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This Sunday may be Carr’s last.

The fact is this, we all better hope the Carr does well because if you think this year is a roller coaster wait until next year when the team is breaking in Brian Brohm. This year was supposed to be our "one step back, two steps forward" season.

Plus I was hoping that number one pick would be used to help the OL, DB, or LB position.
 
The fact is this, we all better hope the Carr does well because if you think this year is a roller coaster wait until next year when the team is breaking in Brian Brohm. This year was supposed to be our "one step back, two steps forward" season.

Plus I was hoping that number one pick would be used to help the OL, DB, or LB position.


...you really think so? Brohm?
 
Carr throwing for 200 yards tommorow ... over or under ?

Carr getting sacked 5 times ... over or under ?

Carr lasting into the 3rd quarter ... over or under ?
 
1) The Owen Daniels play you mention happened at 8:31 in the first quarter. I know you won't believe this, but that hit was absolutely Salaam's responsibility. He chose to double Pitts's man and leave Daniels hanging out trying to block the defensive end one on one. The TE is supposed to help the tackle, not vice versa. Salaam blew his assignment and Carr was hit as he threw into quad coverage. Even if (and that's a big if) he was supposed to double Pitts's man then turn to the end he did it much too slowly.
I said the same thing when Lundy allowed the hit on David...... Kevin Mathis on Wali Lundy, can you imagine?? But people here said Wali screwed up, and he was given credit for that sack....

But a tight-end should be able to do better than what Owen did on that play(and he usually does) as been said before, we don't know who was responsible for what, we can only talk about what we see. I'd bet Daniels will get the blame on that one all by his lonesome.

For anyone else who wants to see the play, this is the INT David threw early in the game.
2) At 9:15 in the second quarter Salaam's man nailed Carr and it was taken back because of a poor call in the Texans' favor. I'll bet you Carr still felt it though. I'm also sure Salaam didn't get a "good job" in the film review of that play.
I didn't know how to count that hit, or what to say. That was the low blow by KyleVandenbosh..... David looks like he decides to take off, and VandenBosh grabs a leg.

had David stayed in the pocket, and KVB was no where near David, he would have been able to step into the pocket, and throw the ball. Salaam wasn't beat on that play, David try to run past Salaam, and Salaam's man came off his block and got David, after he was already down. thanks to KVB....

Yes, David still felt it, but no, I didn't count it.......

3) After that came the hit that caused the fumble with 8 seconds left. Salaam's man had a hit on that play as you said.

4) At 12:07 in the third quarter Salaam's man blows by him and forces the fumble that gets Carr benched. Salaam's man is the only player who touched Carr.
Yes, I was wrong. I hadn't rewatched the second half till today..... figuring David was only in for a few plays, what are the odds that Salaam allowed a hit on David in that short time.

but you are correct, LaBoy beats him(with a great move) David is sacked, and we lose possesion of the football.
I stopped re-watching at this point, because we are talking about the hits Salaam allowed on Carr and Carr was then out of the game.

By my count in a little over one half of play that was four hits on Carr by Salaam's man. I have to assume you would get dicey and say #1 and # 2 don't count. That still leaves two clear hits in a little over one half.

Are you standing by the conclusion that he gave up no hits against Dallas and Jacksonville? Your argument looks pretty weak to me already since he gave up four in a little over a half against Tennessee.

Consider it denied.

I still count 2 hits from Salaam's man...... not great, but not as bad as what is being said. I would stand by no hits from Salaam's man in the Dallas game, Jacksonville, I need to go rewatch...... which isn't a bad game to rewatch.

Now you rewatched the Tennessee game, you say 4 hits from Salaam's man. Is that good?? or bad?? do we expect Salaam to shut down his man on every play??

We didn't time any of these hits.. should we take that into consideration, or are they supposed to maintain their blocks until the whistle blows??

These 4 hits would constitute hits & pressures coming from Salaam's man.. right?? Did you see anything else get past Salaam as you rewatched the game??

David dropped back 25/28 times, how do you judge Salaam's game based on the 4 hits??

Did you see the poor game Flanagan had?? how many times he got beat?? Aren't you curious as to why Flanagan hasn't been discussed in this whole fiasco??
 
I still count 2 hits from Salaam's man...... not great, but not as bad as what is being said. I would stand by no hits from Salaam's man in the Dallas game, Jacksonville, I need to go rewatch...... which isn't a bad game to rewatch.

Now you rewatched the Tennessee game, you say 4 hits from Salaam's man. Is that good?? or bad?? do we expect Salaam to shut down his man on every play??

We didn't time any of these hits.. should we take that into consideration, or are they supposed to maintain their blocks until the whistle blows??

These 4 hits would constitute hits & pressures coming from Salaam's man.. right?? Did you see anything else get past Salaam as you rewatched the game??

David dropped back 25/28 times, how do you judge Salaam's game based on the 4 hits??

Did you see the poor game Flanagan had?? how many times he got beat?? Aren't you curious as to why Flanagan hasn't been discussed in this whole fiasco??

Is 4 hits by Salaam's man good or bad? Let's extrapolate. 4 hits in a half would be 8 hits in a game. If each of the 5 lineman did that it would be 40 hits in a game. That is bad.

How well Flanagan played really has nothing to do with my point that Salaam is playing poorly. However, it wouldn't surprise me if he is doing poorly too. As I've said before, Weigert is just as bad or worse than Salaam is. There is plenty of badness for everyone to get some credit. I just took exception to the statement that Salaam is playing well.

We have a competent back-up for Flanagan on the roster - he can be replaced. We don't have competent back-ups for both Weigert and Salaam at the same time. That is a problem with our roster management.
 
Is 4 hits by Salaam's man good or bad? Let's extrapolate. 4 hits in a half would be 8 hits in a game. If each of the 5 lineman did that it would be 40 hits in a game. That is bad.

That's 4 hits in 3 Qtrs... That's only 5 per game.

& I'm not saying Salaam is playing well, I'm saying Salaam had one bad game.
 
That's 4 hits in 3 Qtrs... That's only 5 per game.

& I'm not saying Salaam is playing well, I'm saying Salaam had one bad game.

OK, let's quibble:

2 quarters + 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter. 3/15 = 1/5.

2.2 quarters. However, Salaam missed some plays in the second quarter, so he probably played less than 2 quarters worth of football.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt saying 2 quarters. :)


Also, you said he gave up one hit in three games. That isn't exactly saying he had one bad game. I really don't want to look at the Dallas and Jacksonville games either. I already want the 30 minutes of my life back I spent rewatching the Tennessee game last night.
 
Salaam was backing up a rookie LT, so I don't think we need to be expecting much out of him. It just goes to show you how thin we are on the OL. He's a sore spot on the OL but so is Wiegert, who gets paid more. I wonder how things would work if we moved Pitts back to LT, Wiegert back to RG (where he should be), and Salaam to RT. But, apparently Carr has more than one blind spot to protect, so we're probably F'd anyway.
 
Talking about helping Pitts, that's the last guy I would be having other people help. If Pitts (our best O-linemen) can't handle his man 1-on-1, then we're screwed anyway, and Salaam (arguably our weakest--AT LT NO LESS) is the last guy I'd have helping him even if I did send help his way. Salaam is the one who needs help.

Salaam and Weigart--hmmm, anybody think we should use two TEs? Or did we try that last Sunday? I didn't get to see it.
 
Interesting take on the situation. I said well before the preseason that Carr had no future in Houston based on the fans. Now lets add to that what Kubiak has done.

To begin with Kubiak has taught Carr how to do some things such as how to handle the ball and do a better play fake. I've said from the beginning that Carr was and never has been skilled at handing off the ball. His forte plain and simple is the pass. That skill has been buried in the dirt of Reliant Stadium.

Has Kubiak improved the O-line?

Has Kubiak improved the Running game?

Has Kubiak allowed David to stretch the field?

Did Kubiak call the same plays when Sage was playing?

The answer to all of the above is no and I really do wonder what Kubiak is trying to do. Kubiak's game management leaves a lot to be desired. In the last 2 minutes before the half in the last game, he called Capers like plays. We know we are going to have the ball to start the 2nd half and yet we do not take a shot at the end zone. A deep intercepted pass is the same as a punt and probably a lot less close to the end zone and probably a lot less dangerouse as far as a return is concerned. The Titans would have sat on the ball given they had a lead and a young QB. That was the way Fisher was playing the game. At least they would have had to go one heck of a lot further than they did when the fumble occurred.

To be honest I have found very little to be happy about with Kubiak's play calling. I think a lot of us thought he would be a dynamic caller. At this point I would love to see Carr call a game on his own. If he is to go down in flames it might as well be at his own hands. The two times Carr has been his own play caller we have done well.

What is so great about Kubiak's play calling. Manning calls his own plays - some of you question that - but he does and nobody over rules him. I'm still an old time fan who believes the QB as general should call his plays. Whether its Carr or Sage I believe they should call their plays. Kubiak has no feel for the game on the field. He is not standing in the shoes of the QB even though he has been one. He doesn't see what the O-line is doing or feeling. Only the QB in the huddle is able to quiz and knows what is happening. He alone can help his line by calling plays to assist and take advantage of what the other team is doing. Kubiak is trying to micro manage like so many coaches do and he's screwing up this team. LEAVE THE PLAY CALLING TO THE QB's.......

first of all, great post. I have tried to bring this up several times and my post just gets lost in the thread. I'm gonna take it one step further and combine it with another thought someone brought up about Carr never being more than average. I think about carr's games in the past, even when capers was here and I see the same pattern. even when Carr does a good job and we are close at the half, we have never just went for the jugular and let Carr put the other team away. we end up playing a micro managed, kill the clock , dont make any mistakes kinda offense and guess what happens, we make a mistake anyway and kill whatever momentum we may have had. I dont carr has ever had a great game untill the jaguars game because he hasnt been allowed to. Kubiak said when he came here he was gonna play to win all the time, well I havent seen anything yet to improve over capers on the play calling side. IMHO.
 
The Carr drama in a nutshell is ... some folks think he's a victim and some of the brighter , better looking folks think he's an accomplace .

I think you give yourself too much credit, or others not enough. noone is saying or has said "Carr is great , makes no mistakes and is only being kept down from inferior play and coaching around him" we all Know Carr is a project and he's not smooth and hes not perfect. some just think the whole team should be scrutinized as closely as David Carr is .
 
All you have to do to beat the Giants is run the ball,control the clock and force Manning out of the pocket.He likes to go to a 2 minute offense so take your time clearing the pile..There are three players you have to take out of there game Burris Tiki and Manning.I would go after Manning every play from somewhere..Bill Parcells can't beat the Giants because he won't go after the QB.The best thing you can do is force him to over think and confuse the offense with shifts and stunts.Manning is good and you can hit him but he will get up and burn you again.It is hard to stop this guy but if you can get him running and rattle him he will make game changing mistakes..

I've been watching and I don't think Carr is the answer!!The season is over so you may as well face it..The offense suks the defense suks and your leading rusher has 266 yards..Were getting ready to tear this team apart..You better get a QB that can run this offense and Rosenfield is our only hope.I'm not mad at anyone ,,,i'm mad at everyone!We need to find out if the QB can help because the offense is the problem with everything.I'm getting ready to go over everything.Then i'll come back with answers.I would change the QB and go vertical..Its time this team gets rid of the dink and dunk and earn respect.

This is about the worst excuse for a defense you could have.This team need to go back to the basics because they can't do anything.They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass...We need a player that can tackle first..All I can say is get somke consistancy in the offense..Then will get the run defense and the secondary
 
A lot of people have him pegged as a Trent Dilfer type QB (who he's good friends with, btw). Put a good, solid team around him, with a dominant defense, and he can probably be consistent enough to not lose games. Dilfer has a ring, so this isn't a slam on either QB. I just don't see Carr as the type of player in the vein of the 'greats', who can raise everyone around them to play better and often take games to new levels by their sheer willpower.

I dont see Carr as another trent dilfer, I think he has skills and natural ability in spades over dilfer. you know what the saddest part of the whole Carr story is gonna be? Carr will probably never get a chance as a Texan to play with even an average offensive line. and before everyone jumps on me saying "thats the same old excuse". I'm not making an excuse, I'm saying I REALLY wanted to see Carr in action with some decent protection. I think alot of you did also. the whole boselli thing just started Carr on a road wich seemed doomed from the start and nothing was really done to fix it. so now Carr is gun-shy and could be damaged goods. If he has the spirit and the perserverence maybe he can pull out of it, but I think its too late. I just hope if he gets traded he goes to a team that has some form of protection up front.
 
Kyss & Runner.....Question.......

How do y'all know what responsibilities the players have ??
 
Kyss & Runner.....Question.......

How do y'all know what responsibilities the players have ??

They dont for sure, they guess most the time.

I assume you are talking about this statement:

1) The Owen Daniels play you mention happened at 8:31 in the first quarter. I know you won't believe this, but that hit was absolutely Salaam's responsibility. He chose to double Pitts's man and leave Daniels hanging out trying to block the defensive end one on one. The TE is supposed to help the tackle, not vice versa. Salaam blew his assignment and Carr was hit as he threw into quad coverage. Even if (and that's a big if) he was supposed to double Pitts's man then turn to the end he did it much too slowly.

Speaking for myself, here's where my guess came from.

I asked a Texans player last week, "I was looking at the play where Carr got hit pretty hard after throwing the ball into quadruple coverage. Why would the offense be set up to have a tight end blocking a defensive end on a pass play?" Then I listened to what he said and summarized what I heard the best I could.

Therefore, I'm pretty comfortable with my guess in this case.
 
Speaking for myself, here's where my guess came from.

I asked a Texans player last week, "I was looking at the play where Carr got hit pretty hard after throwing the ball into quadruple coverage. Why would the offense be set up to have a tight end blocking a defensive end on a pass play?" Then I listened to what he said and summarized what I heard the best I could.

I don't know what to say about that other than.......o.k
 
I don't know what to say about that other than.......o.k

I clearly stated I have no idea who was supposed to do what..... & I was only reporting what I saw.

Owen had the DE(as he does in many plays) Salaam came to help him but the DE had already beat Owen by the time Salaam got there.
 
I clearly stated I have no idea who was supposed to do what..... & I was only reporting what I saw.

Owen had the DE(as he does in many plays) Salaam came to help him but the DE had already beat Owen by the time Salaam got there.

Im not saying y'all are wrong....I don't even know the play....but you all were arguing about something which IMO, can't really be determined outside of the Texan film meetings....

As an offensive lineman you don't really have assignments...you have rules...because generally you don't know how the defense is going to line up, and you don't know who is going to blitz or not....

I didn't see the play, but if the DT was in a 2, or 3 technique(head up or outside shoulder of the gaurd) and the DE was head up or slightly outside of Daniels, then I could absolutely see Salaam's responsiblity to be to give help to the Gaurd first since that DT would be the closest threat....

But my point is that blocking schemes are so complex, and they most likely change week to week depending on what defense the opponents play and also the personel.... I just don't see how anyone outside of the meeting room can say what they were "supposed to do"....
 
I didn't see the play, but if the DT was in a 2, or 3 technique(head up or outside shoulder of the gaurd) and the DE was head up or slightly outside of Daniels, then I could absolutely see Salaam's responsiblity to be to give help to the Gaurd first since that DT would be the closest threat....

But my point is that blocking schemes are so complex, and they most likely change week to week depending on what defense the opponents play and also the personel.... I just don't see how anyone outside of the meeting room can say what they were "supposed to do"....

Agreed - the o-line job is complex and lots of things go into the choices a lineman makes after reading a defense and hearing the line call. The defensive tackle was the closest threat, sure - they always are. But he was going one on one with Pitts, vs. the end going one on one with Daniels. At best, Salaam's responsibility was to punch Pitts's man and turn outside quickly. He stayed engaged with the tackle too long.
 
Agreed - the o-line job is complex and lots of things go into the choices a lineman makes after reading a defense and hearing the line call. The defensive tackle was closer, sure. But he was going one on one with Pitts, vs. the end going one on one with Daniels. At best, Salaam's responsibility was to punch Pitts's man and turn outside quickly. He stayed engaged with the tackle too long.

That sounds about right....
 
You better get a QB that can run this offense and Rosenfield is our only hope.I'm not mad at anyone ,,,i'm mad at everyone!We need to find out if the QB can help because the offense is the problem with everything.I'm getting ready to go over everything.Then i'll come back with answers.

This is about the worst excuse for a defense you could have.This team need to go back to the basics because they can't do anything.They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass...We need a player that can tackle first..All I can say is get somke consistancy in the offense..Then will get the run defense and the secondary

What? Worst excuse for a defense? A player that can tackle - you mean like Ryans, Weaver, Earl ... ? Who's Rosenfield? What?
Oh no wait - he's going to come back with the answers. Okay - everyone can relax now, apparently everything is in hand. :shoot:
 
But what if the DT was in the 3 position, and got off the ball quicker than Pitts, needing more help, and Salaam had to push him over in front of Pitts....

If he was supposed to help and he felt the DT beating Pitts then he should've stayed...

But you know....A lot of this blocking stuff just depends......There are so many factors that it's not even funny....OL is really complex and it's kind of hard for us regular fans to crack the code and figure out their assignments......

But on our OL and Sacks...Something I noticed about David is that he can't step up in the pocket to save his life....If we are going to ever get deep complex routes David is going to have to be able to step up in the pocket....Even the long throws that we have been throwing have been just fly routes...9's...stop and go's.....Where are the deep crossing routes that take 3-3.5 seconds to develop???

On one play I remember David just drifting...drifting OUT of the pocket only to be hit as he released the ball causing an incompletion....as an O-lineman that has got to be frusrating...
 
If he was supposed to help and he felt the DT beating Pitts then he should've stayed...

But you know....A lot of this blocking stuff just depends......There are so many factors that it's not even funny....OL is really complex and it's kind of hard for us regular fans to crack the code and figure out their assignments......

I understand, & I'm not trying to argue that Salaam did the right thing, or the wrong thing. I said I don't know what he was supposed to do, I was just going to say what he did do.

You said we have no idea what he was supposed to do, and you didn't know which play we were talking about.

Runner said he was supposed to punch the DT, then go help Owen.

You said that sounds right........

Then I gave you a scenario where punching the DT might not have been enough.

Then you tell me that it's too complicated to guess.......

But I'm not guessing, I gave you a what if.

& if we don't believe our TE can block a DE one on one....... then why is he our TE??
 
Runner said he was supposed to punch the DT, then go help Owen.

You said that sounds right........


I'm just saying that what he said sounded reasonable....Meaning I could see that as a possible scenario....

I said the same thing about what you said just in more depth....

I can see what both of you all are saying...but my point was...it's like the question....how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop....

and we all know the answer to that one....
 
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.
 
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.

puuuuhhhhleeeeez.......

How are you going to tell the guy how to act after he just scored the go ahead TD....put his body on the line and just led the Texans on a long drive for a much needed score....Why does he have to keep his emotions in check....The guy was excited, and dammit I was excited for him.....give the guy a break....that's so trivial......
 
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.

Man, did you watch the game? Explain how Carr did not do his job, yes, I was one of those that thought he would not bounce back after last week against the titans especially against this tough Giants defense that beat Dallas. Well, after what I saw today, you can not put this blame on Carr, he was making a run to win the game and Cook simply fumbled the ball. The Texas played the Giants alot better then Dallas did and showed alot of heart and the players really seemed to rally with Carr after he showed balls and jumped into the inzone!

Enough allready with bashing of the QB! Its a team game and things happen, look at what happend to the Dallas yesterday, 3 seconds on the clock and all they had to do is make the FG, what happens, it gets blocked and one of their players got a face mask penality for 15 yards and as a result, the skins won. Anything can happen in the NFL on any given Sunday, im just happy to see the Texans compete now! All we need is a running game and this will be a good team.
 
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.
In my mind, if anyone doubts Carr's heart or enthusiasm after that play I do not want to hear it. I think anyone is open to criticism, but Carr took a beating from fans and played much better against Giants. He stood up for the guys who dropped or fumbled the ball this morning on 610. Give credit where it is due.
 
a little tidbit i have about carr. when he did the little jump-shot to the fans in NY, at first i thought it was funny, but i realize that it was stupid because 1) we lost the game, and 2)we only scored 10 points, and 3) david carr is coming off a benching and shouldnt be worrying about making useless gestures to the fans but rather worrying about winning some games for a change. carr's numbers werent bad, but the offense was inefficient. it was cool when mario did the jump-shot because he played well and did his job. carr did not.


I'd have to go back and look at some of your previous posts, but my guess on why you are so negative is because you love Vince Young????? You are not even from here. What gives? Then again, nevermind. You can still be loving him next year when David and the guys get us to the playoffs. :mario:
 
Here you go ... enjoy!

OnNotice-1.jpg

lol: lol:
 
BTW, it's sad everyone was so busy blah blah blahing about Carr they missed possibly the two of the funniest posts on here, ever :redtowel:
 
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