S
SESupergenius
Guest
I contend it's a monumental mistake to let go of Carr if you are not getting anything in return for him or you havn't upgraded the position.
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Adam Schein: "Texans Shouldn't Give up on Carr now"
- Thread starter Texans_Chick
- Start date
Two things hurt our running game in '06. Poor line play, and trying to make Jameel Cook a blocking fullback. I expect the line to play better to start next season, & I expect to see Vonta as our starting fullback.
IF David Carr is the future of the Texans, we need to do what it takes to get AD...... or Marshawn....
But I don't understand your argument for a consistent running game. We ran for over 100 net yards in 6 of our last 8 games...... & you can throw in a seventh game, considering we had one rusher gain 99 yards in the season finale...... so that's really 7 of 8. & it's in those last 8 games, that David didn't perform. Failing to throw for 100 yards, in 3 of the last 8. Less than 200 in 6 of the last 8. & I don't know what the TD to INT ratio was, but it was pretty pathetic.
I mean, what exactly do you consider "consistent"??
edo783
Hall of Fame
I agree. The "Lets chuck the QB no matter what" crowd, might want to think that through a little better. And IMO, it isn't a "Or" stituation but rather its and "And" one. You better get something for him AND have a true plan (not just lets get rid of him) on board and the player actually available AND you had better have a real plan to improve the O-line and running game. You drop pretty much any one of those items and we will be screwed for another year.......again.
His younger brother looks more poised in the pocket than he does. Derek(I think that's his name) had a playoff game at The Rig (Pearland Stadium) and looked much smarter with the ball than David ever has during his pro career. David was up in the press box watching the game. I wish I could've been in there. "So, how does it make you feel that your younger brother is already out playing you in High School?"
Congratulations on completely eliminating your credibility with that comment.
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
Keep Carr and Draft Russell. Throw Carr out at the end of his contract. I have lost all hope and I do not know if I even care about this draft because they will find a way to screw this up.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Congratulations on completely eliminating your credibility with that comment.
LOL! I thought you'd like that. Look, you seem like an intelligent guy/gal. Why, may I ask, are you so high on DC? What has he done to earn the kind of credibility that some on this board give him? Sure the line has been porous at times, but what about the 100's of plays he does get time? He has WR's running wide open in front of him and he still doesn't get the ball to them. So why, why does he deserve ANOTHER chance?
Silver Oak
All Pro
Dang! Having a bad day?
Coming off what many consider to be our best draft, how do you figure they'll "screw it up"?
ib4texans
Waterboy
Do you really think Jake is going to sign a 1-2 year deal? It's highly unlikely,he'll want a 3-4 year minimum.
ib4texans
Waterboy
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
We passed on the "Michael Jordan" of football and do I have to bring up the past drafts.We never go after any decent FA and they never want to play here anyway.I am having a bad day because I keep seeing VY highlights and hearing ESPN say how the Texans fans will be cursed as long as VY is in the leauge. ESPN is now saying " How could you pass on VY???" when a year ago they were saying" I do not want to be the guy who passes on Reggie Bush.". What a bunch of morons! Even after the Rose Bowl, EVERYONE(THIS BOARD AND ESPN) believed Reggie would be better than VYand Matt Leinart .It just makes me sick!
I hope they do not screw this up.
Exithios
Waterboy
And this is why IF the Texans sign him it won't be until after the draft and possibly into training camp. I don't think anyone in the NFL will sign him for more than 2 years and that will cause Jake to drag it out until he just bites on the best deal on the table.
R
real
Guest
That's not true.
I don't know about ESPN, but there were a number of people on this board who wanted VY.
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
Sorry I was just lashing out at the USC people on this board who thought Reggie Bush was going to come here. They are long gone now.
ib4texans
Waterboy
I still say that Jay Cutler will be the most prominant QB from last years draft class. VY has great feet and can create when a play has gone bad. Cutler is a much better QB, that kid threw a 76 yard TD pass with no YAC. All air Jevon Walker caught the ball in-stride, inside of the end zone. VY is good I won't take that away from him,but that draft is done and over.
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
True! Brady Quinn will be a mistake even though he will be better than Carr in the long run.
R
real
Guest
I'm not sure why you highlighted my comments but we can discuss this.
Why does everyone get so excited about the 76 yard pass. How does that make him a better QB ?
R
real
Guest
And I think VY and Leinart are going to be the two best, and I don't think Cutler will do much.
ib4texans
Waterboy
I wasn't pointing out anything wrong with your post it. I only had your post because it referenced VY.
The reason that the 76 yard pass is mentioned is because of the arm strength and accuracy it displayed. He stepped up into the pocket and arced that ball right into his hands. You have to acknowledge for a rookie QB to have the poise to deliver that pass in stride and all air is something special.
I was also impressed with him against SD when he took the blow to the back of his head, Plummer came in and acomplished nothing except an interception.
In reference to your other post, if you think Lienart and Young will be better than Cutler that's OK it's your opinion. They both performed well on there respective teams. I just think over the span of their careers Cutler will be the one that stands out a little more. JMO
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
R
real
Guest
I am very impressed with Cutlers arm strength. I was also impressed with the way he performed in the pre-season. But this whole arm strength thing gets too much attention IMO.
What's so impressive about that ?
R
real
Guest
Neither.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
There is absolutely no way we will have a shot at Russel unless he shows up to the Combine 50 pounds overweight with a pulled hamstring, needles hanging out of his arms, and dragging his badly beaten girlfriend behind him by the hair.
Really. No shot.
ib4texans
Waterboy
That Cutler the rookie came back in and played, visibly disoriented and played his way back into the game.
I here people on this board all the time talking intangibles that's one of them.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think we just need to have a plan for moving forward and I don't think that plan should include Carr. I think his mind is broken and he's no longer salvageable. Anything we can get for him is a plus and almost anyone we start in his place will be an upgrade at the position.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
If he wants to sign with a team he can start for he will sign for about 2 years. Look at how we got stuck with Carr's deal after the 3 year option. In a fickle NFL market where teams change yearly there is no way someone will commit to him longterm unless it is a sweetheart deal that allows them to opt out.
R
real
Guest
To each his own I guess.
TwinSisters
Veteran
I get excited about it. The reason I guess is that you ( or not you, but a defense ) have to give more respect to a deep field with a QB that can hit one.
It creates more room to make plays in. If a QB is real erratic or cannot throw a deep pass that well or quickly, then as a defense a guy slipping the safties is not that big of a concern ( in effect, you can concentrate on or cheat towards the line ).
Major Applewhite is a good example. He couldn't throw a deep pass and this limited his ability and value as a QB.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I agree with your overall assessment but I thought Major threw a great deep ball. It wasn't deep as in arm strength deep but he hit a ton of those post patterns or seam patterns to guys like McGarity.
R
real
Guest
ib4texans
Waterboy
I'm not trying to say that he's better than BBQ, I'm just saying out of last years QB class he's showed the greatest long term promise.
I think nest year everyone is going to have VY figured out, hell we did for four quarters and then wiffed in OT.
TwinSisters
Veteran
nope. Not for the NFL. I get this from Belichick and an interview that Major did a few years ago. He lacked the arm strength to even be a 3rd stringer.
So he went into coaching.
R
real
Guest
This is what I don't get and what I find so amusing....
Going into college people said VY wouldn't succeed. I'd say he did o.k.
Going into the NFL people said he wouldn't succeed. Rookie of the year.
I'm not going to argue about VY anymore, because people used flawed logic when arguing against him. You think Cutler will get better, while the NFL "figures out" VY.
Questions: If Cutler can get better, why can't VY ?
If VY was, is, and has pretty much always performed better than Cutler what makes you think that it's going to change anytime soon ?
If the NFL is going to figure out VY, why can't they fiure out Cutler ?
ib4texans
Waterboy
In no way has VY always performed better than Cutler.
What does Vince do besides run the ball on third down? When in any of my posts did a slight Vince? None. I said that he and Lienart did well on there perspective teams. Of course Vince stood out for the Titans, no offense but they didn't have the same clout as the Bronco's. I didn't say Vince cant' get better, but what is he going to do if teams start to contain him? Name one game where his arm won the game for the Titans?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
He definitely didn't have an NFL arm to throw the deep outs, etc. I'm just saying in college he hit alot of the seam type passes where he just lofted it up. Those same throws in the NFL would be picked. I was talking pure college.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I could not agree more. I mean what does the guy have to do? In college they said he had no arm yet he improved and had the highest completion percentage his last year. Then people claim that teams can get by with guys hitting the underneath stuff ..like Manning did in the SB..yet it isn't good enough for him. Then he shows he can throw a pretty deep ball...did against us a few times..yet people still think he is just a runner. I'm not making foolish comparisons but people didn't figure out Steve Young or Staubach or others that liked to run. If the man can improve his throwing year by year then there is no reason he can't do what he has been doing because they will have to respect all things that he does. He showed marked improvement last year. I'm not going to go VY here and claim outlandish things. I just think people doubting him should sit back and learn by now.
ib4texans
Waterboy
If he does more than run and improves his passing he will improve and become an invaluable asset. He even did fairly well in the PB. Time will tell who has the edge out of last years QB class and I think all three will be something special in thier own way. Nuff said!
TwinSisters
Veteran
good call as usual.
I actually started typing about Vick in that same response, but backspaced it out after thinking about it a little. A deep ball throw is not the same as a running threat. There are too many differences in economy.
Vick's ability to break one does make his team better though. If for no other reason, it expands their running game by having a legit QB option. How reasonable is it to run your million dollar QB option is another debate. Mora didn't change it up any more than Ryan did for Cunnigham. ( but then Cunningham could throw a deep ball with accuracy and velocity, while Vick I am not so sure about )
The longer he signs, the longer we can stretch out any bonus we give him. We can cut him at anytime during that time..... but three years from now, he might be more opened to restructuring to a back ups contract.
So if we sign him for three years, $6 mil bonus, $3mil salary 1st year($4 mil second, $5 mil third) then we can cut him after the second year, and only have to worry about $2mil of dead money towards the cap.
If we sign him for two, with those same numbers, his cap hit will be more than what it would cost to keep David. With those numbers, it works out about the same as keeping David.
unless we can pull the ole rope-a-dope like they did to David with his $8mill bonus, two payments, half counted for the '05 & '06 season, then assign him as a June 1st cut & split his remaining bonus across the '07 & '08 season. That was freaking genius........ we save $5mil towards the cap by cutting him.
except they thought before hand, that he might be a casualty.
He threw for 270 yards in that game.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
That is what I (and incidentally many pro scouts) believed as well. Strongest arm and best/most potential as a passer.
VY is dangerous because he is a very good runner and decent to good passer rolled into one. However until he improves both his arm and the consistency of his reads I don't see him as being "elite."
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Against our secondary? No way!
Well I was wrong anyway, he only threw for 200 yards against us. the other 70 were running(1 for a TD). But the point is we didn't have him figured out in that game, & then wiffed in OT.
The Titans passed on us for 200 yards. Not to shabby, considering the second half of the year, we only gave up 217 passing yards per game. That includes holding Peyton to 205, Brady to 125, and only giving up more than 205 yards to Jacksonville & Buffalo in our last 8 games.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I can see a restructure as a backup but many don't like thaat. They all think they can start. Good info none the less. Thanks TK.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
With Vy all things open up b/c of his running ability, which it's no coincidence that that is what he does best. He's like any other Qb in that you have to force him to do things that he's not comfortable with. contain him along with the running game & you should be ok. Every game i've seen him struggle in, it's b/c the opposition was able to contain him from running all over the place.
Silver Oak
All Pro
In all fairness, Brady could have passed for 400 if they didn't have such a commanding lead early in the game. They went to running the ball primarily.
Trust me on this....he was my fantasy qb and I wanted more in that matchup!
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
I have said for some time that VY should pray every night and be thankful that the Texans didn't draft him. He wound up in the best place possible for him. He found a HC and a QB coach( one of the best in the business ) who were willing to adapt the team and play calling to his style of play.
The Texans drafted David and built a team around a style of play that is not compatible with his abilities. I have stated many times I did not know why the Texans drafted Carr in one sense. Capers wanted to run the ball and Carr was a passing QB. Even Kubiak's style really does not fit Carr and the team has never built an O-line capable of protecting the QB.
The zone blocking scheme was to take advantage of a good running game. Certainly DD fit into this scheme, but not David as the scheme is not ment to provide protection for the QB even when a pass is the called play. You can not use two different blocking schemes in the NFL and get away with it.
David and the Texans have been a bad marriage from the start. Too many words have now been spoken to ever reconsile the marriage. Folks, its over and thats all there is too it. I don't see anything on the horizon that will change that. It really is in David's best interest to go elsewhere. Management has so mismanaged the situation that it has gotten totally out of control. It all started with the VY thing last year and I said as much. David is simply not the kind of guy that's going to make waves, but you can bet he is taking it all in. I hope he finds peace where ever he goes.
The Texans drafted David and built a team around a style of play that is not compatible with his abilities. I have stated many times I did not know why the Texans drafted Carr in one sense. Capers wanted to run the ball and Carr was a passing QB. Even Kubiak's style really does not fit Carr and the team has never built an O-line capable of protecting the QB.
The zone blocking scheme was to take advantage of a good running game. Certainly DD fit into this scheme, but not David as the scheme is not ment to provide protection for the QB even when a pass is the called play. You can not use two different blocking schemes in the NFL and get away with it.
David and the Texans have been a bad marriage from the start. Too many words have now been spoken to ever reconsile the marriage. Folks, its over and thats all there is too it. I don't see anything on the horizon that will change that. It really is in David's best interest to go elsewhere. Management has so mismanaged the situation that it has gotten totally out of control. It all started with the VY thing last year and I said as much. David is simply not the kind of guy that's going to make waves, but you can bet he is taking it all in. I hope he finds peace where ever he goes.
yeah, AJ couldn't have done that for 31 other teams. His success in 2006 was all due to the QB throwing the ball.
riiiiiight
ib4texans
Waterboy
I'm not sure why it's not to shabby when VY does it but when our QB throw anything around the 200 mark he is criticized for minimal yardage?
I know your stance on Carr TK, and I know you did'nt mention him in your post. I was just commenting on the irony!
Dah, how do you think AJ made the pro-bowl, after leading the AFC in drops.. who threw the ball. Funny, the first couple of years David played.. the crying was about he threw too hard, and had too many int.'s. Of course there was the fact about poorest O-line was started without LT, poor protection. No change there after 5yrs. Now the best of the Carr haters are blaming poor line on Carr. He doesn't carry them, Dave is pulling his weight on team that doesn't give him protection, but keep asking him to adapt to changing coach's. Most haters are looking for the ball to be thrown down field, now the coaching doesn't want that.. so who gets the blame. Hey you believe in what you want. I hope you get your " QB " and I get too see Dave play with a better team...
...yeah, Kubiak wants Carr to 'dink and dunk' so he (Gary) can pay him top QB money and then gripe about the team not scoring!!