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Patriots Fined: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

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ESPiN Article

NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.


The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said.

"We don't have any comment," an NFL spokesman said Monday.

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game.
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Wow, they did this lst year in Green Bay....:shades:
 
HUGE deal. If they were using video cameras to spy on opposing coaches you can expect a SEVERE draft pick penalty possibly a 1st Rounder.
 
If this is true, they lose a lot of credibility within the league and stand a huge chance of isolating "fans" like me who aren't die hard Patriots fans, just an average joe who enjoys watching them play now and then. They have a good team, no need to resort to classless actions such as that, but I shall wait to judge until all the facts are set straight.
 
HJam72 said:
Yeah, this kind of thing is starting to look bad for them.
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Read further into the story.. the SAME cameraman also had his camera and film taken away from him for doing the same thing at the Green Bay game last year.

Another thing-- the story talks about radio issues... at the Buffalo-New England game last year, the Buffalo coaches complained of "interference" in their link from the coaches box to the sideline last year..

Couldthe Pats been tapping the links?
 
OK please explain to me how the Patriots could be messing with the communication between the coaches box and the field in the Meadowlands of all places. If it was Foxboro I might be able to see it but at someone elses stadium?

Sounds like the jets are making excuses on this one.
 
Specnatz said:
OK please explain to me how the Patriots could be messing with the communication between the coaches box and the field in the Meadowlands of all places. If it was Foxboro I might be able to see it but at someone elses stadium?

Sounds like the jets are making excuses on this one.
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Maybe making an excuse.... but it isn't difficult to jam the radio frequency that goes from the Box direct to the quarterback's helmet.

If the coaches are in close adjoining boxes, all you have to have is a something transmitting on a very close frequency.
 
If there is any validity to this, the Commissioner better throw the book at the Pats.

Any hand slaps will have other teams following suit.
 
Koolaid Time said:
Read further into the story.. the SAME cameraman also had his camera and film taken away from him for doing the same thing at the Green Bay game last year.

Another thing-- the story talks about radio issues... at the Buffalo-New England game last year, the Buffalo coaches complained of "interference" in their link from the coaches box to the sideline last year..

Could the Pats been tapping the links?
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They were simply using the Patriot Act...oh wait that wasn't made for their use. Oops. Sorry Belichick.
 
JohnsonFan said:
i as have always told ppl and still will say the pats have no class
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Yes, they're truly a classless organization, top to bottom. :yawn:

Thing is, we may want to wait until the NFL makes an announcement of some kind on this one, no?

Last year, the Pats were accused of the same thing in Green Bay. Nothing happened as a result. This whole thing was instigated by members of the NY Jets security staff. The league has had the tapes for two days and haven't levied any punishment yet. Doesn't that tell you something?

And even if they are guilty, my understanding is that the penalty is forfeiting a mid or low-round draft pick. Usually the sentence serves the crime -- so the fact that there are no suspensions or fines involved should tell you how the league feels about this sort of "egregious" offense. All teams do it in one way, shape, or form. The Pats might have gotten caught. Simple as that.
 
It's the American way these days. Do it until you get caught and then cry like a baby that the other guys are doing it.
This kind of thing disgusts me.
 
More interesting reading on the Pats' "Get Smart" antics....

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1030707&format=text

"For a window into the Patriots' tactics, multiple Packers sources provided a fascinating account of what happened in the 35-0 victory last Nov. 19. A man identifying himself as a Patriots employee asked a security guard if he could shoot footage of Lambeau Field before the game, and permission was granted. Just before the game, he requested to stay on the sidelines to record quarterback Tom Brady for the coaching staff. However, he was soon spotted filming the Packers defense and signaling Patriots coaches. A member of the Packers security staff witnessed the exchange and asked him to leave. He retreated to the tunnel, continued filming, and appeared to be communicating with the coaches via hand signals before being escorted off the field. Asked why the Patriots weren't reported, a Packers executive suggested there was a code of silence regarding such matters, particularly after a blowout. "It bothers you that it's cheating," he said, "but it's not the reason they kicked our (butt)." It's interesting to note a pair of comments after that game. The first came from Packers corner Al Harris, who praised the Patriots coaching staff. "It's almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?" he said. "You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don't know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he's pretty good."

Shifty.

I guess my question is: How common is this really? Or do I want to know?

:backsout:
 
GoPats said:
Yes, they're truly a classless organization, top to bottom. :yawn:

Thing is, we may want to wait until the NFL makes an announcement of some kind on this one, no?

Last year, the Pats were accused of the same thing in Green Bay. Nothing happened as a result. This whole thing was instigated by members of the NY Jets security staff. The league has had the tapes for two days and haven't levied any punishment yet. Doesn't that tell you something?

And even if they are guilty, my understanding is that the penalty is forfeiting a mid or low-round draft pick. Usually the sentence serves the crime -- so the fact that there are no suspensions or fines involved should tell you how the league feels about this sort of "egregious" offense. All teams do it in one way, shape, or form. The Pats might have gotten caught. Simple as that.
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Guilty; link
Sources: Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals
ESPN said:
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, league sources have told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.

The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.
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Oh yeah, severe action is warrented. Take'em to the wood shed Goodell.
 
I cannot believe this. Wow, what an embarassment for the Patriots, their coaches, and their fans.

The NFL should immediately suspend Bellicheck for the season, and make them forfeit their first game. It should go on the schedule as a tie with the Jets


If swinging games by being a ref is lifelong banning
And if simply BETTING on games is a life long ban

Then shouldn't intercepting and relaying all the signals of the opponents, which is clearly cheating, be similarly punnished??

If I was a Jets fan, I would be PISSED OFF
 
KJ3 said:
exactly. maybe they were worried?

all i know is that i didn't like belichick before...and now this? i hope the pats are treated the way they deserve, multiple draft pick forfeits (ones that reeeeeeally matter, 1st day picks) and suspensions. if belichick is responsible for this i gotta say he's out for the year. it's one thing to be watching the opposing sidelines and maybe pickup a signal or two during a game but to film and study their signals? wow...makes you wonder how long they've been doing it...
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What happens to picks they traded away? I thought I remember them trading a pick away in this last draft for one in the 08' to move up the board. If they traded a 1st rounder, what happens to it if it gets forfeited? Do they then still have to give it to the other team, then lose an equal amount of other picks that equal the same amount of points? This may have been covered or I may be reading too much into this. Just curious, that's all. Regardless, I hope they get what they deserve. I always thought they were a class act team and I am more disappointed than anything.
 
It is an interesting question as to how the traded draft picks will be dealt with, if that punishment ends up happening.

Belichick is one of those "do whatever it takes" to win guys. I love his style and his vast football knowledge, but I wouldn't want to him to be my head coach. His ethics have never been ideal.
 
This is really dumb IMO....

Simple solution: Have two guys giving signals...One guy giving dummy signals and one guy giving the real call...Have them stand right next to each other so whoever is getting the signal is looking in one central location...If you want to really keep them on their toes, have three coaches, with two giving dummy signals...

In between every series let the MLB--or whoever is doing the playcalling in the huddle--know which coach is going to be active and which coach(es) is the dummy...

Just switch it up...It's really not that hard...

Opposing team wont know what signals are real and which ones are fake...

If my high school coach was smart enough to do this surely the guys in the NFL can figure this one out...
 
They should forfeit the win.

Barry Bonds said the Pats could borrow this for the record books on the '07 season: *
 
But wait, it gets even better....

Electronic Surveillance....

From ESPN:

"The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game."

Bug on the Jets sideline perhaps?


Here's the Pats new logo:

Patriotsnewlogo.jpg
 
This is all over the MB at NFLUK.com, with Pats fans getting defensive and everybody else having a dig!

This is the sort of tactic used on the battlefield and has no place in sport, imho.

High-Tech, devious cheating is still cheating, and, to me "Everyone does it" smacks of Nuremburg!

Also, word over here is that the cameraman is the same bloke that the Packers escorted out of Lambeau - want to bet that he pops up in footage from other stadiums last year, should someone choose to check!?

Sheds a new light on Brady's proven ability to read a 'D', doesn't it!?

Tsk, tsk.:challenge
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3015478

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick apologized to his team on Wednesday and confirmed that he has spoken to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell about his "interpretation" of league rules that ban videotaping of the opposing sideline.



It was not clear what Belichick was apologizing for, and the coach repeatedly refused to elaborate on a one-paragraph statement issued 10 minutes before a regularly scheduled news conference to discuss Sunday night's game against the San Diego Chargers.
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Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
 
Koolaid Time said:
But wait, it gets even better....

Electronic Surveillance....

From ESPN:

"The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game."

Bug on the Jets sideline perhaps?


Here's the Pats new logo:

Patriotsnewlogo.jpg
Click to expand...

Radio frequencies could mean it extends to spying on offense, too. It could explain why they are so good at halftime adjustments.

Craziness. All wild speculation so far, but it could run deep.
 
Double Barrel said:
Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
Click to expand...

In baseball, the unwritten rule is stealing signs with the naked eye is fine--but recall the big stink made when there are allegations of using electronic means such as a camera. that's the difference here too.

using cameras, video equipment, and maybe stealing radio signals is a lot different than talking to a former teammate or observing on the sidelines.
 
Double Barrel said:
Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
Click to expand...

The difference between what you mention and this is the fact that you have a cameraguy on your sideline filming your coaches making calls. If the Pats want to steal calls from their side of the field, then fine by me, but you can't have a cameraman filming it from your side of the field. Stealing calls with the naked eye is one thing...even binoculars, but filming it is another thing IMHO.
 
Double Barrel said:
Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
Click to expand...

It's different knowing of potential plays than it is of knowing of a play as it is being run.

When you boil everything down it's either a run or pass; blitz or regular coverage. Everyone has that in their playbook. The golden knowledge is knowing when exactly those plays are called.
 
Well, there goes that genius tag for Belichick, LOL.

In all seriousness though, With what they've done over the last couple of years, i would have to see a meltdown of epic proportions to believe that they had been doing this for a while.

I believe this brilliant idea popped in Belichick's head when Zach Thomas spilled the beans about the dolphins recording the audio of Brady's audibles. Belichick just went too far with it.
 
Mr teX said:
Well, there goes that genius tag for Belichick, LOL.

In all seriousness though, With what they've done over the last couple of years, i would have to see a meltdown of epic proportions to believe that they had been doing this for a while.

I believe this brilliant idea arose when Zach Thomas confessed to the dolphins recording the audio of Brady's audibles. Belichick just went too far with it.
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No amount of knowing the plays, etc., could have helped Vinatieri make those field goals. It could have made the situations in which they were meaningful possible, but you can't take that away from them.
 
Noblesse Oblige said:
No amount of knowing the plays, etc., could have helped Vinatieri make those field goals. It could have made the situations in which they were meaningful possible, but you can't take that away from them.
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Bingo, plus all those tough games before the superbowl & how Brady & the pats always seemed to have good ol' Peyton & the Colts' number.


& now Vinatieri is the chief reason why they won those championships & not Brady? That's been my opinion from the get go, but some people who watch too much espn........
 
Noblesse Oblige said:
In baseball, the unwritten rule is stealing signs with the naked eye is fine--but recall the big stink made when there are allegations of using electronic means such as a camera. that's the difference here too.

using cameras, video equipment, and maybe stealing radio signals is a lot different than talking to a former teammate or observing on the sidelines.
Click to expand...

atxcoolguy said:
The difference between what you mention and this is the fact that you have a cameraguy on your sideline filming your coaches making calls. If the Pats want to steal calls from their side of the field, then fine by me, but you can't have a cameraman filming it from your side of the field. Stealing calls with the naked eye is one thing...even binoculars, but filming it is another thing IMHO.
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PapaL said:
It's different knowing of potential plays than it is of knowing of a play as it is being run.

When you boil everything down it's either a run or pass; blitz or regular coverage. Everyone has that in their playbook. The golden knowledge is knowing when exactly those plays are called.
Click to expand...

Good replies, guys, and I truly appreciate the maturity of your responses.

Keeping with the devil's advocate angle (disclaimer so you know I'm not condoning what happened);

In today's day and age of sophisticated electronics, I think this tactic is going to become more prevalent. You can sit in the stands with a cell phone now and do the same thing. What is stopping a team from using their scouts - which all teams have to attend other games for advanced research of opponents - and syncing up video from a hand-cam or phone with game tape?

As much as we want to believe in honor and all that, the fact remains that the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. And the same way that Fortune 500 companies will do underhanded things to gain a competitive edge, it should not surprise us that sports teams and athletes might do the same. The gain at the end of the day is lucrative, so the incentive will be there.

But I do agree with all of you that a line was crossed when electronic surveillance was used by the Patriots. It just wouldn't surprise me if they aren't the only ones that have used this tactic.
 
Double Barrel said:
Good replies, guys, and I truly appreciate the maturity of your responses.

Keeping with the devil's advocate angle (disclaimer so you know I'm not condoning what happened);

In today's day and age of sophisticated electronics, I think this tactic is going to become more prevalent. You can sit in the stands with a cell phone now and do the same thing. What is stopping a team from using their scouts - which all teams have to attend other games for advanced research of opponents - and syncing up video from a hand-cam or phone with game tape?

As much as we want to believe in honor and all that, the fact remains that the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. And the same way that Fortune 500 companies will do underhanded things to gain a competitive edge, it should not surprise us that sports teams and athletes might do the same. The gain at the end of the day is lucrative, so the incentive will be there.

But I do agree with all of you that a line was crossed when electronic surveillance was used by the Patriots. It just wouldn't surprise me if they aren't the only ones that have used this tactic.
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I definitely agree with you in that it is very tempting, easy (ish) to do given technology, and probably common.

As for how serious the punishment is, I don't think it will be very. Not with the pats being the culprit. If it was, say, the Raiders or the Bengals or something like that, then it would probably be much more severe.
 
Double Barrel said:
Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
Click to expand...

DB, I'm going with some other folks here and saying that stealing signs is all good by me if you have a watchful eye or see a pattern but the viseotaping took it over the top. So I don't poopoo on the concept, just the methods.
 
Double Barrel said:
Good replies, guys, and I truly appreciate the maturity of your responses.

Keeping with the devil's advocate angle (disclaimer so you know I'm not condoning what happened);

In today's day and age of sophisticated electronics, I think this tactic is going to become more prevalent. You can sit in the stands with a cell phone now and do the same thing. What is stopping a team from using their scouts - which all teams have to attend other games for advanced research of opponents - and syncing up video from a hand-cam or phone with game tape?

As much as we want to believe in honor and all that, the fact remains that the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. And the same way that Fortune 500 companies will do underhanded things to gain a competitive edge, it should not surprise us that sports teams and athletes might do the same. The gain at the end of the day is lucrative, so the incentive will be there.

But I do agree with all of you that a line was crossed when electronic surveillance was used by the Patriots. It just wouldn't surprise me if they aren't the only ones that have used this tactic.
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Sophisticated equipment is something that is more and more common in today's world, but video cameras have been around for along time in Football and sports. On a side note, I remember seating so close at a Jags game last year, I could hear everything one of the defensive coaches was saying to the Dline. Those guys were right there in front of me.....and let me tell you Stroud and Henderson are some big dudes.
 
Double Barrel said:
Alright, devil's advocate for a sec...

Why is it "o.k." in baseball to try to steal signals, but not in football? I understand it's against the rules and unfair advantage and all that, but I'm strictly talking about principle here.

Teams and players have been stealing playbooks and signals for a long time. I remember hearing about it in the '70's as a Luv Ya Blue Oiler fan.

Isn't it an "unfair advantage" for Eric Moulds to go spill his guts about our offense to his new Titans team? What if he copied pages from our playbook and handed them off to Jeff Fisher? What if he gives them all he knows about audibles? (which he has probably already done) Where does that line get crossed?

I'm just curious about the double standard between sports. I'm not condoning it the behavior, but rather looking at it from a sociology perspective of why people think they way they do. Would anyone here feel different if the Texans were busted doing this?
Click to expand...

It'd be like smack manna from heaven given your record.:splits:

Seriously though I don't think it looks good for Goodell's NFL shield to see Belichicks so called dynasty exposed as a corruption racket like this.

Which is worse,players breaking the law or a whole team being branded as cheats. Personally I think Belichick's media unfriendly persona doesn't help him at times like this.I'd say punish him or else the teams fans suffer but at least they have trophies to soften the blow.Draft picks taken away would be fitting.
 
GoPats said:
Bunch of crap I spewed earlier.
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Well, guilty it is then. Punish 'em and let's move on. I admit I was 100% wrong about this, and am pretty shocked to tell you the truth. Depending on what Goodell does (which I actually think will be milder than most people want), and how the team does from here, the Pats would have to win two more SBs to erase any questions.

What's done is done. At least from here on out I'm pretty sure there won't be any more of this crap going on.
 
ChildressTitanMan said:
Seriously though I don't think it looks good for Goodell's NFL shield to see Belichicks so called dynasty exposed as a corruption racket like this.

Which is worse,players breaking the law or a whole team being branded as cheats. Personally I think Belichick's media unfriendly persona doesn't help him at times like this.I'd say punish him or else the teams fans suffer but at least they have trophies to soften the blow.Draft picks taken away would be fitting.
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yeah, good points. The best penalty that I've heard so far is the salary cap limitations. I don't think the players should be held accountable for what the coaches are doing, and forfeiting games/playoffs seems a bit steep.
 
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