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David Carr the best thing for the Texans?

kastofsna said:
btw, i don't think there's any reason to insult a guy who still likes Carr. he WAS a nice guy, and while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster, etc etc. and it's not as easy to point to the 2-0 record now and say that it's clear that the biggest difference is Carr. no, the defense is playing better, the o-line is playing better, the special teams are playing better, the coaching is better...and why not? they have more experience now. it's not all on Carr.
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As expected, kastofsna has probably the most intelligent post in this thread. Thank you for considering everything that is involved in a football team, not just the QB.
 
Texan Asylum said:
IMO, I think Carr's problem is that under pressure, he just couldn't see the field and make a determination of what to do under pressure. In college, you play against comparative players on average, with the occasional exception regarding NFL caliber players. In the NFL, you're playing against the college's 'cream of the crop'. The level of play is stepped up dramatically, and the transition needed to make those judgment calls is ramped up dramatically. I don't think he had it in him to play at this level.

Again, all this is of my opinion...
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Texan Asylum. You win the cupie doll. That is a good, no a great post, and shows exactly why Carr sucks. He was good enough in college in a subpar football conference but once he made the jump to the NFL he was woefully short on smarts, ability, moxie, and most importantly, work ethic/preparation.

I can't think of any other NFL team that would have drafted him or Joey Harrington #1 overall. It was a obviously a poor year for QBs but McNair and Casserley felt they needed to force a 'franchise' QB down our throats. Asserley is gone and McNair learned his lesson. Just sit back and sign the checks, Bob. You aren't that smart in regards to football. Now that he has gotten out of the way he has admitted he screwed up and is now staying out of the way...and what do you know....we are now competitive.

I <3 my Texans!!!

well back to work....
 
I can't believe this is even a real discussion.

Who cares if he was the main problem or the whole problem.

The point is that he was part of the problem.
 
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.
 
real said:
I can't believe this is even a real discussion.

Who cares if he was the main problem or the whole problem.

The point is that he was part of the problem.
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indeed. the guys who are saying Carr wasn't a problem at all are illogical, and the guys who are putting all the blame on Carr are logical.

i think the real reason the Texans are turning it around is the draft. look at all the very good contributions that are being made from the last two draft classes. and they're only getting better this year. the 2007 draft class is looking pretty solid right away, too. compare that to the two draft classes prior. ouch.

i put most of the credit for the new Texans in the new management and coaching, moreso than Schaub, who i feel is a franchise QB. but Schaub with the old coach and management wouldn't have faired that greatly either.
 
Texan_Bill said:
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.
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Oh, I completely agree. This is the problem I have been having when I try to have an intelligent debate. People aren't willing to listen to what I have to say, but rather, they assume that I am apologizing for Carr in some fashion, and I get knocked around for it.

I am trying to talk about the offensive line. IMO, we never had the tools at LT or RT to properly enable David to stay on his feet and avoid the shell-shock that he suffered.
 
kastofsna said:
btw, i don't think there's any reason to insult a guy who still likes Carr. he WAS a nice guy, and while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster, etc etc. and it's not as easy to point to the 2-0 record now and say that it's clear that the biggest difference is Carr. no, the defense is playing better, the o-line is playing better, the special teams are playing better, the coaching is better...and why not? they have more experience now. it's not all on Carr.
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umm, who cares if he was a nice guy? how in the hell does this enter the equation. i am a pretty damn nice guy too. i am a little past my peak at 37 years of age but I have all the measurables that an NFL team would look for in a QB. 6'5" 270ish, good arm, pretty healthy, would have to quit smoking though..(love handles...damn you Blue Bell!!!). Will you cheer and support me after 5 years of bad QB play too? If so, I may have chosen the wrong career path.....if you thought 2-14 was a bad year, put me behind center....ill make you pray for the days of 2-14. :) I would make Carr look like Unitas, but I would be nice....so I guess I would be all good in your book.

in the NFL its about winning. its not about family. its not about faith. its not about hair. its not about looks. its not about smiling for the camera. its about WINNING. period. end of story. Carr was a loser. FACT. Schaub is putting up good numbers with same squad + Ahman Green...oh AND he is winning. Wake up.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
umm, who cares if he was a nice guy? how in the hell does this enter the equation. i am a pretty damn nice guy too. i am a little past my peak at 37 years of age but I have all the measurables that an NFL team would look for in a QB. 6'5" 270ish, good arm, pretty healthy, would have to quit smoking though..(love handles...damn you Blue Bell!!!). Will you cheer and support me after 5 years of bad QB play too? If so, I may have chosen the wrong career path.....if you thought 2-14 was a bad year, put me behind center....ill make you pray for the days of 2-14. :) I would make Carr look like Unitas, but I would be nice....so I guess I would be all good in your book.

in the NFL its about winning. its not about family. its not about faith. its not about hair. its not about looks. its not about smiling for the camera. its about WINNING. period. end of story. Carr was a loser. FACT. Schaub is putting up good numbers with same squad + Ahman Green...oh AND he is winning. Wake up.
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all i'm saying is, i can understand why people would still like the guy and support him wherever he goes.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
Oh, I completely agree. This is the problem I have been having when I try to have an intelligent debate. People aren't willing to listen to what I have to say, but rather, they assume that I am apologizing for Carr in some fashion, and I get knocked around for it.

I am trying to talk about the offensive line. IMO, we never had the tools at LT or RT to properly enable David to stay on his feet and avoid the shell-shock that he suffered.
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I am going to go along with you in your response to my previous post and say that you are right, we didn't have sufficient blocking from the LT and RT positions. Some of those sacks could have been nullified with a more fortified o-line. But what about the sacks that could have been avoided if he would have dropped back from under center with his back foot instead of immediately starting into his side step with his front foot which led to being stepped on by the center? How about the times that he stood in the pocket for too long while the line was providing good protection and the pocket simply folded as they all do? How about the times that he retreated from the pocket and ran out of bounds for a loss which is automatically recorded as a sack?

It may not be completely fair to throw Carr under the buss but it certainly isn't fair to assume that it was all the o-line. The mistakes that Carr made were mistakes that he made over and over again, o-lines tend to fold on occasion and that just a fact that you have to deal with. Bad decision making by a 5 year veteran quarterback is not a fact we were willing to deal with.

My $0.02
 
kastofsna said:
all i'm saying is, i can understand why people would still like the guy and support him wherever he goes.
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I like Andre Ware but let's face it...it wasn't the Bengals line. it was Andre Ware who couldn't handle the NFL. A great College QB, nice guy...but lousy NFL QB and I know why Bengal fans don't like the guy....but football message boards are about football...and as with his brother Carr, he sucked.
 
Texan_Bill said:
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.
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TB. Your cool in my book.....even though you used to homer :)
 
Exithios said:
I am going to go along with you in your response to my previous post and say that you are right, we didn't have sufficient blocking from the LT and RT positions. Some of those sacks could have been nullified with a more fortified o-line. But what about the sacks that could have been avoided if he would have dropped back from under center with his back foot instead of immediately starting into his side step with his front foot which led to being stepped on by the center? How about the times that he stood in the pocket for too long while the line was providing good protection and the pocket simply folded as they all do? How about the times that he retreated from the pocket and ran out of bounds for a loss which is automatically recorded as a sack?

It may not be completely fair to throw Carr under the buss but it certainly isn't fair to assume that it was all the o-line. The mistakes that Carr made were mistakes that he made over and over again, o-lines tend to fold on occasion and that just a fact that you have to deal with. Bad decision making by a 5 year veteran quarterback is not a fact we were willing to deal with.

My $0.02
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I completely agree with you. David Carr folded under pressure. That is just a fact of life. Whether his tendencies were a product of bad offensive line or vice versa is up for debate. The fact is, though, by last year.... he was completely shell-shocked.

I am not placing all the blame on the offensive line, or any other part of the team. But I will not say that David has been the problem all along. We never had the talent at tackle to handle the pass rush.
 
Vinny said:
I like Andre Ware but let's face it...it wasn't the Bengals line. it was Andre Ware who couldn't handle the NFL. A great College QB, nice guy...but lousy NFL QB and I know why Bengal fans don't like the guy....but football message boards are about football...and as with his brother Carr, he sucked.
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I think you are thinking about Klingler from Cougar High. He was drafted like #8 by the Bengals. Ware was drafted by the Lions like #7-#10 or something. Long time ago and during my beer-n-bong addled college days.

argument works either way though.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I think you are thinking about Klingler from Cougar High. He was drafted like #8 by the Bengals. Ware was drafted by the Lions like #7-#10 or something. Long time ago and during my beer-n-bong addled college days.

argument works either way though.
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Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
I completely agree with you. David Carr folded under pressure. That is just a fact of life. Whether his tendencies were a product of bad offensive line or vice versa is up for debate. The fact is, though, by last year.... he was completely shell-shocked.

I am not placing all the blame on the offensive line, or any other part of the team. But I will not say that David has been the problem all along. We never had the talent at tackle to handle the pass rush.
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There have been QB after QB come into the league and get the snot knocked out of them. Plunkett, Aikman, S. Young, Manning, etc. etc. They don't curl up like a pillbug the first sight of a Dlineman, do they?

The Texans are 2-0 for the first time and I'm at the edge of my seat while watching the game for the first time in a few years. It makes me giddy having no idea what play we're running next.

Screw Carr! I'm pissed I even posted in this thread.:pirate:
 
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:
 
I think David hurt our lines development.

He's had a lot of bad tendencies since day one. In fact I can't really come up with one area of Carr's game that he improved upon since entering the leauge.


"I was getting tired of the situation, I was just like..let someone else deal with it" tells me all I need to know about David...That means that he's either lying or he had given up on himself and the team way before he had gotten cut...

That is a quitters attitude...I can not support a quitter in any avenue of life, let alone one of the things I'm passionate about--football.


Forget about the mans on field production as the reasons for his piss poor play are debatable...

The only thing that is certain is that he didn't have what it took off the field to be successful on the field...A quitters attitude, poor leadership qualities, self pitty...The guy had the attitude and self awarness of an overweight 3rd grader...

David was a good guy.

But honestly, How many times did we hear David take blame for his poor play ?


The only way you can tell who has a legit "winners attitude" is to lose.


We were losers and the real winners showed their faces. And the losers, well...they got dressed in a hurry and got the hell outta dodge....
 
Vinny said:
Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.
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I thought Ware had some talent but with Klingler it was obvious that he was a product of the system. the whole Pardee/Jenkins regime at UH put out a bunch of stats but beat no one of consequence and put garbage QBs into the NFL....kinda like Tedford does...oh wait Carr is a tedford system QB....

surprise surprise

your point is well put in stating that all 3 guys sucked and were miserable in the NFL. putting up 600yards and 5Tds against a community college is one thing, doing it in the NFL is a different thing altogether.

small colleges put out good players and in some cases even good QBs...but very rarely happens when the guy comes into the league with hype and anointed a starter...most have to pay their dues and actually earn their spot. Carr was too busy being Mr.All-American family man to do any real work. ok back to work.
 
beerlover said:
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:
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I think that's where the argument comes in.

Your implied premise is that David Carr was the reason that the Texans sucked so bad.

He was part of the reason, but it wasn't all his fault.

You'd have to include Casserly, Capers, McNair, Victor Riley and every other bust and sorry football player we've ever had.
 
beerlover said:
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:
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a half a decade of losing?....looking too hard to find a bright spot in the Carr decision I see. It's almost like praising your cured ingrown toenail by reveling in the decision to chop off your leg.
 
Vinny said:
Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.
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you can't ignore the common theme that they were all drafted by teams that really sucked, too.
 
kastofsna said:
you can't ignore the common theme that they were all drafted by teams that really sucked, too.
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So did the Colts...but then again, Peyton is an elite player as opposed to Klingler, Ware or Carr. Let's just face the fact that when your elite players who soak up the most cap hit sucks...your team will tend to suck. It's really not much deeper than that.
 
also look at the teams and how they were managed before and after those players were drafted. look at the players Bill Polian drafted to put around Manning, it's insane. obviously Manning is great no matter where he is, but you can't just fault the QB's for sucking.

and i wouldn't put Carr in that Klingler/Ware category. he was never so awful as to warrant being released almost immediately such as with Ware. yes, he probably deserved to be benched here and there, and you can fault the coaches for that, but Carr was routinely "below mediocre," as opposed to the other guys who were dropped hard and fast.
 
kastofsna said:
also look at the teams and how they were managed before and after those players were drafted. look at the players Bill Polian drafted to put around Manning, it's insane. obviously Manning is great no matter where he is, but you can't just fault the QB's for sucking.

and i wouldn't put Carr in that Klingler/Ware category. he was never so awful as to warrant being released almost immediately such as with Ware. yes, he probably deserved to be benched here and there, and you can fault the coaches for that, but Carr was routinely "below mediocre," as opposed to the other guys who were dropped hard and fast.
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Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...One great player at QB can do that in football. Ask Elway too.

If Bob McNair didn't have some unnatural love for DC he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did here. Bob had no clue...and it was obvious. Carr would not have lasted that long with any other Franchise...you can tell that by the fact that when he was a Free Agent without any compensation no team wanted him to start for them. Nobody.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
It is worth it to me to understand why the general public believes that our offensive line was not the problem.
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I have not read any takes that David Carr was the only problem with this team for the first five seasons. I'm not sure where you keep reading this, but I've never seen it even from the hardcore Carr haters.

However, many people have stated that the line was the sole responsibility for David Carr being a horrible QB (Matter-of-fact, most "experts" said Schaub would have a tough time here because of the offensive line).

Can you see the difference? We got rid of one player, who nobody wanted as a starter, and kept the members of the "worst.line.evar!", and you think the line was the biggest problem?

There really is no point in dissecting the first five seasons. The net result is still the same.

kastofsna said:
while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster,
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So tell me, Mr. NFL, how horrible a defense is when we win a game in spite of -5 (negative five) total passing yards? Can you name any good QBs with that kind of game in their history?

And again, I repeat: Nobody is blaming everything on David Carr.
 
Vinny said:
Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...
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What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.
 
Lucky said:
What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.
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I think he might win 'the sore loser of the week award'. Geez, he acted like a complete baby during and after the game.

I'm told that after the game, Young put on another display, throwing his helmet, ripping off his uniform and pads. I know from being down there he was a baby in the news conference. Short answers. Defensive. Just can't handle the heat, I guess. At least it wasn't as bad as last year here at the RCA Dome, when I learned after the loss he took a football cleat and stuck it into a locker room wall.
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http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/

OK, back on topic. Eh..nevermind:gun:
 
BTW, not to turn this into a VY thread but it is funny because after the game Sunday Dunta had a quote in the paper about how Schaub kicks tail and it made them..he and the defense want to go out there and kick tail. Later he repeated the sentiments.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3636

“Even when things weren’t looking good, he never dropped his head,” cornerback Dunta Robinson said of Schaub. “He talked to the offensive guys to keep their heads up. He came to the defense to apologize for that early turnover…It was something that we’d never seen. We knew from that point on that we had a chance to win. Like I said, it’s great to have a leader like that. The only emotion he shows is positive emotion.”....


“We’re more unified,” Robinson said. “The offensive guys believe in the defensive guys, and the defensive guys believe in the offensive guys. It forces us to come out and play for each other. You don’t want to let the guys on the other side of the ball down, and they feel the same way about us.”
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So how was it that people last year were scoffing that having VY play made the Titans D step up in some games despite their horrible ranking?

As to the subject at hand. We have the exact same line and a different QB yet the system is running well. We could see it work with Rosenfels last year. Carr got beat early in his career and the line was not good but so did alot of guys like Aikman. Carr stopped improving and pretty much was just as much to blame the last few years as the line and anyone else. If every QB was good despite a line, none of them would be out of the league. The guy didn't hack it here and didn't put in the work. We came out the winner now.
 
Double Barrel said:
So tell me, Mr. NFL, how horrible a defense is when we win a game in spite of -5 (negative five) total passing yards? Can you name any good QBs with that kind of game in their history?
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you can't find any HORRIBLE QB's with that kind of game in their history. that was a once in a lifetime thing, how can you even bring that up? i never said he was good, and i never said the defense was so bad they gave up a thousand yards every game, we're talking on a week-to-week basis throughout the time Carr was in houston. jeez.
 
Lucky said:
What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.
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the two years prior they won 9 (9-26 to be exact from 2004 to when VY got his first start) games total and many (including you) called them worse than the Texans leading into last season. They were 8-8 last year and one game from the playoffs. Vince Young hasn't won anything....yet, but I'm 43 years old and been watching the NFL since the early 70's and I'm still waiting on my first Super Bowl for Houston.....I know how it goes when it comes to not winning anything....yet. I do know special players when I see them though. Homer goggles be dammed.
 
Vinny said:
Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...One great player at QB can do that in football. Ask Elway too.

If Bob McNair didn't have some unnatural love for DC he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did here. Bob had no clue...and it was obvious. Carr would not have lasted that long with any other Franchise...you can tell that by the fact that when he was a Free Agent without any compensation no team wanted him to start for them. Nobody.
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your preaching to the choir Vinny. Carr would have lasted AT THE MOST 2.5 years in ANY other franchise. McNair wanted to be all touchy feely and kept making excuses for his mimbo QB...and alot of the sheeple fans fell in line. it was fans like myself and Vinny that were like 'WTF, why is this guy still here? This guy is horrible.'

bottom line is that BM admitted that he was a dumbarse and let RS make the decisions...shortly thereafter Carr was sent packing. Too bad RS couldnt have been hired a year earlier. We wouldnt have picked up Carr's option and would probably be in better shape now with a better QB in place whether that be Schaub, VY, Garcia, etc.

Carr sucked and anyone who says differently is totally clueless and blinded by Carr's bangin' hair.
 
All this debate concerning Carr and the defending of his abilities is simply silly.

The evidence is plainly staring us in our "2-0" face. Never has this team, and our OL/QB combination in particular, looked this good. Those who continue to argue otherwise appear to be doing so just to justify there positions on Carr in the past. I'm one of the biggest Carr homers there is (was), but I can plainly see the difference his departure, and subsequent replacement in Schaub represents.

Jump on board fellow and former Carr homers, the koolaid is GREAT!!! :cool:
 
Texan Asylum said:
All this debate concerning Carr and the defending of his abilities is simply silly.

The evidence is plainly staring us in our "2-0" face. Never has this team, and our OL/QB combination in particular, looked this good. Those who continue to argue otherwise appear to be doing so just to justify there positions on Carr in the past. I'm one of the biggest Carr homers there is (was), but I can plainly see the difference his departure, and subsequent replacement in Schaub represents.

Jump on board fellow and former Carr homers, the koolaid is GREAT!!! :cool:
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Well said!!If people can't see the difference between what Rosenfels did in one game behind this line last year/what Schaub has done this year compared to Carr in the pocket and the line, then they are ignoring the facts just so they won't have to eat crow. Listen to any Texan interviewed now and you will see a team that expects to win. Read my quotes by Dunta on the previous page and it is all you need to know.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
TB. Your cool in my book.....even though you used to homer :)
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:bat:

LMAO... I was never a Carr :homer: , I always took the position that I would have liked to have seen Carr with different coaching.. Thats why I wanted to give him one year with Kubiak. Well I got about half to three quarters of the way through last season and gave up.... AND THEN there was the New England game (to add insult to injury). As far as the O-line, while not stellar, I think the proof is in the pudding by looking at Schaub's performances....
 
Second Honeymoon said:
bottom line is that BM admitted that he was a dumbarse and let RS make the decisions...shortly thereafter Carr was sent packing. Too bad RS couldnt have been hired a year earlier. We wouldnt have picked up Carr's option
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Yes, but do you really think it would have taken him that long? didn't Casserly depart shortly after the 06 draft? then the Broncos gave permission to speak to RS, hence his hiring a month later? I feel after the 05 season if they could have contacted & signed RS Casserly would have been gone prior to the draft process & the Carr extension things would have been a whole lot different.

Second Honeymoon said:
and would probably be in better shape now with a better QB in place whether that be Schaub, VY, Garcia, etc.
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everyone, including Vinny needs to let go of Vince Young he is a Titan now & there is not a hell of a lot any revisonist can do about it now. I for one am happy to have Matt Schaub as the QB of the Houston Texans, not to mention Mario Williams is gonna kill Manning this weekend (figuretively speaking) & do a whole bunch more damage before his career is finished as a Houston Texan :cowboy1:
 
Texan_Bill said:
:bat:

LMAO... I was never a Carr :homer: , I always took the position that I would have liked to have seen Carr with different coaching.. Thats why I wanted to give him one year with Kubiak. Well I got about half to three quarters of the way through last season and gave up.... AND THEN there was the New England game (to add insult to injury). As far as the O-line, while not stellar, I think the proof is in the pudding by looking at Schaub's performances....
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Yeah I was one of those that said under Kubes, things would be different. The only thing I have ever defended or I should say went off on was the personal attacks.

Anyway Stomp the Colts!!


:fans: :texflag: :d:

:specnatz:
 
I have to say that I think it's never a good thing when you have the first overall pick in the draft and you blow the call. Whether you pick a guy who ends up busting or take a player who doesn't fit what you're trying to do or where your team is in it's development makes no difference. If you trade out and don't get at least reasonable value it makes no difference.

The David Carr pick set the Texans on a path that took 6 years to get straightened out and in the process altered subsequent drafts to complement and support the mistake.

In the end it's nice to know what went wrong but it's less important than simply recognizing that something was wrong and making the change needed to correct it.
 
beerlover said:
everyone, including Vinny needs to let go of Vince Young he is a Titan now & there is not a hell of a lot any revisonist can do about it now. I for one am happy to have Matt Schaub as the QB of the Houston Texans, not to mention Mario Williams is gonna kill Manning this weekend (figuretively speaking) & do a whole bunch more damage before his career is finished as a Houston Texan :cowboy1:
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I don't need to let go of anything...I just comment on the game I love and enjoy. I'm not running around lamenting about wanting Young over Schaub....I don't really get into homer stuff and don't think I need to apologize for typing what I think about the players I think are good.
 
beerlover said:
...
if not for David Carr the Texans would not have still been selecting 1st overall 5 years latter, hence no Mario Williams. thanks david...
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Selecting first again, and David looks back just a little...

(tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top)
Brian T. Smith &#8207;@ChronBrianSmith
... (the tackle) was cut and we'd bring in another guy."

Good 'ol days of #Texans: Carr - "We'd sign a (left tackle), he's starting. We'd go play Jevon Kearse in Tennessee and it was bad. Then ...

Casserly and Carr recently spoke. Casserly told Carr #Texans didn't do things right in Carr-era and team, QB paid price. #NFL

David Carr said first era of #Texans started behind 8-ball and never moved ahead. "I'm 22-years-old and I'm having to lead the team."

Carr added: "You have to have a coordinator that knows what he's doing," referring to what it takes for first-round QBs to succeed in #NFL.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

David Carr on time with #Texans: "If you're going to spend the money on a franchise quarterback, you've got to keep him on his feet."
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The problem with Carr's biatching about his offensive line is that his last season here he was sacked a ton and the next season, behind the same offensive line, Schaub was sacked far less and was way more productive than Carr was. Carr didn't put in the work required to be a good NFL QB and he has only himself to blame. Yes, the o-line stunk but I think he made it look way worse than it really was because he sucked so bad.
 
My favorite part?
David Carr said first era of #Texans started behind 8-ball and never moved ahead. "I'm 22-years-old and I'm having to lead the team."
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Add this to the list of quotes you'd never hear from Andrew Luck.
 
Last in, first out is what I'll remember most about 'that' era. Whether it was due to poor mentoring/coaching, he hurt himself as much as the team did. His final couple years were an absolute mockery of the NFL QB position. Running OB behind the LOS (sacking himself), throwing bullets at cameramen and cheerleaders and the infamous fetal position were also staples from 'that' era.
 
Wonderful, more DC talk.

Synopsis of a career:

Drafted #1 overall then was thrown to the wolves too soon, behind a sub-par line, while being directed by the ultimate quarterback killer Chris Palmer. Had great promise from an athletic standpoint, but never reached potential. Team fault or player fault? Either can be justified. He made too many mental mistakes, but how much of a mind did he have left after the beating he took? Also perceived to not be passionate or committed to the game, but more involved in faith and family. Good traits, unless you play football apparently.

Bottom line - he has a ring and the Texans don't.
 
kingtexan said:
Wonderful, more DC talk.

Synopsis of a career:

Drafted #1 overall then was thrown to the wolves too soon, behind a sub-par line, while being directed by the ultimate quarterback killer Chris Palmer. Had great promise from an athletic standpoint, but never reached potential. Team fault or player fault? Either can be justified. He made too many mental mistakes, but how much of a mind did he have left after the beating he took? Also perceived to not be passionate or committed to the game, but more involved in faith and family. Good traits, unless you play football apparently.

Bottom line - he has a ring and the Texans don't.
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Who gives a crap that he has a ring he didn't earn? The Seahawks K, P, and LS have rings too. At least they got on the field and earned theirs.
 
TheIronDuke said:
The problem with Carr's biatching about his offensive line is that his last season here he was sacked a ton and the next season, behind the same offensive line, Schaub was sacked far less and was way more productive than Carr was. Carr didn't put in the work required to be a good NFL QB and he has only himself to blame. Yes, the o-line stunk but I think he made it look way worse than it really was because he sucked so bad.
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I thought he was put in a bad situation, but he handled it well, very well the first couple of years; 2002, 2003. Dude impressed the crap out of me with his toughness.

I don't think he sacked himself any more than any other 1st or 2nd yr NFL QB during that time. My problem with David was that midway through the 2004 season, it looked like he gave up. Just said, "Fk it. I'm not going to get killed for this crap."

At that point, there were two things he could have done. He could have quit, like he did. Or he could have stepped up his game, to another level. It's possible that he had tried to get to that other level the first half of that season & just couldn't, then he's got no other choice but to protect himself.

I fault the Texans more than anything for not seeing that. As soon as his game became more about self preservation, he doesn't need to be on the field. & if he hadn't inspired that team to win after 2 and a half years, if he hadn't established himself as the team leader by then, it's time to move on.

I know we argued here about whether he was a leader or not, but it shouldn't have been a question in his third season. & the Texans should have known. Looking at how his career has turned out since, I can't imagine I was wrong about what I thought of him at that time... & the Texans should have known.
 
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