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How different is Kubiak really?

Ibar. I know you like Carr. A lot. I think he can play, and I've seen improvement in his play this season (particularly in not taking unncessary sacks). But, your post is causing me mental distress because it is so off the mark. I have bolded the areas that are particularly damaging to the brain, tho just because I haven't bolded something, doesn't mean I agree with it--it just means it is normal strange instead of from the planet Bizarro or something.

The Texans ran the ball only 14 times last game. It just seemed like more because the runs were so terrible they cause post traumatic stress symptoms.

You want Carr to be in charge of calling the plays because he did it last year successfully? If you listen to his interview about that, he says they did that because the cobbled together playbook between the Pendry and Palmer stuff was so confusing that Pendry just threw up his hands and said you call it.

QBs and other offensive players do tell their coaches what is happening on the field.

Kubiak is going to give Carr as much responsibility has he believes Carr has earned. Last week was a regression. Kubiak is not just developing Carr, he is working with an entire team, and he has to find ways to make the entire team better. At this point, I see more improvement in Carr than with just about any other aspect of the team.

Yes, and he needs to be able to focus on other parts of his team while the QB leads the offense. Again, this is a difference in Philosophy as much as anythng. I believe the QB has to lead the offense and that means calling the plays. Manning is the complete QB, because he can and does call the plays. He is a field general. Carr needs the opportunity to develop that skill to aid Kubiak. When you are making the plays it keeps your head in the game and focused. Have someone calling the plays is like having someone tell you where to move the pieces during a chess match. You might be able to move the pieces, but you probably have no idea why its being done. As I have stated, I want the QB, whoever he is, calling the plays. I want a leader on the field.
 
Contrary to what Dan Reeves told McNair, our problem wasn't the coach, our problem is the players.

No one could coach these players. Casserly wasted 5 offseasons.

Can we finally admit that Joppru is a bust?

our talent level is/was extremely poor, but dont let capers, fangio, palmer, & pendry off the hook. our coaching staff was just as pathetic as the players. the only thing getting us wins was veterans on defense and DD carrying the offense.
 
I totally agree with IBAR.

I think the QB should be the team general and call most of the plays.

It is a shame that most NFL coaches want total control of the play calling.

bobby 119C
 
Kubiak will be the man - give him time.

He's made one mistake - he will always have to answer the 'what if' question for not picking Bush though. And not selecting Bush will slow down his rebuilding effort.
 
I'm not saying that Kubiak should not be given a chance. But I also am not willing to just assume he's a good hire because he worked for winning organization and is a hometown boy or because Bob McNair and Charley Casserly thought he was a good hire.
If this is the way you felt when we were waiting for Denver to finish their play-off run, so we can announce that we've awarded the HC job to GK, then that's fine, that's understandable. IT's a valid opinion. Many of us felt differently, becuase of his work with successful organiztions, and his history with QBs. Personally for me, it was a plus that he was a player(I like coaches who played the game)..... a QB at that.
That smacks of homerism - particularly given the early results.
Why, were you expecting us to be 4-2 at this point in the season?? he had three weeks to teach these guys how to play football the right way, taking them all back to square one, and he's supposed to run through teams like the #1 rated offense(Philly, 26th Defense), the #4 offense(Indy, 20th defense), the #11 offense(Washington, 22nd defense), the #21 rated offense(Miami, 4th defense), and the #6 rated offense(Dallas, 8th Defense).
In other words, it better change fast or his leash should be short. In my judgment, you don't get regularly embarassed if you are worth your salt as a coach, so this better end fast.
Again..... understandable, if you thought/think our players are decent, and were cautious of GK back in the day.
Now lets put this back on the fans that support Kubes no matter what - what improvement have you seen in the team to date with Kubes in charge? About the only improvement I see is with David. That's a big improvement, but that just shows me he is a good QB coach. I already pretty much knew that.
David's playing better. It's easy to see, because he has the ball more than anyone else on our team. fumbling and bumbling through 4 games... and he gets this game, where he looked...... better. His numbers have been good, etc. The Oline.... it's hard to tell, because our QB is still getting sacked, and we are having difficulty running the ball. It's also hard to tell, when we've had at least one new starter every week since Week1. But watching them in SlowMo, you can see what they've been working on in their off week. They are moving well together, we have very few penalties on the offensive line.

DL, we change something every week, but we've sacked McNabb(1), Peyton(2), Culpepper(5), Bledsoe(2)....... not bad. we're not leading the league, but 2 sacks/game should be pretty respectable. & Mario was in Bledsoe's face all day.

LBs... Demeco is the real deal. Orr stepped it up this past Sunday

DBS..(??)None of the Dallas recievers had more than 50 yards this past Sunday..... granted they probably avg'd starting on our 30... but hey...

I'm seeing enough steady improvement on our team to keep me happy. The only place I've been disappointed, is in the play from our DBs, and our reluctance to address the problem.
Otherwise, I see a team very willing to capitulate and fall apart when things don't go there way. Not what I was hoping for and you can't throw 100% of this at the players.
True.....

Contrary to what Dan Reeves told McNair, our problem wasn't the coach, our problem is the players.

No one could coach these players. Casserly wasted 5 offseasons.

Can we finally admit that Joppru is a bust?
For one, I'm not happy with some of our players approach to their coaching. So what you don't like the 3-4, and you'd rather be playing in a 4-3. We're paying you to play in a 4-3. Suck it up, and do the best that you can. Even if the ultimate goal is to be traded to a team that plays a 4-3, if you suck in a 3-4, who's going to pay you to see if you still suck in a 4-3?? other than Houston??

Offensively, I thought we've always had the talent to be better than 8-8.


Yes, and he needs to be able to focus on other parts of his team while the QB leads the offense. Again, this is a difference in Philosophy as much as anythng. I believe the QB has to lead the offense and that means calling the plays. Manning is the complete QB, because he can and does call the plays. He is a field general. Carr needs the opportunity to develop that skill to aid Kubiak.

I agree with some of this. It would be nice, if Carr could call the plays. But right now, only one QB in the NFL calls his own plays. Only one QB in the history of the NFL, that I know of calls his own plays to the extent of that one guy.

From a coaches standpoint, it is very much like playing Chess. Kubiak & Parcells put their pieces in position to make plays. It's up to the players to execute.

But there are plenty of field generals (Elway, Aikman, Montana, Kelly, Brady, Palmer, Leftwhich, etc...) that don't call their own plays.

If it is even possible for Carr to earn that responsibility, he'll have to come to the sideline, and explain to his coach what he sees, and what he thinks will work. Sooner or later, the coach is going to trust him, and go with his suggestion. The more frequently that happens, the sooner he can start calling his own audibles. When he starts calling audibles with success, he can start working on calling his own plays. that's the way it happened with Manning. Jim Mora didn't just say,"Okay, I'm sending you out there on offense, what personnel should I send with you??" It's something that he's earned over time.
 
I totally agree with IBAR.

I think the QB should be the team general and call most of the plays.

It is a shame that most NFL coaches want total control of the play calling.

bobby 119C

Because it's not that easy(unless we're talking about Madden). You've got different personnel, for different plays. How's it gonna look if Carr wants to call a deep passing route when Kubiak put the short yardage personell on the field??

John Elway, BubbyBrister, TommyMaddux, BrianGriese...... etc... they've all had the ability to call audibles.... So far, it looks like there is only one QB Kubiak does not trust to call audibles. maybe that's part of his training..... & maybe it's something Kubiak needs to develop....

Maybe our boy doesn't understand the game as he should. After all, this is the second HC, and third OC that hasn't allowed him to call an audible......

I think it's too early to say, but when I see Sage Rosenfleds get on the field with 4 WRs and a single back..... it makes you wonder.
 
Kubes does need more time. I think he is a good hire. As a Texan fan and a football fan in general, it does get frustrating to watch this team play. Capers has ruined Carr. Yes, he is playing better, but he is in his 5th year!!! When i look at Matt Leinart, Rivers, Rothlesburger, E. Manning, and even VY, they have all this swagger and confidence i wish we had in a QB. They may have a better team around them, but you can see the difference in the way they look, on the field and on the side lines. Carr looks like a deer in headlights. All this because he has been running and on the turf his whole 4 year carreer because of who the coaching staff put on the line.

I agree with everyone that we need 3 years with Kubiak. In 3 years, this will be a totally different team, including possibly the QB. If the team is still losing, then we need to talk about firing Kubiak. Not now!!!

There is one MAJOR flaw in your post, Steeler, Charger,Titan, & Giant defenses make us look like little leaguers, although the Giant D has not played to last years level. When the Titans play us, they bring a D that kept the Colts close, we haven't done that in two years. In short if your QB's were on the sideline as long as Carr would you still say the same.
 
WHAT DO I THINK.....I think we got a bunch of babies need wet nursing or a sugar teat...we want to win NOW!!! not next year we don't care if you build us a team that lasts for next 5 years like New England Patriots Mr. Kubiak, we will hold our breath until we turn blue and roll on floor throwing a tantrum because you didn't wave your magic wand and make us.......WIN RIGHT NOW!!!

EXCUSE ME, got to go throw up at childish immaturity of a generation raised on fast food and I want it now ME ME ME

:thumbup :perfect10:
 
At 1 & 4 letting Carr call the plays couldn't hurt. Ya'll want to give Kubiak 3 more years and yet you don't want Carr calling the plays in at least one game ? I like bringing up New Orleans because they were in a simular situation at the beginning of the season, new head caoch, new defense, new offense, new center,new RB, new punt/kick returner, but that all changed when the real season started as NO came out to win and Kubiak was lost. Look back at the Eagle game, we march down to score then go 3/4 and out, due to the lack of a running game, and he continues to do this. We scored first against the Cowboys, then "let's prove we can run", we can't, we punt, we get the ball back, and prove it again. If it works don't fix it. if it doesn't work move on.
Just a thought, when the season ticket sales go down and the games are no longer televised who will Kubiak blame then.
 
Maybe our boy doesn't understand the game as he should. After all, this is the second HC, and third OC that hasn't allowed him to call an audible......

Do you have a quote for this assertion? And I don't mean from another MB poster ....



I think it's too early to say, but when I see Sage Rosenfleds get on the field with 4 WRs and a single back..... it makes you wonder.

What does this make you wonder? Why we would be in a 4 Wide set down by 20-something points with little or no time left? Please expound ...
 
I believe the QB has to lead the offense and that means calling the plays. Manning is the complete QB, because he can and does call the plays. He is a field general.

You are so off base and have been told this repeatedly before. NO NFL QB calls his own plays on a consistant basis. Manning does not call his own plays. The OC sends in a three play package--usually two passing, one running. Manning is then supposed to pick between the plays based on reading the D on largely predetermined reads. Aikman wasn't even allowed to audible during the SB years. No QB goes into the huddle and picks the play all on his own.
 
You are so off base and have been told this repeatedly before. NO NFL QB calls his own plays on a consistant basis. Manning does not call his own plays. The OC sends in a three play package--usually two passing, one running. Manning is then supposed to pick between the plays based on reading the D on largely predetermined reads. Aikman wasn't even allowed to audible during the SB years. No QB goes into the huddle and picks the play all on his own.

Just repsosting for ummphhh....
 
You are so off base and have been told this repeatedly before. NO NFL QB calls his own plays on a consistant basis. Manning does not call his own plays. The OC sends in a three play package--usually two passing, one running. Manning is then supposed to pick between the plays based on reading the D on largely predetermined reads. Aikman wasn't even allowed to audible during the SB years. No QB goes into the huddle and picks the play all on his own.

Double ohmmfff, just in case it was missed the first and second time.
 
Do you have a quote for this assertion? And I don't mean from another MB poster ....
Fine, let's do it your way. Let's say Kubiak has given David the lattitude to change a play at the LOS. Heck, let's say it's you behind center. Coach called a run to the right. Owen Daniels is sread far right, and covering him is the OLB GregEllis. Do You:

1. call for Owen Daniels to motion to RT, bringing said OLB closer to the line
2. run the play leaving Owen Daniels & said OLB out there hugging the sideline
3. audible to a pass play with OwenDaniels isolated on a big ole LB, that can't run with OwenDaniel.

I'd much rather believe that David can't call audibles yet, than to believe he chose the worse of the three options.
What does this make you wonder? Why we would be in a 4 Wide set down by 20-something points with little or no time left? Please expound ...

You're right. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Kubiak would do with David in that same situation......... hmmm...
 
Read this and tell me why you think Kubiak should be blamed for the way things have gone so far.

The problem with this team, the core problem, is they simply don't have the talent. Horrible decisions from the Capers era have been thrown into Kubiak's lap.

I can't figure out why people can't see this. It's going to take time whether you want to wait or not. Period
 
Fine, let's do it your way. Let's say Kubiak has given David the lattitude to change a play at the LOS. Heck, let's say it's you behind center. Coach called a run to the right. Owen Daniels is sread far right, and covering him is the OLB GregEllis. Do You:

1. call for Owen Daniels to motion to RT, bringing said OLB closer to the line
2. run the play leaving Owen Daniels & said OLB out there hugging the sideline
3. audible to a pass play with OwenDaniels isolated on a big ole LB, that can't run with OwenDaniel.

I'd much rather believe that David can't call audibles yet, than to believe he chose the worse of the three options.

ok so you don't have a quote from a "reliable non-MB poster" source .... this is your own opinion which will be backed up with as much text as your fingers can produce .... is that right?

You're right. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Kubiak would do with David in that same situation......... hmmm...

deal ..... hmmmmmm
 
ok so you don't have a quote from a "reliable non-MB poster" source .... this is your own opinion which will be backed up with as much text as your fingers can produce .... is that right?
5 games. Do you remember seeing David audible once in five games?? Does that seem normal to you??
deal ..... hmmmmmm

The point is that David has been in that situation 3 times.... Philly, Indy, and Washington...... no 4 WRs, no single back.....

hmmm...
 
I gotta be honest with you man I'm not privy to the calls in the huddle or at the line .... are you?

Doesn't matter. 5 NFL games, without an audible is a rarity.

People want to know why we can't use our passing game to substitute for the running game??

Because we don't call audibles...... we can't take advantage of obvious mismatches.
 
Doesn't matter. 5 NFL games, without an audible is a rarity.

People want to know why we can't use our passing game to substitute for the running game??

Because we don't call audibles...... we can't take advantage of obvious mismatches.

So you know for a fact that Carr is forbidden to audible? ...... head immediately to www.titansonline.com and don't come back .....
 
Doesn't matter. 5 NFL games, without an audible is a rarity.

People want to know why we can't use our passing game to substitute for the running game??

Because we don't call audibles...... we can't take advantage of obvious mismatches.

It isn't a rarity--it is a non-fact. There have been audibles.

By the way coaches have hugely different ideas about audibles. As mentioned previously, Aikman who is considered one of the smarter guys to play the position, wasn't allowed to audible at all under JJ. That wasn't a sign he was dumb, it was the system.

And no I am not going to go back and disprove your tripe "there have been no audibles assertion" so carry on with it over and over like your "we have a pretty good running game" campaign.
 
So you know for a fact that Carr is forbidden to audible? ...... head immediately to www.titansonline.com and don't come back .....

I never said he I know for a fact that he is forbidden to audible. I said I know for a fact that he hasn't...... Either way you look at it, being by his design, or Kubiaks, it doesn't look good. Either the Coach don't let him, or he failed to do so in situations when we got mismatches that would favor us.

And no I am not going to go back and disprove your tripe "there have been no audibles assertion" so carry on with it over and over like your "we have a pretty good running game" campaign.

Fine. you don't want to go back and prove me wrong.

Anyone else remember David calling an audible of any kind during a regular season game?? If so, which one?? what happened??

& thankyou for your permission to carry on.
 
I said I know for a fact that he hasn't......

BS. Seriously you need to lay off the crack pipe or try to take somewhat outlying positions to be controversial instead of just plain whack ones.

Whatever--the running game is good, Carr never audibles, Buchanon is our best DB--I hope folks are draining your credibiliy meter down.
 
BS. Seriously you need to lay off the crack pipe or try to take somewhat outlying positions to be controversial instead of just plain whack ones.

Whatever--the running game is good, Carr never audibles, Buchanon is our best DB--I hope folks are draining your credibiliy meter down.

You're right, I found an audible........ washington game.
2nd QTR
6:18 1st & 20 3WR, single back.
the CBs are 10 yards off the ball, the safeties are 15 yards off the ball. Carr checks to another play.
a line backer lined up on PUtz(in the slot) moves down, showing Blitz. Carr hollers at PUtz, Putz waves at Carr, they snap the ball, and Carr delivers a 4 yard pass to Putz. Jeb then runs away from the approaching LB, and gains another 8 yards before he is tackled.


So I was wrong. It's not that David Can't call audibles, he just missed obvious situations to check out of running plays that weren't working, to take advantage of obvious mismatches that were in our favor.
 
You're right, I found an audible........ washington game.
2nd QTR
6:18 1st & 20 3WR, single back.
the CBs are 10 yards off the ball, the safeties are 15 yards off the ball. Carr checks to another play.
a line backer lined up on PUtz(in the slot) moves down, showing Blitz. Carr hollers at PUtz, Putz waves at Carr, they snap the ball, and Carr delivers a 4 yard pass to Putz. Jeb then runs away from the approaching LB, and gains another 8 yards before he is tackled.


So I was wrong. It's not that David Can't call audibles, he just missed obvious situations to check out of running plays that weren't working, to take advantage of obvious mismatches that were in our favor.

You can't read the friggin play by plays and find out if he audibled--you have to watch the games.
 
You can't read the friggin play by plays and find out if he audibled--you have to watch the games.

how does any of that make you think I'm watching the play by play?? I'm telling you the LB moved down to rush the passer, that Carr stepped back from center, and hollered in the direction of Putz, and that Putz waved back at David.

I'm watching the washington game right now.
 
how does any of that make you think I'm watching the play by play?? I'm telling you the LB moved down to rush the passer, that Carr stepped back from center, and hollered in the direction of Putz, and that Putz waved back at David.

I'm watching the washington game right now.

step away from the keyboard .... some nice men in white coats are on their way .... they can help you ....
 
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