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Patriots Fined: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

I don't believe the players should be held liable either, but what about the Jets players? Maybe they were cheated out of a victory? I realize that's a stretch, but they are victims of a team that cheated, even if some may claim the Patriots didn't need to do this to beat the Jets. I'd like to see across the board sanctions imposed on the Patriots, from draft picks, salary cap limitations, and the game recorded as a tie. The NFL is a product we all wish to have and portray the utmost integrity.
 
NFL teams have been stealing signals from their opposition for years and years. It is nothing new. They send scouts to the other teams practices, get game film of the other team to study. Why do you think the OC holds the play card over their mouth when giving the QB the play? So the opposing team will not have someone that can read lips telling them the play.

How long does it take to take the video of the signals, analyzise it and get the info to the coach so he can get it to the QB? Are you going to analyize it at halftime and make adjustments? They have people taking poloroids of the field, regular game film, etc to make adjustments at halftime.

Think the NFL wanted to stop this techno stuff and decided that a team at the top would be a good one to start with so they picked the Pats to make a statement. Or they want to have the defensive players with a radio helmet and this was a good way to get it passed as it was 2 votes shy a little while ago.

The Pats may lose a draft pick or 2 - but they usually have them stockpiled and the coach may be suspended.

Don't get your panties in a wad about Belichek as he is not the only team in the NFL to do something like this. He is just the one that was caught first.
 
National_Security_Agency_seal.png


Official Electronic Surveillance Provider of the New England Patriots
 
This brings up some issues that I think would be a good discussion topic for tomorrow. I think I will throw this one out there:
Midnight is the hour when men desperately seek to obey the eleventh commandment, "Thou shalt not get caught." According to the ethic of midnight, the cardinal sin is to be caught and the cardinal virtue is to get by. It is all right to lie, but one must lie with real finesse. It is all right to steal, if one is so dignified that, if caught, the charge becomes embezzlement, not robbery. The Darwinian concept of the survival of the fittest has been substituted by a philosophy of the survival of the slickest. This mentality has brought a tragic breakdown of moral standards, and the midnight of moral degeneration deepens. M.L.K.
 
StarStruck said:
This brings up some issues that I think would be a good discussion topic for tomorrow. I think I will throw this one out there:
Midnight is the hour when men desperately seek to obey the eleventh commandment, "Thou shalt not get caught." According to the ethic of midnight, the cardinal sin is to be caught and the cardinal virtue is to get by. It is all right to lie, but one must lie with real finesse. It is all right to steal, if one is so dignified that, if caught, the charge becomes embezzlement, not robbery. The Darwinian concept of the survival of the fittest has been substituted by a philosophy of the survival of the slickest. This mentality has brought a tragic breakdown of moral standards, and the midnight of moral degeneration deepens. M.L.K.
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Amen!!
 
The rules on this are clear - no electronic recording devices on the field - and they violated them. If you cheat, you pay the price.

They caught him during the game, so I think the punishment should be fitting. All points that were scored by the Pats prior to Mr Sneakyman's ejection should be erased from the scoreboard. The game should also be recorded as a loss for the Patriots. If the points removed prior to the camera ejection do not result in a Jets win, then the game is still recorded as a loss for them.

As for their Draft picks, the loss of their first round pick should be forfeited.

ESPN said:
1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
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I am brainstorming here, I would think it is like poker.
way it should be
when playing a hand, learn tendencies and such from the opponent and you capitalize on that and they capitalize on you

,but when you throw a video camera on each others hands, it takes some of the guess work out of it and you can see the hands


And in terms of football.. I mean if you happen to know what kind of defense they are running ..helps you pick a play that narrows the gap on what type of play to run that can guarantee success.(players still have to make the reads)..and with electronics, it makes it that much faster to know and what can increase the chances of "good" plays
 
Apparently SOME photographic equipment is allowed however...

Often you see on TV right after drives the QB looking at a series of overhead photographs of the formations/plays just used.

So, you can have photographic equipment, you just can't have it focused on the bench on the other side.
 
According to a source, the league will definitely take a first-day draft pick away from the Patriots, perhaps a first-round selection, the most valuable annual commodity any team owns in terms of replenishing its roster.

In addition, Goodell is seriously considering a multiple-game suspension for Belichick, which would bar him from attending New England's games or practices, and force him to stay way from the Patriots' team complex in Foxboro, Mass., for the duration of the suspension. In addition, Belichick would forfeit any paychecks he was due while the suspension was in effect.

The NFL is said to be trying to balance out the punishment equitably between the Patriots as an organization and Belichick personally. The league's rationale behind not just stripping New England of multiple draft picks and foregoing a suspension is the recognition that Belichick could leave the organization at some point in the near future, and thus not suffer the full consequences of the penalty as much as the franchise and the next Patriots coach would.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/09/13/belichick/index.html
 
I think they should make the Patriots wear sissified pink uniforms, lacy socks and the word "CHEATERS" on their helmets.

............And oh yeah, call them for holding on every play.

And make it a two game penalty.
 
Not that harsh at all. I thought I'd be worse.

Final ruling
By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff
Here is the final ruling from the NFL:


Bill Belichick has been fined $500,000 by the NFL.


The Patriots have been fined $250,000 by the NFL.


The Patriots will give up their first-round pick in 2008 if they make the playoffs. If they don't make the playoffs, they will surrender second- and third-round picks.


Belichick will not be suspended.

“This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,” Commissioner Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.
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http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/
 
I don't really know what I was expecting

but doesn't seem like much of a fine

Goodell said he had considered suspending Belichick but didn't "largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."
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I don't know about that,Pats are a pretty deep team and not sure if one first rounder is going to hurt them long term. They have a really good plug-n-play system up there
 
doesn't really hurt NE.. they have San Francisco's #1 also so they lose one of their #1's next year
 
For one to say every one does it, is stupid, The pats got busted and that is that. They should be made the example and make it count. The entire coaching staff should be banned from the NFL. The team should be fined $100,000,000 so it hits the owner in the face for allowing it to go on. I personally think it should be $700,000,000 and if it not paid then the franchise goes to LA or whoever gets the priviledge. This is not something that should be taken lightly, It teaches your kids that it is ok to cheat for christ sake. It is wrong and the people that it should affect is the owner and the coaching staff. When you hit them hard the Fans will hit them too. The Pats are the only franchise to ever get caught and they had this same problem in Green Bay and Miami in the past. They are guilty as sin and they deserve anything and everything they get plus more.
 
the patriots just got owned by Goodell. losing a first round draft pick is disastrous and will send a message to the Patriots and the rest of the NFL that this type of subterfuge is unethical and costly if caught.

i cant stand Bill so I am glad this is happening..serves him right.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
the patriots just got owned by Goodell. losing a first round draft pick is disastrous and will send a message to the Patriots and the rest of the NFL that this type of subterfuge is unethical and costly if caught.

i cant stand Bill so I am glad this is happening..serves him right.
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no. they have two first rd picks.
 
Elle I think comparing someone who cheated in sports to someone who betrayed this Country is a bit harsh, don't you think.

Joe I do not understand why you would want to punish the football fans in Boston for, they did not do anything wrong. Yes Bill should have been suspended for about 4 or 5 games but to make it to where the owner can not afford the team and or goes into the poor house does not serve a purpose.

Like I said I think the penalty should be harsher. The Patriots are getting off way to light.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
the patriots just got owned by Goodell. losing a first round draft pick is disastrous and will send a message to the Patriots and the rest of the NFL that this type of subterfuge is unethical and costly if caught.

i cant stand Bill so I am glad this is happening..serves him right.
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I disagree--Goodell didn't pwn anyone. He basically told them to write "I will not cheat" 25 times by the next day.

As has been said they have 2 first round picks, and 250,000 is nothing. Especially if you think they have been cheating for a long time and it contributed to their success.

Disappointing.
 
Elle said:
Exactly! Thanks, N.O.

How many rings did he and Golden Boy get by ripping off the other guys?

Godell was a wuss on this call. A Really Big Wuss.
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I have no idea how deep it goes. It's hard not to be paranoid. I don't know if it got buried in the other thread, but Dr. Z from SI had an article that quoted Mike Martz who was talking to Marvin Lewis. Martz said he remembered being in NE having a good drive when all of a sudden the radio unit stopped working and he lost direct communication with the QB. Lewis said the same thing happened to him.

that on top of the reports of strange radio signals coming from the Pats, with this, makes me suspicious. Maybe they knew even more than we think. Maybe not.

I think Goodell just wants this to go away. More digging wouldn't be good for the NFL right now. But if his goal is to get people to shush (not Mario's celebration), he's going about it the wrong way. It seems most folks perceive this as unfair and too light, so the questioning will continue.
 
You guys are making this way more serious than it really is. Teams have been stealing signals from other teams for decades. The scouts job is to steal signals. Why do you think they cover their mouths when they talk to the QB, so the opposition can't read their lips.

There are a lot of plays, that this old grandmother who never played football knows what the defense is going to do.

Is it wrong - yes
Are the Pats the only team doing it - no
Is the penalty harsh enough - probably not

But penalizing a team 700 mill is a bit of overkill. Having the fans lose their team by moving it to another city - well we sure didn't like it. Banning the coaches doesn't serve any purpose either - how many coaches are you going to ban, Crennel, Mangini also - as they were part of the Pats.

If Mangini was that much against it, why did he not speak up sooner while he was on the Pats staff or last year when he had left. No - he waited til they were playing him.

In the end, even if you know what the defense is going to do, the players still have to make the throw, make the catch, miss the tackles, the oline still needs to block. Then you defense needs to stop the other team. Winning or losing a game is still up to the players on the field, not the coaches.
 
Word is after seeing Rocky IV, the Pats have decided to implement a new espionage device, disguised as a helpful robot to be anonymously delivered to every other team in the league.

robot.jpg
 
Grams said:
You guys are making this way more serious than it really is. Teams have been stealing signals from other teams for decades. The scouts job is to steal signals. Why do you think they cover their mouths when they talk to the QB, so the opposition can't read their lips.

There are a lot of plays, that this old grandmother who never played football knows what the defense is going to do.

Is it wrong - yes
Are the Pats the only team doing it - no
Is the penalty harsh enough - probably not

But penalizing a team 700 mill is a bit of overkill. Having the fans lose their team by moving it to another city - well we sure didn't like it. Banning the coaches doesn't serve any purpose either - how many coaches are you going to ban, Crennel, Mangini also - as they were part of the Pats.

If Mangini was that much against it, why did he not speak up sooner while he was on the Pats staff or last year when he had left. No - he waited til they were playing him.

In the end, even if you know what the defense is going to do, the players still have to make the throw, make the catch, miss the tackles, the oline still needs to block. Then you defense needs to stop the other team. Winning or losing a game is still up to the players on the field, not the coaches.
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Great post.

It's not about teams stealing each others signals. It's about the Patriots violating the rule book that specifically mentions video cameras. I'm fine with the punishment fitting the violation in the NFL's eyes.

It's a very interesting sociology study to watch the witch hunt among media and fans, though. I've heard some pretty angry demands as harsh as a lifetime ban on Belichick. It's like the dude killed their kitten or something.
 
Elle said:
Yet it's ok that all he is tossed is a fine and a draft? The ass should be banned.

If Vick is banned for dogs, why not ban Bell-a-Chick for cheating to win Rings?

Seems a bit off sided if you think about it.
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Sure, pleading guilty to federal felony charges and attempting to gain an unfair advantage are exactly the same.
 
Heath Shuler said:
Sure, pleading guilty to federal felony charges and attempting to gain an unfair advantage are exactly the same.
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Another one of looking at it is conduct heinous but unrelated to football yielding an indefinite suspension (probably 2 years), and conduct that directly calls into question the integrity of the game equaling a fine that is large in raw amount but paltry in the sense of its impact on the assessed. The pick is significant but they do just so happen to have 2 in the first round, so no huge deal.

the biggest fallout to the Pats is not the official action of the NFL, but rather the loss of prestige in many fans' eyes, and a slackening of the media worship they are used to getting. sunday night football will be interesting.
 
Noblesse Oblige said:
The pick is significant but they do just so happen to have 2 in the first round, so no huge deal.
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Whether or not they have 2 next year is irrelevant--they gave up something to have the 2nd 1st round pick. This is like people who walk into a casino with $100 get up $400, lose it all and tell people they lost $100--BS, you lost $500.
 
Elle said:
Yet it's ok that all he is tossed is a fine and a draft? The ass should be banned.

If Vick is banned for dogs, why not ban Bell-a-Chick for cheating to win Rings?

Seems a bit off sided if you think about it.
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Any excuse to try to make a Vick isn't so bad argument I guess.

If they can ever prove there was cheating in other games there may be additional penalties. Right now they are being penalized for what they have been proven wrong in--one game.
 
infantrycak said:
Whether or not they have 2 next year is irrelevant--they gave up something to have the 2nd 1st round pick. This is like people who walk into a casino with $100 get up $400, lose it all and tell people they lost $100--BS, you lost $500.
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if I was reading it right, they had 2 number 1's this year(Seattle's #24 and 28) ..traded the 28th pick for sf's 4th rounder of the same year and got SF's #1 rounder in 2008
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/?p=1164

so they basically they lost deon branch (who they got for Seattles #1)


just for conversation sake.
 
However you look at it you are losing a 1st round player. It is better to have Merriweather and Staley than have Merriweather or Staley. Taking a 1st round talent away is losing the same thing regardless of whether you are supposed to get 1 or 4.
 
Grams said:
You guys are making this way more serious than it really is. Teams have been stealing signals from other teams for decades. The scouts job is to steal signals. Why do you think they cover their mouths when they talk to the QB, so the opposition can't read their lips.

There are a lot of plays, that this old grandmother who never played football knows what the defense is going to do.

Is it wrong - yes
Are the Pats the only team doing it - no
Is the penalty harsh enough - probably not

But penalizing a team 700 mill is a bit of overkill. Having the fans lose their team by moving it to another city - well we sure didn't like it. Banning the coaches doesn't serve any purpose either - how many coaches are you going to ban, Crennel, Mangini also - as they were part of the Pats.

If Mangini was that much against it, why did he not speak up sooner while he was on the Pats staff or last year when he had left. No - he waited til they were playing him.

In the end, even if you know what the defense is going to do, the players still have to make the throw, make the catch, miss the tackles, the oline still needs to block. Then you defense needs to stop the other team. Winning or losing a game is still up to the players on the field, not the coaches.
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Could not agree more. The collective *GASP* from the national media and NFL is ridiculous. Does anyone actually beleive that cheating does not go on all the time in sports? There is way to much money involved for cheating not to go on. Heck, how often do we hear about High School kids taking steriods, for crying out loud!

Those of you who think this is such a big deal need to get off of your high horse. The Patriots got caught, which sucks for them. They were punished for it. End of story, IMO.

P.S. For you Eagles, Panthers and Rams fans who want your teams to be rewarded a Super Bowl victory, well, your team(s) are cheating as well, so get over it.

BTW, I am a Texans fan.

:texflag:
 
infantrycak said:
Have you tried out that argument with the cop when he pulls you over for speeding. Good luck to you.
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Your exactly right. That argument would not work in getting out of a speeding ticket.

That argument also did not work in this case either. Belichek was caught, and he and the Patriots have been punished.

My point that there is to much, IMO, fake shock and astonishment that an NFL team would stoop to cheating to get an advantage. To me, some of people commenting on this are casting stones while living in glass houses.
 
gjmac2 said:
My point that there is to much, IMO, fake shock and astonishment that an NFL team would stoop to cheating to get an advantage.
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I agree that the ban him for life, this is worse than Vick crowd are going overboard. Losing a 1st round pick or a 2nd and 3rd are pretty darn steep IMO. These folks are acting like not having Ryans and Winston on the team would be no big deal.
 
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