all 7 rounds and the 3rd rounder of Dallas and 7th rounder of the Chiefs.
If there is a particular player we target, say G David Baas, he isn't graded at the 12th slot, nothing wrong with taking him, just the smart thing to do is trade down to a spot to be sure you get him, and get the value of an extra pick, (4th or 5th round maybe).
I advocate upgrading the TE position. Billy Miller is not the answer, he can't run block, and when he is in its obvious we are passing so he gets blanketed. We need to either sign Bubba Franks from the Packers, or draft someone with one of our 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I'd love to see what Bennie Joppru can do, but i'm going on the assumption that he will never play significant time. If he proves me wrong and we are left with a pair of talented TE's, thats a problem i'd take over having none. A TE that can consistantly run block, and pass catch will help our running game alot more too, and take alot of the pass catching pressure off Davis, allowing him to not tire out so quickly.
There are a few players who if they were on the draft board i'd select regardless of need. Alex Baron.... Antrelle Rolle.... Dan Cody....Mike Williams...
At this point before supplemental picks we have 9 picks. all of our picks in all 7 rounds and the 3rd rounder of Dallas and 7th rounder of the Chiefs.
If there is a particular player we target, say G David Baas, he isn't graded at the 12th slot, nothing wrong with taking him, just the smart thing to do is trade down to a spot to be sure you get him, and get the value of an extra pick, (4th or 5th round maybe).
I advocate upgrading the TE position. Billy Miller is not the answer, he can't run block, and when he is in its obvious we are passing so he gets blanketed. We need to either sign Bubba Franks from the Packers, or draft someone with one of our 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I'd love to see what Bennie Joppru can do, but i'm going on the assumption that he will never play significant time. If he proves me wrong and we are left with a pair of talented TE's, thats a problem i'd take over having none. A TE that can consistantly run block, and pass catch will help our running game alot more too, and take alot of the pass catching pressure off Davis, allowing him to not tire out so quickly.
There are a few players who if they were on the draft board i'd select regardless of need. Alex Baron.... Antrelle Rolle.... Dan Cody....Mike Williams...
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I'd love to upgrade the TE spot also, I just don't think HEath Miller, teh best of this years TE class, is worth the 12th/13th pick in the draft.
Number19
Hall of Fame
His injury was in the 2003 opener (September) so he has had a year & a half to recover and has played a full season since then (2004). It has been stated frequently in this forum that it takes a year or two for a NT to develope. He is sufficently "back from his injury" to serve in a back-up role his rookie season.wags said:
Number19
Hall of Fame
DJ is certainly an elite LB, but I keep reading over and over that the 43 defensive scheme is his element. As good as he may be, he is just not an ideal fit for the 34.Fiddy said:
Another LB who did not impress, but who is a natural 34 ILB, is Chad Greenway. A junior, he almost certainly will return to school. He'll be a high pick in 2006.
edo783
Hall of Fame
As interesting as the draft is, there is little likelyhood that anyone we draft will be of much help to us next year. Good prospects to develope and have assume the starters role in a year or two, particularly an o-line prospect, but not starters right off the bat. The line will probably have to be upgraded near term via FA.
Number19
Hall of Fame
His father passed away recently and his family needs help financially. His father wanted him to graduate and the son wants to honor his wish. But he is considering getting his degree as a part time student between playing seasons so he can help out his family in the near term.beerlover said:
BuffSoldier
Veteran
i would love to get one of the top O-linemen like ive been saying all season, but if that doesnt happen I would love to see us draft D. Thomas or a good d-lineman.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
On the Charley Casserly show (just finished), Casserly stated that we will have to take BPA in this draft and will have to make a trade if we want to fill a specific position. I assume this is because he considers the draft a weak one. You have to get 1st round talent with your first round pick. Picking for a need may not give us that where we are.
Number19
Hall of Fame
As much as we may be disappointed with the recent play of our team, we have progressed to a point where any second rounder we pick may not start or contribute much initially. Heck, you can say this for our first rounder, also.wags said:
Ngata is such a talent that he has as much a chance to contribute as anyone.
Hottoddie
Veteran
Casserly did mention that we might be looking for a couple of bargain basement FA's. I could see him making a run at Bubba Franks & an OL in free agency.
As for our 1st pick, Antaaj Hawthorne might be a solid pick. While we need to address depth & possibly upgrade a position or two on the OL, I feel that we need to get a big, strong NT that will demand a double team on every play.
I watched the Wisconsin game & Hawthorne was doubled on almost every play. When he wasn't doubled, he drove his man backwards everytime. He's a solid player that could make the entire defensive unit better by allowing us to move Payne over into Walker's slot.
As for our 1st pick, Antaaj Hawthorne might be a solid pick. While we need to address depth & possibly upgrade a position or two on the OL, I feel that we need to get a big, strong NT that will demand a double team on every play.
I watched the Wisconsin game & Hawthorne was doubled on almost every play. When he wasn't doubled, he drove his man backwards everytime. He's a solid player that could make the entire defensive unit better by allowing us to move Payne over into Walker's slot.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
does anyone have a scouting report on Antaaj Hawthorne? some people seem to be pretty high on him, and i can not say i know very much about this guy. i am not very big on the dlinemen out of LSU. in fact im not really big on bass either. derrick johnson will be a nice nfl player, but i dont feel like he would fit us best. thanks for the scouting report and post more on this young man.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
carefull wags, I mean I saw the same thing as you did but College does not always easily translate to the NFL, din din din dahhhh. Antaaj Hawthorne would be an excellent pick as the Texans future two gap DT/NT if the #1 prospect at that position Haloti Ngata returns for his senior season. Erasmus James I was very impressed with even though he was effectivly handled (double & triple teamed) I think he will be the best DE rookie in a 4-3 next year in the NFL. And Pollack has outside linebacker in a 3-4 marked all over him, think of Babin as a poor mans Pollack, yeah in the right system he is going to be good, but not DE in a 4-3.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
wags said:Antaaj made exactly zero plays in this game. He was handled by the Georgia line, as was Erasmus James. Georgia rushed for 196 yards. Ask yourself this, "why was David Pollack able to make plays against double teams, and these guys couldn't."
Wasn't Pollack hurt too? I thought I heard the announcers mention that a time or two. I know Erasmus James was still recovering from the injury he suffered to his leg earlier in the year against Purdue I think.
Hottoddie
Veteran
wags said:Antaaj made exactly zero plays in this game. He was handled by the Georgia line, as was Erasmus James. Georgia rushed for 196 yards. Ask yourself this, "why was David Pollack able to make plays against double teams, and these guys couldn't."
Actually, I believe he got in on the lone sack that Wisconsin got.
To answer your question, Pollack was operating on the outside of the line, while Hawthorne was working on the interior of the line. As you know, that's usually where the majority of the congestion is.
Other than that, you're right. He made no big plays. He did, however, force Georgia to tie up two players almost the entire game, just to block him. On those occasions when they didn't double team him, he pushed his blocker back into the pocket. The intent of my post was to point out his strength at the DT position & how that might benefit us.
The NT in the 3-4 rarely makes big plays. His job is to collapse the pocket & control the OL, while the DE's & LB's get all the glory plays. Look at any team in the NFL that runs the 3-4 & you'll see that they usually get about 30-40 tackles a year & maybe a couple of sacks, while other defensive players are consistently getting 60+ tackles a year.
While Pollack would allow us to move Wong into Foreman's slot, I doubt that we'll be drafting him, or even have a chance at him.
I truely believe that we need a strong, dominating NT to control the line & collapse the pocket. Getting a player of that caliber would allow us to move Payne over to Walker's spot & take him out of some of the congestion.
And that brings me to another concern I have. Walker is playing the DE position & only got 29 tackles & .5 sacks. That's pathetic from a player that's getting paid as much as he is. Payne (coming off of major surgery) had 51 tackles & 2 sacks, while Robaire (his 1st year in the 3-4) had 53 tackles & 2 sacks. We need to let Walker walk (pardon the pun) & resign Payne.
wags
Veteran
I don't think we'll draft a DT in the first round, especially at 13. I'll be very disappointed if we do. I think we are going to re-sign Payne, and he'll do a good job. Casserly said we'll be drafting BPA with our first pick, and guys like Hawthorne or Ngata will not be the BPA.
I don't think we'll draft Pollack either, and I have never thought he would fit into our defense.
We probably won't release Walker because of the huge cap hit we would take.
I don't think we'll draft Pollack either, and I have never thought he would fit into our defense.
We probably won't release Walker because of the huge cap hit we would take.
