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Our Secondary Is Terrible--Ahmad Carroll.

Why the heck has Buchanon not been on the field. Is he really that bad in the coaches eyes? Surely he can't be that bad, can he?
 
Tayton said:
I have said for several months that WE NEED ANOTHER CORNER. No one seemed to listen. That being said, and I may be the only one to say this, but I have been pleasanty surprised with Sanders. Maybe it's because I expected so very little. I am not a Faggins fan and don't think he is a significant upgrade over Sanders. Our nickle package will be better when Faggins gets back. Sanders is not a great cover corner but has ben in position to make some plays and he can tackle. I personally think Buchanan is pretty useless both in coverage and tackling, and misses alot of wholes in the return game. (Sorry for the run on sentences but I'm tired.)
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If you want to shut down a WR, you put a guy like Buchannon on him, and let him do what he do. PBuchanon can be a shutdown corner, much more so than Dunta. If you need your corners for run Support, then Dunta is your man.

So far, the only bad play I've seen from Sanders, was biting on the playfake, and letting Stallworth score that TD. ChrisChambers did get away from him once, but landed out of bounds. Other than that, he's actually been more of a shutdown corner than Dunta, and has had more opportunity to intercept passes(if dude could catch, he'd have 6 by now).

Dunta is getting beat on the line, on the run, being turned around by guys with surgically repaired knees....... & he hasn't been looking for the ball.
 
Tayton said:
I am not a Faggins fan and don't think he is a significant upgrade over Sanders.
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Faggins would have INT'd 2-3 of the 5 opportunities Sanders has blown so far. Sanders has done better than I expected but those kinds of opportunities being cashed in on are what elevates teams.
 
Ahmad Carroll has been considered a bust for a while...but I agree with aj and infantry up there ^^...some players are late bloomers or just need another start on a fresh team. Won't hurt to give him a look-see.
 
Those that think that our only bad play has come from Sanders haven't been watching McCleon. I'm missing what evidence there may be that Buchanan is a "shut down corner". We don't have one of them.
 
Tayton said:
I'm missing what evidence there may be that Buchanan is a "shut down corner".
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He has good footwork and the athletic ability to stay with and jump with most recievers....He also is pretty good at finding the ball once it has been thrown...The only thing buch lacks is a physical nature...:twocents:
 
Tayton said:
Those that think that our only bad play has come from Sanders haven't been watching McCleon. I'm missing what evidence there may be that Buchanan is a "shut down corner". We don't have one of them.
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Buchanan is the Cowardly Lion of cornerbacks.....but there is no Oz in the NFL. Nobody is going to grant him a heart. imo Sanders and McCleon have both struggled.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
He has good footwork and the athletic ability to stay with and jump with most recievers....He also is pretty good at finding the ball once it has been thrown...The only thing buch lacks is a physical nature...:twocents:
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pretty good at finding the ball? i don't know what you've been looking at but all i've seen from dude since he got here is terrible footwork & missed tackles. Now having said that, all of our DB's are looking like that, but at least all of them will make a tackle every now & then.
 
Vinny said:
Ahmad Carroll has been considered a bust for a while...but I agree with aj and infantry up there ^^...some players are late bloomers or just need another start on a fresh team. Won't hurt to give him a look-see.
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Agreed. Maybe he needs a change of scenery.
 
O.G. said:
Agreed. Maybe he needs a change of scenery.
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That's what they said about P-burnt, & look what he has brought to the team. IMO, they need to replace CC & Morlon Greenwood. Whether you guys believe it or not, the LB's play a huge role in coverage as well.
 
Mr teX said:
That's what they said about P-burnt, & look what he has brought to the team. IMO, they need to replace CC & Morlon Greenwood. Whether you guys believe it or not, the LB's play a huge role in coverage as well.
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The big difference is that nobody is going to give up two picks for Carroll. Linebackers generally zone the underneath stuff....I wouldn't call it a "huge" role. Our sam stuggles much more than our will in coverage so far.
 
I'm sure it's already been said, but I'll go ahead and say it again. Carroll has got to be better than McCleon so provided he comes at a reasonable price then go for it.
 
In case you didn't see the Washington game, that's all Brunell threw was "underneath" stuff & yeah i agree about the draft picks but Carroll's already had 2 years in the league & I am just not a firm believer in the "change of scenery" thing with anyone other than QBs.
 
Mr teX said:
In case you didn't see the Washington game, that's all Brunell threw was "underneath" stuff & yeah i agree about the draft picks but Carroll's already had 2 years in the league & I am just not a firm believer in the "change of scenery" thing with anyone other than QBs.
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I probably go over games as obsessively as anyone here and stand behind my comment. I'd blame our scheme as much or more than our players with that Washington debacle.
 
Here's a Green Bay fan's perspective from the NFL Fanhouse:

Link

Since being drafted by Mike Sherman in the first round of the 2004 NFL draft, Carroll had been a cancer both on and off the field, displaying both a lack of maturity and an complete inability to cover wideouts without making illegal contact. While he seemed to have all of the athletic tools and potential to eventually turn into a good corner, Carroll's cocky attitude and lack of a learning curve made him popular with only the men in zebra stripes.
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NJ Texan said:
Wasn't Carroll released? Meaning we could pick him off of waivers? Or am I wrong here?
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No, he's still in GB, getting eaten alive out there. Case in point, in the Philly game he came off the bench when woodson went down, & Philly IMMEDIATELY went after him & he didn't disappoint.
 
Mr teX said:
No, he's still in GB, getting eaten alive out there. Case in point, in the Philly game he came off the bench when woodson went down, & Philly IMMEDIATELY went after him & he didn't disappoint.
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He was released.
 
Vinny said:
I probably go over games as obsessively as anyone here and stand behind my comment. I'd blame our scheme as much or more than our players with that Washington debacle.
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Agreed, just as long you know that our personel is trash as well.
 
mexican_texan said:
We're trying to get rid of CC Brown, not Glenn Earl. Glenn Earl is the only DB making plays.
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exactly. glenn earl has been the only guy forcing turnovers. he is the closest thing the texans have to a troy polamalu. i say we take a chance on ahmad carroll. of course he has ties to sherman. its really a low risk and possibly a rewwarding risk. the thing with the secondary not being able to cover has alot to do with the front 7. either they sack the QB or they dont get close at all. most of the time, the turnovers are forced when the sack isnt made, but the QB is having to scramble and throw on the run and out of timing that is most effective.
 
Since being drafted by Mike Sherman in the first round of the 2004 NFL draft, Carroll had been a cancer both on and off the field, displaying both a lack of maturity and an complete inability to cover wideouts without making illegal contact. While he seemed to have all of the athletic tools and potential to eventually turn into a good corner, Carroll's cocky attitude and lack of a learning curve made him popular with only the men in zebra stripes.
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Maybe the dude just hasn't had the right leader and coach to show him the way. If he's got the goods, then it's all in his head, and there is a chance that someone could focus him to be a productive corner.

I say give him a chance. We need the help, and if he turns it around, he'll be happy to be here. If he sucks, let him go.
 
Mmmm, that says "He is a cancer both on and off the field", does that sound like the type of guy we usually pick up?
 
edo783 said:
Mmmm, that says "He is a cancer both on and off the field", does that sound like the type of guy we usually pick up?
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No, it doesn't. But at some point we're going to have to put the "character first" requirement away and look for dudes that can straight up play ball. Not saying Carroll is 'the man', but there are many good players with questionable backgrounds that get overlooked because of our owner's desire to put a team of boy scouts on the field.
 
Double Barrel said:
No, it doesn't. But at some point we're going to have to put the "character first" requirement away and look for dudes that can straight up play ball. Not saying Carroll is 'the man', but there are many good players with questionable backgrounds that get overlooked because of our owner's desire to put a team of boy scouts on the field.
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would you be opposed to a Bengals-like team then?
 
texasguy346 said:
I'm sure it's already been said, but I'll go ahead and say it again. Carroll has got to be better than McCleon so provided he comes at a reasonable price then go for it.
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It hasn't from what I've seen and I agree. You are getting a player a 3rd of the season in so what is it that you are risking?
 
edo783 said:
Mmmm, that says "He is a cancer both on and off the field", does that sound like the type of guy we usually pick up?
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It's just the opinion of one Green Bay fan, and I was only posting it to give a Green Bay fan point of view and why he would get let go. I was not posting it as fact, because I don't know myself what his story is.

Sometimes guys that don't live up to their contracts just get into such a hole with their original teams that they just have to go elsewhere.
 
Carroll was known for his use of illegal contact to gain advantage over receivers. He was repeatedly burned and was well known for this throughout the league. Many taller and faster receivers could take advantage of his lack of attention and weak man coverage. Many teams knew that if they passed to the receiver he was covering that a penalty would usually follow. He was known by a few nicknames in the league and they were "Highway 28" and "Grabby Smurf".

Ahmad Carroll was cut by Green Bay after the worst game of his career in the loss to the Philadelphia Eagles on October 2, 2006. The game was televised on Monday Night Football by ESPN.

Batman was arrested for beating up a bouncer in a Fayetteville, Arkansas bar in February 2006. [1]

[edit]
NFL career
• 34 Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll

• 28 Games in which Carroll started

• 33 Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll

• 26 Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding

• 256 Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty

• 11½ Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage

• 3 Interceptions by Carroll

• $1.8 million Remaining portion of the $3.95 million in guaranteed money Carroll received as a rookie that the Packers must count against their salary cap either this year or next[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Carroll
 
Texian said:
Carroll was known for his use of illegal contact to gain advantage over receivers. He was repeatedly burned and was well known for this throughout the league. Many taller and faster receivers could take advantage of his lack of attention and weak man coverage. Many teams knew that if they passed to the receiver he was covering that a penalty would usually follow. He was known by a few nicknames in the league and they were "Highway 28" and "Grabby Smurf".

Ahmad Carroll was cut by Green Bay after the worst game of his career in the loss to the Philadelphia Eagles on October 2, 2006. The game was televised on Monday Night Football by ESPN.

Batman was arrested for beating up a bouncer in a Fayetteville, Arkansas bar in February 2006. [1]

[edit]
NFL career
• 34 Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll

• 28 Games in which Carroll started

• 33 Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll

• 26 Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding

• 256 Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty

• 11½ Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage

• 3 Interceptions by Carroll

• $1.8 million Remaining portion of the $3.95 million in guaranteed money Carroll received as a rookie that the Packers must count against their salary cap either this year or next[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Carroll
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Good info. After reading that I think we should not take a look at him.
 
mexican_texan said:
Can't say I agree. It's embarassing to see your team's player's in the news for DUIs and suicide attempts.
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I don't deny the embarrassment for the team (why would you be personally embarrassed?). But character alone should not be the deciding factor.

Just about every championship team has it's share of miscreants, usually balanced out with good character guys. But the one thing they all have in common is that they are great football players, first and foremost.

I just don't want a front office that consistently looks over players because they might have a black mark in their past. I don't think it's that unreasonable, to be honest with you.

These guys are not role models to me or my kid. They are entertainers, and they are human. Nobody is perfect. Can you imagine if we held our music and movie stars to the same standards?
 
I see everyone saying how he get burned and alot penalties but watch how salty everyone is going to be after the bye week and we have to face Terry Glenn and TO, our corners against them HA!!! sometimes i feel bad for D-Rob but mark my words i don't want to hear no complaints after they give up about 5 touchdowns, I'm just hoping our offense can outplay their offense
 
I am praying for Philly to beat the Cowboys up a bit. I never pray for injuries, but a few dents and dings will do.
 
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