NATHANHALE
Waterboy
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4327070.html
kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...
kubiak's take on the 'two minute drill'....kinda sad, IMO...
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Two Minute Drill
- Thread starter NATHANHALE
- Start date
Kinda sad?? Well, IMO ... I thought his explanations were pretty reasonable, considering how the team responds in the 2nd half.
I guess it's pretty easy to tell him to "grow a pair", and then easily crucify him when it doesn't turn out right.
Not really. It makes perfect sense if you understand the game.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Scary stuff, but I am aghast that Kubiak only got this during the season and could not see it in his film work before he took the job. We cannot afford to sign players that cannot play NFL football.
Success in the second half of the season is dependent upon the defense's development.
Success in the second half of the season is dependent upon the defense's development.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
I think most other head coaches would try and get some points on the board if there's still 2 minutes left on the clock before halftime. His explanations are reasonable but I still don't agree with him. At least try throwing the ball down field some.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
So, we want to go into the half on a high note induced-not by us scoring-but by not letting the opposition score? OK. What's our benefit to start the 2ND half by not 'upsetting' fragile minds? Scoring points? Us, no. Them, yes.
Actually, what is Kubiak's choice/outlook with players that are not 'tough' mentally? IMO, it depends on whether he thinks those players are here for the 'long haul.' My point here is why 'coddle' down the offense for players he does not intend to keep? Saying this, I'm sure we're talking about 'permanent' players.
JMO, but I'm missing something here. We are talking about highly skilled/trained athletes that are paid large sums of money to do their jobs on this team and Kubiak feels the need to build his team around 'not hurting their feelings.' Does this happen in the 'real' world?
Finally, how will he know when it's OK to try to win without upsetting a player? This 'thinking' is all new to me, so I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me---too, is this really common in the NFL?...thanks
Actually, what is Kubiak's choice/outlook with players that are not 'tough' mentally? IMO, it depends on whether he thinks those players are here for the 'long haul.' My point here is why 'coddle' down the offense for players he does not intend to keep? Saying this, I'm sure we're talking about 'permanent' players.
JMO, but I'm missing something here. We are talking about highly skilled/trained athletes that are paid large sums of money to do their jobs on this team and Kubiak feels the need to build his team around 'not hurting their feelings.' Does this happen in the 'real' world?
Finally, how will he know when it's OK to try to win without upsetting a player? This 'thinking' is all new to me, so I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me---too, is this really common in the NFL?...thanks
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Well, we can't blame Corey Bradford anymore. It is a little upsetting to hear that Carr is definitely our guy, our linemen are not quite as bad at pass blocking anymore, we have good receivers on the field, but we can't trust (David) the team to run two minute drills. I sure hope there really is going to be a time when he can do that.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Football is a strategy game....that's why (the same reason teams punt too). If you don't trust your QB, you shouldn't put him out there to screw up the entire game for the others. When Kubiak said that Carr still had a long way to go, I don't think he was joking with us.
I think your making it more complicated than it is. How much a player gets paid is not going have any effect on how upbeat or dejected he gets during the course of a game. The player might be a professional, but he is human, not a machine.So, we want to go into the half on a high note induced-not by us scoring-but by not letting the opposition score? OK. What's our benefit to start the 2ND half by not 'upsetting' fragile minds? Scoring points? Us, no. Them, yes.
Actually, what is Kubiak's choice/outlook with players that are not 'tough' mentally? IMO, it depends on whether he thinks those players are here for the 'long haul.' My point here is why 'coddle' down the offense for players he does not intend to keep? Saying this, I'm sure we're talking about 'permanent' players.
JMO, but I'm missing something here. We are talking about highly skilled/trained athletes that are paid large sums of money to do their jobs on this team and Kubiak feels the need to build his team around 'not hurting their feelings.' Does this happen in the 'real' world?
Finally, how will he know when it's OK to try to win without upsetting a player? This 'thinking' is all new to me, so I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me---too, is this really common in the NFL?...thanks
This is a losing football team, with reputation of losing. He's just trying to do his best to keep his team from getting a "here we go again" idea planted in their minds during halftime. I mean, this team does not do very well starting out in the 3rd quarter, so again, I think his explanations are not unreasonable.
TheCD
Rookie
From what I gathered out of the article, what Kubiak meant in saying he wanted the offense to do something before he let them open up the fast-paced plays is that he wanted them to do something on that drive in order to show they wouldn't be prone to errors in those situations. In the Giants game, while I didn't like how we ended the first half, I do understand his mindset. We had held our own in the first half and and the Giants have the ability to score fast if need-be, so Kubiak didn't want them to get that opporunity. He still should have gone for it, though.
If what I gathered is correct, it makes sense to me: Make your guys earn their chances, and weed out the guys who don't want to fight hard enough. If you aren't playing hard within 2 minutes of a half, with a score of 7-3, against a team who was supposed to walk all over you, you don't deserve to play
sleepwalker
Waterboy
We are getting better. This isnt Xbox Madden. If you have a banged up talentless OL out on the field and a QB that has turned the ball over 60 times in 60something games then it might be a good idea to control the clock and keep the other team from running their 2 min drill...Especially if we get the ball back to start the 3rd quarter.
Half of you would love to see a 3 and out throwing down the field using only 20 seconds off the clock...Or worse, turning the ball over.
This team will get better and you'll get your 2 min drill......60 minutes in a game and we are getting mad about 4 minutes.
Half of you would love to see a 3 and out throwing down the field using only 20 seconds off the clock...Or worse, turning the ball over.
This team will get better and you'll get your 2 min drill......60 minutes in a game and we are getting mad about 4 minutes.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Seemingly Kubiak is at a crossroads, does he:
1 - Get more weapons for Carr
2 - Show continued patience for a 4.5 year vet that makes 7.2 million dollars
3 - Get the Texans an NFL QB who can run a two minute drill.
1 - Get more weapons for Carr
2 - Show continued patience for a 4.5 year vet that makes 7.2 million dollars
3 - Get the Texans an NFL QB who can run a two minute drill.
He was actually saying that our defense hasn't responded to late 1st half drives:
He may not trust the offense or the defense, but Kubiak needs to get over it or he'll turn into Dom Capers. If the coach won't show confidence in the players, how are the players going to develop confidence?
Osso
Waterboy
YES!!! at least die trying.
Most of us know this year is about rebuilding a ****ty shed into a state of the art barn. You can't use rusty nails and duct tape to do it. Take a frikn chance man. Bow up. If it's 3 and out so be it. If we turn it over, so what, we are doing that 3 times a game on average anyway.
trutexan02
Waterboy
I agree I don't think he was talking about lack of execution for the season but on that drive alone. The Two minute drill is intended to be a fast paced chunk yardage offensive output. When we don't get any thing on first or second down he only wants to burn time and punt one deep. Can't blame him for that.
I think I saw some one say this isn't MADDEN. I'd say they are right.
Semi related topic: I HATE THE PREVENT DEFENSE . THE SINGLE REASON THE OILER LOST TO BUFFALO WAY BACK WHEN... any coach who uses it should be kealhalled. KUBES INCLUDED
Vinny
shiny happy fan
actually it was the inability to run the ball and play with a lead. The team couldn't run the ball and kill the clock. They passed their way into the lead and passed their way back out of it. I hated the RnS for the pro game. Too one-dimensional since you have to have a power game in the red zone if you want to win in the NFL...sure, you can rack up some stats with the RnS (I'm the anti-stat guy it seems)...but the offense bogs down when the field shortens and it's nearly impossible to manage the clock with a passing attack.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
sure he mentions the defense - because they sucked in a historically bad sense early in the year...but if you think that in 5 years, not letting the offense open up in the 2 min drill over and over is a defensive issue...I don't know what to tell you.
1- This is the easy one. the Texans need more weapons, no matter what you think of 2 and 3.
2- How much of his job (as defined by ownership) is to do exactly this?
3- Easier to say than it sounds. For as much as I think Carr is an average starter in this league, he is a starting calibur player. My thought is that unless you commit to developing a younger QB (see 2 IMO) whoever you get will be Carr with different warts. If nothing else, the current offense hides Carr's warts as well as any can. The best news is that you can win with an average starter, but you need to do 1 and going off this current KT board develop a well-above average defense.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
"60 minutes in a game and we are getting mad about 4 minutes."
Unfortunately, we're in our 5th yr of this type of play calling plus hearing from the HC that 'more' of his kinds of players are needed BEFORE the offense can be 'opened' up...obviously, both coaches believe 'everything' has to be in place before they can even 'try'....
Here's hoping we reach that 'magical' moment sometime in the 'near' future, where we can run an NFL basic/every team does it '2 minute' drill...
Unfortunately, we're in our 5th yr of this type of play calling plus hearing from the HC that 'more' of his kinds of players are needed BEFORE the offense can be 'opened' up...obviously, both coaches believe 'everything' has to be in place before they can even 'try'....
Here's hoping we reach that 'magical' moment sometime in the 'near' future, where we can run an NFL basic/every team does it '2 minute' drill...
Here is my opinion. The players aren't robots. Kubiak shows them by his actions and tells them in the newspaper (and probably in meetings) that he doesn't trust them to execute a two minute drill, which is a staple of almost every offense in the NFL and college. To me, that has to hurt the players' "fragile egos" more than trying and failing. I bet most if not all of the players want to go for it from the 20 with two minutes and two timeouts left. Those that don't might have that losing attitude we are worrying about eradicating.
We are losing anyway - I don't know what we are gaining, unless "keeping it close" is still a goal.
We are losing anyway - I don't know what we are gaining, unless "keeping it close" is still a goal.
We've been changing our offense for 4+ years to try and find schemes Carr can do and do with consistency, and this scenario continues. This is not a year we are expected to win, as we install 'everything' new, so why not call the plays that are needed and see what happens?
It's past time to see if Carr is the 'man,' and Kubiak promised to find this out--eliminating plays that Carr struggles with IMO is not the answer. Carr needs to be the one 'stepping up' and not the HC 'stepping down' the offense to compensate for Carr's 'whatever.'
...just when is Carr expected to be able to handle a 2 minute drill, for example? Try it-so what if he screws up-let him learn what he did wrong and do better next time. JMO, but Carr's time must be now, not wasting any more time to find out if he can lead us to the 'promise land.'
:brickwall
It's past time to see if Carr is the 'man,' and Kubiak promised to find this out--eliminating plays that Carr struggles with IMO is not the answer. Carr needs to be the one 'stepping up' and not the HC 'stepping down' the offense to compensate for Carr's 'whatever.'
...just when is Carr expected to be able to handle a 2 minute drill, for example? Try it-so what if he screws up-let him learn what he did wrong and do better next time. JMO, but Carr's time must be now, not wasting any more time to find out if he can lead us to the 'promise land.'
:brickwallI guess i dont get it.. Carr has problems when he forces the football. By passing on a two minute drill, he effectively is passing Carr making a forced and possibility a bonehead throw which would probably give points to the other team. What is not clear about that. Kub is trying to build confidence in the team and Carr by making smart decisions and plays. After that happens, then it will be working with the two minute drill. Until then, he is wanting to elimiate the bonehead plays that mentally rock a team during a game. It makes prefect sense to me.. Why dont you all (there are some that do here)?
Many of the people understand what Kubiak is doing , but disagree because it is normally counter to trying to win the game in hand.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I think we disagree that Carr is a starting calibur player, but let me give you that one. I think Damon Huard, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and a host of others were behind one of your self decribed average starters. All of them turned out to be better than the starter. Until someone gave them a chance, they were also thought of as backups. Can someone please explain this mis-guided notion that because Carr is the starter, that our second stringer can't possibly be the better QB?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Normally I agree with your takes and will continue to follow suit via piggybacking on your post.
Our mistake was extending him at that dollar amount. Carr is an average starter in this league yet we over compensate.
Unfortunately, I agree...and I REALLY like Kubiak!
Bingo. We have a winner. We went into "prevent offense" and STILL gave up a score.
It doesn't even have to be 100% pass-oriented, but a run "up the gut" was very telling of how hard we were trying in the last 2:00.
That's why his reasoning looks even WORSE. At least TRY to keep the Defense off the field for the last 2:00.
Exactly! Ever wonder why Carr doesn't look like he's "in a hurry" in these situations? Why should he be in a hurry on a between-the-tackles handoff?Lucky said:
...from the article
Kubes, lemme get this straight.... YOU call two hopelessly conservative calls and because the Offense didn't turn those into highlight-reel gems, THEN you decided to just run clock? Riiiiiight!
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I think people are reading too much into this article. Or at least those who want to put this all on Carr.
Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.
Maybe I missed it in the article, but I don't see where Kubiak is dogging Carr specifically. Carr runs the offense, but he ain't the only participant.
Even if he is, Carr remains the starter because he make a ton of money. Sucks, but that's the way it is.
Oh, trust me TC ... this thread is all about Carr.
Porky
Hall of Fame
So, you are saying the left guard is not up to snuff, so Kubes can't run the 2 minute drill? Let's bring a little reality into the discussion, shall we? In order to develop the correct outcome, one must define the problem correctly. This is like the blue elephant in the room at a party that everyone can see, but nobody wants to discuss for fear of offending the host. Kubes can see the elephant, but wants to pretend it doesn't exist.
Do you reeeaaaallllyyyy think Huard is better than Green??
Maybe you should take his name out, and put in Garrard.
I agree that it isn't all about Carr. He is telling just about every member of the offense and defense that they and/or their teammates aren't to be trusted to taking the risk of running a two minute drill, even though every other team in the league runs them routinely.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Offense is supposed to be offensive. Kubiak knows football, he also knows that an offense can chew up the clock to keep his defense off the field. If the offensive guru, and I do think he is one, does not have faith in his offense I can assure you that it is not because of his playbook and his experience in viewing that playbook applied. Carr was one of many problems in the past based upon his salary cap impact and now is one of less problems based upon his salary cap impact.
I agree with your take concerning extending his contract and probably have stated the same sometime or another.
IMO, once you get pass the top 8-12 guys in the NFL, you have a bunch of guys who teams ask to not screw up the ball game. I believe Carr can do that (especially in the current system). This is why I pointed out that if you increase the weapons and have well above average defense, you can win with average QB. There are plenty of guys in the NFL, maybe even that unnamed back-up here, who can be that type of QB. My general problem with the Carr is not that he is totally worthless, but for what he has shown on the field, the Texans have too much time and money invested in the hope that he is something more than what he has displayed.
Sidenote: Some irony in the fact the 4 QBs you listed they have taken the place only two QBs, Trent Green and Drew Bledsoe. Probably does mean anything either way, just an observation.
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
This to me speaks volumes about Kubiak. I know some of you will take issue with me, but I would like to add some additional facts to this. In one of the Chronicle articles Kubiak mentioned he does not want his QB to audible. Carr has a very limited set of Checks. He believes the coach is to call the play and the team is to run it.
Now that speaks again of being predictable in my book. It also says only he knows what will work regardless of what the defense is showing. Isn't that heart warming and comfortible for the defense if they know by a tell what you are doing. They can be assured that if they call the correct defense you are dead meat, because the Texans are not going to change the play.
This goes along with the two minute drill, because many coaches would consider a deep pass the same as a punt if its intercepted. However, we don't really try to go long all that often. Carr does have an arm and I would rather take a shot in the situation we were in with NY, because they were going to get the ball to start the 2nd half. We could not afford to give up opportunities particularly when they are few and far between. That was what Kubiak said about the 2nd half against the NYG. He knew their running game was to control the clock and limit our opportunities.
When you look at the whole picture I still say Kubiak is blowing smoke and I don't think he is the best coach for this team. He is another Capers and that is all there is to it. He is incapable of being flexible. So be it, but don't expect anything other than what you are seeing.
As an added note this is why Carr is playing. Kubiak says he loves teaching Carr and he says he has a lot of talent. Some of you wonder why Sage is not starting and the answer is the same stuborness dictates staying with Carr. At least that is the take of some of you, but there certainly is an element of truth to that. I would say Kubiak is still not going to Carr's strengths, but that is my take on the situation.
We may win a game here or there, but don't expect too much because we will not do a whole lot until and if we get a running game that suits Kubiak. That is probably at least a year or so away. Kubiak is better than Capers, but I really don't think that much better. He is better at helping Carr, but then Kubiak's statements kind of indicate a big part of Carr's problem is really what he has been taught to do. Kind of a way of saying the previous staff didn't know what they were doing.
Oh, well take your shots and enjoy the game tomorrow. We seem to do well against the Jags. I hope we have a good game. It would be nice for the guys to win this one.
Now that speaks again of being predictable in my book. It also says only he knows what will work regardless of what the defense is showing. Isn't that heart warming and comfortible for the defense if they know by a tell what you are doing. They can be assured that if they call the correct defense you are dead meat, because the Texans are not going to change the play.
This goes along with the two minute drill, because many coaches would consider a deep pass the same as a punt if its intercepted. However, we don't really try to go long all that often. Carr does have an arm and I would rather take a shot in the situation we were in with NY, because they were going to get the ball to start the 2nd half. We could not afford to give up opportunities particularly when they are few and far between. That was what Kubiak said about the 2nd half against the NYG. He knew their running game was to control the clock and limit our opportunities.
When you look at the whole picture I still say Kubiak is blowing smoke and I don't think he is the best coach for this team. He is another Capers and that is all there is to it. He is incapable of being flexible. So be it, but don't expect anything other than what you are seeing.
As an added note this is why Carr is playing. Kubiak says he loves teaching Carr and he says he has a lot of talent. Some of you wonder why Sage is not starting and the answer is the same stuborness dictates staying with Carr. At least that is the take of some of you, but there certainly is an element of truth to that. I would say Kubiak is still not going to Carr's strengths, but that is my take on the situation.
We may win a game here or there, but don't expect too much because we will not do a whole lot until and if we get a running game that suits Kubiak. That is probably at least a year or so away. Kubiak is better than Capers, but I really don't think that much better. He is better at helping Carr, but then Kubiak's statements kind of indicate a big part of Carr's problem is really what he has been taught to do. Kind of a way of saying the previous staff didn't know what they were doing.
Oh, well take your shots and enjoy the game tomorrow. We seem to do well against the Jags. I hope we have a good game. It would be nice for the guys to win this one.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Yeah, I definitely think it's all Carr's fault.
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
Jesus!
Here is another quote by P King from Texas Chick Article.
"HoustonProFootball.com has this nice preview of the Houston-JAX game that is worth a read.
The only thing I would add to it is that the Texans special teams has been very disappointing the last couple of games. Usually, they out perform the rest of the team, but lately they have been absolutely loss contributing.
In previous seasons, special teams coach Joe Marciano usually has had a designated guy to be a returner, but Gary Kubiak this year has emphasized that he wants a returner that can contribute on other parts of the team. At this point, they are just looking for consistency and picked up Dexter Wynn who was released from the Eagles a couple of weeks ago. He can return both punts and kickoffs, and has played backup defensive back."
Some more evidence of how Kubiak is taking away what the Team does well and having an adverse affect. I keep saying Kubiak is a stuborn man and not what you think he is................
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
No.
What I am saying is that he HAS trusted the offense at the end of the half before, and the offense hasn't lived up to that trust.
And after cratering at the end of the half, the team is so fragile it can barely play the rest of the game--both offense and defense.
Until the team starts showing more consistency, and less gooning out in face of setbacks, I don't blame him for not having confidence in an offense that hasn't deserved that confidence at the end of the half.
Kubiak gives Carr and the rest of the offense more responsibility after they prove that they deserve it. They have only proved that they are irresponsible at the half, and in a close game, Kubiak isn't gonna open the playbook.
That is why Kubiak started to let Carr throw into double coverage to Andre. Because Kubiak believed that Carr and AJ deserved that through what they have shown on the field. He's been offered that confidence of throwing into double coverage to Andre but not the keys to the 2 minute drill.
Well Ibar, I don't think Kubiak is as bad as you make him out to be, I do think he does have some faults that are adversely affecting the team. I am not in the camp that thinks he is perfect. He is a rookie head coach that needs to be growing this season as well. He does need to evaluate his own performance and adjust accordingly over time. He's has more authority here than he's had before, and that would allow the effects of stubborness (for lack of a better term) to lead to less than ideal decisions.
"Until the team starts showing more consistency, and less gooning out in face of setbacks, I don't blame him for not having confidence in an offense that hasn't deserved that confidence at the end of the half."
JMO, but this is a cop-out. Instead of the team raising their level of play, we 'dumb down' everything until they can handle 'simplified' schemes/plays. We're playing at a level now that mirrors our first year of existence.
What kind of message is being sent to the players that sub standard play will result in less responsiblity, less expectations? IMO, the individuals that are not getting desired results should be identified and replaced. This was another Kubiak promise.
Team. How many posters have defended the notion that one player can't do it by himself, yet we let individuals dictate the way the plays are or are not run. What does Kubiak do if this same situation exists the rest of the year?...just not run a 2 minute drill?
I'm sorry--maybe it's just me--but for 4+ years, we haven't done 'certain' plays/schemes on the field because a) they didn't work the first time we tried them or b) we didn't have the right players or-now- c) someone will get their feelings hurt.............is the NFL not part of the 'real' world?...geeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
JMO, but this is a cop-out. Instead of the team raising their level of play, we 'dumb down' everything until they can handle 'simplified' schemes/plays. We're playing at a level now that mirrors our first year of existence.
What kind of message is being sent to the players that sub standard play will result in less responsiblity, less expectations? IMO, the individuals that are not getting desired results should be identified and replaced. This was another Kubiak promise.
Team. How many posters have defended the notion that one player can't do it by himself, yet we let individuals dictate the way the plays are or are not run. What does Kubiak do if this same situation exists the rest of the year?...just not run a 2 minute drill?
I'm sorry--maybe it's just me--but for 4+ years, we haven't done 'certain' plays/schemes on the field because a) they didn't work the first time we tried them or b) we didn't have the right players or-now- c) someone will get their feelings hurt.............is the NFL not part of the 'real' world?...geeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz