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If the Texans draft DL with their 1st pick...

David's Busted Carr

David's Busted Carr

Waterboy
You can consider Mario a BUST! Mario was drafted and PAID to be the STUD to anchor our line and make all the other players on the DL better. Thus you would not need to go break the bank and spent YET another 1st round pick (TJ and Babin) on another high priced DL.

I read in the Chronicle how getting pass rush would be a priority this offseason AGAIN. So what did Mario do for you? Apparently not enough. Especially not enough to justify where he was drafted....

And will his damn foot problems ever go away? It was a lingering problem ALL YEAR long stating with his toe and then his foot. Is this going to plague this guy his whole career or what? Did the Texans not do research on his injury problems?
 
I disagree.

I think Williams had a pretty good year for a rookie. Players develop at different speeds in this league. He didn't have Peppers type sack totals, but he put pretty good pressure consistently.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
You can consider Mario a BUST! Mario was drafted and PAID to be the STUD to anchor our line and make all the other players on the DL better. Thus you would not need to go break the bank and spent YET another 1st round pick (TJ and Babin) on another high priced DL.

I read in the Chronicle how getting pass rush would be a priority this offseason AGAIN. So what did Mario do for you? Apparently not enough. Especially not enough to justify where he was drafted....

And will his damn foot problems ever go away? It was a lingering problem ALL YEAR long stating with his toe and then his foot. Is this going to plague this guy his whole career or what? Did the Texans not do research on his injury problems?
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His foot problem will go away, but I agree with you on some levels.If they do draft a Dl this year, then they are sending messages that they are Unsure of Mario in the future. They are not sure he will be getting the 12 sacks he was supposed to be getting. Imagine if we do ge a Dl, they will comparing the Texans with the Lions, when they drafted a reciever three years in a row.
 
Silver Oak said:
I disagree.

I think Williams had a pretty good year for a rookie. Players develop at different speeds in this league. He didn't have Peppers type sack totals, but he put pretty good pressure consistently.
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He had a good year if he was a third rounder but not a first overall pick.
 
not true at all. ask bill belichick. he loves spending high picks on DLmen. why? it all starts up front. he wants the best players there. if you can get more great players there, it's not a bad thing at all.
 
If you do draft DL it doesnt mean Mario was a bust. It means we are upgrading from Anthony Maddox and the other has beens and never Wazs that play DT right now, and Jason Babin at DE if we go there.

I will take Gaines Adams over Babin any day. Keep in mind we pick #8 and when it is our turn we could possibly be going best player available.
 
kastofsna said:
not true at all. ask bill belichick. he loves spending high picks on DLmen. why? it all starts up front. he wants the best players there. if you can get more great players there, it's not a bad thing at all.
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Yeah, but the Patriots have Tom Brady!!!!!! and the patriots usually have a late first rounder where thers alot of good DL, but not many of the so-called playmakers. I'm not saying that picking DL's is bad, cause the games are won in the trenches, but the Texans are ending up with top ten picks, they can get other players that suit other needs. They already got Mario last year.
 
I think if they draft a DL you can say that Travis Johson and Jason Babin were busts. They have to undo 4 years of bad drafting so there will be many positions that get re-drafted and hopefully the players this time around will be good ones. I'm still miffed about that stupid 3-4 defense and trying to plug in rookie DE's at OLB. That plan was doomed from the coin flip.
 
Due to the injuries on the DL Mario was doubled teamed almost every time. If you watched the games you could see that he was getting the push into the backfield most of the time. I believe it was the Buffalo Def. Coor. who said that they and other teams are already game planning for Mario, so that doesn't sound like a bust to me.
 
It doesn't mean Mario Williams is a bust. One man cannot control the line of scrimmage, just as 1 Olineman can not do it on his own either. Personally I don't want to spend another top 1st round pick on Dline because we have so much money tied up in the line now. Now if they want to go and draft a Dlineman in later rounds, I'm all for it.
 
Weird statement = Original post.

As for whomever brought up the Pats, I agree see the Bears pre and post Tommy Harris injury for another example.

Also the easy way to fix teh secondary is to develop a consistent pass rush.
 
That is a gross overstatement. That's like drafting a QB with the 1st, and then taking an OL the next year with the 1st and calling the QB a bust. Nobody can do it alone in this game. Every position on the field affects another position on the field and they all need help sometimes.

If Mario gets 4.5 sacks with absolutely no help from his DL, and we draft a DL in the 1st, I don't see it as Mario being a bust, I see it as Mario getting more than 4.5 sacks next year.

Anyways...Kareem Brown from Miami in the 3rd would make me really happy.
 
Silver Oak said:
I disagree.

I think Williams had a pretty good year for a rookie. Players develop at different speeds in this league. He didn't have Peppers type sack totals, but he put pretty good pressure consistently.
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Babin had more sacks then Mario and only played 25% of the time. but he is consider a bust.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
You can consider Mario a BUST! Mario was drafted and PAID to be the STUD to anchor our line and make all the other players on the DL better. Thus you would not need to go break the bank and spent YET another 1st round pick (TJ and Babin) on another high priced DL.

I read in the Chronicle how getting pass rush would be a priority this offseason AGAIN. So what did Mario do for you? Apparently not enough. Especially not enough to justify where he was drafted....

And will his damn foot problems ever go away? It was a lingering problem ALL YEAR long stating with his toe and then his foot. Is this going to plague this guy his whole career or what? Did the Texans not do research on his injury problems?
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HE IS ONLY 21!!!!!!!!!!!

Watch, he will be one of the best to play at his possition.
 
we go secondary with our first pick or OL .. I would think would be our first pick

now if we go DL I am ok with that.. how does that mean Mario is a bust? we play the 4-3.. Payne is getting long in the tooth and coming off of injury... TJ .. I am not sure about and Weaver is ok...

at picking 8th .. unless Peterson drops to 8th.. I hope to see an upgrade at CB or safety.(if Landry is there)
 
Alan Branch, Alan Branch, Alan Branch

330 lb dominant DT that we are missing. It helps the linebackers immensely by taking on a double each time. This guy is big, fast, athletic, and downright dominant
 
Hulk75 said:
HE IS ONLY 21!!!!!!!!!!!

Watch, he will be one of the best to play at his possition.
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Agreed, everyone develops at different speeds, the kid should still be in college. It was only his first year in the league, my rule is you cannot call someone a bust untill after their 3rd year
 
was385 said:
Alan Branch, Alan Branch, Alan Branch

330 lb dominant DT that we are missing. It helps the linebackers immensely by taking on a double each time. This guy is big, fast, athletic, and downright dominant
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From what I saw yesterday, and have played and am familiar with that possition...................

Plays hard against lesser opponents, more fat then muscle, did not see him much when they needed him in the 2nd half, needs to get in shape or stay that way but workout put on about 10 lbs of MUSCLE!
 
David's Busted Carr said:
You can consider Mario a BUST! Mario was drafted and PAID to be the STUD to anchor our line and make all the other players on the DL better. Thus you would not need to go break the bank and spent YET another 1st round pick (TJ and Babin) on another high priced DL.

I read in the Chronicle how getting pass rush would be a priority this offseason AGAIN. So what did Mario do for you? Apparently not enough. Especially not enough to justify where he was drafted....

And will his damn foot problems ever go away? It was a lingering problem ALL YEAR long stating with his toe and then his foot. Is this going to plague this guy his whole career or what? Did the Texans not do research on his injury problems?
Click to expand...


You are going to judge Williams a bust if this team decides to draft someone to replace two other guys that are bust? ( Well at least Babins is not suited for our defense, maybe bust is to strong for him).

But back to your logic, explain it to me. The Colts have 2 or 3 guys that bring the pass rush, so is Freeney a bust because they went out and got Mathis?

Get over your man love for VY and Bush. It is clouding your judgement. Williams is a stud, period.
 
We have alot of busts

AJ is a bust because we had to bring in E Moulds
Drob is a bust becuase we still need a FS
D Ryans is a bust because we still need a OLB.
 
Hulk75 said:
From what I saw yesterday, and have played and am familiar with that possition...................

Plays hard against lesser opponents, more fat then muscle, did not see him much when they needed him in the 2nd half, needs to get in shape or stay that way but workout put on about 10 lbs of MUSCLE!
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I disagree, he just pushed the center and guard back on almost every play and to me was the biggest reason that Michigan held opponents to like 40 yds rushing a game. He would put on more muscle if he goes pro, one of the things I have heard is that he has a great work ethic. He doesn't make a ton of tackles, but you see these huge holes open up and other DL men charging right through because he is taking on that double and still making his way through or just pushing the lineman back onto the RB. I think he stays though so wishful thinking. Henne, Hart, Long, etc. have already said they are staying and I think he stays also
 
Trenches said:
I think if they draft a DL you can say that Travis Johson and Jason Babin were busts. They have to undo 4 years of bad drafting so there will be many positions that get re-drafted and hopefully the players this time around will be good ones. I'm still miffed about that stupid 3-4 defense and trying to plug in rookie DE's at OLB. That plan was doomed from the coin flip.
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Where did Shawn Merriman & Demarcus Ware play as rookies??
 
What round is Amobi Okoye projected in? If he was around in the 2nd round I would love for the Texans to grab him. He looks like he could be the next Tommie Harris, athletic disrupting DT. Pairing him with Mario would send shivers up O-Lines spines.
 
thunderkyss said:
Where did Shawn Merriman & Demarcus Ware play as rookies??
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On good teams.

Last time I checked those were top of the draft board guys at their position. Plug an elite talent into a good defense and you have a chance. Plug an average player into a defense with other young players learning how to play and you get...well, Dom Capers 3-4 surprise.
 
Trenches said:
On good teams.

Last time I checked those were top of the draft board guys at their position. Plug an elite talent into a good defense and you have a chance. Plug an average player into a defense with other young players learning how to play and you get...well, Dom Capers 3-4 surprise.
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Seth Payne, Gary Walker, & Robaire Smith......... Kailee Wong...

wich young players are you talking about??

Merriman & Ware were both DEs plugged into 3-4 schemes as OLBs..... plans doomed to fail at the flip of the coin or however you put it.

& Ware was thrown in on a team just as young as ours(younger actually) the year they transitioned to a 3-4.

the players we picked may have been flawed. the coaches implementing the plan may have been flawed..... but the plan itself is the way it's done in the NFL.
 
was385 said:
Alan Branch, Alan Branch, Alan Branch

330 lb dominant DT that we are missing. It helps the linebackers immensely by taking on a double each time. This guy is big, fast, athletic, and downright dominant
Click to expand...

No he isn't. He got owned in the bolw game by an undersized C in Ryan Kailh. He was domminated at the POA and 1 good play in the first quarter aside, was held in check with ease. He didn't do much this season either if you watched the games or looked at his numbers. Neither did Leon Hall. They are just by-products of ESPN overhyping some guys they never watched before.
 
Buckle said:
What round is Amobi Okoye projected in? If he was around in the 2nd round I would love for the Texans to grab him. He looks like he could be the next Tommie Harris, athletic disrupting DT. Pairing him with Mario would send shivers up O-Lines spines.
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Late first to early second.

Okoye is more of a prototypical NT at this point. He is like 6'0 310. He plays low and is super strong. Young and could develop, but not a force against the pass.
 
was385 said:
I disagree, he just pushed the center and guard back on almost every play and to me was the biggest reason that Michigan held opponents to like 40 yds rushing a game. He would put on more muscle if he goes pro, one of the things I have heard is that he has a great work ethic. He doesn't make a ton of tackles, but you see these huge holes open up and other DL men charging right through because he is taking on that double and still making his way through or just pushing the lineman back onto the RB. I think he stays though so wishful thinking. Henne, Hart, Long, etc. have already said they are staying and I think he stays also
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I disagree. He has good size yes, but he can't use it to his advantage. He doesn't push the pile like he should. IF he is double teamed at all, it is because Michigan runs a 3-4 and there is an OG w/nobody head up on him to block so he is able to slid over and help. He is not worth where he will go at all. The difference in talent between him and Okoye, Bryant, Mebane, Harrell, Dorsey, the Miami DT...it's just not that much at all, and certinally not enough to warrent where he is projected to be picked.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Late first to early second.

Okoye is more of a prototypical NT at this point. He is like 6'0 310. He plays low and is super strong. Young and could develop, but not a force against the pass.
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He looked like a pretty disrupting force late in tonights game. And he is what....19 yrs old? He and Mario would anchor our D-line forever and I immagine could turn into one of the nastier duos in the NFL.

I liked W.Gays' play tonight at CB as well!! What's your report on him YTF?
 
SLO Texan said:
He looked like a pretty disrupting force late in tonights game. And he is what....19 yrs old? He and Mario would anchor our D-line forever and I immagine could turn into one of the nastier duos in the NFL.

I liked W.Gays' play tonight at CB as well!! What's your report on him YTF?
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I'll get back to you tommorow. I clocked out at like 11:15 and have to watch the game tommorow. He has been decent this year, but I can't say I've gotten to see much Louisville this year in Houston. I have some coaches tapes from last year, but I'll review it all tommorow.
 
I have the game TiVo'ed. I'm really looking foward to LSU routing ND though.

Look for Ryan Harris OT from ND, Glen Dorsey DT from LSU, Russell from LSU, Landry LSU, Vincent (I believe is the right name?) from LSU, The DE from ND who's name I'm not going to butcher right now.

There are more guys, but those are the big names to look for.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
If the Texans draft DL with their 1st pick...You can consider Mario a BUST!
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Most ridiculous statement I have ever heard! There are 4 guys on the line and they are the foundation of your defense. Mario is the only long-time prospect we have on the line. One man does not make a D-line.
 
OK, let me rephrase my statement then.

You take a player as the #1 OVERALL player in the NFL draft. Then he is supposively THE BEST player coming out of college that year.

That player should be a LEADER, a PLAYMAKER, and a DOMINANT player at his position.

I don't see Mario as any of those things. Sure he's made a few plays here and there, but you cannot tell me he was a leader, a playmaker, or dominant at all.

I'm not saying that we don't need more good D lineman. But to go invest another 1st round pick (which the most valuable commodity you have to improve your team) on that position AGAIN would be a joke.

It is keeping us from improving other areas that need improvement such as OL and our secondary.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
OK, let me rephrase my statement then.

You take a player as the #1 OVERALL player in the NFL draft. Then he is supposively THE BEST player coming out of college that year.

That player should be a LEADER, a PLAYMAKER, and a DOMINANT player at his position.

I don't see Mario as any of those things. Sure he's made a few plays here and there, but you cannot tell me he was a leader, a playmaker, or dominant at all.

I'm not saying that we don't need more good D lineman. But to go invest another 1st round pick (which the most valuable commodity you have to improve your team) on that position AGAIN would be a joke.

It is keeping us from improving other areas that need improvement such as OL and our secondary.
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Its not like drafting a RB two years in a row. There are 4 spots on the DL. Mario is just one man on a 4 man line. That is like saying Walter Jones was a sucky LT if he played on our line and we drafted OL first round. Or Julius Peppers was a sucky DL if we drafted DL a year after getting him (Oh how I wish we got him in 2002) :stirpot:
 
David's Busted Carr said:
OK, let me rephrase my statement then.

You take a player as the #1 OVERALL player in the NFL draft. Then he is supposively THE BEST player coming out of college that year.

That player should be a LEADER, a PLAYMAKER, and a DOMINANT player at his position.

I don't see Mario as any of those things. Sure he's made a few plays here and there, but you cannot tell me he was a leader, a playmaker, or dominant at all.

I'm not saying that we don't need more good D lineman. But to go invest another 1st round pick (which the most valuable commodity you have to improve your team) on that position AGAIN would be a joke.

It is keeping us from improving other areas that need improvement such as OL and our secondary.
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If it's a joke then i'll be laughing at you when our D-line starts to collapse pockets & holes better & faster than any year we've had the Texans in town.

Say what you want, but football games are won in the trenches with big uglies & more specifically, on the defensive side of the ball. I wouldn't be as opposed to the texans taking a DL again in the 1st RD like you unless somehow AD/JT/Landry fell to us. but like i said to myself last year after i initially got over the pandemonium of them passing on RB/VY/ML :bomb:, I just want to see some direction with our draft. And after last year's compared to the one's previous, i am in "in gary i trust" mode.
 
kastofsna said:
not true at all. ask bill belichick. he loves spending high picks on DLmen. why? it all starts up front. he wants the best players there. if you can get more great players there, it's not a bad thing at all.
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Exactly, I guess Richard Seymour was a bust since NE spent a first round pick on Ty Warren after that. They are both DTs. Why on earth would a team want two talented DTs?
 
^ and then Vince Wilfork....That D-Line must suck...

I think what he is getting at because Mario Williams was the #1 overall pick he MUST do ALL in his first Season....

Lets go back a few years and see what players have done in thier first year

2006- Mario Williams- Solid, yet not spectacular in any way
2005- Alex Smith- First year, proved nothing, was talked about being a bust, this year has MUCH improved
2004- Eli Manning- Took over for Kurt Warner half way through the season....didnt fare well but had a solid 2nd season but hasnt yet proven anything consistantly
2003- Carson Palmer- First year didnt play....has shown that he is the real deal in 3rd and 4th seasons

Does anybody else see the trend? Number 1 overall picks dont regularly make an immediate impact...they are on the WORST team in the league the previous year(unless of trade)..... a player must be given time to be evaluated and not bashed after his first year in which he played with pain when he could have just taken games off and counted his $$$
 
the Oilers were a joke when they drafted Munchak,Mathews and Steinkuhler .. in the first round :sarcasm:
 
Well I'll yeild to beerlovers top ten. He obviously has a guy targeted in the second at DT. What I will say about Mr. Branch's play the other night, he was continually triple teamed. Count 'em up YTF. In my mind, if the guy gets anything close to this kind of attention on the NFL level, Weaver and the troll's bust are going to wreak havoc and let slip the dogs of war in '07. They got to have one preimere DT out of this off season. If they can't get the o-line fixed they better have a top ten d if we're going any where next season.
 
thunderkyss said:
Seth Payne, Gary Walker, & Robaire Smith......... Kailee Wong...

wich young players are you talking about??

Merriman & Ware were both DEs plugged into 3-4 schemes as OLBs..... plans doomed to fail at the flip of the coin or however you put it.

& Ware was thrown in on a team just as young as ours(younger actually) the year they transitioned to a 3-4.

the players we picked may have been flawed. the coaches implementing the plan may have been flawed..... but the plan itself is the way it's done in the NFL.
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Um, yeah. I guess thats why it failed and why I'm saying its a bad idea. Bad players, bad drafting, relying on rookies learning new positions. Maybe other players have made an impact on other teams but I'm pretty sure the topic was the TEXANS. There is no debate than when they started cutting veterans and relying on rookies that the defense went to hell.
 
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