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Trouble for Talib

Hoth-Boy said:
I think it's safe to say that Mr. Talib will not be a Houston Texan at this point in time.
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Yeah, if this is true, Talib is likely off the Texans board. It's not just a directive from Bob McNair. Smith & Kubiak have seen Mike Shanahan take guys with questionable character and have it come back to haunt the Broncos.

That's one of the problems fans have in determining draft prospects. We don't know what NFL teams know. This is the time of the year this type of stuff begins to leak out. But, we never know everything.

Speaking of not knowing everything, someone forgot to tell John McClain about Talib's problems. Da General has the Texans taking the Kansas corner in the NFL.com mock draft.
 
i really dont think thats a reason not to draft a player. this is the NFL people do drugs. people do worse drugs than weed. im sure a TON of players smoke weed its not a big deal doesnt take anything away from their game or their character unless they turn into ricky which i doubt will happen
 
Admitting to using and testing positive multiple times is different. No making excuses for anyone here.
 
camron1269 said:
i really dont think thats a reason not to draft a player. this is the NFL people do drugs. people do worse drugs than weed. im sure a TON of players smoke weed its not a big deal doesnt take anything away from their game or their character unless they turn into ricky which i doubt will happen
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Except that it's illegal and all.
 
PapaL said:
Admitting to using and testing positive multiple times is different. No making excuses for anyone here.
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Indeed. Amobi admitted to trying it one time, Talib not ony has failed multiple drug tests but he even told his coach that he was going to fail the test before hand. It's selfish behaviour to put your team and it's season in risk my contiuingly breaking the law.
 
camron1269 said:
im sure a TON of players smoke weed its not a big deal doesnt take anything away from their game...
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It takes away from their game if they're on drug suspension. People make mistakes. But 3 mistakes that are exactly the same mistake? That doesn't seem like a guy who is learning the error of his ways.

Let's not turn this into how bad marijuana is or isn't. That's not the point. The NFL requires players to follow the rules of employment. If a guy believes smoking weed is more important than playing pro football, he can get a number of jobs that don't require drug testing. If football (and the $$$ that comes with it) is more important, than he should have the willpower and discretion to put the smoke out until his football career is over. It's really that simple.
 
camron1269 said:
i really dont think thats a reason not to draft a player. this is the NFL people do drugs. people do worse drugs than weed. im sure a TON of players smoke weed its not a big deal doesnt take anything away from their game or their character unless they turn into ricky which i doubt will happen
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Are you kidding me? He did not test positive one time and learn his lesson, he tested positive three times and acted like it was not an issue! There is a new sheriff in the NFL and agree with him or not if Talib cant stay away from the Hippie Lettuce he WILL be suspended and our 18th pick will be wasted. Ask Travis Henry, if he was not lucky enough to win his BS appeal last season he would have been suspended again. My concern is not that he smoked pot in college, bif F deeal. The issue is he got caught twice and continued the beahvior anough to get caught a third time!
 
Htownsportsfan said:
Are you kidding me? He did not test positive one time and learn his lesson, he tested positive three times and acted like it was not an issue! There is a new sheriff in the NFL and agree with him or not if Talib cant stay away from the Hippie Lettuce he WILL be suspended and our 18th pick will be wasted. Ask Travis Henry, if he was not lucky enough to win his BS appeal last season he would have been suspended again. My concern is not that he smoked pot in college, bif F deeal. The issue is he got caught twice and continued the beahvior anough to get caught a third time!
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Exactly, if it was a one time deal I'd say big deal; like most teams did with Calvin Johnson and Amobi Okoye.

It's the getting got 3 times. Mr. Goddell does not play by the old rules.
 
Yaosa said:
Ya'll do know Okoye admitting to using too right?
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Apples and oranges.

I've been a Talib fan, and have said before that I wouldn't mind seeing him taken at #18, but if the facts as reported are correct, I no longer feel that way. I don't think taking him off the draftboard is over-reacting. It's not like Talib was a top 10 pick to begin with.
 
Lucky said:
Yeah, if this is true, Talib is likely off the Texans board. It's not just a directive from Bob McNair. Smith & Kubiak have seen Mike Shanahan take guys with questionable character and have it come back to haunt the Broncos.

That's one of the problems fans have in determining draft prospects. We don't know what NFL teams know. This is the time of the year this type of stuff begins to leak out. But, we never know everything.

Speaking of not knowing everything, someone forgot to tell John McClain about Talib's problems. Da General has the Texans taking the Kansas corner in the NFL.com mock draft.
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No. That was the General's pick for that day. Today is another day and then there will be tomorrow, but hey (as Casserly would say) I change my mind daily also.
 
wow this is dumb... i cant wait until a player gets suspended for weed thats NOT talib. my point is that a very large percentage of NFL players smoke pot, talib was just caught 3 times. maybe kansas has stricter testing rules. he obviously hasnt discovered the wonders of detox yet. once he gets into the league, other players will introduce him to it. you dont take a player of his caliber off your draft board because of this. ricky williams, travis henry, how many other people. no more than 20 total names that have gotten busted and i guarantee you thats a tiny fraction of the players that regularly smoke.
i think some of you are just saying this bc in that article one team official said he wouldnt touch Talib.
thats because of his OTHER non-drug related issues which he actually DID get suspended for. he also says since his daughter was born he has changed. yea he could be bluffing but a kid changed sean taylor's ways it could change talib's too
once again, burn the kid for his nondrug related issues not the marijuana. its unfair to take him off a draft list because of something everybody else does as well. different programs have different testing rules and such and he claims hes changing his ways. at the least hell be more careful just because this is getting attention and causing him to slip and lose money (that tends to get players attentions more than testing positive and not even getting suspended)
 
People, 1993-1995 called and they want their Cowboy jokes back. Geez, people can be ignorant. :)

I think the guy is a little slow for my taste and will be a solid player for years but not a stud. JMO.
 
The1ApplePie said:
He could be using a worse drug, like alcohol
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Except the alcohol is legal once somebody is 21, while pot is not.

Talib has shown that he is unable to not only follow the rules of NCAA football, and by extension the rules on the NFL (which are much tougher) he is unable to follow the laws of the land. This is not a good sign, and will just about guarantee that he will be removed from the Texans draft board.

There is a huge difference between trying the weed and being a habitual user of the weed.
 
The1ApplePie said:
He could be using a worse drug, like alcohol
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One is illegal and one is not. One will cause you to lose a lot of jobs and one will not. One is strictly for bidden in the NFL one is not.

Now again which is the worse drug?

Education is not just for little kids, it is for adutls to.
 
badboy said:
No. That was the General's pick for that day. Today is another day and then there will be tomorrow...
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What we know today can change our opinion, certainly. My point is that McClain is paid to find out these things. And he doesn't.

camron1269 said:
wow this is dumb...
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You're making a ton of assumptions regarding Talib. He will change because he has a child. He will get with the program once he enters the league. He might not get caught, so it's no big deal.

The problem is that a team with a 1st round draft choice can't make those assumptions on a $multi-million business deal. At least, the Texans can't. The risk in selecting a player with this problem outweighs the benefit. Let's assume for a moment that many players do smoke weed without getting caught. I guess these guys have the system figured out. Talib is getting caught on multiple occasions. He doesn't know how to game the system. Or his problem is so severe the system is bound to catch him.

Either way, he's very likely not getting drafted by the Texans. Which is a shame, because I think he's a very good football player.
 
Nolan Nawrocki is a very reliable source. this is unfortunate. sometimes when everything around you is going so well, you feel safe, invinceable & need to let off some steam/pressure its hard amongst your peer group to help yourself from making stupid decisions. repeatedly.

Regardless of character issues if he was on the board in the 3rd rd. I'd take him in a heart beat :cool:
 
While I think this will hurt him, especially with the Texans, I kind of agree with camron. I'd bet that alot of NFL players DO smoke weed, they just use clean piss, or drink a cleaner before the test. The fact that this guy didn't care to atleast TRY and cover it up is troubling in itself though.
 
Specnatz said:
One is illegal and one is not. One will cause you to lose a lot of jobs and one will not. One is strictly for bidden in the NFL one is not.

Now again which is the worse drug?

Education is not just for little kids, it is for adutls to.
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Because people showing up drunk or hung over never costs them jobs?

By about any level, booze is far worse for you than weed. Compare the number of deaths related to weed vs booze
 
When I first heard about this a few weeks ago, I had my doubts but now Talib has to be off the draft boards.

College football is about dedication to your team. Not to say that it isn't in the pro's, but there's no cash flow (for the honest players) coming in during your collegiate years. Besides a scholarship, you're there becuase you want to put forth your best efforts for the team or even your own personal gain. If there's any indication of an attitude problem, it only becomes amplified with money. Mo' money mo' problems as they say. I'm not willing to take a chance when the commisioner is cracking down on substance abusers. I no longer want Talib on our team.
 
To keep it in somewhat perspective, Amobi Okoye also admitted to smoking weed (although not to this extent but who knows).
 
dtran04 said:
To keep it in somewhat perspective, Amobi Okoye also admitted to smoking weed (although not to this extent but who knows).
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Okoye admitted to trying weed ONE time, never failed a drug test, & has admitted it was a poor choice.

Talib has failed THREE drugs tests & still thinks it is not a big deal.

There's some perspective.
 
TexansSeminole said:
While I think this will hurt him, especially with the Texans, I kind of agree with camron. I'd bet that alot of NFL players DO smoke weed, they just use clean piss, or drink a cleaner before the test. The fact that this guy didn't care to atleast TRY and cover it up is troubling in itself though.
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The arugement people make defending pot use are just to damn funny! Drink a cleaner!!! He better drink a whole lot and often since the testing has increase to 10 players per week from each team choosen at random, as well as in increase in the amount of random tests in the offseason. If all players had to do was use clean piss or dink a cleaner no one would get caught, not Sticky Ricky, no T. Henry, not Mike Vick, nobody. But since you can walk into the training facility and find a testing agent waiting for you who never leaves you side its a little harder to avoid than you think. Now that players forfeit portions of their signng bonus as well as weekly game checks I think more players are using what we call Judgement and avoid the herb. Hell considering how short the average career is they can spend the rest of their lives getting high!
 
The1ApplePie said:
Because people showing up drunk or hung over never costs them jobs?

By about any level, booze is far worse for you than weed. Compare the number of deaths related to weed vs booze
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True about showing up drunk or hung over but two days later if I piss in a cup I wont get fired but if I smoke weed I would.
 
Specnatz said:
True about showing up drunk or hung over but two days later if I piss in a cup I wont get fired but if I smoke weed I would.
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These days you can't smoke tobacco in a lot of places either:bat:

I went to one job interview, and they gave a piss test for nicotine!
 
so you don't take talib's word that his new born daughter is helping him change his ways but oh amobi said he only did it ONE time so he must be telling the truth because hes amobi. people dont smoke weed one time. and if they do only take a couple of puffs just to "try it" theres absolutely no chance they'd reveal that in a job interview that could cost them millions. in my opinion, he smoked a lot more than just once and said he did it once so that hes at least partially telling the truth because people like you guys will believe him and say oh he ONLY did it once. aqib talib just isnt that smart. he never got into harvard.
 
ricky-704010.jpg


I say he should be a Dolphin .
 
camron1269 said:
so you don't take talib's word that his new born daughter is helping him change his ways but oh amobi said he only did it ONE time so he must be telling the truth because hes amobi. people dont smoke weed one time. and if they do only take a couple of puffs just to "try it" theres absolutely no chance they'd reveal that in a job interview that could cost them millions. in my opinion, he smoked a lot more than just once and said he did it once so that hes at least partially telling the truth because people like you guys will believe him and say oh he ONLY did it once. aqib talib just isnt that smart. he never got into harvard.
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why is it impossible to smoke pot only one time? ive tried it before and i honestly dont see why its so popular and cool. maybe thats just me though...

anyway, the biggest problem with talib is that he did not learn (3 failed attempts?). he will have trouble with any team if he still thinks he can do whatever he wants. do teams still trust him saying he is changing for his daughter? it couldnt be that his draft stock would drop. or could it?

here is what smith had to say in the chron:

"We do exhaustive research because we realize the investment we're going to make," Smith said. "We gather as much information as we can on background and character. We realize that young people make mistakes. The key is
do they learn from their mistakes.

"We believe in second chances if we think they're worthy of second chances."
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Link
 
camron1269 said:
so you don't take talib's word that his new born daughter is helping him change his ways but oh amobi said he only did it ONE time so he must be telling the truth because hes amobi. people dont smoke weed one time. and if they do only take a couple of puffs just to "try it" theres absolutely no chance they'd reveal that in a job interview that could cost them millions. in my opinion, he smoked a lot more than just once and said he did it once so that hes at least partially telling the truth because people like you guys will believe him and say oh he ONLY did it once. aqib talib just isnt that smart. he never got into harvard.
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1) Okoye has never failed a test. Therefore, he didn't even have to admit that he has ever tried it before. Since there is no proof that he is lying there is no reason not to believe him.

Talib has failed three tests, so why should I take his word on anything. He has to prove that he can change.

2) So you have spoken to every person in the world that has ever tried marijuana? And they all told you that it was impossible to only do it once?

Or this just your own personal experience?

3) You are making a lot of assumptions.

4) The story was that Calvin Johnson & Okoye answered that question because they were under the impression that every answer in the interview was supposed to be honest.

So let's throw their word out the window because they told the truth?

But let's just forget about Talib's past because he has a kid now, and having a kid changes everything?

Travis Henry has a few kids doesn't he? How much has he changed?
 
The1ApplePie said:
Because people showing up drunk or hung over never costs them jobs?

By about any level, booze is far worse for you than weed. Compare the number of deaths related to weed vs booze
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But once again, this time in bold, one is legal while the other can get you thrown in jail.
 
FYI, Mayock still has him listed as #2 cb in the draft & said "knew about the dope allegations 4 months ago".
 
camron1269 said:
so you don't take talib's word that his new born daughter is helping him change his ways but oh amobi said he only did it ONE time so he must be telling the truth because hes amobi. people dont smoke weed one time. and if they do only take a couple of puffs just to "try it" theres absolutely no chance they'd reveal that in a job interview that could cost them millions. in my opinion, he smoked a lot more than just once and said he did it once so that hes at least partially telling the truth because people like you guys will believe him and say oh he ONLY did it once. aqib talib just isnt that smart. he never got into harvard.
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I think that Okoye also had other character factors that worked in his favor. That he is a bright guy who academically excelled, and there is no indication that he got in trouble at school or with his coaches.
 
Htownsportsfan said:
The argument people make defending pot use are just to damn funny! Drink a cleaner!!! He better drink a whole lot and often since the testing has increase to 10 players per week from each team choosen at random, as well as in increase in the amount of random tests in the offseason. If all players had to do was use clean piss or dink a cleaner no one would get caught, not Sticky Ricky, no T. Henry, not Mike Vick, nobody. But since you can walk into the training facility and find a testing agent waiting for you who never leaves you side its a little harder to avoid than you think. Now that players forfeit portions of their signng bonus as well as weekly game checks I think more players are using what we call Judgement and avoid the herb. Hell considering how short the average career is they can spend the rest of their lives getting high!
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Its not about defending the people who smoke pot and play in the NFL, its about understanding that some of them do. There are substance abuse problems, or possession problems quite often when it comes to NFL players. It's obviously easy enough to get away with as to where a player would try it, and possibly give up a million dollar salary, or at least some of that money. Drinking a cleaner is easy. You drink it a couple hours before the test, drink alot of water, and you take the test. Using the cleaner is much easier than you may think. He could drink it, just to be safe, even if he suspected that there would be a random drug test of the team that day, and have no side effect. It's not expensive, especially considering their salary.

beerlover said:
FYI, Mayock still has him listed as #2 cb in the draft & said "knew about the dope allegations 4 months ago".
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I believe him. Probably most of the teams knew a long time ago as well.

Now looking at Talib's situation, this looks like it will hurt him pretty badly. One time isn't so bad, but that should have been a wake up call. The second time and third time are really going to make teams wonder about if this could be a problem in the future. This also shows that, at the least, he is hard-headed. Three failed drug tests. Come on.
 
TexansSeminole said:
IDrinking a cleaner is easy. You drink it a couple hours before the test, drink alot of water, and you take the test.
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The NFL tests for cleansing agents. They also flag tests with too high a concentration of water. They aren't a bunch of rubes.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Its not about defending the people who smoke pot and play in the NFL, its about understanding that some of them do. There are substance abuse problems, or possession problems quite often when it comes to NFL players. It's obviously easy enough to get away with as to where a player would try it, and possibly give up a million dollar salary, or at least some of that money. Drinking a cleaner is easy. You drink it a couple hours before the test, drink alot of water, and you take the test. Using the cleaner is much easier than you may think. He could drink it, just to be safe, even if he suspected that there would be a random drug test of the team that day, and have no side effect. It's not expensive, especially considering their salary.



I believe him. Probably most of the teams knew a long time ago as well.

Now looking at Talib's situation, this looks like it will hurt him pretty badly. One time isn't so bad, but that should have been a wake up call. The second time and third time are really going to make teams wonder about if this could be a problem in the future. This also shows that, at the least, he is hard-headed. Three failed drug tests. Come on.
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Sorry to me thats is still laughable and inexcusable. He tested positive three times! The reason they test is because it is against the the rules and dont want want players getting high. The fact that he did not learn after the first test let alone the second test says what? Maybe that he does not care or is that he does not have the fortitude to give up something that while fun could cost him draft postion and money. That to me is a concern in todays zero tolerance NFL. I really dont care about who smokes pot and who does not, however it is against the law and NFL rules so I would prefer to avoid players who would put my teams best interest at risk for a good time. Also, my point about the cleaner was that what are the chances a guy is going to consistantly use the cleaner? If he goes two years in the league and never gets tested and he gets careless and next thing you know its a positive test. Lots of players have and still smoke pot I am sure, but if you have a guy who has a history (3 times is a history) of getting caught he may not be a bad guy but he might be a bad risk for a draft pick.
 
Leaving no stone unturned
Smith means need versus taking the best player available.

Smith will rule out some prospects who got into trouble in college, but he doesn't rule out every prospect because of his off-the-field behavior. Last year, Okoye was one of several prospects who admitted in combine interviews they had smoked marijuana.

"We do exhaustive research because we realize the investment we're going to make," Smith said. "We gather as much information as we can on background and character. We realize that young people make mistakes. The key is
do they learn from their mistakes.

"We believe in second chances if we think they're worthy of second chances."

Smith won't comment on specific players and revelations about them and allegations against them, but he's been around long enough to know that if the Texans ruled out every player with some kind of transgression in his background, then he could cut his draft board in half.

"As the general manager, I have to keep the big picture in mind," he said. "I have to build the roster and put the team together. Our goal is to build the best possible team we can with the best possible players we can get."
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5685619.html

me thinks he was talking about Talib. This article showed up a day after the Talib weed thing leaked out.
 
Htownsportsfan said:
Sorry to me thats is still laughable and inexcusable. He tested positive three times! The reason they test is because it is against the the rules and dont want want players getting high. The fact that he did not learn after the first test let alone the second test says what? Maybe that he does not care or is that he does not have the fortitude to give up something that while fun could cost him draft postion and money. That to me is a concern in todays zero tolerance NFL. I really dont care about who smokes pot and who does not, however it is against the law and NFL rules so I would prefer to avoid players who would put my teams best interest at risk for a good time. Also, my point about the cleaner was that what are the chances a guy is going to consistantly use the cleaner? If he goes two years in the league and never gets tested and he gets careless and next thing you know its a positive test. Lots of players have and still smoke pot I am sure, but if you have a guy who has a history (3 times is a history) of getting caught he may not be a bad guy but he might be a bad risk for a draft pick.
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I have no gripes with your post. Understand my posts are defending it, just showing the other side in a way.
 
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