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Who do you want as the new OC?

Lucky said:
I come down on the side of @AcresHomesTexan 's point. I want the basics taken care of. Getting the protections right. Ensuring there's a hot read on blitzes. Checking into the right play when the defense shows a different look. Get this done and worry about the avant garde schemes later. That's why I prefer an OC that has the experience to get the little things down. Because the little things can become big things if not corrected.
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This is why I prefer experience as well. And I'm not talking just a few years of successful playcalling. I want someone who has really got it out of the mud.
Someone who has at least been an offensive position coach...Maybe even coached multiple offensive positions...And then having a successful playcalling resume on top of that other experience...
 
Experience doesn’t mean a whole lot these days.

Experience got us Pep Hamilton.
Experience got us Lovie Smith
Experience got us Rick Dennison
Experience got us Mike Sherman

To be fair it also got us Gary Kubiak and Wade Phillips but Gary was an 1st time HC & experience being the main criteria for purported success isn’t as safe a bet as you might think. I think it’s far more important that you get the GROUP of coaches on the side of the ball correct, moreso than any 1 guy. Who knows what Slowik could’ve done as OC if he didn’t have Strausser weighing him down as the OL coach.

With Gary Kubiak on as a mentor and Alex Gibbs on as the OL coach, Kyle Shanahan seemed to be just fine as our OC for the 1 year he was here & went on to duplicate his success here in 3 other stops. Sometimes you just gotta role with new guy and surround him with good assistants/mentors
 
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Errant Hothy said:
This, a thousand times this.

Really got the feeling the Slowick had no ability to self-scout or adapt on the fly, once a D had him figured out he was cooked.
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I think Slowik is just too analytical. He's probably really smart on the whiteboard (they're remarkable!!) but gets paralysis by analysis during a game. The poorly coached OL not being able to defend the simplest stunts probably made that paralysis even worse.
IMO, fix the OL and the offense will start to match the defense's production. I'm just not sure that most of the guys on the roster are the answer to fixing the OL & OL has proven to be a weakness of Caserio's.
 
DocBar said:
I think Slowik is just too analytical. He's probably really smart on the whiteboard (they're remarkable!!) but gets paralysis by analysis during a game. The poorly coached OL not being able to defend the simplest stunts probably made that paralysis even worse.
IMO, fix the OL and the offense will start to match the defense's production. I'm just not sure that most of the guys on the roster are the answer to fixing the OL & OL has proven to be a weakness of Caserio's.
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GM’s rely on their scouts and position coaches when they rank guys to be drafted. It’s entirely possible that NC relied a little heavily on Strausser’s opinion of guys he would like and that has led to the poor drafting…tho me personally, I wouldn’t call it poor as Kenyon Green seems to be the only guy that’s probably not gonna work out. Scruggs probably isn’t a starter, but will probably still be good depth on the interior.
 
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Lucky said:
I come down on the side of @AcresHomesTexan 's point. I want the basics taken care of. Getting the protections right. Ensuring there's a hot read on blitzes. Checking into the right play when the defense shows a different look. Get this done and worry about the avant garde schemes later. That's why I prefer an OC that has the experience to get the little things down. Because the little things can become big things if not corrected.
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Seth Payne mentioned something about the new young OCs being “Madden warriors” at times. You can craft an intricate passing scheme but if you can’t run against cover 2 then it doesn’t matter.
 
Sweech said:
I like McCown but feel like it's just hitting the reset button. Much like promoting Jerrod Johnson.

Ideally I want an experienced OC who can come in and essentially become the head coach of the offense. Not someone who has to come in and learn how to call plays and everything else that goes into being the coordinator.

It's why even if we bring in someone who would be new to being an OC I'd want them to have an extensive coaching background.

Even if McCown hit the ground running there would be plenty of growing pains here and there. I'm not sure with our window we really want to be going through that.
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Unfortunately, all of the very good, experienced OCs are already working with other teams. This is why the Texans are looking at the offensive-minded people they are looking at.
 
Mr teX said:
Experience doesn’t mean a whole lot these days.

Experience got us Pep Hamilton.
Experience got us Lovie Smith
Experience got us Rick Dennison
Experience got us Mike Sherman

To be fair it also got us Gary Kubiak and Wade Phillips but Gary was an 1st time HC & experience being the main criteria for purported success isn’t as safe a bet as you might think. I think it’s far more important that you get the GROUP of coaches on the side of the ball correct, moreso than any 1 guy. Who knows what Slowik could’ve done as OC if he didn’t have Strausser weighing him down as the OL coach.

With Gary Kubiak on as a mentor and Alex Gibbs on as the OL coach, Kyle Shanahan seemed to be just fine as our OC for the 1 year he was here & went on to duplicate his success here in 3 other stops. Sometimes you just gotta role with new guy and surround him with good assistants/mentors
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You are missing the key point. Baby Shanny had a successful offensive HC. That’s not the case here.

We need someone with no training wheels. He’s got to take the reins day one and be the man with the plan.
 
welsh texan said:
I disagree, think we ran into issues letting a rookie contract QB amass perceived power last go around. Should have taught him to stay in his lane on and off the field. Do your job and get better at it.

QB will be on board with quality coaching that wins championships. If not (as with DW) then not the right person to lead a franchise (as DW has proven).
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Sure. Who is the "quality" coach you have in mind? I wonder if Texans can find this guy?
 
Porky said:
You are missing the key point. Baby Shanny had a successful offensive HC. That’s not the case here.

We need someone with no training wheels. He’s got to take the reins day one and be the man with the plan.
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No I’m not missing the point. I acknowledged Kubiak as a good mentor for him & Gibbs as a good assistant coach of the o-line. But Gary Kubiak being there didn’t help Troy Calhoun who had extensive experience as assistant in Denver and all Mike Sherman’s experience as a HC and former OC didn’t help him either. Both sucked.

My point is “no training wheels” doesn’t equivocate to success. Some guys just have it and some don’t. But the only way you find that out is by hiring them.
 
I think all these guys are smart when it comes to football. This included Slo. However, it is pretty clear we have a major culture issue. This is not just the o-line. I truly believe the receivers other than NC ran some sloppy routes. The culture clearly was not there. I am sure it was mentioned each week to the team. but they just did not get motivated enough to fix it. Whoever we hire needs to also be a stud motivator. Whatever the style that entails.
 
Mr teX said:
No I’m not missing the point. I acknowledged Kubiak as a good mentor for him & Gibbs as a good assistant coach of the o-line. But Gary Kubiak being there didn’t help Troy Calhoun who had extensive experience as assistant in Denver and all Mike Sherman’s experience as a HC and former OC didn’t help him either. Both sucked.

My point is “no training wheels” doesn’t equivocate to success. Some guys just have it and some don’t. But the only way you find that out is by hiring them.
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Shannahan was here for two years, not one. His first year here Shannahan (and every other offensive coordinator under Gary) was basically what Matt Burke is for Demeco. This was Kubiak's offense and he called plays. Troy Calhoun and Sherman were not the primary play callers at any point. They may have called some series here and there, but Kubiak called the plays and built the offense.

Kyle's first year here was 2008 and Kubiak was the play caller all year until the last game of the season. Kubiak handed over playcalling to him in 2009.

Also, Shanny isn't the typical "inexperienced" first time playcaller. His dad was a legendary coach and he was basically been around the offensive system since birth. He was brought along slowly and had one of the best playcallers in that system (Kubiak) showing him the ropes and Legendary OL coach in that system in Gibbs. It was also a system that the team had been running for multiple years prior so the players themselves already had familiarity and there wasn't a huge learning curve.

I would have been good with Klint Kubiak with Gary as a consultant and bring in a bunch of experienced guys to support him.

IMO, Kyle Shannahan being given the playcalling duties in 2009 would not be the same as say, giving Jerrod Johnson the reigns and having him in charge of every aspect of the offense for the 2025 Texans.

Not to say that Jerrod couldn't be successful. He absolutely could be. Hell, they could bring in some hot shot high school coach that could be successful. But just my preference, especially since Demeco is a defensive minded guy and and the OC will be expected to put this whole thing together, is to have someone with an established track record.


And talking about Gary's time here, it was kind of the inverse of what we have now. Kubes was an offensive guy who ran the offense. Demeco is a defensive guy and this is his defense. Kubiak let the defensive coordinators do their thing...And they were trash (Richard Smith, Frank Bush)...Once the Texans brought in highly experienced Wade Smith and let him do his thing the Texans had their best season to that point.
 
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Mr teX said:
GM’s rely on their scouts and position coaches when they rank guys to be drafted. It’s entirely possible that NC relied a little heavily on Strausser’s opinion of guys he would like and that has led to the poor drafting…tho me personally, I wouldn’t call it poor as Kenyon Green seems to be the only guy that’s probably not gonna work out. Scruggs probably isn’t a starter, but will probably still be good depth on the interior.
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Other than Kenyon green, I think the draft picks were not as much a problem as coaching them up. That's why I'm still hopeful for Patterson, Scruggs and Fisher.
 
Texansballer74 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1885509019277603154
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Here's some more background info:

I'll copy/paste from the other thread.

This guy was actually on the Texans for a short time as a player. Would have crossed over when Demeco was here.

They also coached together with the 49ers in 2017 and 2018.

He's a former Tackle and has been coaching for nearly a decade. Mostly as an OL coached with the 49ers and later Packers starting in 2019. He's gotten a ton of praise for strong OL performances while with the Packers.

He was the Packers run game coordinator in 2021 and has been the OC since 2022.

Obviously, it must be noted that Lafluer, much like McVay, is the play caller and ultimately the one running the offense so just like the Rams candidates this guy would be someone without real playcalling experience.

Now the Packers run their own flavor of the Shanahan scheme but were one of the top rushing teams in the NFL. Jordan Love was sacked just 14 times in 15 regular season games played. This guys track record with OL performances seems particularly strong and I assume he's willing to take a side promotion to get a chance to prove himself as a playcaller.

One other fun fact. The Packers have been bottom half and often bottom 5 in sacks allowed since 2019 when Stenavich was hired. Most sacks the Packers have allowed in a season under him was 36. Texans have given up 44+ in all by one year in that same stretch (just 38 in 2022).

At worst our OL should see a big improvement under him.
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He was an OL here around 09 so he may have had some coaching from Alex Gibbs.

I think this might be who I'm leaning towards...I think he's a good blend of experience/inexperience...and I LOVE that he was an OLineman in the Kubiak system.
 
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xtruroyaltyx said:
Shannahan was here for two years, not one. His first year here Shannahan (and every other offensive coordinator under Gary) was basically what Matt Burke is for Demeco. This was Kubiak's offense and he called plays. Troy Calhoun and Sherman were not the primary play callers at any point. They may have called some series here and there, but Kubiak called the plays and built the offense.

Kyle's first year here was 2008 and Kubiak was the play caller all year until the last game of the season. Kubiak handed over playcalling to him in 2009.

Also, Shanny isn't the typical "inexperienced" first time playcaller. His dad was a legendary coach and he was basically been around the offensive system since birth. He was brought along slowly and had one of the best playcallers in that system (Kubiak) showing him the ropes and Legendary OL coach in that system in Gibbs. It was also a system that the team had been running for multiple years prior so the players themselves already had familiarity and there wasn't a huge learning curve.

I would have been good with Klint Kubiak with Gary as a consultant and bring in a bunch of experienced guys to support him.

IMO, Kyle Shannahan being given the playcalling duties in 2009 would not be the same as say, giving Jerrod Johnson the reigns and having him in charge of every aspect of the offense for the 2025 Texans.

Not to say that Jerrod couldn't be successful. He absolutely could be. Hell, they could bring in some hot shot high school coach that could be successful. But just my preference, especially since Demeco is a defensive minded guy and and the OC will be expected to put this whole thing together, is to have someone with an established track record.


And talking about Gary's time here, it was kind of the inverse of what we have now. Kubes was an offensive guy who ran the offense. Demeco is a defensive guy and this is his defense. Kubiak let the defensive coordinators do their thing...And they were trash (Richard Smith, Frank Bush)...Once the Texans brought in highly experienced Wade Smith and let him do his thing the Texans had their best season to that point.
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Point is these guys were at each end of the spectrum in terms of experience. And the guy with the least amount of experience succeeded and continues to flourish and the other floundered and continued to do so. Rick Dennison a guy who had experience as a play caller came here and presided over our best season to date..he had plenty of play caller experience, but it wasn’t like it was great. He got here and got with guys that he really worked well with from his previous job in Denver…which brings me back to my original point. It’s more about the group of coaches and how well they work together than any 1 guy.

I just think the experience thing is way overrated. Experience sometimes can also bring habits..good and bad.

We will see. I think what hurt Slowik was that he was not only new to calling plays, he was also just relatively new to the offensive side of the ball period when u compare his years of coaching experience to other candidates and current OC’s around the league. He also had never been a position coach at any point…The learning curve was just too steep for him.
 
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badboy said:
Other than Kenyon green, I think the draft picks were not as much a problem as coaching them up. That's why I'm still hopeful for Patterson, Scruggs and Fisher.
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You only named three. They got holes to fill at LG, C, RG, and RT.

Somebody wondered why OCs’ aren’t jumping at the chance to be here. Maybe…just maybe…they’re taking a look at who, or what they have to work with …. and saying “hmm..naaah..I’ll pass. I ain't interested in being a fall guy.”
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Here's some more background info:



He was an OL here around 09 so he may have had some coaching from Alex Gibbs.

I think this might be who I'm leaning towards...I think he's a good blend of experience/inexperience...and I LOVE that he was an OLineman in the Kubiak system.
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Stenavich is now my leader of the candidates. He’s familiar with the job duties of OC (Only Nixon and Johnson have that experience). And he’s an OL specialist. Want to run the ball when teams set up in cover 2 and dare you? Get an OL guy.

I think they could also poach Udinski by giving him an assistant HC title or similar along with making him a full position coach rather than assistant.

Then you’ve got a potential wunderkind as well.

Keep Johnson by adding passing game coordinator to his title.

Stenavich finds an OL coach via his rolodex everyone else lacks.
 
Stenavich gets the most out of his OL.


“Since joining Green Bay's staff in 2019, Stenavich has helped the Packers rank No. 1 in the NFL over that span in giveaways (77), No. 2 in time of possession (31:32), No. 3 in sacks allowed (152) and No. 7 in scoring (25.2 ppg). The 152 sacks allowed by Green Bay since 2019 are its fewest over a five-season span since 2004-08 (118).”

“Despite being without five-time All-Pro T David Bakhtiari (knee) for all but one game in 2021, Stenavich's line helped Green Bay rank in the top 10 in the league in passing offense (No. 8, 253.8 ypg), total offense (No. 10, 365.6 ypg), scoring (No. 10, 26,5 ppg), giveaways (t-No. 1, 13) and time of possession (No. 1, 32:43). The Packers allowed one or fewer sacks in seven games on the season, tied for No. 8 in the NFL, despite using seven different starting combinations on the line due to injuries. The line protected QB Aaron Rodgers as he threw 38 TD passes with just four INTs for a league-leading 111.9 passer rating on his way to being named the NFL's Most Valuable Player by The Associated Press for the second straight season.”
 
Marcus said:
You only named three. They got holes to fill at LG, C, RG, and RT.

Somebody wondered why OCs’ aren’t jumping at the chance to be here. Maybe…just maybe…they’re taking a look at who, or what they have to work with …. and saying “hmm..naaah..I’ll pass. I ain't interested in being a fall guy.”
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Exactly
 
mmarkey_axiom said:
I think all these guys are smart when it comes to football. This included Slo. However, it is pretty clear we have a major culture issue. This is not just the o-line. I truly believe the receivers other than NC ran some sloppy routes. The culture clearly was not there. I am sure it was mentioned each week to the team. but they just did not get motivated enough to fix it. Whoever we hire needs to also be a stud motivator. Whatever the style that entails.
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We do have that issue.
 
Mr teX said:
No I’m not missing the point. I acknowledged Kubiak as a good mentor for him & Gibbs as a good assistant coach of the o-line. But Gary Kubiak being there didn’t help Troy Calhoun who had extensive experience as assistant in Denver and all Mike Sherman’s experience as a HC and former OC didn’t help him either. Both sucked.

My point is “no training wheels” doesn’t equivocate to success. Some guys just have it and some don’t. But the only way you find that out is by hiring them.
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Troy Calhoun wasn't here long enough to know if he sucked or not.
 
mmarkey_axiom said:
I think all these guys are smart when it comes to football. This included Slo. However, it is pretty clear we have a major culture issue. This is not just the o-line. I truly believe the receivers other than NC ran some sloppy routes. The culture clearly was not there. I am sure it was mentioned each week to the team. but they just did not get motivated enough to fix it. Whoever we hire needs to also be a stud motivator. Whatever the style that entails.
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This is why the entire staff should've been fired on the offense side of the ball.
 
Marcus said:
You only named three. They got holes to fill at LG, C, RG, and RT.

Somebody wondered why OCs’ aren’t jumping at the chance to be here. Maybe…just maybe…they’re taking a look at who, or what they have to work with …. and saying “hmm..naaah..I’ll pass. I ain't interested in being a fall guy.”
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Patterson, Scruggs and Fisher will go into OTAs as starters barring FA signing. I understand your thought but that can be fixed. OC also oversees Stroud; Tunsil a very good LT; Nico Collins and Joe Mixon.

Most offensive coordinators I think would look at that plus the draft and up to 50 million in cap space and say yeah. I think the biggest problem is not having the best candidates available.

On a side note, my guy for our offensive line coach Frye just signed with Arizona Cardinals
 
Jonathon Alexander had a great article today. Well sourced. Quick recap -

The big debate in the building is between continuing with the west coast Shanny system, or moving to a spread offense with some RPO or option style of offense.

They don’t expect CJ to suddenly become Jalen Hurts, but they liked what they saw toward the end of the year and want to use his wheels more. They want to figure out which style is best for the run game and CJ, and CJ will be included so in essence CJ gets his choice.

The former is represented by Calen, this guy from GB, J Johnson, etc.

Spread is represented by Kelly, Nixon, Brian Johnson, and Bill Lazor. This is why Lazor is a serious candidate.
 
Porky said:
Jonathon Alexander had a great article today. Well sourced. Quick recap -

The big debate in the building is between continuing with the west coast Shanny system, or moving to a spread offense with some RPO or option style of offense.

They don’t expect CJ to suddenly become Jalen Hurts, but they liked what they saw toward the end of the year and want to use his wheels more. They want to figure out which style is best for the run game and CJ, and CJ will be included so in essence CJ gets his choice.

The former is represented by Calen, this guy from GB, J Johnson, etc.

Spread is represented by Kelly, Nixon, Brian Johnson, and Bill Lazor. This is why Lazor is a serious candidate.
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I would be interested if Alexander thought that Kelly was still in the picture. Any other thoughts from anyone as to why Kelly was in the airport in Houston?
 
Porky said:
Jonathon Alexander had a great article today. Well sourced. Quick recap -

The big debate in the building is between continuing with the west coast Shanny system, or moving to a spread offense with some RPO or option style of offense.

They don’t expect CJ to suddenly become Jalen Hurts, but they liked what they saw toward the end of the year and want to use his wheels more. They want to figure out which style is best for the run game and CJ, and CJ will be included so in essence CJ gets his choice.

The former is represented by Calen, this guy from GB, J Johnson, etc.

Spread is represented by Kelly, Nixon, Brian Johnson, and Bill Lazor. This is why Lazor is a serious candidate.
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I just don't know about this. I think of Stroud as a pocket passer. When it comes to mobility, he surprised me with that big run against the Chargers. However, of the young QBs that are in the NFL, he might be the least athletically gifted QB. What's the point of going to an RPO offense if the QB doesn't consistently pose a threat with his legs?

I'm not sure why they don't just keep the Shanny system but add the elements that the Rams (McVay) and Packers (Matt LaFleur) are adding to the base scheme. As I am writing this last sentence, based on his work with Packers OL and working with LaFleur. If Chip Kelly is unavailable, Stenavich might be the candidate.
 
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