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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Texian said:
I think Young loaded up on the carbs to weigh in at 200+ for the Combine but in reality, actually played at 10 lbs. less than Bennett. The BIG brouhaha about size registered solely on how tall Young was, and Bennett has got him by almost an inch. As far as age goes, if he plays thru 2 contracts or 10+ years then age is really a non-factor.
Click to expand...

Do you think Bennett has a better career than Young?
 
Texian said:
I think Young loaded up on the carbs to weigh in at 200+ for the Combine but in reality, actually played at 10 lbs. less than Bennett. The BIG brouhaha about size registered solely on how tall Young was, and Bennett has got him by almost an inch. As far as age goes, if he plays thru 2 contracts or 10+ years then age is really a non-factor.
Click to expand...

He is facing the same issues (size and age) that other prospects are facing, except in the same body. People are downgrading those guys for size alone and age alone.

And the public intox when he was to be getting ready for the draft was my personal reason not Bennet in a discussion as a top prospect.
 
Porky said:
Sounds like Richardson’s agent blowing smoke for his client.

Maybe the rumors around CJ being passed up at both 1.1 and 1.2relate to this test, but the proof is in the pudding. It might be a single datapoint to consider but the film doesn’t lie.
Click to expand...

The results of the S2 are pretty significant .... of the recent players who scored well, they are the current cream of the NFL crop.
Of those who did poorly, NONE of them have worked out.
 
Texian said:
I wouldn't be surprised if that were to happen. The handwriting was there on the wall.
Click to expand...

I don't know what that means but based on a blend of personal opinion, plus professional "draftniks", I think he's a day 3 draftee. I could be wrong of course.

Once in the NFL, I see him as a career backup and spot starter at best, and a total flop at worst.

I personally don't think he's well-suited to be a long-term starter...but time will tell. I've been wrong before. Wouldn't be the first time!

If I'm taking a flyer on a guy late, Aiden O'Connell or Max Duggan are my choices. I'd put Clayton Tune a bit behind those two, but ahead of your guy. That's just me.
 
Corrosion said:
The results of the S2 are pretty significant .... of the recent players who scored well, they are the current cream of the NFL crop.
Of those who did poorly, NONE of them have worked out.
Click to expand...

Probably posted somewhere but here is a link to the s2 article. For this year draft

Young, Levis, and Richardson all scored well and Stroud's score not leaked.

www.profootballnetwork.com

What Is the S2 Cognitive Test, and Does It Matter in Predicting QB Performance?

The S2 Cognitive Test is the new hot evaluation. But in the end, does it actually matter when we look to predict outcomes in QB play?
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
 
Corrosion said:
The results of the S2 are pretty significant .... of the recent players who scored well, they are the current cream of the NFL crop.
Of those who did poorly, NONE of them have worked out.
Click to expand...

Thanks Corrosion. As I understand it, this is a fairly new test given to rookie QB prospects. That would make the sample size pretty small no?

I mean if I flip a coin 5 times, and I get 5 heads in a row...that's a serious trend. If I flip a coin 100 times, and its heads 98 times, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I'd personally never rule out someone over the test. Some people don't test that well. I'm not saying don't consider it...just don't rely on it in total. Talk to the guy, have him draw up plays, look at the film, work him out...etc. All of these things are data points. I wouldn't rely solely on any of those, but the film/play during his college career would take high precedence for me. Nick/Demeco may have a different evaluation.

They are taking a QB early. That I am extremely confident in - I'll find a way to get behind whomever it is and whatever selection...after I cuss at the TV for an hour. What choice do any of us have?
 
Texian said:
I think Young loaded up on the carbs to weigh in at 200+ for the Combine but in reality, actually played at 10 lbs. less than Bennett. The BIG brouhaha about size registered solely on how tall Young was, and Bennett has got him by almost an inch. As far as age goes, if he plays thru 2 contracts or 10+ years then age is really a non-factor.
Click to expand...

I don't view the age thing as an issue as far as how long he can produce for the team that drafts him. Hell, GB drafted Rodgers in the 1st and shelved him for 3 years. The age thing, imo, is more a question to be considered in how they (any older player) produced in college.

The learning curve in highly competitive athletics is it's sharpest at ages 17-25 and if I'm looking at a kid that played really well and produced at a high level but he's doing it at 24/25 years of age going against kids who are 18-22 for the most part then I have to wonder how much of his success is due to being on the back end of that curve versus his opponents. Then I have to wonder how much more he's got in his learning tank, particularly when he's about to begin competing against guys his own age for a change and older.

So sure, he may play for another decade or more and that's great.. but have we already seen the best he'll ever have to offer, and how much of it was due to going against kids he's already lapped once or twice in the experience and development department?
 
Texansballer74 said:
I had to hit the laughing emoji on his comment. Levis is inaccurate, can’t read defenses and is a turnover waiting to happen. Some fans are just a glutton for pain and punishment.
Click to expand...

I think he's got real upside and at the extreme top of his potential...could be a Josh Allen type arm talent. I don't think he's the runner Josh is. He could also be out of the league in 3 years. Very much a boom or bust type. I'm definitely 100% against him at #2. If they want to take a huge gamble...it can't be at #2. That would be even dumber than taking Sting over Sauce last year and that was one of the most brain dead draft decisions ever in this city. Given our history, that's saying something. I would have fired Nick on that alone at the time (I would not fire him now though. That time has passed).

For the love of God Nick...don't get cute and be the smartest guy in the room. If Young goes to Carolina, run the damn card up with CJ's name on it and let's roll.
 
DORIAN THOMPSON-ROBINSON

This is a QB that hasn't gotten much press, but I like the fact that he has gotten better each year at UCLA while learning under Chip Kelly. I love seeing steady improvement in college. He's projected to go in the 7th round or be an UDFA. Given that we're most likely (in my opinion) to draft heavily on the defensive side, this young man could come in with no pressure & have a full year to be coached up. Just thought I'd throw his name out there. Read the bio section by Chad Reuter to see how much he improved each year.

Dorian Thompson-Robinson Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

www.nfl.com
 
Corrosion said:
The results of the S2 are pretty significant .... of the recent players who scored well, they are the current cream of the NFL crop.
Of those who did poorly, NONE of them have worked out.
Click to expand...

What does this test measure? Is it like the Wonderlic of years past or whatever?
 
TheMatrix31 said:
What does this test measure? Is it like the Wonderlic of years past or whatever?
Click to expand...

I believe it’s strictly your processing with “correct answer” speed, how they do that I have no clue. I probably should google if there is any example tests I could take or something. It’s interesting that’s for sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
pirbroke said:
I believe it’s strictly your processing with “correct answer” speed, how they do that I have no clue. I probably should google if there is any example tests I could take or something. It’s interesting that’s for sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
The S2 evaluation tests nine different cognitive skills for QBs.


  1. Perception Speed
  2. Search Efficiency
  3. Tracking Capacity
  4. Visual Learning
  5. Instinctive Learning
  6. Decision Complexity
  7. Distraction Control
  8. Impulse Control
  9. Improvisation

The site does a good job of giving visitors vital information about the tests and their results through its blog. But a Twitter thread from their account a few days ago gives the most succinct overview of what they do.



“The S2 Eval uses decades of scientifically validated measures to evaluate cognitive capacity as it relates to high-speed decision-making. These measures have been in the literature and used by labs around the world for years ( i.e., strong psychometrics). The data from the S2 Eval was vetted by professional analytics groups and academics. We also consulted with coaches, front office personnel, and scouts to create the S2 Eval.


“It is the first of its kind to apply these lab-based measures to elite athletes. The Eval has been used and valued by pro and college organizations for nearly a decade. The S2 Eval has nothing to do with how smart someone is or how well they can read a playbook.


“All athletes have cognitive strengths and weaknesses, just like physical traits. If athletes and their coaches learn how to play based on their strengths they will see a lot more success out of that athlete. And as we know, cognition is only one piece of the puzzle. There are multiple components that make up an athlete.”


S2 is not a be-all, end-all measurement for athletes. As they stated, cognition is only one piece of the athletic puzzle. But for quarterbacks specifically, the evaluation could be as telling as anything else over the long run.


First, it’s important to note that quarterbacks test higher (68) than the average (50) for all positions. S2 tested 117 quarterbacks at the time of their blog post, and of the 27 starters they tested, they dropped them into two different buckets.



The top-tier starters were those with a career QB rating of over 90. Meanwhile, the rest ended up in the lower-tier bucket. There were 14 top-tier quarterbacks and 13 lower-tier among the 27 starters. The rest were backup players or those never signed by teams.


Using a regression model, S2 found that the quarterback’s score accounted for 28.7% of their career passer rating, meaning that about a quarter of passer rating can be predicted by or explained by an S2 score. For reference, college completion percentage explains 13.5% of passer rating, while the Wonderlic sits at a cool 0.01%.


S2 notes there were four scores of the nine that the top-tier quarterbacks performed at least 25 percentile points higher than the lower tier. Those four were Tracking Capacity (45 points), Instinctive Learning (31 points), Decision Complexity (29 points), and Distraction Control (26 points).
Click to expand...

www.profootballnetwork.com

What Is the S2 Cognitive Test, and Does It Matter in Predicting QB Performance?

The S2 Cognitive Test is the new hot evaluation. But in the end, does it actually matter when we look to predict outcomes in QB play?
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
 
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Porky said:
I think he's got real upside and at the extreme top of his potential...could be a Josh Allen type arm talent. I don't think he's the runner Josh is. He could also be out of the league in 3 years. Very much a boom or bust type. I'm definitely 100% against him at #2. If they want to take a huge gamble...it can't be at #2. That would be even dumber than taking Sting over Sauce last year and that was one of the most brain dead draft decisions ever in this city. Given our history, that's saying something. I would have fired Nick on that alone at the time (I would not fire him now though. That time has passed).

For the love of God Nick...don't get cute and be the smartest guy in the room. If Young goes to Carolina, run the damn card up with CJ's name on it and let's roll.
Click to expand...
Trade back, if it's there, preferably with Seattle or Detroit, for their second one, giving us three ones this year.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't view the age thing as an issue as far as how long he can produce for the team that drafts him. Hell, GB drafted Rodgers in the 1st and shelved him for 3 years. The age thing, imo, is more a question to be considered in how they (any older player) produced in college.

The learning curve in highly competitive athletics is it's sharpest at ages 17-25 and if I'm looking at a kid that played really well and produced at a high level but he's doing it at 24/25 years of age going against kids who are 18-22 for the most part then I have to wonder how much of his success is due to being on the back end of that curve versus his opponents. Then I have to wonder how much more he's got in his learning tank, particularly when he's about to begin competing against guys his own age for a change and older.

So sure, he may play for another decade or more and that's great.. but have we already seen the best he'll ever have to offer, and how much of it was due to going against kids he's already lapped once or twice in the experience and development department?
Click to expand...
So will those 18 - 22-year-olds be able to produce at the level Bennett has produced the last two years? Doubtful? So by all accords in your analysis, Bennett is 3 to 4 years ahead of his competition and in a better position to be a starter in the NFL?
 
Porky said:
I don't know what that means but based on a blend of personal opinion, plus professional "draftniks", I think he's a day 3 draftee. I could be wrong of course.

Once in the NFL, I see him as a career backup and spot starter at best, and a total flop at worst.

I personally don't think he's well-suited to be a long-term starter...but time will tell. I've been wrong before. Wouldn't be the first time!

If I'm taking a flyer on a guy late, Aiden O'Connell or Max Duggan are my choices. I'd put Clayton Tune a bit behind those two, but ahead of your guy. That's just me.
Click to expand...
What that means is National Championships Bennett 2, Stroud 0, Young 0. Head-to-Head in National Championship games Bennett 1 vs Stroud 0; Bennett 1 vs Young 0.

If I'm taking a flyer it is Bennett or Jack Haener
 
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Texian said:
So will those 18 - 22-year-olds be able to produce at the level Bennett has produced the last two years? Doubtful? So by all accords in your analysis, Bennett is 3 to 4 years ahead of his competition and in a better position to be a starter in the NFL?
Click to expand...

Depends on the steepness of their potential learning curves. They're still by and large going up theirs where Bennett already has, in regards to that all important development phase.

He may be in a better position to be a starter as of this second than a lot of other kids younger than him, question remains how long that would hold given they still have more ground to cover that he's already maxed out.
 
Texian said:
What that means is National Championships Bennett 2, Stroud 0, Young 0. Head-to-Head in National Championship games Bennett 1 vs Stroud 0; Bennett 1 vs Young 0.

If I'm taking a flyer it is Bennett or Jack Haener
Click to expand...
Do you think he is worth one of our 7ths?
 
No mention of Hooker. Interesting.

I’m reading the tea leaves. If young isn’t there, try to work a trade where you can still get Anderson. If not, then Anderson at 2. Then figure out how to get Hooker. He’s the last guy that the consensus is decent starter or above. This is extremely ballsy and risky and could blow up in their faces and lead to Nick finding an Apple and a roadmap on his desk.

it’s not what I would do by a long shot, but it’s not completely indefensible. Imo, after Anderson they need to focus on adding offensive skill position guys to pair with Hooker. He is going to need way more patience and help from his teammates. Give him a Gibbs at RB and a speedy guy at WR and a C. Mix together and see what you’ve got. Like I said - very very risky especially when CJ balls out with the Colts.
 
Texansphan said:
Disagree. His 40 time is 4.82 seconds - this means he will have trouble getting around pass protectors.
Anderson's time is 4.6 and he has better stats.
Myles Murphy is 4.58 at the same size and weight as Wilson.
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He's coming off a foot injury. Watch him play and his length against bigger players. He doesn't get swallowed up like Anderson. Getting around pass protectors isn't measured in 40 yds, it's measured in that short burst, bend, and hand placement. Clowney ran a 4.5 , but was stiff in the hips and couldn't bend.
 
Texansphan said:
He had a range of moves second to none and his first step was something else.
He also went through most of the time.
Wilson is a one trick pony relying on his strength and his bullrush. He will have to develop a substantial repertoire of moves before he becomes anywhere near as effective as the 4.91 guy.
Click to expand...
What film you're watching?
 
Lucky said:
The Texans trading up from #12 to #3 is a ballsy move. The draft chart says 1000 points. That would be #33 + a 2024 1st. Then there's the competition from maybe 3 other teams for the pick? It would only get more expensive.
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Also very expensive from the salary cap side.
 
I think young is our guy if available. If not, they want a trade back and Hooker (beyond #12.) If a trade can't be arranged they'll take Anderson.

I like the confusion we're starting to create. It may seem like we've got our heads up our azz again, but right now no team can tell who we're targeting.

We're making #2 a trade destination for anyone in the cj crowd AND the Anderson crowd.
 
Texian said:
Stetson Bennett
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span40-yard dash10-yard split20-yard shuttleVertical jumpBroad jump
5 ft 11 in
(1.80 m)		192 lb
(87 kg)		28+7⁄8 in
(0.73 m)		10 in
(0.25 m)		4.67 s1.59 s4.2 s33.5 in
(0.85 m)		9 ft 10 in
(3.00 m)
All values from NFL Combine
vs


Bryce Young
Pre-draft measurables
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span
5 ft 10+1⁄8 in
(1.78 m)		204 lb
(93 kg)		30+1⁄2 in
(0.77 m)		9+3⁄4 in
(0.25 m)
All values from NFL Combine[37][38]
Click to expand...
AcresHomesTexan said:
Yes, Bennett is smaller...i.e. lighter in the ass at not even a full inch taller
Click to expand...

Just need to point out that Bennet's 192 lb weight at the Combine was not "manufactured," as was Young's 204 lbs.
Bennet played his entire college career at 190 lbs.
 
Porky said:
All I know is you can’t hit a home run with your bat on your shoulder. Given the importance of QB, when you see a fastball coming straight down the pipe, you take your best hack and hope you connect. If you strikeout, you go back to the dugout and try again another day.

to put it a different way, looking at it from a risk/reward prospective, it’s much riskier for the Texans to pass on Stroud if he is the guy at 2 and watch him succeed elsewhere, then it is to select him and he fails. Nick is a huge analytics guy and I’m surehe understands the risk/reward ratio here. Even if this S2 wasn’t particularly good (which may help explain why he doesn’t play so well off-schedule) go back to his game play. No, he doesn’t process like Young, no he isn’t going to be nearly the creator that Young is, but he seems to go through reads reasonably well, get it to the right guy on time,and with excellent accuracy. At it basics, that is the definition of a QB. If they protect him reasonably well, and put some weapons around him, I think given development time…he can be a borderline top 10 guy, maybe even inside the top 10. You can’t pass on that guy when you have your chance given you were 32nd best at the position last year.
Click to expand...
Yep. He is great throwing to wide open receivers behind an OL that rarely let's him get touched. When he does get pressure he is absolutely horrible. Except in one game. Now we are told not to judge other QBs by one bad game, but people are judging Stroud by one good game where he had pressure AND had over a month to prepare for that game.
 
This is shaping up the way I hoped it would if the rumors are true. My only concern about trading down: I do not think that Anderson will be there [Az at 3] and that is not a huge problem for me as I prefer tyree wilson. I do think highly possible if Texans trade down Az could also allowing Anderson to fall.

Best scenario for me would be Colts missing out on LJ to trade up for 2 sooner than later to prevent another team doing so. IMO Indy would prefer Stroud over Richardson. It would be great if Lions and Seattle would add pressure and ATL also. I'm not seeing much in rumors of Titans trading up for QB but it could also help.

Best news is we can get QB, WR, Edge, OC and another player with top 5 picks by end of day 2. Trades from 2 and 12 could add extra.

Five starters in draft plus 2-3 depth added to our FA would be really good in rebuilding.

Round 1 Anderson & Wilson
Round 2 Hyatt and Hook
Round 3 Best OC and Rice
 
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