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Texans General Draft discussion

steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Lucky said:
But the Texans have maneuvered in FA to avoid having to play a rookie LT. If they don't go LT in this draft they would be extending the bridge LT situation to 2 years. Likely drafting in the bottom 10 of the 2026 draft, having to move way up would still be in play. And if the 2016 draft is considered a notch above 2025, moving up would be more expensive and more difficult.

Looking at the time value of draft picks, 2025 makes the most sense for taking a LT.
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I agree with you, but unless Banks falls outside of the top 15-20 I cant see Caserio trading up, particularly if he thinks the 2026 draft is a better draft to pick a LT.

I saw a mock draft where both Golden and Loveland were there at 1-25. If the draft falls this way who are you drafting? Also Loveland wasn't drafted in rd 1, how much would you be willing to give up to move to say 2-35 , 2-40 to pick either Loveland or Taylor?
 
steelbtexan said:
I saw a mock draft where both Golden and Loveland were there at 1-25. If the draft falls this way who are you drafting? Also Loveland wasn't drafted in rd 1, how much would you be willing to give up to move to say 2-35 , 2-40 to pick either Loveland or Taylor?
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I have to see where we are with the offensive line before trading away picks for TEs. I think the TEs dropping is real. It's just not a valued position in the league, for whatever reason.
 
steelbtexan said:
I consider the TE position to be part of the OL.
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But Loveland isn't considered a plus blocker. From what I can ascertain, he's not going to competley embarrass himself, but he's really a pass catcher...a weapon for the offense.

Between he and Golden? Close for me...but we have an obvious need at the X WR spot, and I think Golden could fill that spot and provide some juice on the outside with those wheels.

I'd take Golden...but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if Loveland was the choice. Having a true number #1 TE - worthy of the title...would also help this offense. But then we'd need an answer at X.
 
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Porky said:
But Loveland isn't considered a plus blocker. From what I can ascertain, he's not going to competley embarrass himself, but he's really a pass catcher...a weapon for the offense.

Between he and Golden? Close for me...but we have an obvious need at the X WR spot, and I think Golden could fill that spot and provide some juice on the outside with those wheels.

I'd take Golden...but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if Loveland was the choice. Having a true number #1 TE - worthy of the title...would also help this offense. But then we'd need an answer at X.
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If we are not getting a plus blocker at tight end why don't we sign Harold Fannin? He's a better receiver than Loveland. I agree with you on Golden.
 
Porky said:
But Loveland isn't considered a plus blocker. From what I can ascertain, he's not going to competley embarrass himself, but he's really a pass catcher...a weapon for the offense.

Between he and Golden? Close for me...but we have an obvious need at the X WR spot, and I think Golden could fill that spot and provide some juice on the outside with those wheels.

I'd take Golden...but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if Loveland was the choice. Having a true number #1 TE - worthy of the title...would also help this offense. But then we'd need an answer at X.
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Loveland did a really good job blocking for Corum in 2023. A RB doesn't get the types of yds Corum got without a good blocking TE. He hurt his shoulder last yr (If you dont want to draft him this would be the reason I wouldn't draft him) and suffered from terrible QB play. Which is why he fell behind Warren to TE2 in this class.

Also go checkout Kyle Williams tape and tell me what's the difference between him and Golden?
 
steelbtexan said:
Loveland did a really good job blocking for Corum in 2023. A RB doesn't get the types of yds Corum got without a good blocking TE. He hurt his shoulder last yr (If you dont want to draft him this would be the reason I wouldn't draft him) and suffered from terrible QB play. Which is why he fell behind Warren to TE2 in this class.

Also go checkout Kyle Williams tape and tell me what's the difference between him and Golden?
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Kyle Williams is a better slot than outside in the NFL while Golden is very good everywhere. Golden has a higher floor but IMO, both have high ceilings in what I think our new system is going to be. The main difference is golden will be a round one and Williams will probably go fifth round. That pretty much even things up for me. This is one of the players that I would refer to in my trade down scenarios of getting third round and later pics.

Let me correct something that I might have implied by saying Williams is a better slot than an outside. He could be an extremely good X with the right coaching. I would not be surprised either if he went round 3.
 
steelbtexan said:
While I agree with you, the TE has a large part in the success/failure of the OL. I consider the TE position to be an extension of the OL. I would be very happy with rds 1-3.

1-25 Loveland
2-58 Milum
3-79 Kyle Williams
3-89 Shemar Turner or Ty Robinson
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Williams looks like a pretty good prospect—probably more of a third —or fourth-rounder. I doubt he lasts to 5, but who knows?

The finer points separate players in the draft. Maybe Williams is the better pro, but Golden will likely be better as it stands now.

While it's true I haven't seen much of Williams, the general consensus is that Golden is much more polished as a route runner, a bit faster, and has better hands.

The general consensus is that Williams is a good WR#2 and Golden is a high-end WR#2 with a higher floor than Williams.

But because I've seen very little (if any) of Williams, I'll defer more to those who have watched enough of him to judge better, including you.
 
Porky said:
Williams looks like a pretty good prospect—probably more of a third —or fourth-rounder. I doubt he lasts to 5, but who knows?

The finer points separate players in the draft. Maybe Williams is the better pro, but Golden will likely be better as it stands now.

While it's true I haven't seen much of Williams, the general consensus is that Golden is much more polished as a route runner, a bit faster, and has better hands.

The general consensus is that Williams is a good WR#2 and Golden is a high-end WR#2 with a higher floor than Williams.

But because I've seen very little (if any) of Williams, I'll defer more to those who have watched enough of him to judge better, including you.
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There's not much difference IMHO. You should check both of them out.

3-79 and 3-89 are 3rd rd picks.
 
steelbtexan said:
There's not much difference IMHO. You should check both of them out.

3-79 and 3-89 are 3rd rd picks.
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Gotta give you credit on Williams. I sort of accidentally came across PFT Live this morning, and Chris Simms laid out his top receivers. Travis Hunter first…. And #2 none other than your guy Kyle Williams. Simms loves him some Kyle Williams. He has McMillion next…then another of your guys Noel as #4. But he spent several minutes explaining what makes Williams special and why he thinks he will end up outperforming some of the bigger names in this draft. That’s one guy’s opinion. We don’t know what the Texans think, but at the least you and Simms are making me dig deeper on this guy, and if he’s as good as Simms thinks he is, nabbing him at 89 would be a Nico Collins level steal.
 
Porky said:
Gotta give you credit on Williams. I sort of accidentally came across PFT Live this morning, and Chris Simms laid out his top receivers. Travis Hunter first…. And #2 none other than your guy Kyle Williams. Simms loves him some Kyle Williams. He has McMillion next…then another of your guys Noel as #4. But he spent several minutes explaining what makes Williams special and why he thinks he will end up outperforming some of the bigger names in this draft. That’s one guy’s opinion. We don’t know what the Texans think, but at the least you and Simms are making me dig deeper on this guy, and if he’s as good as Simms thinks he is, nabbing him at 89 would be a Nico Collins level steal.
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I had seen him play in one game earlier this yr and thought he was a good player. Then he stood out at the Sr. Bowl and I'm on board. The other lower ranked WR's that I really like are TesLaa and Thornton.
 
Thornton I'm very meh on. He is a sub-package player, not a starter at least for a good while. Maybe he develops into a starter, who knows. The draft is a crap shoot. I think we need a starter at X now, not down the road so I'd be mildly disappointed if the only guy we got at WR was Thornton.

The only thing I know about Teslaa is the cyber truck bites hard. Oh wait...that's different! Teslaa is totally off my radar. I'll check him out when I have time.
 
JWLCASPER said:
IMO, I think Caley will go back to a faster paced passing attack with shots sprinkled in, as opposed to hunting for shots with every call and a check down sprinkled in for safety.
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Good post. I would look for a WR in the draft that can win early then produce YAC. Like a Puka Nacua. Nacua averages only 7 yards at the catch point, but over 6 yards after catch. A model WR for that type of offense.
 
Lucky said:
Good post. I would look for a WR in the draft that can win early then produce YAC. Like a Puka Nacua. Nacua averages only 7 yards at the catch point, but over 6 yards after catch. A model WR for that type of offense.
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It should be noted that early in Demeco's tenure, he made a point to talk about how he likes (and would assume, targets) "YAC guys", which is my word for them, not a direct quote from him.
 
House of Pain said:
It should be noted that early in Demeco's tenure, he made a point to talk about how he likes (and would assume, targets) "YAC guys", which is my word for them, not a direct quote from him.
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Lucky said:
That was in one of his initial pressers. Like you, I don't remember exactly the quote.
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Upon being hired as HC:

New Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans on returning to Houston: 'It was a no-brainer to be here'​

Published: Feb 02, 2023 at 07:44 PM
Bobby Kownack
NFL.com Around the NFL Digital Content Producer

Whether the starter next year is Mills once again, a veteran addition or a top pick in the upcoming draft, it's clear Ryans envisions a scenario similar to the trench-dominating, yards-after-catch hungry offense he worked alongside as San Francisco's DC.
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"We want to play with precision," Ryans said of his hope for Houston's offense. "We want to play with effort, we want to play with physicality. So, with that, we want to own the line of scrimmage. We want to establish the run game first, but we want to be balanced. We want to be able to operate with play-action pass, but we also want to be efficient. We want to have explosive playmakers who we can get the ball to. If it's not down the field, we want to be able to throw a check down and put it in the hands of an explosive playmaker and see him create."
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cland said:
While that's true, you're only looking at the first year of Harbaugh's plan (and counting on a rookie--who had a dominant year as rookies go--RT to show out in his first year.) Building a team from the inside out will pay off.
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I'm all for drafting an OL in the 1st rd, provided that one of Banks or if Simmons checks out medically at 1-25. Other than that I still want to improve the OL by picking one of the 3 best TE's in this class. Warren probably will be gone by 1-25. But if Loveland or Taylor (Who ran a 4.65 at his pro day) are there that would be my pick. My pick at 2-58 would be a WR, Kyle Williams is my guy. I just hope Caserio/Ryans/Caley dont force an OL pick. This isn't a good OL class IMHo, although it does have some good developmental prospects. William Grant and Jackson Slater are 2 of my favorites.
 
badboy said:
Kyle Williams is a better slot than outside in the NFL while Golden is very good everywhere. Golden has a higher floor but IMO, both have high ceilings in what I think our new system is going to be. The main difference is golden will be a round one and Williams will probably go fifth round. That pretty much even things up for me. This is one of the players that I would refer to in my trade down scenarios of getting third round and later pics.

Let me correct something that I might have implied by saying Williams is a better slot than an outside. He could be an extremely good X with the right coaching. I would not be surprised either if he went round 3.
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He played mainly X at Washington St. but some in the slot. He's got silky smooth releases. I would pick him at 2-58 because I dont think he will make it to 3-79. I expect him to go before 3-79.

You know me, I like to get the guys I like and will pick my guys higher than most draftniks rate them. Picking Taylor at 1-25 (Most draftniks have him rated as a 2nd rd guy) and Williams at 2-58 (Most draftniks have him going in the 3rd or later) would be the start of a great draft IMHO.
 
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Porky said:
Thornton I'm very meh on. He is a sub-package player, not a starter at least for a good while. Maybe he develops into a starter, who knows. The draft is a crap shoot. I think we need a starter at X now, not down the road so I'd be mildly disappointed if the only guy we got at WR was Thornton.

The only thing I know about Teslaa is the cyber truck bites hard. Oh wait...that's different! Teslaa is totally off my radar. I'll check him out when I have time.
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Agreed about Thornton, but at 6'5 running a 4.3 he's a developmental guy. But there's a lot there to develop.

Another developmental guy I like is Sammy Brown, WR Miami, a former Coog, 6'2 and runs a 4.4.
 
JWLCASPER said:
Without derailing too much - I like Tai Felton and Jalen Royals A LOT in this vein. I still take Simmons round 1 regardless of his injury history. And I know @CloakNNNdagger will puncture holes in this and I fully expect him to. But if healthy he’s by far the best offensive lineman prospect in this draft and Houston wouldn’t have a chance to draft a player of his caliber without a total collapse.

Reposting this for examination in conjunction with this post and my post above.

My Draft Picks

1.25 Josh Simmons
OT Ohio State

2.58 T.J. Sanders
DT South Carolina

3.79 Tai Felton( Or Jalen Royals)
WR Maryland (WR Utah State)

4.89 Emery Jones
OT LSU

5.166 Raheim Sanders
RB South Carolina

6.236 Jailin Walker
LB Indiana

7.241 Jordan Oladokun
CB Bowling Green
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I like Felton a lot.

I'm on the TE/OT draft early to help fix the OL and they just cleared up some money by restructuring Autry, I bet they spend that money on an OG. (Dalton Risner is my favorite) Cooper/Elijah Moore are still out there in FA, would you look bringing one of those guys in? I'm hoping Caserio adds 2 more WR's that can run to the WR corps. I'm tired of Nico being the only above avg WR in the playoffs every yr. Plan for injuries with guys that can stretch the field.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm all for drafting an OL in the 1st rd, provided that one of Banks or if Simmons checks out medically at 1-25. Other than that I still want to improve the OL by picking one of the 3 best TE's in this class. Warren probably will be gone by 1-25. But if Loveland or Taylor (Who ran a 4.65 at his pro day) are there that would be my pick. My pick at 2-58 would be a WR, Kyle Williams is my guy. I just hope Caserio/Ryans/Caley dont force an OL pick. This isn't a good OL class IMHo, although it does have some good developmental prospects. William Grant and Jackson Slater are 2 of my favorites.
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Agreed with your first point, but if they're not there I'd probably pick the best G. On the the TE pick, I guess I look at is as you've got your pass-catching TE (though he could certainly be upgraded), but I think a you can get a solid run-blocking TE a little later in the draft. Last year I mocked (run-blocking) Tip Reiman who went in the 3rd round, and he's had a great year with the Cardinals. TE Jackson Hawes is my equivalent pick this year and according to most draft boards is a safe pick in rd. 5.

Now if I felt better about the interior 5 OLineman, I'd no problem at all with going TE in the first round. But I can't get over the fact that I'm so tired of seeing the Texans Oline be the weakness of the team.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm worried Banks doesn't last to 1-25.
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I don't think he makes it out of the top 1-15.
Porky said:
I don’t think Taylor is special enough to trade up for. I would however, trade up for Booker. He’s got swarm written all over him. Don’t care much about the numbers he put up in shorts. In the second round…I’d be all over Booker.
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I wouldn't trade up for Taylor, but I would pick him at 1-25.
 
cland said:
Agreed with your first point, but if they're not there I'd probably pick the best G. On the the TE pick, I guess I look at is as you've got your pass-catching TE (though he could certainly be upgraded), but I think a you can get a solid run-blocking TE a little later in the draft. Last year I mocked (run-blocking) Tip Reiman who went in the 3rd round, and he's had a great year with the Cardinals. TE Jackson Hawes is my equivalent pick this year and according to most draft boards is a safe pick in rd. 5.

Now if I felt better about the interior 5 OLineman, I'd no problem at all with going TE in the first round. But I can't get over the fact that I'm so tired of seeing the Texans Oline be the weakness of the team.
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Difference is Reiman ran below 4.7 and has great hands at 270 lbs. I mocked him to the Texans last year. He hasn't shown his receiving chops yet because of McBride.


Hawes although a fine blocker in his own right isn't in the class of Reiman as a receiver. Loo how much the Cards run game improved last year with a good blocking TE to go with McBride.

This is why I value Loveland, Taylor more than most.
 
Porky said:
Williams looks like a pretty good prospect—probably more of a third —or fourth-rounder. I doubt he lasts to 5, but who knows?

The finer points separate players in the draft. Maybe Williams is the better pro, but Golden will likely be better as it stands now.

While it's true I haven't seen much of Williams, the general consensus is that Golden is much more polished as a route runner, a bit faster, and has better hands.

The general consensus is that Williams is a good WR#2 and Golden is a high-end WR#2 with a higher floor than Williams.

But because I've seen very little (if any) of Williams, I'll defer more to those who have watched enough of him to judge better, including you.
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steelbtexan said:
Golden is faster that's the biggest difference. Although Williams is plenty fast enough. Both players have high floors because of their Dell like ability to get clean releases off of the LOS.
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One thing I want to interject. From more than a couple sources, I have heard strong remarks regarding Williams inability to run good routes and falls down more than any receiver should. And even more disturbing is his unacceptable dropped pass frequency (12% last season and >10% thru his entire careet)..............something that would be predictable since he all too commonly catches passes with his body, not his hands. Why would you lose the advantage of height and long arms?

Surprisingly, he does do very well in contested balls. I see him more as a project...........in the hands of good coaching, he could see him in time having a good NFL career.

 
steelbtexan said:
He played mainly X at Washington St. but some in the slot. He's got silky smooth releases. I would pick him at 2-58 because I dont think he will make it to 3-79. I expect him to go before 3-79.

You know me, I like to get the guys I like and will pick my guys higher than most draftniks rate them. Picking Taylor at 1-25 (Most draftniks have him rated as a 2nd rd guy) and Williams at 2-58 (Most draftniks have him going in the 3rd or later) would be the start of a great draft IMHO.
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I agree but one of the sources I read said it may take him a while to get starts frequently outside. Should be more productive immediately from the slot ; with Christian on board might be hard to do.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
One thing I want to interject. From more than a couple sources, I have heard strong remarks regarding Williams inability to run good routes and falls down more than any receiver should. And even more disturbing is his unacceptable dropped pass frequency (12% last season and >10% thru his entire careet)..............something that would be predictable since he all too commonly catches passes with his body, not his hands. Why would you lose the advantage of height and long arms?

Surprisingly, he does do very well in contested balls. I see him more as a project...........in the hands of good coaching, he could see him in time having a good NFL career.
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Williams is an interesting prospect, especially if you think the Texans are looking for another Tank Dell type receiver. Williams is sudden and explosive like a Kadarius Toney. And has hands like Kardaruis Toney. Williams'hands are less than 9", so there might be a limit on how much improvement will be attainable. His main routes are slip screens and go routes. And, he's very effective with these. I don't think Williams ever becomes a volume receiver. But give him 3 or 4 chances a game, and he could break one.
 
badboy said:
I agree but one of the sources I read said it may take him a while to get starts frequently outside. Should be more productive immediately from the slot ; with Christian on board might be hard to do.
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If you see him like I do (A bigger version of Dell) then he can play anywhere. BTW, Kirk isn't a slot only guy. He can lineup outside some too.

Do you see Golden as being able to lineup at either the Y or the Z? If so you should see Williams in the same light.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
One thing I want to interject. From more than a couple sources, I have heard strong remarks regarding Williams inability to run good routes and falls down more than any receiver should. And even more disturbing is his unacceptable dropped pass frequency (12% last season and >10% thru his entire careet)..............something that would be predictable since he all too commonly catches passes with his body, not his hands. Why would you lose the advantage of height and long arms?

Surprisingly, he does do very well in contested balls. I see him more as a project...........in the hands of good coaching, he could see him in time having a good NFL career.
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Go back and look at his Sr. Bowl tape.

I didn't see a body catcher.
 
Lucky said:
Williams is an interesting prospect, especially if you think the Texans are looking for another Tank Dell type receiver. Williams is sudden and explosive like a Kadarius Toney. And has hands like Kardaruis Toney. Williams'hands are less than 9", so there might be a limit on how much improvement will be attainable. His main routes are slip screens and go routes. And, he's very effective with these. I don't think Williams ever becomes a volume receiver. But give him 3 or 4 chances a game, and he could break one.
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He ran many crossing patterns last yr. You dont catch as many balls as he did running screens/go's. He also showed versatility at the Sr. Bowl. (Ability to run a variety of routes) Anyways, I would be very happy with a good character Toney on this team. A difference maker that defenses have to account for.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you see him like I do (A bigger version of Dell) then he can play anywhere. BTW, Kirk isn't a slot only guy. He can lineup outside some too.

Do you see Golden as being able to lineup at either the Y or the Z? If so you should see Williams in the same light.
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No I do not see gold in lining up in the slot nor do I want him to. We have Christian for that. Golden on the outside opposite Nico with Christian in the slot should be devastating to our opponents. Mixon also should feast.
 
Lucky said:
Good post. I would look for a WR in the draft that can win early then produce YAC. Like a Puka Nacua. Nacua averages only 7 yards at the catch point, but over 6 yards after catch. A model WR for that type of offense.
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True but if you have a wide receiver that gets you 15 yd every time he catches the ball, YAC is just gravy for the fried chicken.
 
steelbtexan said:
Anyways, I would be very happy with a good character Toney on this team.
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Kyle Williams will play in the NFL next year. Little doubt about that. Where he goes, when he's drafted, what his role will be...I can't say for certain. I would rank him behind Burden and Noel in the slot/gadget category. Ahead of Tez Johnson and the Colorado guys, Horn and Wester.
 
Lucky said:
Williams is an interesting prospect, especially if you think the Texans are looking for another Tank Dell type receiver. Williams is sudden and explosive like a Kadarius Toney. And has hands like Kardaruis Toney. Williams'hands are less than 9", so there might be a limit on how much improvement will be attainable. His main routes are slip screens and go routes. And, he's very effective with these. I don't think Williams ever becomes a volume receiver. But give him 3 or 4 chances a game, and he could break one.
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Hand size is not his problem. I believe that at the Combine, his hand size measured a huge 10 1/4".
 
steelbtexan said:
I don't think he makes it out of the top 1-15.

I wouldn't trade up for Taylor, but I would pick him at 1-25.
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Way too high on Taylor imho. I see him as more of a 3rd rounder but as per usual…i may be wrong. If he goes late in the first you have earned your flowers.
 
Porky said:
Way too high on Taylor imho. I see him as more of a 3rd rounder but as per usual…i may be wrong. If he goes late in the first you have earned your flowers.
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He should, doubt he will. TE's usually don't go in the 1st. But if you want the fastest TE, with great hands and is a better blocker than Warren then pick Taylor. If that isn't your cup of tea then pass and hope.
 
badboy said:
No I do not see gold in lining up in the slot nor do I want him to. We have Christian for that. Golden on the outside opposite Nico with Christian in the slot should be devastating to our opponents. Mixon also should feast.
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Agreed, K. Williams played mostly X at Washington St. So I'm pretty sure he can play outside. I really cant tell the difference between the two. But I'm good with Golden in the 1st and Fidone in the 3rd. The need for a multi faceted TE is real.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, K. Williams played mostly X at Washington St. So I'm pretty sure he can play outside. I really cant tell the difference between the two. But I'm good with Golden in the 1st and Fidone in the 3rd. The need for a multi faceted TE is real.
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I cannot find Williams earlier than round 6. Would you be okay with Golden at 25 and Williams in round 6?
 
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