Kubiak still optimistic

[Runner]

can the texans go back to the offense they had back in 04, the year they went 7-9. i'd give anything to have that back.

It would be simple - just two steps:

1) Go back in time
2) Make sure Joe Pendry is never a Texans coach

 

[Goatcheese]

=HOU-TEX]Through the first 4 games the Oline gave up 15 sacks and we rushed for 312 yards.

The last 4 games the Oline gave up 14 sacks and we rushed for 496 yards. So having said that, has the Oline gotten worse? I think so, but it can be argued both ways.

The number of sacks doesn't tell the whole story. We threw downfield more in the first few games, and Carr had to wait for routes to develop leading to more sacks. The line has gotten alot worse without spencer, Wiegert, and Flannagin. Well, mayby not Wiegert. The ammount of time Carr has to make a read and get the ball out is much lower now.

And Bad WR play, translates into bad QB play....

If the recievers are dropping alot of passes then yes, it's going to affect the QB.

Bad RB play translates into bad QB play.....

It can limit play calling and allow defenses to focus on stopping the passing game.

Bad OL play translates into bad RB play.....

Too true. Running backs are potentially more reliant on o-line perfomance than a QB.

That's right....everyone is to blame for Carr's poor performance.............except Carr of course....

Carr deserves alot of the blaim for his performance because he played very poorly. The O-line also deserves alot of blaim.

Just because I don't spam every thread on the boards with ignorant "CARR SUCKS FIREHIMNOW!!!1!!" BS doesn't mean I don't see his failures. There are enough people already doing that, so I focus on less discussed topics.

Bledsoe played in 5.5 games, and was sacked 16 times. had he played in 12 games that would work out to be 36 sacks.

Romo has been sacked 9 times, in 6.5 games. had he played 12 games, that would work out to be 16 sacks.

Carr has been sacked 34 times in 11.5 games. had he played in 12 games, that would work out to be 36.......

The Cowboys line is about as bad as ours in pass protection.

you've got to be the biggest David Carr homer not to see that.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I could just as easily say that those numbers mean carr would have only been sacked 16 times playing 12 games behind the cowboys line and bledsoe would have been sacked 72 times in 12 games playing behind our line. They're different lines with different QBs and you can't really make a direct comparison like that.

 

[Runner]

The line has gotten alot worse without spencer, Wiegert, and Flannagin. Well, mayby not Wiegert.

Actually it has gotten worse without Wiegert. Go figure.

 

[edo783]

A thought on the 3 step drop and our O-line. Look at the plays and note that the defensive players push our guys back 2-3 yards in under 1-1.5 seconds. Now, if car is taking a three step drop that puts him about 3 yards deep. So, at about the time he has to get rid of the ball his own lineman are basically in his lap (that's if the D-lineman haven't clobberd him yet). So what you have is basically zero pocket and guys with in a foot or two of the QB. It has been obviouse to me that the DC's book on how beat the Texans offense is if with in the first 1-1.5 second you havent reached the QB, start jumping with hands in the air. (that started in J-vill)

To get a feel for what this might feel like for Carr, go stand about 3 feet from one of your walls and try to picture how you would throw the ball over the top of the 8 ft. wall. Yes, he should slide to get an opening to throw through, but there haven't been many. IMO, we haven't moved Carr outside like we should when the line isn't able to protect. It would give some throwing lanes and a bit more time.

 

[thunderkyss]

That doesn't make any sense at all. I could just as easily say that those numbers mean carr would have only been sacked 16 times playing 12 games behind the cowboys line and bledsoe would have been sacked 72 times in 12 games playing behind our line. They're different lines with different QBs and you can't really make a direct comparison like that.

The Cowboys sucked with Bledsoe..... they couldn't protect worth a crap.

With Romo, they'll probably send 4 out of 5 offensive linemen to the probowl. get Carr's nuts off your chin, and you'll be able to see how that relates to what we have here in Houston.

 

[Goldeagle]

to me it sounds like kubiak is gonna really improve this o-line this off-season, and then if carr still can't do what we expect him to do he will be done

I agree with this statement. Someone said we need depth and improvement on our O-line because when you have only 1 starter still starting you are in trouble.

 

[Nighthawk]

Not going to get into a debate with you because you think what you want to think and aren't going to change. But your comment that the Oline "excuse holds little to no water" is some serious denial on your part and sadly mistaken.

I won't go completely nuts with the stats with you from Sunday and into a detailed analysis of each play...I could... but let's leave it at this:

Carr was sacked 4 times in 6 consecutive pass attempts.
We attempted 28 passes.
Carr was sacked 5 times.
He scrambled away 3 times.
He was hit 12 times.

If your quarterback is standing upright for 16 out of 28 pass attempts, I wouldn't exactly call the Oline stellar, awesome, great, good, ok, not bad, improving, good enough, not real good, or even real bad. I would tend to gravitate a little bit further south of that my friend. Our offensive line is NOT the Dallas Cowboys. If you think after three injuries to the offensive line and starting a couple of rookies over the course of the season is equivalent to what the Cowboys have, then there must be a helluva lot of suck in the Texans because we should be a playoff team with that analogy!

Your analogy between Bledsoe, a statue, and Carr is also woefully inept. Carr is amongst the league leading rushing quarterbacks, something that Bledsoe definitely is not. Carr can move, Bledsoe cannot.

NOT a Carr is God answer.
NOT a Carr apologist.
NOT even the biggest Carr backer.
AM someone who realizes that you can't heap the entire blame on one guy.
AM someone who says our offensive scheme is not that good right now.
AM someone smart enough to know that our offensive line has long been the achilles heel of this franchise and until we fix that, we are bound to struggle to find consistency in anything we do.

Far be it from me to disagree with the inestimable CoachDent, but I have the feeling that even with a good, or pretty good offensive line Carr would still suck. The problem is his radically limited feel for the game. He just doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time, he acts out of memorized plans, he has no touch to speak of when he tries to move in the pocket, and when he's out of the pocket he runs like a goose. Cf. VY for the antithesis of Carr--he's all feel all the time, plays from the gut and on instinct, while at the same time polishing (and very quickly) his skills. He's amazing that way. Reminds you of Favre and some older players. Young is a player. Carr is a tin soldier.

I can't figure if he's just dumb as dirt, or he's got some white men can't jump thing, or some other set of reasons--he's stiff and awkward, blundering, always on the wrong foot, nervous, afraid, a real liability first to last. They should have jettisoned him a couple years ago. THe only question now is whether or not the bozos in the front office have enough sense to get rid of him in the off season.

Fixing this problem won't fix everything about the team, but it'll go a long way toward putting the team on track for success in the future.

 

[Runner]

I agree with this statement. Someone said we need depth and improvement on our O-line because when you have only 1 starter still starting you are in trouble.

Our coaches have had the opporunity to learn a lesson about depth this year. They may have learned the importance of balancing their roster to provide crucial depth at key positions. This year they had a tendancy to get cute with using multi-role players to save rosters spots. They then used these same spots to hold onto players that rarely suit up, much less play.

This approach didn't turn out to be wise once injuries occurred and they needed better players at single positions. Next year they might build a more standard 53 man roster.

 

[kingh99]

Far be it from me to disagree with the inestimable CoachDent, but I have the feeling that even with a good, or pretty good offensive line Carr would still suck. The problem is his radically limited feel for the game. He just doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time, he acts out of memorized plans, he has no touch to speak of when he tries to move in the pocket, and when he's out of the pocket he runs like a goose. Cf. VY for the antithesis of Carr--he's all feel all the time, plays from the gut and on instinct, while at the same time polishing (and very quickly) his skills. He's amazing that way. Reminds you of Favre and some older players. Young is a player. Carr is a tin soldier.

I can't figure if he's just dumb as dirt, or he's got some white men can't jump thing, or some other set of reasons--he's stiff and awkward, blundering, always on the wrong foot, nervous, afraid, a real liability first to last. They should have jettisoned him a couple years ago. THe only question now is whether or not the bozos in the front office have enough sense to get rid of him in the off season.

Fixing this problem won't fix everything about the team, but it'll go a long way toward putting the team on track for success in the future.

If there was a way, I would put this up for post of the year. This is the essence of this organizations's dilemma. Mr. Nighthawk expresses the feelings of a lot of us to a T. You need to get this message posted on Texan Chick's Blog. It hurts but dog gone it, it takes pressure to create a diamond. David Carr can't hack it as an NFL QB. I lost all respect for McNair as a decisive owner when he failed to act boldly in the off season.