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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Texian said:
Contrary to what you believe, restructuring every contract that can be restructured is NOT clearing up the cap.
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Tell me what clearing the cap looks like to you?

Trading away every viable player that's getting paid to have the most cap space possible? Probably trading them away on the cheap (Some were willing to trade Tunsil for a late 1st/early 2nd.) which was/is pure foolishness. I cant remember if you were in this crowd but I'm thinking you probably were. Saving money over having great players on the team seems to be what you want to see happen.

I'm sure you want to cut or trade everybody that isn't on a rookie deall and sign a bunch of UDFA's to help fill out the 20 or so players on the bottom of the roster. If I was in Cal's shoes and wanted to make as much money as possible then your way would be the definition of success.

I'm not on board with this. Give me the 37 mil in cap space (I've seen this number on many sites, not what was posted here.) Plus the ability to get another 30-35 mil if needed over what your vision is.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me what clearing the cap looks like to you?

Trading away every viable player that's getting paid to have the most cap space possible? Probably trading them away on the cheap (Some were willing to trade Tunsil for a late 1st/early 2nd.) which was/is pure foolishness. I cant remember if you were in this crowd but I'm thinking you probably were. Saving money over having great players on the team seems to be what you want to see happen.

I'm sure you want to cut or trade everybody that isn't on a rookie deall and sign a bunch of UDFA's to help fill out the 20 or so players on the bottom of the roster. If I was in Cal's shoes and wanted to make as much money as possible then your way would be the definition of success.

I'm not on board with this. Give me the 37 mil in cap space (I've seen this number on many sites, not what was posted here.) Plus the ability to get another 30-35 mil if needed over what your vision is.
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Effective cap space after signing all our projected draft picks is in the range of 25-27 mil is my understanding with the ability to create another 35mil or so by extending Tunsil, trading cooks and making a few easy cuts.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me do they have enough cap space to add 3-4 top/mid tier FA's? Do they have the ability to easily create another 30-35 mil in cap space if they need it?

Bottom line is if they hit on whatever QB they choose and draft/FA well they will be contenders in the next 3 yrs. Maybe sooner
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steelbtexan said:
Tell me do they have enough cap space to add 3-4 top/mid tier FA's? Do they have the ability to easily create another 30-35 mil in cap space if they need it?

Bottom line is if they hit on whatever QB they choose and draft/FA well they will be contenders in the next 3 yrs. Maybe sooner
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Agree. Texans have been gradually clawing their way back out of the hole Bill O'Brien dug for them and with 2 firsts in next year's draft as well we have the chance to add another 2 starters on rookie contracts - a better situation than most.
 
I've stated many times as to why Hooker would be my choice. Anyone that watched Cloak-N-Dagger's post (#1764) will see that nice compact delivery with an over the shoulder delivery, that is pretty dang accurate. If you have time, look at the video highlights I posted and watch how those downfield throws spin. I liked his demeanor during the interview and as others have attested....he likes putting in the work. He's got everything the 2024 RD1 QB Class has.....only, the Texans might have an opportunity to get him in RD2.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I've stated many times as to why Hooker would be my choice. Anyone that watched Cloak-N-Dagger's post (#1764) will see that nice compact delivery with an over the shoulder delivery, that is pretty dang accurate. If you have time, look at the video highlights I posted and watch how those downfield throws spin. I liked his demeanor during the interview and as others have attested....he likes putting in the work. He's got everything the 2024 RD1 QB Class has.....only, the Texans might have an opportunity to get him in RD2.
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He’ll be cashing social security checks by the time his rookie contract is over sadly
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me who this top 5 LT is and we can have a discussion.

Personally I'm happy not having to worry about protecting a young QB's blindside for the next 4-5 yrs. I will admit I'm trying to avoid what happened with DB. Give me the known over the unknown since there's plenty of cap space available. Does this train of thought make me a koolaid drinker?
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You're a proficient draftnik and you know the top 3 LT who will go in the 1st RD. If we made a list of these names, our list would be the same.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me do they have enough cap space to add 3-4 top/mid tier FA's? Do they have the ability to easily create another 30-35 mil in cap space if they need it?

Bottom line is if they hit on whatever QB they choose and draft/FA well they will be contenders in the next 3 yrs. Maybe sooner
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Tell me, do they have a competent money manager? They do not.

Did I Must Restructure It, restructure many contracts before he traded them or cut them? Yes he did. That creates dead money and is a waste of salary cap capital.

I thoroughly believe that by next year or 2025 the Texans will be back in salary cap hell with not much to show for it.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
I've stated many times as to why Hooker would be my choice. Anyone that watched Cloak-N-Dagger's post (#1764) will see that nice compact delivery with an over the shoulder delivery, that is pretty dang accurate. If you have time, look at the video highlights I posted and watch how those downfield throws spin. I liked his demeanor during the interview and as others have attested....he likes putting in the work. He's got everything the 2024 RD1 QB Class has.....only, the Texans might have an opportunity to get him in RD2.
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I’ll pass on Hooker. I want a strong possible franchise quarterback. That’s either Stroud, Young and Levis
 
Texansballer74 said:
I’ll pass on Hooker. I want a strong possible franchise quarterback. That’s either Stroud, Young and Levis
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Levis has reading defenses as an issue and/or having too much confidence in his arm. Young is still too small in my book. I could be wrong, but wouldn't roll the RD1-02 pick to find out. Stroud and Hooker are pretty much the same physically, but Hooker's quick, compact, over the shoulder, and accurate release is what makes him better in my book.....not to mention, I can get him late in RD1 or early RD2.
 
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Reviewing the first QB taken in the draft over the last 20 years:

  • 2003: (1) Carson Palmer (QB), Cincinnati Bengals
  • 2004: (1) Eli Manning (QB), San Diego Chargers (traded to New York Giants)
  • 2005: (1) Alex Smith (QB), San Francisco 49ers
  • 2006: (3) Vince Young (QB), Tennessee Titans
  • 2007: (1) JaMarcus Russell (QB), Oakland Raiders
  • 2008: (3) Matt Ryan (QB), Atlanta Falcons
  • 2009: (1) Matthew Stafford (QB), Detroit Lions
  • 2010: (1) Sam Bradford (QB), St. Louis Rams
  • 2011: (1) Cam Newton (QB), Carolina Panthers
  • 2012: (1) Andrew Luck (QB), Indianapolis Colts
  • 2013: (16) E.J. Manuel (QB), Buffalo Bills
  • 2014: (3) Blake Bortles (QB), Jacksonville Jaguars
  • 2015: (1) Jameis Winston (QB), Tampa Bay Buccaneers
  • 2016: (1) Jared Goff (QB), Los Angeles Rams
  • 2017: (2) Mitchell Trubisky (QB), Chicago Bears
  • 2018: (1) Baker Mayfield (QB), Cleveland Browns
  • 2019: (1) Kyler Murray (QB), Arizona Cardinals
  • 2020: (1) Joe Burrow (QB), Cincinnati Bengals
  • 2021: (1) Trevor Lawrence (QB), Jacksonville Jaguars
  • 2022: (20) Kenny Pickett (QB), Pittsburgh Steelers
Feel free to disagree, but I separated the QBs into the following categories. Elites are guys who elevate your team. Decent Starters are guys who are good enough to be starters in the league, but are not upper echelon. Busts are guys who lost their starting job after a few years.:

Elite (8): Palmer, Manning, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Luck, Borrow, Lawrence
Decent Starter (6): Smith, Bradford, Winston, Goff, Murray, Pickett
Bust (6): Young, Russell, Manuel, Bortles, Trubisky, Mayfield

Over the last 20 years, the first QB taken has a 40% chance of being Elite, a 30% chance of being a Decent Starter, and a 30% chance of being a Bust. From everything I'm reading, it appears the Texans will likely use pick #2 on a QB. If they get to select the first QB of the draft, there's a 70% chance that he will be at least a solid player.
 
BullRushTX said:
Reviewing the first QB taken in the draft over the last 20 years:

  • 2003: (1) Carson Palmer (QB), Cincinnati Bengals
  • 2004: (1) Eli Manning (QB), San Diego Chargers (traded to New York Giants)
  • 2005: (1) Alex Smith (QB), San Francisco 49ers
  • 2006: (3) Vince Young (QB), Tennessee Titans
  • 2007: (1) JaMarcus Russell (QB), Oakland Raiders
  • 2008: (3) Matt Ryan (QB), Atlanta Falcons
  • 2009: (1) Matthew Stafford (QB), Detroit Lions
  • 2010: (1) Sam Bradford (QB), St. Louis Rams
  • 2011: (1) Cam Newton (QB), Carolina Panthers
  • 2012: (1) Andrew Luck (QB), Indianapolis Colts
  • 2013: (16) E.J. Manuel (QB), Buffalo Bills
  • 2014: (3) Blake Bortles (QB), Jacksonville Jaguars
  • 2015: (1) Jameis Winston (QB), Tampa Bay Buccaneers
  • 2016: (1) Jared Goff (QB), Los Angeles Rams
  • 2017: (2) Mitchell Trubisky (QB), Chicago Bears
  • 2018: (1) Baker Mayfield (QB), Cleveland Browns
  • 2019: (1) Kyler Murray (QB), Arizona Cardinals
  • 2020: (1) Joe Burrow (QB), Cincinnati Bengals
  • 2021: (1) Trevor Lawrence (QB), Jacksonville Jaguars
  • 2022: (20) Kenny Pickett (QB), Pittsburgh Steelers
Feel free to disagree, but I separated the QBs into the following categories. Elites are guys who elevate your team. Decent Starters are guys who are good enough to be starters in the league, but are not upper echelon. Busts are guys who lost their starting job after a few years.:

Elite (8): Palmer, Manning, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Luck, Borrow, Lawrence
Decent Starter (6): Smith, Bradford, Winston, Goff, Murray, Pickett
Bust (6): Young, Russell, Manuel, Bortles, Trubisky, Mayfield

Over the last 20 years, the first QB taken has a 40% chance of being Elite, a 30% chance of being a Decent Starter, and a 30% chance of being a Bust. From everything I'm reading, it appears the Texans will likely use pick #2 on a QB. If they get to select the first QB of the draft, there's a 70% chance that he will be at least a solid player.
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Agree with your slotting except for Lawrence and Pickett.

Lawrence had an awful rookie season and a good second season. Need to see some consistency before he is considered Elite.

Pickett has only started 12 games and had more INTs than TDs. He's an Incomplete at this point in his career.

Also, the 2013-2018 picks should have cost some people their jobs. That is a horrible run of first QB's drafted.
 
Texian said:
Tell me, do they have a competent money manager? They do not.

Did I Must Restructure It, restructure many contracts before he traded them or cut them? Yes he did. That creates dead money and is a waste of salary cap capital.

I thoroughly believe that by next year or 2025 the Texans will be back in salary cap hell with not much to show for it.
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Let's address this next off-season.

I wouldn't blame Caserio if he did put them in cap hell since according to you and your probably right, his job is on the line.

More short sightedness from Cal if true.
 
Texian said:
You're a proficient draftnik and you know the top 3 LT who will go in the 1st RD. If we made a list of these names, our list would be the same.
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Johnson is the only LT in this draft that has an outside chance at becoming a top 3 LT. IMHO

This isn't a good class. IMHO
 
Here's another mock draft. I have draft for team needs and positional value at max and randomness at 0 for this one. I drafted this one as how I imagine the Texans would draft. The McIntosh pick was BPA at that slot who fit the Texans scheme.
To show the differences in settings, the second one had all three categories maxed out. It was just ridiculous. pff_mock_results (18).pngpff_mock_results (17).png
 
sandman said:
Agree with your slotting except for Lawrence and Pickett.

Lawrence had an awful rookie season and a good second season. Need to see some consistency before he is considered Elite.

Pickett has only started 12 games and had more INTs than TDs. He's an Incomplete at this point in his career.

Also, the 2013-2018 picks should have cost some people their jobs. That is a horrible run of first QB's drafted.
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Pickett and Lawrence are still too early to tell, but Pickett had an okay rookie season and Lawrence looks like he's turning the corner. Hard to say how they'll look in another two years.

2013 was an awful draft for QBs. The only one who eventually had a good season was Geno Smith. 2022 is not looking much better, but it's too early to tell. It doesn't bode well that Pickett was the only QB picked in the top 70 and Brock Purdy (Mr. Irrelevant) had the best season.
 
DocBar said:
Here's another mock draft. I have draft for team needs and positional value at max and randomness at 0 for this one. I drafted this one as how I imagine the Texans would draft. The McIntosh pick was BPA at that slot who fit the Texans scheme.
To show the differences in settings, the second one had all three categories maxed out. It was just ridiculous. View attachment 11673View attachment 11674
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Levis might end up being a great QB, but he gives me Bortles/Wentz/Flacco vibes
 
BullRushTX said:
Levis might end up being a great QB, but he gives me Bortles/Wentz/Flacco vibes
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All of the QBs in this class have warts. BY has such a frail frame, Stroud has the OSU stigma, Levis has had an up and down college career, Richardson has very limited starting experience, Hooker has age and injury concerns. I've got mocks drafting virtually every QB in the draft.
 
Any opinions/consensus here about Caserio's approach to the draft.

Trade up to gain 'prime' choices or trades down for more picks?

Quality over quantity? Gambles on potential hoping to find gems.?

What do you think/prefer?

Personally I choose quality.

:coffee:
 
These PFF mock drafts always look completely unrealistic to me, but here's what I came up with. I don't think Hyatt and Mauch slip to the 3rd, Sanders to the 4th, or Whyle to the 6th:

Screenshot (218).png
 
cuppacoffee said:
Any opinions/consensus here about Caserio's approach to the draft.

Trade up to gain 'prime' choices or trades down for more picks?

Quality over quantity? Gambles on potential hoping to find gems.?

What do you think/prefer?

Personally I choose quality.

:coffee:
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It depends on who's available when they're picking. I think #12 could be prime real estate to trade down to get more picks. For instance, let's say they take a QB at #2 and another QB slips in the draft. You might be able to get a 1st and 2nd from a team like the Commanders.

I also wouldn't mind them packaging picks to trade back into the 2nd for the right guy. Gambles are great for rounds 4-7. In rounds 1-3, I want them to collect the best quality guys at positions of need.
 
steelbtexan said:
Johnson is the only LT in this draft that has an outside chance at becoming a top 3 LT. IMHO

This isn't a good class. IMHO
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Broderick Jones and Anton Harrison are likely 1st RD picks. Broderick Jones looks to be better than Duane Brown. Jones was the #1 LT in the 2020 recruiting class. Brown was a 3 star recruit.:


 
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steelbtexan said:
Let's address this next off-season.

I wouldn't blame Caserio if he did put them in cap hell since according to you and your probably right, his job is on the line.

More short sightedness from Cal if true.
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I doubt the Texans will be in cap hell any time soon. Cooks is as good as gone, as will be several others.
 
BullRushTX said:
These PFF mock drafts always look completely unrealistic to me, but here's what I came up with. I don't think Hyatt and Mauch slip to the 3rd, Sanders to the 4th, or Whyle to the 6th:

View attachment 11676
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Depends on how you have your settings. Play around with them some. I usually keep randomness at 0 and team needs highest. I move the player ranking one around the most.
 
For a change, I'm with SteelB. I've had a change of heart in regard to our LT. I'd sign both tackles to long-term deals. You can't replace Tunsil. I still think he's merely average at Run blocking and at times seems lackadaisical, but he's easily top 3 at pass blocking. With a new rookie high draft pick at QB, trading Tunsil in place of a rookie seems very foolish to me.

Now, if you tell me I can get two number 1 picks and a solid player as well...I'm listening. I don't think he will procure that, and I'm keeping him at LT for years as he is still in his prime and tackles can easily play until their mid 30's.

There are rare times when you can do addition by subtraction, such as giving away a 2nd rounder just to be done with Brock O. when we dumped him to Cleveland...but in general, removing pro-bowl players is non-sensical as long as you can support the contract. In this case...I think the Texans can...so I'm strongly in favor of a long-term extension.
 
Texian said:
Broderick Jones and Anton Harrison are likely 1st RD picks. Broderick Jones looks to be better than Duane Brown. Jones was the #1 LT in the 2020 recruiting class. Brown was a 3 star recruit.:


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Good players

I don't see them as top 3 at their position players and I like Jones. Haven't seen enough of Harrison.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Levis has reading defenses as an issue and/or having too much confidence in his arm. Young is still too small in my book. I could be wrong, but wouldn't roll the RD1-02 pick to find out. Stroud and Hooker are pretty much the same physically, but Hooker's quick, compact, over the shoulder, and accurate release is what makes him better in my book.....not to mention, I can get him late in RD1 or early RD2.
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I also have Hooker more mobile on the move. If Slowik can do his magic here he could did it well with Levis or Hook with the latter being much more accurate.
 

Zierlein finished his grades for combine participants

Some things to notice

1. Has Anderson and Carter as the best prospects then there's a decent drop off down to the next 8 players. Then there's another steep drop off after 10
2. Highest graded WR is Jalin Hyatt followed by Josh Downs and Johnston
3. QB rankings are Young-Stroud-Richardson-Levis-Hooker with a large drop off from Young to Stroud
4. Seems to think the edge class is pretty deep
 
DocBar said:
Here's another mock draft. I have draft for team needs and positional value at max and randomness at 0 for this one. I drafted this one as how I imagine the Texans would draft. The McIntosh pick was BPA at that slot who fit the Texans scheme.
To show the differences in settings, the second one had all three categories maxed out. It was just ridiculous. View attachment 11673View attachment 11674
Click to expand...
I'd be okay with your first three but if Addison, Hyatt, Battle, Musgrave or specifically Drew Sanders falls where you have them, you become my new primary source for draft evaluation.
 
Out of all the QB’s Hooker is my favorite, and I would definitely like him at top of 2nd. Early on lots of mocks had him going in third and I was getting really excited about that but unfortunately he seems to be rising. Absolutely beautiful effortless throwing. Had no idea he was 24 as someone above posted about his age, I missed that but 24 is pretty young and may actually be better with a rookie contract to have a slightly more age related mature growth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
badboy said:
I'd be okay with your first three but if Addison, Hyatt, Battle, Musgrave or specifically Drew Sanders falls where you have them, you become my new primary source for draft evaluation.
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The one you're referencing I had draft for PFF ranking, draft for team needs and randomness all maxed out. It was ridiculous! I posted it just to show how silly it can get.
 
steelbtexan said:
Trading up a couple of picks for Hooker should be an option. it gives you the 5th yr option.
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You only get that with a first rounder, right? Do you think he is worth what it would take to get a third pick in the first round? Feels a bit high for him.
 
sandman said:
You only get that with a first rounder, right? Do you think he is worth what it would take to get a third pick in the first round? Feels a bit high for him.
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If you think he's the guy, then it's worth trading up for the 5th yr option.

He's my favorite QB in this draft, but I wouldn't trade up for him. Of course I wouldn't draft a QB before 4-103 in this draft.
 
Rumors of Justin Fields being traded and the Bears taking Young are starting to appear. So far we've seen Indy and Chicago as the 2 top popular places for him to end up. Hope a trade happens so we don't end up with him. But that's based on personal choice from watching him play. He has all his 2021 issues still and what was the AC joint injury problem? No thanks to injury issues

If it's Carter and Young and we are on the clock we need to grab Carter. Otherwise take Stroud who like Young has some issues with accuracy in a dirty pocket. Young has overall issues and Stroud has deep issues with decent short and mid range passing.
 
sandman said:
You only get that with a first rounder, right? Do you think he is worth what it would take to get a third pick in the first round? Feels a bit high for him.
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As more vet QBs are settled in such as Geno Smith and if Lamar Jackson is traded, we will have much clearer view of draft. I'm hearing Gbay now thinks Rodgers remains.
 
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