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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

frethack said:
You are absolutely correct about the Shanahan Offense, with the added caveats that it tends to be run heavy and that the zone run is used to set up the pass. Philosophically, the Shanahan offense is looking to create horizontal space for the RB and for chunk yardage off play action. It also tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on run plays. Its really not even the WCO except in how the plays are called...and even that has probably evolved. And I completely agree that 54% completion does not cut it. My post was more to add detail than to disagree...my apologies if it seemed otherwise.

In an earlier post I believe you referenced our system as the "Walsh WCO" (or maybe just WCO) which has a different philosophy of using short and intermediate passes to loosen the defense to set up the run. It relies more heavily on the short passing/screen game to keep the chains moving and to create vertical space for the run. It tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on passing plays.

All systems use play action to some degree, but Shanahan (both Big and Lil Shanny) took play action (disguised as an outside zone run) to an art form.

And I watched every game during the Kubiak era...I dont need to look at highlights. Schaub under threw his deep passes with criminal regularity...even though AJ had created enough separation to take it to the house. Its one of the big reasons AJ does not have the TD numbers of other HOF worthy receivers.
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WCO
 
The wco was implemented to out flank and beat the bears 46 defense. It served its purpose well.



It Always amazes me how lazy qb's are with play fakes (run.) Just a matter of effort there.
 
Texian said:
A WCO QB has to be much more accurate than Richardson's 54% completion %. Levis doesn't move that well and throw on the run. He also has a lot of mechanical and decision making issues.
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I was referring to big arm guys. They like arm talent too, but I agree it is a more precision ,placement offense. Its one of the reason Reid went and got Mahomes and Shanny went and got Lance.
 
badboy said:
Thanks for posting. I have tried to find a video without success. This is example of someone throwing crap at the wall and hoping no one finds out it is 💩. When I watched the game, I thought it was targeting. I did think it was a desperation play but admired the quarterback for at least trying to score. If it had been a touchdown Stroud would still be getting accolades. As with QBs getting hit, WRs have this occur sometimes. In NFL, every player get paid for it.
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You know how this board is. Dudes make up stuff and pass it off for fact and hate to admit when they're wrong. Someone is trying to compare Young v Murray. The only thing they have in common are their both black and the same size. Young has almost 10 inch hands also.
 
powda said:
The wco was implemented to out flank and beat the bears 46 defense. It served its purpose well.



It Always amazes me how lazy qb's are with play fakes (run.) Just a matter of effort there.
Click to expand...
I think we may have been spoiled bc Schaubs play fake was sooooo good. Pretty much *at least* once a game my eye (and the cameraman) were following Foster instead of the bootleg.

On another note, it's not time to take a RB, but I would be VERY excited to see Bijan Robinson and Pierce together in the zone scheme. We would own the 4th quarter. I also spent 8 years (and a whole lot of money) at UT, so I'm biased.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
 
frethack said:
There are things to like about Levis, but I'd be pretty upset if the Texans took him high...even at 12.

The kid has a super compact release, has ideal size, and played in a pro style system. His 2021 was impressive. Playing hurt in 2022 may be the reason for his step back, but who really knows. If he fell and we moved into the high 20s for him, I could be good with that.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
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He didn't play in a pro system, nobody does in college and its irrevelant.
 
frethack said:
You are absolutely correct about the Shanahan Offense, with the added caveats that it tends to be run heavy and that the zone run is used to set up the pass. Philosophically, the Shanahan offense is looking to create horizontal space for the RB and for chunk yardage off play action. It also tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on run plays. Its really not even the WCO except in how the plays are called...and even that has probably evolved. And I completely agree that 54% completion does not cut it. My post was more to add detail than to disagree...my apologies if it seemed otherwise.

In an earlier post I believe you referenced our system as the "Walsh WCO" (or maybe just WCO) which has a different philosophy of using short and intermediate passes to loosen the defense to set up the run. It relies more heavily on the short passing/screen game to keep the chains moving and to create vertical space for the run. It tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on passing plays.

All systems use play action to some degree, but Shanahan (both Big and Lil Shanny) took play action (disguised as an outside zone run) to an art form.

And I watched every game during the Kubiak era...I dont need to look at highlights. Schaub under threw his deep passes with criminal regularity...even though AJ had created enough separation to take it to the house. Its one of the big reasons AJ does not have the TD numbers of other HOF worthy receivers.
Click to expand...
Lil Shanny offense is different from his daddy and Kubes. All are different from McVeigh, Andy, Holmgren and even the original. Bill Walsh said himself that Montana offense was different from Young offense. McNabb offense was different from Mahomes offense which is different from Favre offense. Some of the same concepts, but they alter them on the talent. That's what great offensive minds do.. I'm pretty certain that if Trey Lance ever gets healthy and show he can play, the offense will look more like Vick offense in Philly or similar to the Mahomes offense in KC.
 
Just an anecdote, but shows which way the wind is blowing:

On Caesar's sportsbook, the futures bet showing the odds of the 1st overall pick keep moving in favor of Young. But of note, Stroud is dropping back quite hard. He was +230 odds of the top pick for a long time, but now is +550 and behind Richardson, who up from +600 to +450. This has happened over the last 2 days, About six weeks ago, Richardson was +8000... He's moving up fast, but Young keep moving more as the clear favorite also... Carter used to be +600 but has fallen back to +3500 currently.


Bryce Young
-175
Anthony Richardson
+450
CJ Stroud
+550
Will Anderson
+750
Will Levis
+1200
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
Wow. Big like Newton and almost as fast as Lamar Jackson, who didn't run at the combine but ran 4.34 on his Pro Day, which tends to tick in favor of their guy. Amazing athlete this guy is.
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In what would have technically been the second-best 40-yard dash time of all time for a QB, Lamar Jackson's 4.34-second 40-yard dash was unofficial because it took place at Louisville's “Speed Day.” Jackson never ran the 40 at the Combine or a pro day.
***
Before long LJ will have run a 4.24 at his pro day.
 
Texian said:
But he still panicked under pressure and cost them the game. He did the same thing in the Michigan game. This has been the knock on him and he showed everybody why. Now imagine how bad it could be if Stroud is not playing behind a 5-Star OL and not playing with world-class WRs where he often has < 3 seconds to throw.
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No.. he did not panic. He saw his oline not containing the blitz and he retreated and off balance launched. He had two other choices: eat the ball or launch to sideline. He chose to throw endzone. As quickly as he released, I assume that is what Stroud has been coached to do.
 
Texian said:
Yes but Richardson and Levis don’t really fit the WCO profile. WCO has preference of accuracy over a big arm.
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As i posted earlier radio analysts says Levis does fit Slowik's O behind only Young. I think Hooker does but have heard only one agree as few discuss him.
 
TexanBorn51 said:
WestCoastOffense Bill Walsh liked play action schemes. Allow me to post #1988 again this stat.
His Levis completion percentage last season (65.4) was actually higher than Young’s (64.5). His play-action passing maybe fit well with a team productive in running the ball (Pierce). Texans can and should improve the offensive line and do more play action. He completed 68.5% of attempts with 9.7 air yards per attempt in play-action situations last season.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Levis ended up with Houston.
 
Re. Young, I was asked how much weight could he gain in 24 hours for the Combine weigh in. I have had athletes gain ~5-6 pounds (wanted or not) overnight after eating a large high sodium meal like hamburgers and French fries. It would likely affect some of his performance...........but that variable was entirely removed by Young opting to forego Combine testing.
 
frethack said:
I think we may have been spoiled bc Schaubs play fake was sooooo good. Pretty much *at least* once a game my eye (and the cameraman) were following Foster instead of the bootleg.

On another note, it's not time to take a RB, but I would be VERY excited to see Bijan Robinson and Pierce together in the zone scheme. We would own the 4th quarter. I also spent 8 years (and a whole lot of money) at UT, so I'm biased.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
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8 years? Did you graduate or just give out or give up? 🤔 😉

Bijan is one of the most complete and ready to go in this draft. He has it all size, speed, skills and heart. 3 down guy who can align at WR with no hesitation. I would be okay with him at 12 but expect Johnston to be targeted there.

BTW i didn't go to UT.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1632142903123271681
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My focus was on my guy Hyatt and that was disappointing. He seemed to be trying hard to build speed and get down field. I don't understand why he did not catch that ball. This is where 2nd rounders need to excel and on that pass he did not.

Levis does have a cannon and that is not what I am concerned about with him. If there was a corner back or a safety running with Hyatt or the other wide receiver, I would have gotten more out of it. Levis putting it in the basket over defender and WR eyeing the rock into his hands. I don't want any bumping or crowding the WR but running with him with arms/hands up.
 
Ahh the underwear Olympics where players rise and fall because of what they do in a pair of underwear. Richardson will be great jumping around like a kangaroo. Can he hit the broad side of a barn? No, but who cares. look at him jump and run.

Balderdash. I hope the Texans aren’t as dumb as to be taken in by a guy that looks good in underwear.

Richardson is a superior athlete but a very raw QB who may never be worth a damn beyond “athlete” and he doesn’t fit the WCO offense very well either. He is totally off my board. He doesn’t fit and he sucks at throwing. He will be gone to the Lions or another team that can be patient and we will be drafting Bryce or CJ. Very little doubt in my mind that it’s one of those two polished pro prospects that can actually spin it with excellent touch and accuracy. You know…like actually throwing the ball.
 
badboy said:
My focus was on my guy Hyatt and that was disappointing. He seemed to be trying hard to build speed and get down field. I don't understand why he did not catch that ball. This is where 2nd rounders need to excel and on that pass he did not.

Levis does have a cannon and that is not what I am concerned about with him. If there was a corner back or a safety running with Hyatt or the other wide receiver, I would have gotten more out of it. Levis putting it in the basket over defender and WR eyeing the rock into his hands. I don't want any bumping or crowding the WR but running with him with arms/hands up.
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I wouldn't let one dropped catch put you off him - look at his actual game catching percentage.
 
badboy said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Levis ended up with Houston.
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It will be interesting how the draft order develops that night. The 3-4 teams need a QB and the Bears probably will trade #1 maybe to a team and keep Fields. If Levis ends with Texans must not give up any round 1 picks and fir shir get a BPA i.e. edge WR TE OL RB etc in the top 12 picks to substantiate such a QB pick vs Young and Stroud probably go earlier. Gotta fill up the needed weapons surrounding a good drafted QB.
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
Just an anecdote, but shows which way the wind is blowing:

On Caesar's sportsbook, the futures bet showing the odds of the 1st overall pick keep moving in favor of Young. But of note, Stroud is dropping back quite hard. He was +230 odds of the top pick for a long time, but now is +550 and behind Richardson, who up from +600 to +450. This has happened over the last 2 days, About six weeks ago, Richardson was +8000... He's moving up fast, but Young keep moving more as the clear favorite also... Carter used to be +600 but has fallen back to +3500 currently.


Bryce Young
-175
Anthony Richardson
+450
CJ Stroud
+550
Will Anderson
+750
Will Levis
+1200
Click to expand...
Combine escalator.
 
Porky said:
Ahh the underwear Olympics where players rise and fall because of what they do in a pair of underwear. Richardson will be great jumping around like a kangaroo. Can he hit the broad side of a barn? No, but who cares. look at him jump and run.

Balderdash. I hope the Texans aren’t as dumb as to be taken in by a guy that looks good in underwear.

Richardson is a superior athlete but a very raw QB who may never be worth a damn beyond “athlete” and he doesn’t fit the WCO offense very well either. He is totally off my board. He doesn’t fit and he sucks at throwing. He will be gone to the Lions or another team that can be patient and we will be drafting Bryce or CJ. Very little doubt in my mind that it’s one of those two polished pro prospects that can actually spin it with excellent touch and accuracy. You know…like actually throwing the ball.
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It could make some bucks as a running back if quarterback does not work out for him.
 
Texansphan said:
I wouldn't let one dropped catch put you off him - look at his actual game catching percentage.
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I have watched hyatt extensively and brought him to the board if I remember correctly. However he looked horrible on that catch. I critique as I see them my guys or not.
 
leebigeztx said:
Lil Shanny offense is different from his daddy and Kubes. All are different from McVeigh, Andy, Holmgren and even the original. Bill Walsh said himself that Montana offense was different from Young offense. McNabb offense was different from Mahomes offense which is different from Favre offense. Some of the same concepts, but they alter them on the talent. That's what great offensive minds do.. I'm pretty certain that if Trey Lance ever gets healthy and show he can play, the offense will look more like Vick offense in Philly or similar to the Mahomes offense in KC.
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This is true...all good coaches build offenses around their players, as you said. But Big Shanny, Kubes, Lil Shanny, and McVeigh have common threads in their systems. Spread the D horizontally with the run to set up play action.

It's like they're speaking dialects of American English, while Walsh, Holmgren, Reid are speaking dialects of British English. And to be fair, Reid and Mahomes may be speaking Australian.





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badboy said:
8 years? Did you graduate or just give out or give up?

Bijan is one of the most complete and ready to go in this draft. He has it all size, speed, skills and heart. 3 down guy who can align at WR with no hesitation. I would be okay with him at 12 but expect Johnston to be targeted there.

BTW i didn't go to UT.
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LOL I graduated AND gave up. After undergrad, I entered a PhD program. Was all but dissertation when my son was born. Decided spending time with him was more important than finishing my dissertation/publications, slogging through a post doc, and moving across country to find tenure. Just called it quits with a Masters.

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Porky said:
Ahh the underwear Olympics where players rise and fall because of what they do in a pair of underwear. Richardson will be great jumping around like a kangaroo. Can he hit the broad side of a barn? No, but who cares. look at him jump and run.

Balderdash. I hope the Texans aren’t as dumb as to be taken in by a guy that looks good in underwear.

Richardson is a superior athlete but a very raw QB who may never be worth a damn beyond “athlete” and he doesn’t fit the WCO offense very well either. He is totally off my board. He doesn’t fit and he sucks at throwing. He will be gone to the Lions or another team that can be patient and we will be drafting Bryce or CJ. Very little doubt in my mind that it’s one of those two polished pro prospects that can actually spin it with excellent touch and accuracy. You know…like actually throwing the ball.
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Delete
 
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