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CJ Stroud year 2

Porky said:
lots of rookies do that early on. Case Keenum did it frequently his rookie year. Is he a dumbass too?
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When I compare Cj Stroud to Keenum, & I've done it several times, it is not a compliment.

& yes, I know a lot of rookie QBs do that early on... they're usually chastised for it. That is not what we want our QB to do. Take the sack, throw it away. If you choose to run backwards, you're making a bad choice. Cj ran backwards two or three times today & managed to get out of it without taking a sack. That's what I'm calling an improvement.

He's going to get a lot of practice over the next 4 weeks, I bet you dollars to donuts he's going to learn not to run backwards. That's what the coaches will be telling him. He's running backwards now because he hasn't been coached not to, to me it looks like he hasn't been in enough of these situations to have been told.

That's changed now.
 
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You complain about Steel being all over the map, but you do the same. Upthread you said he ran backwards because he has a low S2. Now it’s what many young bucks do and you are confident he’ll learn from it. So now the dumbass is so smart he’s going to learn from it? Make up your mind.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's getting harder to use the "small sample size" argument to defend Cj Stroud & his low S2 score. It's blatantly obvious that he struggles under pressure.

That said, overall I think he's made progress, handled the pressure better today than what we've seen so far. Still not good, but it looks like something he'll eventually overcome.
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Odd because I didn't see anything blatantly obvious.

In fact I thought he handled it well and worked well in the pocket as well as rolling out and picking up plays that were outside the play design framework. Things he was criticized for coming out of college and so far seems better with his legs than he's ever been given credit for.

To be blunt it seems like confirmation bias more than anything to say he was bad under pressure.
 
Marcus said:
Confirmation bias is exactly what it is. People still have their little peepee hurt that he was taken in the draft, and they hope he fails just so they prove their point.
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Not to mention there was no “confirmation” of anything. It’s just good ol’ fashion bias.
 
Porky said:
You complain about Steel being all over the map, but you do the same. Upthread you said he ran backwards because he has a low S2. Now it’s what many young bucks do and you are confident he’ll learn from it. So now the dumbass is so smart he’s going to learn from it? Make up your mind.
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The S2 says he doesn't react to stimuli well.

My theory is that he hasn't had to.

The more he has to deal with pressure, the better he'll be able to react well.
 
Marcus said:
Confirmation bias is exactly what it is. People still have their little peepee hurt that he was taken in the draft, and they hope he fails just so they prove their point.
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I wouldn't have drafted a QB in this draft. If I had to, I'd have taken Levis, targeting him below 15. But if the Texans were going to draft a QB with the #2 pick I wanted them to take Stroud.

I am not upset the Texans drafted Stroud. I believe they drafted him because they see something special & not because management took a poll.

I don't think any player coming into the NFL is a finished product. They all have something to work on.
 
Porky said:
lots of rookies do that early on. Case Keenum did it frequently his rookie year. Is he a dumbass too?
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I watched Mahams run backwards for 40 yards and get sacked. I guess his S2 is bad too huh. He does that a lot.
I can’t believe someone who is smart and football intelligent like Thunder would even use a test that’s not even set in stones yet. As a knocking point to any freaking player. Freaking unbelievable
 
Texansballer74 said:
I watched Mahams run backwards for 40 yards and get sacked. I guess his S2 is bad too huh. He does that a lot.
I can’t believe someone who is smart and football intelligent like Thunder would even use a test that’s not even set in stones yet. As a knocking point to any freaking player. Freaking unbelievable
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It's not that he does it, it's the frequency with which he does it. Like I said at least three times today.

Just like Keenum, either he'll stop doing it so often, or he won't be considered a starting QB long.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not that he does it, it's the frequency with which he does it. Like I said at least three times today.

Just like Keenum, either he'll stop doing it so often, or he won't be considered a starting QB long.
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And the frequency that Mahomas does it is pretty high. Plus I’ve seen every quarterback do that. It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's getting harder to use the "small sample size" argument to defend Cj Stroud & his low S2 score. It's blatantly obvious that he struggles under pressure.

That said, overall I think he's made progress, handled the pressure better today than what we've seen so far. Still not good, but it looks like something he'll eventually overcome.
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Hope you're right and he can learn to think under pressure better.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I watched Mahams run backwards for 40 yards and get sacked. I guess his S2 is bad too huh. He does that a lot.
I can’t believe someone who is smart and football intelligent like Thunder would even use a test that’s not even set in stones yet. As a knocking point to any freaking player. Freaking unbelievable
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I wish you would not talk about ma's hams.. she just began a new diet.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Right now it looks like his first instinct is to run backwards. When he stops doing that I'll stop fixating on his S2 score.
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Where else does he run when he has pressure in his face immediately after getting the snap? Admit that you just don't like him. You're starting to remind me of SteelB with your fixation on one thing.
 
thunderkyss said:
When I compare Cj Stroud to Keenum, & I've done it several times, it is not a compliment.

& yes, I know a lot of rookie QBs do that early on... their usually chastised for it. That is not what we want our QB to do. Take the sack, throw it away. If you choose to run backwards, you're making a bad choice. Cj ran backwards two or three times today & managed to get out of it without taking a sack. That's what I'm calling an improvement.

He's going to get a lot of practice over the next 4 weeks, I bet you dollars to donuts he's going to learn not to run backwards. That's what the coaches will be telling him. He's running backwards now because he hasn't been coached not to, to me it looks like he hasn't been in enough of these situations to have been told.

That's changed now.
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You would have a low IQ and S2 score using grammar like that. There, their, they're. Learn the difference. Stroud was running backwards because he often had several defenders in his face immediately after getting the ball.
 
Does the S2 measure the heart, love of the game and drive to get better every day? These are innate human instincts that aren’t taught. Seems the S2 is yet another cold scientific human invention used to demean the human spirit which of course can’t be slotted into a number.
 
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Thorn said:
Stroud did not throw an interception his first game as a rookie. That by itself is at least hopeful.
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I think as he settles in his nerves will go away and he hits many more of his passes. He missed some easy throws, and that's not really an indicator of his skills. He is an extremely accurate passer. I was happy with the game. I think we need some tweaks offensively and the OL is still a problem, but the direction of the team is great.
 
DocBar said:
Where else does he run when he has pressure in his face immediately after getting the snap? Admit that you just don't like him. You're starting to remind me of SteelB with your fixation on one thing.
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I love the kid & am looking forward to him getting better.
 
DocBar said:
Where else does he run when he has pressure in his face immediately after getting the snap? Admit that you just don't like him. You're starting to remind me of SteelB with your fixation on one thing.
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I'm certainly not fixating on one thing.

I'm trying to stop the excuses that are already being made. You know the same excuses that these same posters weren't willing to give Mills the benefit of the doubt.

Not saying I want Mills to be the starting QB. But the excuses for Stroud seem a lot like the excuses that could've been made for Mills. OL sucks/WR's suck, Mills predetermines where he's going with the ball etc....
 
DocBar said:
You would have a low IQ and S2 score using grammar like that. There, their, they're. Learn the difference. Stroud was running backwards because he often had several defenders in his face immediately after getting the ball.
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How many times did we type this with Q and Mills last yr?

No excuses.
 
Dejaview said:
Does the S2 measure the heart, love of the game and drive to get better every day? These are innate human instincts that aren’t taught. Seems the S2 is yet another cold scientific human invention used to demean the human spirit which of course can’t be slotted into a number.
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It's also very predictive of a QB's future success in the NFL.

You cant deny the results of poor S-2 has so far equaled poor NFL QB play. Hopefully Stroud can break this trend, but I wouldn't bet the future of the franchise on this like Hannah did just to fill a few seats.
 
Dejaview said:
Does the S2 measure the heart, love of the game and drive to get better every day?
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There's too much confusion in regards to what the S2 is actually measuring. It has zip to do with IQ. It does has something to do with recognition and reaction to a video monitor. Much like a video game. If you're good at video games, you may score well on the S2. Doesn't mean I'm giving you a $multi-million contract to QB my football team. Or even sending you to junior college.
 
Lucky said:
There's too much confusion in regards to what the S2 is actually measuring. It has zip to do with IQ. It does has something to do with recognition and reaction to a video monitor. Much like a video game. If you're good at video games, you may score well on the S2. Doesn't mean I'm giving you a $multi-million contract to QB my football team. Or even sending you to junior college.
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It reflects how well you react under pressure.

Something that Stroud has continued to struggle with.
 
Lucky said:
You know jack about the S2. Not claiming to be an expert, myself. Just that I know enough to know that you know jack.
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I know what I read in an article by the guy who designed the test and the results he gave. Although you're correct neither of us is an expert on this test.
 
steelbtexan said:
It reflects how well you react under pressure.

Something that Stroud has continued to struggle with.
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My point was that he actually showed progress.

In that first game he played (preseason) he was pressured often & early & he didn't look good at all.

In that 2nd game he played "they" were going on about how he "improved" from the previous game. Of course he played better, he wasn't pressured.

Sunday he ran backwards & didn't take a giant sack. Excellent. I'd rather he not run backwards. Step forward, step to the side, run into the back of your RT, I don't care. Don't take a giant sack.

A couple of times he got out of the pocket & ran forward. A couple of times he was indecisive, run/don't run/run.... once you make that decision, you gotta go. This is different from buying time. If that's the decision you make, to buy time, then buy time. If you make the decision to pick up yards, especially if you decide to pick up the first down yourself & move the chains... gotta go.

Then he doesn't know how to slide... more evidence that running is not a part of his game. We know that, we knew that. It's not an insult to say it. He needs to learn how to slide, he needs to learn how to give himself up, he needs to learn how to dive.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Sure would’ve been more convincing if Janice and Hannah were the one’s being interviewed and when that question came up…..in unison, that Caserio guy came into “our” boardroom and stated the team was going to select Will Anderson at 2, and then we said, you shu-up b/c we’ve decided Stroud is going to be our pick…..now get out of here you little life-vest wearing man.

As stated in the past….Caserio and Ryans had a strategy as to how they were going to get a QB (Stroud) and Will Anderson in the same draft. I believe the McNair’s liked the strategy and gave it their blessing.
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I agree. CJ was the QB target I think all along. And making the trade to get Anderson as well was a great show of having a plan and staying with it. I heard a rumor that Caserio had to go to a different option than the original. And got it done in the last few minutes
 
thunderkyss said:
My point was that he actually showed progress.

In that first game he played (preseason) he was pressured often & early & he didn't look good at all.

In that 2nd game he played "they" were going on about how he "improved" from the previous game. Of course he played better, he wasn't pressured.

Sunday he ran backwards & didn't take a giant sack. Excellent. I'd rather he not run backwards. Step forward, step to the side, run into the back of your RT, I don't care. Don't take a giant sack.

A couple of times he got out of the pocket & ran forward. A couple of times he was indecisive, run/don't run/run.... once you make that decision, you gotta go. This is different from buying time. If that's the decision you make, to buy time, then buy time. If you make the decision to pick up yards, especially if you decide to pick up the first down yourself & move the chains... gotta go.

Then he doesn't know how to slide... more evidence that running is not a part of his game. We know that, we knew that. It's not an insult to say it. He needs to learn how to slide, he needs to learn how to give himself up, he needs to learn how to dive. And to throw it away
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Fixed it for you
 
CJ's arm is pretty ridiculous, made some freakish throws. Richardson was a boom-bust rollercoaster (as expected). Levis rode the pine as 3rd on the depth chart (as expected).

Impressed with what he is doing so far, with 3rd rate WRs and tackling dummies as an offensive line. First time to at least have hope since Watson.
 
Dejaview said:
Does the S2 measure the heart, love of the game and drive to get better every day? These are innate human instincts that aren’t taught. Seems the S2 is yet another cold scientific human invention used to demean the human spirit which of course can’t be slotted into a number.
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That’s exactly what it is Dejaview. And as you can see a select few is running with it like it true data. I watched a lot of games on yesterday. I witnessed several quarterbacks retreating backwards when the defense brought the heat. But like I said a book nerd who probably never played organized football a day in his life camp up with this crap. And those select few actually believe in that data. Wow is all I can say.
 
The1ApplePie said:
CJ's arm is pretty ridiculous, made some freakish throws. Richardson was a boom-bust rollercoaster (as expected). Levis rode the pine as 3rd on the depth chart (as expected).

Impressed with what he is doing so far, with 3rd rate WRs and tackling dummies as an offensive line. First time to at least have hope since Watson.
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Haven’t you heard? They didn’t see any of that. None of it. They got the those S2 blinders on, and no matter what he does, from here on out, they’ll just dwell on that, because they didn’t draft the way they wanted.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That’s exactly what it is Dejaview. And as you can see a select few is running with it like it true data. I watched a lot of games on yesterday. I witnessed several quarterbacks retreating backwards when the defense brought the heat. But like I said a book nerd who probably never played organized football a day in his life camp up with this crap. And those select few actually believe in that data. Wow is all I can say.
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Just remembering off the top of my head, but the owners of the S2 limit subscription to their services. But 16 NFL teams subscribe to and use the test in their evaluations.

I serious doubt that the coaching staffs and evaluators of these teams HAVE NOT played a day of organised football.

If it's used by NFL teams then it's certainly something attention can legitimately be paid to.
 
amazing80 said:
Here we go again, it's been one game, against one of the best defenses and toughest for new players to play against, and ya'll already on with this BS.
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Missing 3 starting OL, losing the back up RT and having a LG fill in at RT. Less than ideal circumstances against a good pass rush. I wonder what the outcome would've been if 78and 74 weren't negating 1st downs with untimely penalties.
 
Number19 said:
Just remembering off the top of my head, but the owners of the S2 limit subscription to their services. But 16 NFL teams subscribe to and use the test in their evaluations.

I serious doubt that the coaching staffs and evaluators of these teams HAVE NOT played a day of organised football.

If it's used by NFL teams then it's certainly something attention can legitimately be paid to.
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Some teams put a bunch of faith in WONDERLIC, which was based on a lot of debunked ideas (like the concept of IQ). S2 is more pseudoscience mombo-jombo.

Limiting their service to half the NFL is also a blatant marketing gimmick. Considering their site is filled with word salad ad copy, that is not surprising.
 
zshawn10 said:
I mean Richardson had a high S2 test score supposedly and this is his pass chart from yesterday:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1701076406296272933

Is he too dumb to throw left? I am just being tongue in cheek
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Almost all of his completions were short. Had only 3 greater than 10 yds and the longest of these three was 15 yds plus. You think the coaches are aware of this and will game plan accordingly.
 
Number19 said:
Just remembering off the top of my head, but the owners of the S2 limit subscription to their services. But 16 NFL teams subscribe to and use the test in their evaluations.

I serious doubt that the coaching staffs and evaluators of these teams HAVE NOT played a day of organized football.

If it's used by NFL teams then it's certainly something attention can legitimately be paid to.
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I agree with using it as part of evaluating a player, but not as the end-all-be-all part of the evaluation. It's only been around for 7 years, so there's not a significant amount of historical data to examine.
 
DocBar said:
You would have a low IQ and S2 score using grammar like that. There, their, they're. Learn the difference. Stroud was running backwards because he often had several defenders in his face immediately after getting the ball.
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It took me an hour or so but I finally understood what TK meant. I am such an intellectual!
 
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