leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Didn't they just draft Stover last year? If you're drafting a te with your 1st pick, they need to get rid of the scouts
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Trade down vs trading up or selecting BPA
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
The Raiders drafted Mayer and the next year drafted Bowers. I am pretty sure they're happy with that pick.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So what does that say about the player you just spent a 3rd rd pick on. It's never BPA, it's bpa that fits a need. The board is vertical and horizontal.
A TE that can block and catch is one of the biggest needs on this team. A lack of this was one reason the offense sucked last yr and CJ spent a lot of time on his back. Stover may one day become a good player. If Caserio gets a chance to get a 10 yr starter at TE he shouldn't let the fact that he picked Stover in the 4th rd stop him from picking a TE in the 4th rd.
If somehow Warren fell to 1-26 Caserio should run the card up to God'ell himself. I feel the same way about Loveland/Taylor. These guys are difference makers IMHO, the team needs difference maker and at no point do I see Stover becoming a difference maker. Best they can hope for is Stover to become a good NFL player.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
CJ got sacked alot because the guards were terrible and any inside stunt or game resulted in a sack. Thing is, you think he can block until he can't. Did you watch Bowers last year? He wasn't a blocker, he was a wr. Have they ever mentioned a great blocking te aside from Gronk and Kittle? It your oline know what they're doing, your te blocking is at the bottom of the list. If Owen Daniels can block , Stover should be able to do the same. That's coaching again.
I seem to remember both Stover and Schultz sucking at pass protection. Stover was better blocking in the run game. I consider the TE position to be part of the OL and that position need an upgrade as badly as the OG position. This is why I'm on board with picking Jackson rd 1 and Taylor Rd 2. Then going out and signing Becton/Noteboom/Daniels etc... Fix the OL.
badboy
Hall of Fame
And yet we got both Stover and Schultz!
TexansFan15
All Pro
I think Stover will improve. He’s still learning the position.
TexansFan15
All Pro
I don’t think he’ll ever be a TE1, but he could become a solid 2. Health leads to reps. With Caley as the OC and being a TE coach, Stover could really improve in every aspect.
Last edited:
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
We had a dialogue about the combine workouts. You can look back through the thread. I was talking about how it was crazy to downgrade Kyle Hamilton and Aiden Hutchinson based on 40 tine. You responded to a post I made trying to explain why their combine 40s mattered.
I can see this, a TE room with one of Loveland, Warren, Taylor in it to go with an improving Stover would put the Texans TE room on par with the best TE rooms in the NFL.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Always enjoy exchanging draft parameters. Don’t know why you’re including Hutchinson, he was easily best prospect available, good on Detroit, kinda like Carolina passing on Stroud so we could draft him.
Always felt association with Lion franchise from expansion draft days. Remember them passing on Andre Johnson for Charles Rogers
cland
Rookie
Whelp, at this point and time I have to go with trading up (which is generally against my natural draft philosophy.) I hope the Texans have their eye on a new LT, and will trade up to get him so long as the price is reasonable.
Edit: The more I've researched tackles in this class, the more I think that Blake Fisher is going to be the answer at LT. For the simple reason that he has the "proper" arm length to line up at LT. Looking at the top 5 in this years class, none of the players have the 34" arm length that is preferred at LT. Now I know this akin to preferring 40-times over field play, but I do think there's something to be said for arm length and span. I remember Kubiak lining up Eric Winston at RT and Charles Spencer at LT due to that specific issue, and he's the only coach to have put together a dominant Oline.
Edit: The more I've researched tackles in this class, the more I think that Blake Fisher is going to be the answer at LT. For the simple reason that he has the "proper" arm length to line up at LT. Looking at the top 5 in this years class, none of the players have the 34" arm length that is preferred at LT. Now I know this akin to preferring 40-times over field play, but I do think there's something to be said for arm length and span. I remember Kubiak lining up Eric Winston at RT and Charles Spencer at LT due to that specific issue, and he's the only coach to have put together a dominant Oline.
Last edited:
Banks has 33 1/2 inch arms. What's a 1/2 inch amongst close friends? LOL
Banks has the feet to play LT for a long time in the NFL.
A long time top 10 LT is worth 1-25 and a 2026 1st IMHO.
Keeping your franchise QB upright and off the concussion protocol is worth 2 1sts. So I agree.
cland
Rookie
Hehe, well Fisher has arms that are 34 3/8. So Banks is 7/8 of an inch worse!!!!
Re-reading Fishers profile it looks like he has all the physicals, and just had some techniques to brush up on. But really I'll take them both and let competition decide.
Fisher's feet dont move like Banks feet move.Hehe, well Fisher has arms that are 34 3/8. So Banks is 7/8 of an inch worse!!!!
Re-reading Fishers profile it looks like he has all the physicals, and just had some techniques to brush up on. But really I'll take them both and let competition decide.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Banks going top 10 ish
TexansFan15
All Pro
But isn’t his wingspan pretty good? I’d have to check out the numbers, but I think he’s a LT despite the shorter arms.
I would give up a 2026 1st to move up to the Bears pick and take Banks.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I wouldn't, but that's just me. Especially not a future 1st. We need to be out of that business.
Steel's often correct on his talent assessments, but I'm with you on this one .... this year. There are so many things going against us ..... and the rest of the teams for that matter. I hate it that so many don't test anymore. Used to be, if you had all the numbers, you could be pretty certain what level of athleticism a kid had or didn't have. Tape will show you most of the rest .... but so much of that depends on who he was matched up against that day, and even how well they were coached up for that game .... and how each of them felt, etc. Too much grey area .... especially considering the kind of money being thrown around !
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I’m moving my chips over to LT- Hollin Pierce (Rutgers / 6-7 @ 341 lbs and 36” Arms). This guy is just naturally strong and handles run blocking duties with a nasty demeanor.
Anyone else interested in checking this guy out should Google his highlights. This guy just flat out carries 341 pounds as good as anyone I’ve ever seen. Get him into the 320’ish play weight and I think this guy has dominant NFL LT written all over him.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
cland
Rookie
I checked him out, but really think he's more of a RT in the NFL due to foot speed/lateral agility. If he develops he could be a beast in a gap/power scheme though. I would look at him in the 3rd/4th to give him a shot.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Regardless of arm length, Campbell is still top 10. His feet are too good and he's also a good foot athlete
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Can he handle a power to speed rush
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
With a little more coaching, I believe this man could stonewall a power or speed rush while imposing his will on the defender. His film looks much better than the written assessments. Every LT in this draft is ranked accordingly (opinion) but come with some kind of flaw in their game. Take the time and read up on the top 20 LT's and then look at their highlights. If everyone in the top 20 has a flaw....then I'll go with the standout physical attributes and solid mental elements of a player knowing my coaches should be able to get the best out of that player. I'd also like to get him into the 320'ish pound range to improve his ability to pick up the pace.
Not only yes - but Hell Yes .... good find Opto ! No workout yet ? Great School, Good Communicator, Happy/Positive - A Big Ol' Goodun .... He needs to be our right tackle .... don't even need all the drills .... just need to watch him move a little. Ask CJ what all he knows about Josh Simmons. Them two Big Ol' Boys remind me a lot of each other .... talk about positive leaders in your foundation .... Hell Yeah ! I stayed up till after 3 .... looking for something positive .... always darkest before the light .... " The very next day, the clouds went away, the sky again turned blue" ! Okay .... a substantial glimmer of Hope .... Really .... Good catch Opto !
cland
Rookie
My only issue at LT is that he seems to be a "loper" as opposed to a guy that can match a (good) DEs moves with his feet. I've started evaluating LTs with Will Anderson speed-to-power move in mind, where he arcs the tackle around the edge then powers back across the tackles body once he gets their momentum going to the outside (I'm sure there's 100 ways to put that better.)
I agree that he's a beast once he gets his hands in the right place, but getting to that point against elite speed in power could be an issue.
Body types dictate a lot of the problems found in particular movement skills. A 20 lb loss will negate a lot of that .... and one or two targeted drills everyday will also help !
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
That’s the key….you can’t make a LT that big and with that much natural strength. What you can do with a beast this size, improve his already very good physique and coach him up.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Isn't he just Patrick Paul 20205 version? Paul started 3 games last year and Miami is still looking for help at OIT
cland
Rookie
I disagree with this somewhat. Quick feet is an innate athletic skill. You can take a guy with a 20-inch vert and train and train him and you might get it to 22. But he will never be a 40-inch vert guy. (Trust me I know, 6'6" and I could just barely dunk a basketball and it wasn't pretty.)
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You lacked core strength. You can always become a better athlete
cland
Rookie
LOL, who knew you were so well informed with my personal training regimen and muscle distribution???
Or perhaps...
Genetics:
Some individuals are simply predisposed to having a higher vertical jump due to inherited factors influencing muscle fiber types, bone structure, and overall body composition.
Muscle Fiber Composition:
The ratio of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscle fibers plays a crucial role. Athletes with a higher proportion of fast-twitch fibers, which are responsible for explosive movements, tend to have better vertical jump performance.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Anderson type rushers are why we need tackles who can mirror as well as just block and push out or back.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Verticals and 40 yard time as well as broad jumps do not do anything for me with offensive lineman.
badboy
Hall of Fame
You should see my back pedal, feet quickness and fast twitch fibers after I eat Mexican food!
cland
Rookie
Those were just examples of how athletic ability can be an innate talent, relating to the foot speed comment. As opposed to my personal core strength.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Disagree. Those are explosive which equals power and torque. Does that directly equal all pro or pro bowl? No, but as a guard or tackle, you have deliver power through your core vs another human who is more quicker, faster, and probably more explosive. There are exceptions, but at some point having a bunch of exceptions will create a mismatch. Look at the high end tackles playing or through history and most were field players like discuss or shot put. Coaches prefer those guys to also play basketball for lateral movement.
I watched Eric Winston give Chris Bosh the business in the state playoff game. He went to Miami as a te and turned into a quality rt for many years even though he didn't have long arms, but he had feet. If you don't have feet and overall athleticism, it's difficult to play oline. That stuff matters.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I understand but explosiveness can be better realized by athlete pushing against a weight measuring device.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
[/QUOTE]
Somewhat, but a broad jump and vertical is a display of core strength. Again, that doesn't tie in explosion with balance, but it does matter. Kenyon Green didn't test well on explosion. Evan Neal did test well, but neither look like they're any good. If you look at the at those oline 1st rd picks from Bama under Saban , they have been very,very avg at best. Alot of them tested well, but didn't play well. Very few made it past their rookie deal. That's why I'm leery of Booker. I know we're supposed judge the player and not the helmet, but how many 1st rd bust can come from that program.
Somewhat, but a broad jump and vertical is a display of core strength. Again, that doesn't tie in explosion with balance, but it does matter. Kenyon Green didn't test well on explosion. Evan Neal did test well, but neither look like they're any good. If you look at the at those oline 1st rd picks from Bama under Saban , they have been very,very avg at best. Alot of them tested well, but didn't play well. Very few made it past their rookie deal. That's why I'm leery of Booker. I know we're supposed judge the player and not the helmet, but how many 1st rd bust can come from that program.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Somewhat, but a broad jump and vertical is a display of core strength. Again, that doesn't tie in explosion with balance, but it does matter. Kenyon Green didn't test well on explosion. Evan Neal did test well, but neither look like they're any good. If you look at the at those oline 1st rd picks from Bama under Saban , they have been very,very avg at best. Alot of them tested well, but didn't play well. Very few made it past their rookie deal. That's why I'm leery of Booker. I know we're supposed judge the player and not the helmet, but how many 1st rd bust can come from that program.
[/QUOTE]
We certainly agree on Booker.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Still believe Caserio trades down again, possibly out of first to address both interior meat for OL as well skill positions at WR/TE/RB. Example below actually unintentionally traded down more than planned, missed out on two prospects and this is tough part. Had to know KC was after OL, my target, Donovan Jackson was their target. Picked their 2nd. Took TreyVon Henderson plus 3rd rounder Jared Wilson Center, Georgia. Other trade down could have had was Devin Neal. Instead came away with Deone Walker, DT and RB Bhayshul Tuten (PFF gave me F for taking Tuten). Anyway, I don’t pay attention to grades, PFF is sleeping on him for some reason?
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
As we get under 30 days till the first round, I'm starting to wonder if it's possible that the cost to trade up this year might be less than usual?
Just seems to be uncertainty for every pick after 3, maybe 4; and that might drive the cost down
Just seems to be uncertainty for every pick after 3, maybe 4; and that might drive the cost down
badboy
Hall of Fame
I want Nick to get Matthew Golden, Jahdee Barron and Kelvin Banks! One at 25 then use whatever needed left from 2025 and from 2026 for other two. A team at the end of Round 1 may see the benefit of more pics in 2026. The high from 2023 trade up for Anderson is already starting to wear off. I need another fix!
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
My opinion is you put 1 or 2 players on your board in position of need ONLY. To me, that's WR and OG/T. Debatable what they feel our current plays, FAs too will play. If you are not 150% set on who is at 25 of the 4 you have picked...trade down. You can also go BPA if a player you feel is amazing but not a key need drops. DT and RB 2/Mixon replacement is my version of this.
In a trade down it again goes to 2 or 3 plays but now at each position WR, OL, DT and RB. TE is a 3rd round pick I feel. We have some good young players already IMO. And with extra picks already (2 3rds) you can likely snag all 4 top needs in the top 100 picks. Then go BPA the rest of the way.
In a trade down it again goes to 2 or 3 plays but now at each position WR, OL, DT and RB. TE is a 3rd round pick I feel. We have some good young players already IMO. And with extra picks already (2 3rds) you can likely snag all 4 top needs in the top 100 picks. Then go BPA the rest of the way.
If Banks doesn't fall to 1-25 then trading down 5-7 spots and picking Mason Taylor and picking up an extra 3rd would be optimal IMHO.