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Game day: Week 17- Texans vs Ravens
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ehh, CJ gets away with it enough..even this year…The KC game he had a completion for a 1st while in the grasps of the defender and being taken to the ground. TD pass to Schultz in the same game he bought enough time by scrambling so that Schultz could eventually clear. Even on the tank Dell TD injury play, CJ couldn’t even complete his play action boot and set up comfortably to survey the field before having to side step and release it b/c the pressure got up on him so quickly. a split second too late on that release, that TD play is probably a sack. What it is is the personnel & shitty playcalling are just asking him to do it a little too much & too often; like 2-3 times every drive basically b/c they’re CONSTANTLY in 3rd and longs.
Make something happen so that we can extend this drive/stay in this game. Sure You have to make a few of those hero throws/plays every game but you can’t live there down in down out like we do.
And as good as he is, the guy he just played is a good example of why that play isn’t sustainable b/c That is why LJ8 hasn’t had the same success in the playoffs that he’s had in the regular season. Defenses could just focus on him & his 1 other weapon (Andrews).
Same thing with CJ right now.
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Hervoyel
BUENO!
Well, then maybe he just doesn't know crap about offensive linemen? I can't think of one of those that was picked on his watch that worked out very well.
Deadpool
Veteran
Just like you could say the reason Stroud is having issues is because of him going through a ton of injuries at WR, or dealing with an excuse of an OL during his key developmental years, and both would be correct?
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Not exactly sure what you're getting at. I'm not a body language expert, but basic human experience tells me he's frustrated. With himself, his teammates, his coaches, who knows. Anyone in his position at this point would be frustrated. I'm not sure I have a problem with his body language.
And since I'm not in the locker room, in the meeting rooms, around the players, I have no idea what the attitude in the team is like. So, I'm not going to guess what his body language actually means, because IMO it can be a lot of different things that we have no way of knowing.
DanielTx
Chosen one
This body language
Seems normal to me
I agree with you
I don’t like seeing my franchise qb down
Of course I want him to be tough
and keep his head up
but seeing Cj down shows me
he has passion for the game and celebrates when he makes good plays as well.
Stroud doesn’t have the pedigree or resume’ as Brady. It’s his second year. He’s not a 10 or 15 year vet. Stroud can’t even audible yet. Nor is he paid yet. It’s a terrible look to be pouting ALL year long and not correcting his mistakes.
From the opening drive until LJ was mercifully taken out of the game by his HC we were decimated by the Ravens yesterday in our stadium and yet just a few days ago our Texans
went toe-to-toe with the Champs in their house until Tank's injury which was such an extrordinary event and is very difficult to fully evaluate on the total effect on our team.
Two different games with two different efforts just days apart.
Yesterday was yesterday, and now we move on towards the P/Os with a likely opponent
of the Steelers in NRG.
I say "Go Texans" !
went toe-to-toe with the Champs in their house until Tank's injury which was such an extrordinary event and is very difficult to fully evaluate on the total effect on our team.
Two different games with two different efforts just days apart.
Yesterday was yesterday, and now we move on towards the P/Os with a likely opponent
of the Steelers in NRG.
I say "Go Texans" !
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The isolated Brady GIFs give you no context to the situations. Sadly, moping on the bench has not been an uncommon event with Stroud.
So, you can't put him in the same pedigree of a 10-15 year vet.... but you DO know that even a 10-15 year vet started at years 1-2 right? In order to reach that 10-15 year mark, there will be progression and regression.
Does CJ have a LOT of things that need fixing before they truly become habit and unlearnable turning a once "coulda shoulda been" into a "never was"? Absolutely. But IF his emotions are there so is his care. Just like any relationship, happy, mad.... shows one cares. Its the indifference that tells you there is no salvaging it.
Do I like to see a grown man crying/pouting etc? No, but this is a different generation for better or worse.
All that said, Im not willing to cut and run on CJ, its a sophomore slump and it happens. I have however given up on this offensive coaching staff and would LOVE to see what trajectory CJ takes #1 under new offensive leadership #2 an upgraded line. Are they the ONLY problems absolutely not.... but IF you give him the tools to succeed and cant.... you move on. A suspect line and leadership is not the best tools for success, improve those things and IF he doesn't progress THEN it is 100% on CJ
Our last “star” QB also pouted on the bench plenty of games. He then signed a contract and demanded a trade months later. There are no more excuses. Either your QB is a leader or he isn’t. The “this is a new generation” excuse doesn’t work when you’re a professional QB looking to be the highest paid ever. If Stroud is not going to be held accountable by the coaches, the end result will be the same in a few years.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I just think defenses have caught up to the Shanny system.
CJ and Purdy’s #’s look identical right now.
CJ and Purdy’s #’s look identical right now.
They put him in that same pedigree when it suits their argument…
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Have yall ever heard of a resting ***** face?
Stroud had a baby face and when it’s emotionless it looks like a pouting face.
One other thing, are we really ******* talking about this?
Who gives a **** what his face looks like in the sideline? I care what he looks like on the field. Make the throws he is supposed to make which he didn’t this past game.
The kid lost his confidence. His OL is **** and so is the OC play calling.
Stroud had a baby face and when it’s emotionless it looks like a pouting face.
One other thing, are we really ******* talking about this?
Who gives a **** what his face looks like in the sideline? I care what he looks like on the field. Make the throws he is supposed to make which he didn’t this past game.
The kid lost his confidence. His OL is **** and so is the OC play calling.
And if the coaches aren't held accountable by owners the results will also be the same. Im willing to give more grace to a player than a coach one is just coming into the business the other has... at least, should have already been exposed to what it takes to succeed at this level and how they should lead. Players spend the vast majority of their playing times up to the professional level trusting and listening to coaches... why would they start ignoring them now?
Also, you trying to equate a pout to him being no different than the masseuse marauder is laughable. You breathe oxygen so you must be a murderer cause you and Ted Bundy have that in common or emotion for emotion... you have gotten angry so did he.... you smiled once, so did he.... regardless Stroud isn't getting "the highest paid ever" any time soon so that portion of your argument is irrelevant. Either he proves he is worth that contract or he doesn't either way, who ISN'T looking to be the "highest paid" in their field? Doesn't mean they will get it.
If the leaders of your leaders are weak..... you will see exactly what we are seeing now.... weak coaching will lead to weak ill prepared/impotent players.
No excuses means you have to put blame where it belongs and I already said CJ has a lot to work on to fix his portion of the problem... but to act like his pouting is the biggest problem this team faces because its what the previous QB did is ridiculous.
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If you don’t think Stroud’s agent will demand he be the highest paid QB in NFL history, you might be in denial. I’m strictly comparing Stroud and Watson with their on the field play/antics. The excuses are sounding very similar.
Watson held on to the ball too long, got happy feet in the pocket and scrambled when he didn’t need to.
Stroud has developed happy feet, holds on to the ball too long and scrambles backward into sacks JUST LIKE Watson.
It was everybody else’s fault but Watson’s
Now it’s everybody else’s fault but Stroud’s
Stroud apparently cannot even hit intermediate wide open throws. That has zero to do with coaching.
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TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Tell me more about how this year Stroud has developed happy feet. Are is scrambling into sacks. Or why he is missing throws he made earlier this year and last year and now can’t.
You are focused on the symptoms and not the cause of those problems.
You equate it to people making excuses for Stroud. No. That’s not it.
We saw Stroud last year and his potential when kept upright. Posters even noted at the end of last season that Slowik’s play calling was suspect.
The newly hired OL coach should be fired. Slowik should be fired too. That is the direct cause of Stroud’s problems.
You are all about accountability so you should agree on that.
If you have a car with a flat tire you replace the tire. You don’t sell the car.
Caserio needs to get rid of some of the players on the OL. And - since Caserio has no problem firing coaches he should put pressure on Demeco to get rid of Slowik.
If Stroud still has the same problems by the time his rookie contract expires I would not resign him and be in the same situation as Dallas is with Dak.
I agree with you there. I just think it’s too early to make that call with the everything that has happened this year.
ghostlight
Veteran
As I said I didn’t get to watch the game but only looked at the game stats. Sounds like he was run ning for his life
banned1976
sleeper mode
I think there's more to it than that.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Probably.
Seeing his best friend go down with a potentially career ending injury on a TD pass he threw 4 days prior isn’t helping his mental state.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Is it just me or does the “game plan better” comments from players seem to be increasing?
Maybe I’m misremembering. But did Hunter make a single play yesterday?
badboy
Hall of Fame
2 combined tackles and I think one pressure.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
You could say that but it wouldn't account for all the open guys he's just not seeing or overthrowing. The missing WR's aren't being adequately replaced. Probably can't be. The OL not getting their pass protection done is also something that is beyond his control. This is true. He's not rising above it though. Watson was able to create when things fell apart. At least he was at the beginning of his career. Only time he looked brilliant was when he was running for his life and hitting someone nobody else was even following. Stroud cannot do that. He is not doing it. What's got so many of us worried is that he looks like a guy who needs everything to be right in order to succeed. That's concerning because rarely is everything going to go right at once. David Carr looked fantastic when no one could get to him and AJ was running to a pre-determined spot. The rest of the time he looked bad.
CJ is better than all of that but the body language doesn't look good. The language doesn't look good and the decisions don't look good. Everyone is more than happy to pile on Slow for this but CJ ain't making it easy.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
He was the guy playing zone defense like it was a basketball game against Lamar Jackson before he ran into the end zone instead of just going in for the sack. Granted - it’s hard to catch Lamar but it was a bad look.
Texansballer74
The Marine
He wasn’t running for his life like that. Several of those sacks were caused by him not getting rid of the ball. Several times his read was Dalton, but for some reason, he didn’t trust his arm or whatever. Last year he was throwing the ball with anticipation. Now he’s second guessing himself in which are resulting in sacks, interceptions and poorly placed ball placements.
Several games way before the bye, during one of those players only meeting, he expressed about “‘getting back to having fun”. It’s very clear to me he’s not doing that at all. He’s overthinking things out there. The timing in his head is dam near completely off. And when his boy went down again, one would think that would’ve motivated him and this squad to doing better.
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I am also very frustrated and disappointed with this season. Particularly, I am very frustrated with Demeco's in ability, or unwillingness, to address the performance and effort issues along the offensive line (which were easy to identify back in September). Clearly, also, our OC is not ready for the big time... he is not able to problem-solve and/or accurately assess personnel. I am worried about the organization's future now... while I was very confident and bullish on it 3 months ago.
While all that is true, it is also true that Caserio and Demeco dramatically reversed the trajectory and quality of this team over the past two seasons... From a talent standpoint, we can debate how good/bad someone is/will become (and this is a disappointing season for many player performances). However, Stroud, Stingley, WAnderson, Bullock, Pitre, Lassiter, Stover, Nico re-signing at a very reasonable rate.. among a number of other young, quality pieces is an excellent base of young talent to build a team around. They've done very good work, even if the regular season is a disappointing step back.
Can you show me tears coming from Brady's eyes when he is not hoisting a trophy?
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Danielle Hunter: The biggest thing we could do was just game plan better
The Texans were embarrassed by the Ravens on Wednesday, with Baltimore finishing the contest with 432 total yards, including 251 yards rushing.
www.nbcsports.com
Bugman7star
All Pro
This season has been incredibly frustrating. When it comes to team "culture," something that has bothered me is that in every game I watch, I haven't seen a sideline shot showing coaches or players trying to rally one another. I've seen many times when QBs like Mahomes and Brady were yelling and trying to get their teammates going. I haven't seen DeMeco do it. I haven't seen Stroud do it. So the optics indicate that there is something more eating away at this team. Can it be fixed? Absolutely. But the Texans coaches and players are the only ones that can change things.
Somethings probably have been attempted to be addressed in house and hasn’t worked.Baltimore has been the same team for a few years: physical running game, opportunistic passing game and a physical defense. We should know what they bring to the table. We just got punched in the mouth. Man, I dislike when players share things (true or not) with the media that probably should be kept in-house.Danielle Hunter: The biggest thing we could do was just game plan better
The Texans were embarrassed by the Ravens on Wednesday, with Baltimore finishing the contest with 432 total yards, including 251 yards rushing.
I started seeing signs of Stroud's challenges last season, but chalked it up to rookie inexperience. He was taking some bad sacks, holding the ball too long, and not seeing open 2nd and 3rd options. He got away with it because the system was working for him more often than not. Now that opponents have obviously figured out the system, Stroud's issues are magnified. I had high hopes but those are slowly fading. I'm not saying he's a bad QB, but if it doesn't get fixed then he's going to be mediocre at best.
I'm not as concerned about the coaching issues because those are more easily replaced when needed. Franchise QBs are once in a generation jackpots.
I'm not as concerned about the coaching issues because those are more easily replaced when needed. Franchise QBs are once in a generation jackpots.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
For those who use Tom Brady as the standard-bearer (which I don't disagree with), remember his career arc:
He needed a lot of help as a rookie and was supported by great coaches and a team that relied on defense and special teams. He wasn't asked to do very much... Then, after the Superbowl win, they did not make the playoffs the next season and it was widely reported that Brady's sophomore slump had a lot to do with complacency/etc.. after his immediate success. The team, and Brady, got their **** together the next season and won back to back superbowls, I believe. However, his career trajectory wasn't without significant blips.
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I disagree with your assessment. I agree that he sometimes held on to the ball too long. However, I believe it is simply a result of learning the league, trying to figure how and when to try to make a play.... I have not seen that Stroud struggles to move off his primary target. I am quite critical of QBs and their process within the pocket. Stroud has impressed me, consistently, in that regard... Of course, he makes mistakes. And, I have seen some regression in his process the past 6 weeks or so. I attribute almost all of that to the offensive issues and also Stroud pressing and also losing confidence in what the offense is doing. I think Stroud has all the tools to be an elite QB. I have not seen anything to make believe differently this season. However, my confidence, that he will get "there" under this regime is not what it was after last season ended.
LMAO. Here comes the faux body language experts and there is a Mulugeta ghost roaming the halls of NRG alarmists who always seem to pop up and relish the opportunity to trash the kid.
As the QB and leader of the team, I would have preferred seeing Stroud consoling his team rather than the one being consoled. However, this a kid who just turned 23 years old in October and had an emotional response to his best friend being severely injured while having a first-hand knowledge of how hard Dell worked to get over the pain and rehab of his previous injuries. Stroud had a human reaction. It's easy for us couch potatoes and keyboard warriors who are probably way older than 23 to judge his reaction and expect more.
At the end of the day. Stroud has not had a good season. He has struggled and his OC and OL have not done him any favors. More than one thing can be true. Shoot, I'm more concerned about this struggling offense and I'm not seeing enough of the QB coach and OC with a tablet sitting next to Stroud than him pouting.
As the QB and leader of the team, I would have preferred seeing Stroud consoling his team rather than the one being consoled. However, this a kid who just turned 23 years old in October and had an emotional response to his best friend being severely injured while having a first-hand knowledge of how hard Dell worked to get over the pain and rehab of his previous injuries. Stroud had a human reaction. It's easy for us couch potatoes and keyboard warriors who are probably way older than 23 to judge his reaction and expect more.
At the end of the day. Stroud has not had a good season. He has struggled and his OC and OL have not done him any favors. More than one thing can be true. Shoot, I'm more concerned about this struggling offense and I'm not seeing enough of the QB coach and OC with a tablet sitting next to Stroud than him pouting.
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amazing80
Hall of Fame
I don't know his reads but when his back foot hits the ball needs to come out, and he had time to do that. He had the right flat open when his foot hit the ground. I think his processing is slow, his pre-snap read showed the middle of the field was covered, he should have known to move onto his outlet quicker. A common problem this season...
No excuse for the play design, other than trying to isolate the flat, which it appears Stroud never even looked there, so maybe it wasn't the target.
He had an emotional reaction. That’s fine. That cannot shake him up for multiple games.
banned1976
sleeper mode
It is as is coach Ryans saying "we need to execute better." I believe that's the first thing he said after the post-game interview yesterday.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
Brady -earned- the right to pout. Stroud has -not-. Come on man!
Well with that I disagree.
IF anything the more you grow and better you become the more you lose the right to pout.
I would expect a veteran that "has earned the right to pout" to get fired up and angry at himself and make darn sure they don't do it again cause they know better... rather than to pout.
IMO a man/player in need of growth that has yet to come... but is at the professional level... has earned that right.
I don't want to or like to see it but.... IF a league vet goes out and pouts it is far more pathetic than a man who isnt even of age for his brain to be fully developed at 25 (so I keep hearing is the age of full development.)
IF anything the more you grow and better you become the more you lose the right to pout.
I would expect a veteran that "has earned the right to pout" to get fired up and angry at himself and make darn sure they don't do it again cause they know better... rather than to pout.
IMO a man/player in need of growth that has yet to come... but is at the professional level... has earned that right.
I don't want to or like to see it but.... IF a league vet goes out and pouts it is far more pathetic than a man who isnt even of age for his brain to be fully developed at 25 (so I keep hearing is the age of full development.)
Texansballer74
The Marine
Wow terrible route concepts. Just horrific!
DanielTx
Chosen one
What are you saying exactly. Cj and his teammates shouldn’t have cried after Tank Dell devastating injury?
If you’re referring to pouting, Brady is the poster boy
DanielTx
Chosen one
like saying a person should be free after committing a crime because there rich
Looks like the right inside receiver got knocked off the clear out route (or ran the route incorrectly)for the short and middle crossers. And there were dudes outside of both hashes.
This year we're having some of the same discussions about Stroud that we were having about Carr
You just said the quiet part out loud.