I just watched the QB school with CJ & yeah, his pocket presence has gotten much better. Little moves buying lots of time.
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CJ Stroud year 2
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
So we're saying he's had a clean pocket ridiculously less than every other QB in the league & he's been performed better than any QB in the league with a clean pocket... ridiculously better?
Is that how you read that?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Exactly and the play action would be lethal if they get the running game going. Probably would get real ugly for the Steelers.
banned1976
sleeper mode
The S2 thing is obnoxious to me. A scant few mentioned CJ's alleged low S2 test score prior to the draft. Now it's mentioned all the time on this board.
CJ has looked a lot better than I expected he would. Absolutely nothing to do with his S2, I never put much stock in it to begin with, but it's like Coach Fox mentioned, it's because he walked into a less than ideal situation. The situation around him (rookie coaches, injuries to key players, the culture of mediocrity...) actually got worse and he improved. I wouldn't have expected any quarterback drafted over the past few years to do what Stroud has done. He's had to put the ball in the air 121 times over three games, hasn't been picked, and has had a line that is patched together with odds and ends.
Anyone that denies Stroud has been impressive is either stubborn, disingenuous, or has exceedingly lofty expectations of not only Stroud but the team around him. After a twenty-point blowout of the Jags it's easy to forget this team is full of holes and very young.
CJ has looked a lot better than I expected he would. Absolutely nothing to do with his S2, I never put much stock in it to begin with, but it's like Coach Fox mentioned, it's because he walked into a less than ideal situation. The situation around him (rookie coaches, injuries to key players, the culture of mediocrity...) actually got worse and he improved. I wouldn't have expected any quarterback drafted over the past few years to do what Stroud has done. He's had to put the ball in the air 121 times over three games, hasn't been picked, and has had a line that is patched together with odds and ends.
Anyone that denies Stroud has been impressive is either stubborn, disingenuous, or has exceedingly lofty expectations of not only Stroud but the team around him. After a twenty-point blowout of the Jags it's easy to forget this team is full of holes and very young.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
I believe this decision has to be made before you hire an agent...the minute you do that you lose your amateur status and cant return collegiately.
badboy
Hall of Fame
After researching the CBA my understanding: all college football players in addition to international must go through draft process.
Caleb Williams if he leaves college: immediately becomes eligible for NFL draft. Each NFL team in turn may select him in the next draft. If no one selects him, he then become UDFA; but only after he completes his contract with the other league.
By returning to school, he can "manipulate" system slightly to avoid bad team drafting him but takes 'risk' that same team could pick him following year.
He could convince the team that wants to draft him to trade the pick to a team he agrees to play for.
badboy
Hall of Fame
But this doesn't apply in OptimisticTexan scenario. Player would want an agent if he was not returning to university to negotiate USFL contract then the NFL contract.
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sprtsfanatic
Veteran
what about supplemental draft?? how does that work?
An NFL team could draft him even if he does sign with a USFL team, just to obtain the draft rights. Ex: Herschel Walker
Deculous is a pretty good run blocker, but sucks in the pass game. He's the polar opposite of Christian.
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You mentioned ‘run’ in both instances. What about the pass?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Slightly different animal:
How NFL Supplemental Draft works: What you need to know for 2023
The 2023 NFL supplemental draft has reportedly been scheduled for Tuesday, July 11
www.cbssports.com
No players selected in 2023 supplemental draft
The first supplemental draft since 2019 quietly came and went on Tuesday with no team making a selection, according to multiple reports.
www.nbcsports.com
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yep that's what I said.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Mistype. "...sucks in the PASS game". Christian grades out in the 70's and 80's in the pass game. Has long arms and nimble feet. For some reason just hasn't performed to expectations in blocking the run, with grades in the 50's and below.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
How many players have come out publicly and stated they wanted to dictate which NFL team(s) they'd like to play for besides Manning? Caleb Williams has made his position known....all I'm thinking, there's a possible loophole for him to work with.
Caleb Williams announces he's staying for another USC season freeing him from the draft, but then enters into a contract with one of the USFL franchises. No doubt they would pay him decently for a season b/c of publicity he'd bring to the new league provided an agreement is made between the USFL and XFL. If he goes this route, no doubt his agent would get him an insurance policy against career ending injury. Most important, he'd finish his contractual obligation (2 Years Minimum w/ an opt out after first year) to the USFL team ends July 2024 or well before the 2024 NFL season kicks-off. NFL Draft would happen 25 April 2024, which means an NFL would have no way of drafting a professional football player from another team. Caleb and his agent could immediately start negotiating with the team(s) of his choice in July of 2024 or at seasons end.
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Kenny Robinson played for the XFL St. Louis Battlehawks in the spring of 2020, and was drafted in the 5th round by the Carolina Panthers in the 2020 NFL draft. Robinson left school 3 years after his HS class, and still had draft eligibility. In the Williams scenario you outlined, he would still be eligible for the 2024 NFL draft.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Looks like Mina is saying “S2, FU, whateveeeeeer”.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
IMO all the tests that the NFL has done and tried doing are just trying to get an idea of a player. But, none of them measure the heart, desire, determination and overall way a player is going to respond when they walk out of the locker room and feel that difference. See the speed of the game and more importantly get hit by a 300lb guy wanting to take your head off at a speed that only WRs, RBs and DBs had in school. It is how they respond to that that tells the team if they have a good player or not.
Plus the ability to retain knowledge at some positions is very necessary.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
True, after taking a big hit. You still (minus an injury) shake it off and know 100% what you are supposed to do on the very next play. No school type test has yet to be designed that can tell if a player can do that.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yep, except the CBA says he can't do that.
My youngest son is a "Rocketeer" in Rocket League and was ranked in the top 10 nationally at one point.
He'd ace that S2 score.
But he'd make a lousy NFL QB.
To me this is scouts, coaches, GMs, and analysts, grasping at anything that might give them a tiny insight into the things that make a QB great or not at the pro level.
The truth is actual NFL game film is the only true trustworthy barometer of analysis. Everything else is John Godfrey Saxe's story of the blind men and the elephant.
You should have seen him when he first got there, he would lock on to one receiver and then run. He also had a lot more time at Ohio State for most games to make it to his second or third read, although even then it was spotty. I never saw Justin as a 1st round pick, but more of a third round pick that needed to develop or be a solid backup. Haskins had elite talent, but was VERY immature and I think that showed its ugly head all the way up until he passed.
Funny, all the critique of Stroud and his inability to handle pressure. This was a big topic for us Ohio State fans last year, and we saw him improve a lot as the season went on and Day said that they were working a lot on it. All you need to do is watch his game vs UGA and you can see the strides he made. Stroud is a sponge, that has elite accuracy and football IQ and I expect him to be a multiple All-Pro.
Porky
Hall of Fame
From your keyboard to God’s iPad!
badboy
Hall of Fame
I don't know DB, I suggest you put him on the market and see what he can get as an NFL QB. Oh, wait.. I know you are not a Nigerian doctor but did anyone go to Ohio State or Clemson?
Texansballer74
The Marine
And the thing is the supporting cast as well as coaching is very pivotal to not only a successful team but a successful quarterback. If you don’t have a top notch offensive coordinator or one with a great plan (development/implementing/creative/etc) Then you’ll be wasting that quarterbacks time as well as the entire team. IMO
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
no, but I slept at a holiday inn express last night....
How was Fields able to put up the stats that he did at OSU? NVM. I just found the answer. Stroud's averages are a lot higher than Fields.
Justin Fields Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com
C.J. Stroud Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com
I didn't see Stoud's accuracy under pressure issues as much of an issue since he didn't throw INTs or take a lot of sacks.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Williams would lose MILLIONS on his first contract. You actually have to ENTER the draft. You cannot be drafted while playing for another professional league. Rules are different now. The NFL does not want players to manipulate the draft process. There is NO WAY for Williams to "choose" his team.
I am seeing a lot of Caleb Williams is a goat tier prospect and I just don't see it.
Does he look like Pat Mahomes playing against sub par comp in college? Yeah, I can see the resemblance.
The man is rarely on time with the ball. More of a see it then throw it type player which is why he gets in those scramble situations which are incredible.
Add to the fact he is immature, and I just can't say he is a safer prospect than CJ was.
Prefer Penix's potential as a thrower in the next level but thats a whole different story.
Does he look like Pat Mahomes playing against sub par comp in college? Yeah, I can see the resemblance.
The man is rarely on time with the ball. More of a see it then throw it type player which is why he gets in those scramble situations which are incredible.
Add to the fact he is immature, and I just can't say he is a safer prospect than CJ was.
Prefer Penix's potential as a thrower in the next level but thats a whole different story.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
Correct.
He has the least clean pockets, but with a clean pocket he's better than anyone.
Could be a bit of a sample sizing thing though.
That's very specific..
I came her to post this video.
I'm hoping we have a lot more of these happy analysis videos in our futures. 
Haven't seen this posted
andscape.com
Houston Texans quarterback C.J. Stroud is off to a sizzling start
Only three games into his pro career, Houston Texans quarterback C.J. Stroud has performed as if he’s been in the NFL for a minute now. Off to a great start, th…
andscape.com
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Today is a trap day for CJ. The media was mostly ignoring him after the first two games, and now he seems to get hyped up by most outlets. This could very well be a game, after which most outlets come down on him again.
Our O-line is even worse than before, when we were “only“ missing 4 starters. And Pittsburgh has maybe the best defense we have seen all year, at the very least the best pass rusher. And while CJs 0 interception have been highlighted, he easily had 3 or 4 passes that could have and should have been intercepted, so him throwing one or two today wouldn‘t be unexpected. So today could be a bad game for CJ - it shouldn‘t change the story too much, but after the media “overpraising“ him, this could go into the opposite direction pretty fast.
Our O-line is even worse than before, when we were “only“ missing 4 starters. And Pittsburgh has maybe the best defense we have seen all year, at the very least the best pass rusher. And while CJs 0 interception have been highlighted, he easily had 3 or 4 passes that could have and should have been intercepted, so him throwing one or two today wouldn‘t be unexpected. So today could be a bad game for CJ - it shouldn‘t change the story too much, but after the media “overpraising“ him, this could go into the opposite direction pretty fast.
CJ ain't going to have a trap day. He is too focused.
He may not play well due to constant pressure, but I think if he is given a clean pocket, he will continue to perform well.
I am fully expecting the Texans to run a lot of pass on early down as the Steelers will be expecting them to try and run on their horrid run defense.
He's probably not going to have a clean pocket very often.
I didn't think he would last week, and the line held up well.
I remember the days of playing the Patriots when they were banged up on the OL and we couldn't get to Brady due to him getting the ball out and the game plan against our LB's in the pass game.
If coaching is good, you never know.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
I really hope they max protect and chip with Te's and Rb's all game long. Our T's are going to need the extra help today and if we can accomplish that and keep CJ upright I dont see pickett beating us. If we can protect CJ and the ball I think we have a real shot in this one...which is saying a lot given our Oline circumstances.....ONE MORE GAME and we get some bodies back to help
I hope they spent extra time working on RB & TE screens. Max protect can only do so much when you're only sending one or two guys into the pattern.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
quick slants, that should open us up and have them change their attack...steelers are fast sideline to sideline..havent seen very many screens work against them very well.