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What's with the Carr bashing...

texan279

texan279

Hall of Fame
When Faggins and Cook basically single handedly cost us the game yesterday? I've seen about 20 threads bashing Carr, 1 about Cook, and 0 about Faggins. The one INT Carr threw was AJ's fault not Carr's, AJ had the ball taken out of his hands, again. I've read that Carr is not a leader blah blah blah because he couldn't bring us back, yet we were down 14-0 in the 1st quarter but we came back and took the lead and then our defense lets Buffalo march down the field and score a game winning TD in the last minute and a half. Faggins gets burned not once, but twice in the 1st quarter for 2 80+ yard TD's yet people come here to bash Carr. :confused:
 
I think the INT was Carr's fault, personally, but I agree with you in what you are saying.

You just have to ignore what they say. Personally I find their arguments dull, childish and generally misguided.

Those of us who know better just have to steer clear of the ignorance. Keep fighting the good fight, bro!
 
texan279 said:
When Faggins and Cook basically single handedly cost us the game yesterday? I've seen about 20 threads bashing Carr, 1 about Cook, and 0 about Faggins. The one INT Carr threw was AJ's fault not Carr's, AJ had the ball taken out of his hands, again. I've read that Carr is not a leader blah blah blah because he couldn't bring us back, yet we were down 14-0 in the 1st quarter but we came back and took the lead and then our defense lets Buffalo march down the field and score a game winning TD in the last minute and a half. Faggins gets burned not once, but twice in the 1st quarter for 2 80+ yard TD's yet people come here to bash Carr. :confused:
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Because one should expect more from a guy that gets paid 7 million a year, like mixing in a TD pass through a 4 game stretch. Faggins and Cook were part of the problem in the first half. This was a team loss and not squarely on Carr's shoulders, as is the case mostly every time.
 
The interference call on AJ was him preventing another int. by Carr. I can't say what I think about Carr right now.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Because one should expect more from a guy that gets paid 7 million a year, like a mixing in a TD pass through a 4 game stretch.
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See, texan279.... you have to understand that if the Texan receiving core doesn't get in position to snag a TD, it is Carr's fault.

It takes two to get a receiving TD, KT, and yesterday there wasn't a chance for that.
 
First interception, IMO:

1) Carr throws a floating jump ball to Andre. Not a very good throw, but not always bad because Dre catches a lot of these. At least it was a shot downfield.

2) Andre loses jump ball. Sometimes this happens in jump ball situations. I thought he fought hard for the ball.

3) Defensive end blows by a Winston whiff and Carr gets nailed as he throws. This lack of room may have led to the ball floating more than intended.
 
HJam72 said:
The interference call on AJ was him preventing another int. by Carr. I can't say what I think about Carr right now.
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I think the interference call on AJ was a smart play, I am talking about when he had the ball stripped from his hands for an INT for the second time this season.
 
Runner said:
First interception, IMO:

1) Carr throws a floating jump ball to Andre. Not a very good throw, but not always bad because Dre catches a lot of these. At least it was a shot downfield.

2) Andre loses jump ball. Sometimes this happens in jump ball situations. I thought he fought hard for the ball.

3) Defensive end blows by a Winston whiff and Carr gets nailed as he throws. This lack of room may have led to the ball floating more than intended.
Click to expand...

AJ had the ball in his hands IIRC, if he is supposed to be such a big strong WR, why does he keep getting balls ripped from his hands by DB's?
 
texan279 said:
I think the interference call on AJ was a smart play, I am talking about when he had the ball stripped from his hands for an INT for the second time this season.
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He was just pointing out another Carr mistake....

A.J had to stop the guy from intercepting it because of a poorly placed throw by Carr....
 
TexansLucky13 said:
See, texan279.... you have to understand that if the Texan receiving core doesn't get in position to snag a TD, it is Carr's fault.

It takes two to get a receiving TD, KT, and yesterday there wasn't a chance for that.
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Four games, not yesterday. Four games which is a quarter of a season. We are going back to the future unfortunately.
 
texan279 said:
I think the interference call on AJ was a smart play, I am talking about when he had the ball stripped from his hands for an INT for the second time this season.
Click to expand...

I know, I was just adding another, seperate thing, in case ya'll didn't know.
 
texan279 said:
When Faggins and Cook basically single handedly cost us the game yesterday? I've seen about 20 threads bashing Carr, 1 about Cook, and 0 about Faggins. The one INT Carr threw was AJ's fault not Carr's, AJ had the ball taken out of his hands, again. I've read that Carr is not a leader blah blah blah because he couldn't bring us back, yet we were down 14-0 in the 1st quarter but we came back and took the lead and then our defense lets Buffalo march down the field and score a game winning TD in the last minute and a half. Faggins gets burned not once, but twice in the 1st quarter for 2 80+ yard TD's yet people come here to bash Carr. :confused:
Click to expand...

Carr threw 22 completions in a row? I was at the game and extremely underwhelmed with his feat of high QB ranking daring do.

He doesn't make plays. Not that he wouldn't if he could, but he can't. Ok he can but not to the level needed to be a leader and a winner in the NFL. He threw 22 dinks and dunks in a row and I looked to my kid and said this reminded me of that #@$^%@#$@$%Y$ run and shoot without the rocket armed Warren Moon.

Here's the bad news.

Gary Kubiak is a good coach but I find that unless it's John Elway under the snap, this controlled roll/running QB style is awful. I want a team that keeps the QB in the pocket throwing darts and bombs downfield. I want the 92-95 Cowboys. I want the Patriots. I want a team that doesn't have as it's centerpiece an undersized, weak armed QB running for his life. Wake me when the Dave Krieg era is over in Houston. Actually that was an insult to Dave. Krieg.
 
texan279 said:
I think the interference call on AJ was a smart play, I am talking about when he had the ball stripped from his hands for an INT for the second time this season.
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Many of our posters would rather blame Carr for Andres' wussiness in fighting for the ball.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
He was just pointing out another Carr mistake....

A.J had to stop the guy from intercepting it because of a poorly placed throw by Carr....
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AJ nearly tore his hammy up trying to save Carr from that int. Carr can't throw a consistent fly. They need to take that out of the playbook. Also they need to tell David the other teams are hip to his love affair with AJ. When the chips are down and it's 4th and 2 you need to us AJ as a decoy. Did Terrell Owens catch a ball in the second half yesterday when the Cowboys made their little piece of history (gag me)? I don't think so.
 
texan279 said:
When Faggins and Cook basically single handedly cost us the game yesterday? I've seen about 20 threads bashing Carr, 1 about Cook, and 0 about Faggins. The one INT Carr threw was AJ's fault not Carr's, AJ had the ball taken out of his hands, again. I've read that Carr is not a leader blah blah blah because he couldn't bring us back, yet we were down 14-0 in the 1st quarter but we came back and took the lead and then our defense lets Buffalo march down the field and score a game winning TD in the last minute and a half. Faggins gets burned not once, but twice in the 1st quarter for 2 80+ yard TD's yet people come here to bash Carr. :confused:
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And it wasn't Faggins. It was our good run stopping but short legged too slow Jason Simmons and earlier CC Brown who got burned the worst. they couldn't complete the triangle of coverage in time when that little water bug took off down the sideline.
 
It has become very clear that we need to acquire (draft, trade, or FA) a NFL quality CB to play opposite Robinson. Also, WTH was CC Brown on those two Evan's TD?
 
re the Dave Krieg comparisons:

Most Fumbles, Season
23 Kerry Collins, N.Y. Giants, 2001
Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota, 2002
21 Tony Banks, St. Louis, 1996
David Carr, Houston, 2002
18 Dave Krieg, Seattle, 1989
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990

Carr puts the ball on the ground more than Krieg did? Wow!
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
He was just pointing out another Carr mistake....

A.J had to stop the guy from intercepting it because of a poorly placed throw by Carr....
Click to expand...

Add this poorly placed throw to the following:
1. AJ being out fought for the ball on the int.
2. the fumble by Jameel,
3. the two loooong TDs given up by our db's
4. the lack of pressure on Losman
5. the great gain of field possession our punter gained for us

I could name more, but lets run with the pack and bash Carr some more, its more in vogue these days.
 
kingh99 said:
re the Dave Krieg comparisons:

Most Fumbles, Season
23 Kerry Collins, N.Y. Giants, 2001
Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota, 2002
21 Tony Banks, St. Louis, 1996
David Carr, Houston, 2002
18 Dave Krieg, Seattle, 1989
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990

Carr puts the ball on the ground more than Krieg did? Wow!
Click to expand...

Is Carrs high QB rating a Wow!?

Is his 22 straight completions a Wow!?

Or do we just Wow! his negative stats?

Kinda like a smorgasbord isn't it? :drool: Pick and choose only what we like.
 
TheOgre said:
It has become very clear that we need to acquire (draft, trade, or FA) a NFL quality CB to play opposite Robinson. Also, WTH was CC Brown on those two Evan's TD?
Click to expand...

I posted this opinion on a couple of threads and I was wrong. Richard Smith DID leave Faggins on an Island on the first bomb to Evans. He said it on the 13 recap show in an interveiw. If that was the call, Brown( I believe it was Glenn Earl after watching it again) is off the hook. To his Moma, And Family I'm sorry.

The second one...that was shear lack of tallent. Guys were out of position and Evans split the seam. But for those of you who were banging on RS the first couple of games, can't have it both ways. If they don't get there on a blitz, you saw yesterday what the resluts of the Balls out gamble are. You live by the blitz and when you don't have guys who can get there you die by it. Get use to it. With Mario on the mend, we're back to the '05 defense. Cover duck and prey. The ten and six record guessers at the start of the year...their enthusiasim exceeded the tallent level of this team. That shecudle was...brutal.
 
cuppacoffee said:
Add this poorly placed throw to the following:
1. AJ being out fought for the ball on the int.
2. the fumble by Jameel,
3. the two loooong TDs given up by our db's
4. the lack of pressure on Losman
5. the great gain of field possession our punter gained for us

I could name more, but lets run with the pack and bash Carr some more, its more in vogue these days.
Click to expand...

First of all....I wasn't Bashing Carr...Just trying to clarify another statement that another poster made....

Second of all, this was a team loss....Neither unit played good enough to win....

But the thing about that is you can't judge Carr on the same level as the rest of the team...period...

Carr's mistakes will be magnified and rightfully so....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
First of all....I wasn't Bashing Carr...Just trying to clarify another statement that another poster made....

Second of all, this was a team loss....Neither unit played good enough to win....

But the thing about that is you can't judge Carr on the same level as the rest of the team...period...

Carr's mistakes will be magnified and rightfully so....
Click to expand...

What mistakes did he make yesterday? I am not saying he played a perfect game, but he didn't get burned twice for 80+ yard TD's nor did he fumble the ball in the red zone in the 4th quarter to kill a drive that lost us at least 3 points.
 
I've seen posts criticizing:

1) Carr
2) Dre
3) Cook
4) The offensive line
5) Kubiak
6) The refs
7) Stanley
8) Faggins
9) The safeties

Why the myopia?
 
cuppacoffee said:
Is Carrs high QB rating a Wow!?

Is his 22 straight completions a Wow!?

Or do we just Wow! his negative stats?

Kinda like a smorgasbord isn't it? :drool: Pick and choose only what we like.
Click to expand...

Im not a Carr basher...I'm not a Carr supporter....

I want to win...A mistake by Jameel Cook is not the same as a mistake by David Carr....

David is the QB....David is paid pretty well....

We are taliing about "the QB of our future".....Some of these other guys that are making mistakes or negative plays may not even be with our team next yr......I don't put this loss squarely on any one player, coach, or unit....But Carr did not do enough this past Sunday...period....

I am hoping Carr can improve and become a consistent above average performer, but at the same time I'm not going to be blissfully ignorant, and think that because of Kubes "credentials" and past success that he's going to get Carr to play like he and some fans envisioned....
 
texan279 said:
I think the interference call on AJ was a smart play, I am talking about when he had the ball stripped from his hands for an INT for the second time this season.
Click to expand...

I don't think it should have been thrown to begin with. Asking AJ to catch a ball over his shoulder when he's covered over the top is a bit much. But at least Carr took a shot over the deep middle, so I can't complain too much. Sometimes you will get picked and sometimes you hit paydirt. AJ saved 2 picks, one on the pass interference call and once where he batted a ball away thrown directly to the DB.
 
texan279 said:
What mistakes did he make yesterday? I am not saying he played a perfect game, but he didn't get burned twice for 80+ yard TD's nor did he fumble the ball in the red zone in the 4th quarter to kill a drive that lost us at least 3 points.
Click to expand...

I never said that Carr made any mistakes yesterday....But if you are trying to get me to believe that he played mistake free football, the you're barking up the wrong tree....

Get this in your head....

Faggins does not = Carr....

All players mistakes are not equal....
 
JDizzle said:
I don't think it should have been thrown to begin with. Asking AJ to catch a ball over his shoulder when he's covered over the top is a bit much. But at least Carr took a shot over the deep middle, so I can't complain too much. Sometimes you will get picked and sometimes you hit paydirt. AJ saved 2 picks, one on the pass interference call and once where he batted a ball away thrown directly to the DB.
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All I am saying is people complain about what Carr makes and what he does/doesn't do but the fact is AJ makes more than Carr does yet he seems to get a free pass for whatever reason, maybe the ball should not have been thrown, but AJ had the ball in his hands, and the DB snatched it right out of his hands. If he is going to get paid like a top 10 WR, he should play like one.
 
texan279 said:
What mistakes did he make yesterday? I am not saying he played a perfect game, but he didn't get burned twice for 80+ yard TD's nor did he fumble the ball in the red zone in the 4th quarter to kill a drive that lost us at least 3 points.
Click to expand...

One more thing....

I haven't seen anyone say "we lost because of Carr"....
 
texan279 said:
All I am saying is people complain about what Carr makes and what he does/doesn't do but the fact is AJ makes more than Carr does yet he seems to get a free pass for whatever reason, maybe the ball should not have been thrown, but AJ had the ball in his hands, and the DB snatched it right out of his hands. If he is going to get paid like a top 10 WR, he should play like one.
Click to expand...

Stop dreaming...Wake up....It's Monday man....Nov 20.....2006.....

There have been criticism of every player who has played poorly....
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Four games, not yesterday. Four games which is a quarter of a season. We are going back to the future unfortunately.
Click to expand...

You name the play when we had a shoot at the end zone, last one I can think of is when Carr hit Andre wide open in Jax and the great Hawaiian could not run one more yard to score.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I never said that Carr made any mistakes yesterday....But if you are trying to get me to believe that he played mistake free football, the you're barking up the wrong tree....

Get this in your head....

Faggins does not = Carr....

All players mistakes are not equal....
Click to expand...

Go back and re read my post, I said I wasn't trying to say Carr played a mistake free game. And if you are saying that Faggins getting burned twice in the 1st quarter for 80+ yard TD's in the 1st quarter and Cook fumbling and costing us at least 3 points is not as bad as any mistake Carr would/could/did make, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
MrMeToo said:
Carr is a wussy and overrated on this board by some posters...
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Yeah the guy gets crushed behind his patch work o-line last game....on his thorwing shoulder...and he's a wussy. There's a reason the deep balls were floating yeaterday. So far the last three games, every pundant calling the games has called Carr's progress outstand. And...he's becoming what THEY THOUGHT HE'D BE WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED #1. You'd still be covering up under the sheets big guy with a shot he took in New York. There is nothing wrong with Carr. This is old news and anyone who thinks this way is behind the curve. You wanna go tramping with Sage & the snake next season...be my guest. Just don't come crying on this board when the team still suxs. Lack of tallent around him is not Carr's fault. Lack of support from the organazation is not Carr's fault. There's six OLT prospects, six of them mind you, on the board in this years draft. And we won't take one. And we never have. The o-line suxs, has suxed and untill they spend some draft capitol on that group...will sux. Hard to be a Porche with a Volkswagon engine under the hood. Hard to make all pro OLTs out of third round draft choices. Spend some draft capitol on the o-line, then I'd say you have a legit beef. Untill then, you're just wasting band width.
 
michaelm said:
KT, could you please just make this statement your sig, and spare us all the repetition?
Click to expand...

Great idea!

After you change yours KT, then I'll make mine "We don't need so many swing players, we need better single position players".

We can then avoid the repetition (of typing anyway) by having our main themes on ALL of our posts.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Because one should expect more from a guy that gets paid 7 million a year, like mixing in a TD pass through a 4 game stretch. Faggins and Cook were part of the problem in the first half. This was a team loss and not squarely on Carr's shoulders, as is the case mostly every time.
Click to expand...

Then we should be expecting more from a guy who makes more than $7.75 mil a year, like not letting DB's rip balls out of his hands.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
But the thing about that is you can't judge Carr on the same level as the rest of the team...period...

Carr's mistakes will be magnified and rightfully so....
Click to expand...

xtruroyaltyx said:
...A mistake by Jameel Cook is not the same as a mistake by David Carr....
Click to expand...

Why are you contradicting yourself?

You say it was a team loss, then you blame Carr for the loss more than anyone else.

Why? Just because he gets paid more? C'mon.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Im not a Carr basher...I'm not a Carr supporter....

I want to win...A mistake by Jameel Cook is not the same as a mistake by David Carr....

David is the QB....David is paid pretty well....

We are taliing about "the QB of our future".....Some of these other guys that are making mistakes or negative plays may not even be with our team next yr......I don't put this loss squarely on any one player, coach, or unit....But Carr did not do enough this past Sunday...period....

I am hoping Carr can improve and become a consistent above average performer, but at the same time I'm not going to be blissfully ignorant, and think that because of Kubes "credentials" and past success that he's going to get Carr to play like he and some fans envisioned....
Click to expand...

Like what, run more, throw it deep, throw over the middle, stand in the pockett and deliver, run a draw that gets called back for holding, throw a pass to cook and he fumbles, trust Andre to come down with the ball, put the 3 and 2 pass the only place he could have and for some strange reason expect his pro bowl reciever to catch it and not fall on the ground.
 
Marcus said:
Why? Just because he gets paid more? C'mon.
Click to expand...
Are you still living in the capless 70's? If your superstar level salaried players aren't producing superstar quality play your team will struggle....there isn't an unlimited cap so you have to settle for lesser players at other positions since your money is tied up. The key to winning is for your big ticket players to play like big ticket players. When that doesn't happen...you get the Texans.
 
threetoedpete said:
Yeah the guy gets crushed behind his patch work o-line last game....on his thorwing shoulder...and he's a wussy. There's a reason the deep balls were floating yeaterday. So far the last three games, every pundant calling the games has called Carr's progress outstand. And...he's becoming what THEY THOUGHT HE'D BE WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED #1. You'd still be covering up under the sheets big guy with a shot he took in New York. There is nothing wrong with Carr. This is old news and anyone who thinks this way is behind the curve. You wanna go tramping with Sage & the snake next season...be my guest. Just don't come crying on this board when the team still suxs. Lack of tallent around him is not Carr's fault. Lack of support from the organazation is not Carr's fault. There's six OLT prospects, six of them mind you, on the board in this years draft. And we won't take one. And we never have. The o-line suxs, has suxed and untill they spend some draft capitol on that group...will sux. Hard to be a Porche with a Volkswagon engine under the hood. Hard to make all pro OLTs aout of third round draft choices. Spen some draft capitol on the o-line, then I'd say you have a legit beef.
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Uh huh. Thanks for reminding me of the contrast in arm strength between Dave and others. When Losman was pressured and throwing flatfooted he hit his guy in stride. Carr just throws it up there. No touch at all except every once in a while he gets lucky. David Carr will play his 8 or 9 years here and never accomplish a damn thing. He can't make enough plays. He's always looking short. Don't tell me it was an accident and pre-season that this other guy Rosenfelds puts the ball on the guy's shoulder or in his hands as he turns on the 40 yard passes. Carr pisses me off because he's so @#$%#$#% careful not to throw a pass into a tight window. Loser. Sick of him Wish we had someone else to lead this team but now we are also stuck with Kubes and he wants a guy to scramble, ugh.

Why can we have a guy like this Dan Henne guy who steps up in the pocket and tattoos x's on his receivers chests?
 
Hulk75 said:
You name the play when we had a shoot at the end zone, last one I can think of is when Carr hit Andre wide open in Jax and the great Hawaiian could not run one more yard to score.
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A limited playbook is a result of limited players. Very sad. Even when the running game is there we can not take advantage of stretching the field. That is the most disappointing thing for me. The offense is averaging about 15 points per game, which is right on track with last year's debacle.
 
texan279 said:
And if you are saying that Faggins getting burned twice in the 1st quarter for 80+ yard TD's in the 1st quarter and Cook fumbling and costing us at least 3 points is not as bad as any mistake Carr would/could/did make, then I don't know what to tell you.
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In regards to winning and losing, you can say so and so made a more crucial mistake....

But for the purposes of discussion on the message board, why would we heavily discuss what Cook did, or Didn't do....or what Dexter Wynn did...

Those guys may not even be here next year....

I am not making this point in regards to why we won/why we lost...That is for the coaches to do when they watch film....

I am referring to your comments about how Carr is put under a microscope by fans....And honestly within the orginization they probably feel the same way, and have similar discussions....look at it from Bob McNair's view...He's dishing out major bucks for a QB that isn't playing up to where we want him to play....He's paying mediocre dollars to Faggins....If you are looking at it from a worth perspective...Faggins has been worth what he's being paid...David hasn't.....
 
texan279 said:
Then we should be expecting more from a guy who makes more than $7.75 mil a year, like not letting DB's rip balls out of his hands.
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Complement AJ with a QB who can run a NFL playbook for about 3-4 million dollars and that is a net gain of 3-4 million which can be spent on more O line or the secondary. I agree that the Carr/AJ combo is way over priced.
 
Hulk75 said:
Like what, run more, throw it deep, throw over the middle, stand in the pockett and deliver, run a draw that gets called back for holding, throw a pass to cook and he fumbles, trust Andre to come down with the ball, put the 3 and 2 pass the only place he could have and for some strange reason expect his pro bowl reciever to catch it and not fall on the ground.
Click to expand...

We loss...

He made mistakes...

He missed on some plays that could have put us in better position to win....

He didn't do enough....

Im not saying only he didn't do enough...The whole team didn't do enough...But Carr will be singled out, and deservingly so....
 
Marcus said:
Why are you contradicting yourself?

You say it was a team loss, then you blame Carr for the loss more than anyone else.

Why? Just because he gets paid more? C'mon.
Click to expand...

I never contradicted myself....

I'll break it down one more time...

It's a team loss...The team didn't play well enough to win....

Carr's play is magnified, because he is not living up to expectation...

Meaning....I don't expect Faggins to lock down every reciever....I don't expect Faggins to be a top tier CB....I don't expect Jameel cook to never fumble...I don't expect our O-line and RB's to get 200 yards rushing...I don't expect A.J to make every spectacular catch...

Now I'm not saying that carr is supposed to make every play, but he hasn't stepped up and performed at the level at which he is expected...
 
texan279 said:
All I am saying is people complain about what Carr makes and what he does/doesn't do but the fact is AJ makes more than Carr does yet he seems to get a free pass for whatever reason, maybe the ball should not have been thrown, but AJ had the ball in his hands, and the DB snatched it right out of his hands. If he is going to get paid like a top 10 WR, he should play like one.
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They both had the ball in their hands. AJ is catching over his shoulder and the DB is facing the ball .... 9 times out of 10 the DB wins that.

AJ has made some spectacular plays this year. Carr has not. Without AJ Carr's numbers would be hiddeous and his coveted rating would be the same as Marcus Coleman's blood-alcohol level. AJ = best player on the team.
 
JDizzle said:
They both had the ball in their hands. AJ is catching over his shoulder and the DB is facing the ball .... 9 times out of 10 the DB wins that.

AJ has made some spectacular plays this year. Carr has not. Without AJ Carr's numbers would be hiddeous and his coveted rating would be the same as Marcus Coleman's blood-alcohol level. AJ = best player on the team.
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AJ had the ball in his hands first. And Carr is the one throwing those balls to AJ, yet he gets no credit? And Carr has made some plays this season, through the air and with his feet, like the 1st down scramble that was called back yesterday. I mean you can call me a Carr homer or whatever you want, I just do not understand why Carr gets the blame for everything wrong with this team.
 
Don't be a Carr Hater the reason we lost was the whole teams fault we should have made the first down on our last drive but it was not in all Carr's fault, our offense just could not do the job and in the end our defense could not hold. That to me is everyone to blame not just Carr.:wild:
 
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