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Which QB should the Texans consider signing/trading for?

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
PFF disagrees, and it's not even close:

Overall, their offensive line finished the season on the lower end of PFF’s rankings. Here is where all 32 teams stand going into the playoffs.

1. Philadelphia Eagles
2. Baltimore Ravens
3. Green Bay Packers
4. Kansas City Chiefs
5. Atlanta Falcons
6. Cleveland Browns
7. San Francisco 49ers
8. Detroit Lions
9. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
10. Las Vegas Raiders
11. New England Patriots
12. Dallas Cowboys
13. Minnesota Vikings
14. Chicago Bears
15. Carolina Panthers
16. Pittsburgh Steelers
17. Los Angeles Chargers
18. Indianapolis Colts
19. Jacksonville Jaguars
20. Washington Commanders
21. Denver Broncos
22. Miami Dolphins
23. Buffalo Bills
24. Arizona Cardinals
25. Los Angeles Rams
26. Houston Texans
27. Seattle Seahawks
28. Cincinnati Bengals
29. New Orleans Saints
30. New York Giants
31. New York Jets
32. Tennessee Titans

Penei Sewell is not an average player at best. WTF? He just made the Pro Bowl and only gave up 2 sacks all year and anchored a line where Jamaal Williams ran for a league high 17 TDs. Not saying it was all Sewell, but he was the staple of the line.
I stand corrected based of pff. Sewell is doing his job and better than as a rookie. I admit that I didn't watch him much this year as much as I did last year. Jamaal ran for a gang of tds which is very important, he was at 4 ypc though which is avg. TDs matter though. Chase when healthy is a different animal compared to Sewell. There is always more than 1 way to build a team no matter where you start. The Bengals have been dumping resources into the oline, but it doesn't seem to matter. I mean Jonah Williams was a high pick and they spent money on Collins as well as the other picks and yet Burrow has played at a high level despite getting sacked alot. Some are on Burrow and some was on the o-line especially against KC in the afccg.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Bryce young may be the second coming of Montana/Brady and if he’s the pick I’ll be ok with it.
I just think the dude is too small! I’ll be watching every game waiting for some mean arse LBer to fold him up like a lawn chair! I know, it can happen to any QB…. I just think he’s too small. But whatever.
Me personally, I’d wait on the QB. Load this roster with talent then get your guy.
So when would that be?
 
Can you elaborate on what this term means to you? Like a definition.
I would definite it as a broad and super-majority opinion from experts that Player X is the top player at his position in a particular draft class.

Then if/when that is determined, is he still a good/great draft pick at his position by historical standards.

Merriam-Webster definition of consensus:

1 a: general agreement : UNANIMITY
the consensus of their opinion, based on reports … from the border—John Hersey
b: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned
the consensus was to go ahead
2: group solidarity in sentiment and belief
 
I would definite it as a broad and super-majority opinion from experts that Player X is the top player at his position in a particular draft class.

Then if/when that is determined, is he still a good/great draft pick at his position by historical standards.

Merriam-Webster definition of consensus:

1 a: general agreement : UNANIMITY
the consensus of their opinion, based on reports … from the border—John Hersey
b: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned
the consensus was to go ahead
2: group solidarity in sentiment and belief
And really, that's all I was saying: is it wise to take QB at #2 when there is no consensus QB, especially since you are likely locked-in for 3 years? If there is a consensus, of course you have to do it. Sure it could fail, but if the consensus is making a similar evaluation than you are, chances are your evaluation is validated. That's all I was saying, and I fail to see how this type of opinion is controversial, even if you don't agree with it.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
And really, that's all I was saying: is it wise to take QB at #2 when there is no consensus QB, especially since you are likely locked-in for 3 years? If there is a consensus, of course you have to do it. Sure it could fail, but if the consensus is making a similar evaluation than you are, chances are your evaluation is validated. That's all I was saying, and I fail to see how this type of opinion is controversial, even if you don't agree with it.
When are we going to learn the Texans doesn’t share our ideas, evaluations and/or opinions. They have not followed our draft boards on this forum. What you think is or isn’t consensus, you can best believe they think totally opposite.
 
When are we going to learn the Texans doesn’t share our ideas, evaluations and/or opinions. They have not followed our draft boards on this forum. What you think is or isn’t consensus, you can best believe they think totally opposite.
It's not what I think, it's what out there. Example: Mel Kiper has Will Levis as his top rated QB. Love or hate Kiper, he one of the foremost NFL draft pundit around.

Others have C.J. Stroud ranked #1, while the probably the majority have Young ranked as the top QB. But even with that, many people are concerned about his ultimate upside because of certain limitations he will likely experience at the pro level, despite the many good attributes he also possesses. I'm not making this up or providing my opinion, it's just what I'm reading from credible source.

Either way, there is no consensus pick this year. Doesn't mean you don't take a QB; doesn't even mean you don't take a QB at #2. It just means the risk profile is elevated and if you miss, you team is set back 3 years. So, it's something management should think hard about even though QB is a position of need.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I have made no such claim. I have said that given there is no consensus top pick, the risk of a high lottery QB is elevated this year. I did not say Stroud or Young will bust, because nobody knows - but they do have flaws which make them a bust or 'mid' risk. I said risk is elevated and you can clearly see this by listening to the pundits and podcasts out there, in which I listen to many.

If there is a Trevor Lawrence or Luck or Manning in this draft please point this out. This comment SHOULD NOT be construed as saying we shouldn't take a QB, because I think we should. About who/when/where. If that is high lottery, we better get this right or we'll be the Browns or Jets - in QB albatross that will be hard to rid of for 3 years.
The Texans are trying to tell you something?

 

Texansphan

Football connoisseur

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When are we going to learn the Texans doesn’t share our ideas, evaluations and/or opinions. They have not followed our draft boards on this forum. What you think is or isn’t consensus, you can best believe they think totally opposite.
When are they going to become a winning org is the question that should be asked.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
They need to draft talented but troubled guys later in the draft.

That's the way the Chiefs/ 49ers etc.... Did it. It.

Not Texans Worthy needs to be a thing of the past. Never should've been to begin with.
No arguments out of me on that one. There are always high skilled level athletes later in the draft. They did try that with Montegomery and them dudes and it failed, they never tried again.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
They need to draft talented but troubled guys later in the draft.

That's the way the Chiefs/ 49ers etc.... Did it. It.

Not Texans Worthy needs to be a thing of the past. Never should've been to begin with.
who did the 49ers draft late that was troublesome? I know Aldon Smith was on a HOF path, but couldn't get out of his own way.He was drafted 6th I believe.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
They need to draft talented but troubled guys later in the draft.

That's the way the Chiefs/ 49ers etc.... Did it. It.

Not Texans Worthy needs to be a thing of the past. Never should've been to begin with.
There is less than a 30% chance that a player drafted in Round 4 or later makes it to the end of their first contract. So the risk is already baked in regardless of being Texans worthy or not. And if we point to higher round talent but went in later rounds because of trouble, many of those guys have a hard time getting out of their own way. We can talk the exception all day long, because they are the exception.

I'm not saying their strategy is correct, but after the fallout from Watson's situation (and he was one of the so-called choir boys) along Ryans high accountability culture he wants to instill, I doubt they ever again take a flyer on a troubled talent again.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There is less than a 30% chance that a player drafted in Round 4 or later makes it to the end of their first contract. So the risk is already baked in regardless of being Texans worthy or not. And if we point to higher round talent but went in later rounds because of trouble, many of those guys have a hard time getting out of their own way. We can talk the exception all day long, because they are the exception.

I'm not saying their strategy is correct, but after the fallout from Watson's situation (and he was one of the so-called choir boys) along Ryans high accountability culture he wants to instill, I doubt they ever again take a flyer on a troubled talent again.
Agreed

The Chiefs just won a SB using this philosophy.

Until the Texans start using this philosophy they will always be behind the 8 ball.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Kelce/Frank Clark off of the top of my head.

Toney, there are a few.
None of these guys were "talented but troubled" guys found later in the draft.

Travis Kelce was a Day 2 pick in 2013 (#63, pick 3.1) that failed a drug test after his sophomore year... for smoking pot.

Frank Clark was a Day 2 pick in 2015 (#63, pick 2.31) by Seattle. They gave up a first round pick in a trade in 2019 to get him after he had some really good seasons, so Seattle took that risk for his assault charges from his senior year at Michigan and turned him into a first round pick.

Kadarius Toney was a Day 1 pick in 2021 (#20, pick 1.20) by NYG. They got him in a mid-season trade this year and he averaged 2 receptions a game. Other than still being a potential first round bust, there is nothing I could find about his "troubles".
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Kadarius Toney was a Day 1 pick in 2021 (#20, pick 1.20) by NYG. They got him in a mid-season trade this year and he averaged 2 receptions a game. Other than still being a potential first round bust, there is nothing I could find about his "troubles".
I think Toney's football character has been called into to question (study habits, not prioritizing football) when in NY. Nothing illegal that I'm aware of.

Tyreek Hill assaulted his pregnant girlfriend while at Oklahoma State and was kicked of the team. @steelbtexan has bemoaned the fact that the Texans passed on him. The Chiefs took him in the 5th round. Later, Hill got into (and out of) trouble with assaulting the same woman and his child. Because Hill is a fantastic player, that's OK in his eyes (and in the eyes of at least a couple of NFL teams). The Texans are not one of the teams. Of course, @steelbtexan had a much tougher standard when judging Watson. I'm wondering where the double standard comes from? What round the player is taken in the draft?
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
I think Toney's football character has been called into to question (study habits, not prioritizing football) when in NY. Nothing illegal that I'm aware of.
Yes. Definitely not a troubled player coming out of college that a team took a risk on in a later round. More of a classic first round bust.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
None of these guys were "talented but troubled" guys found later in the draft.

Travis Kelce was a Day 2 pick in 2013 (#63, pick 3.1) that failed a drug test after his sophomore year... for smoking pot.

Frank Clark was a Day 2 pick in 2015 (#63, pick 2.31) by Seattle. They gave up a first round pick in a trade in 2019 to get him after he had some really good seasons, so Seattle took that risk for his assault charges from his senior year at Michigan and turned him into a first round pick.

Kadarius Toney was a Day 1 pick in 2021 (#20, pick 1.20) by NYG. They got him in a mid-season trade this year and he averaged 2 receptions a game. Other than still being a potential first round bust, there is nothing I could find about his "troubles".
The point is that these guys were off of the Texans draft board because they were deemed Not Texans Worthy
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
The point is that these guys were off of the Texans draft board because they were deemed Not Texans Worthy
I think the point was that KC was following a model that created success for them, except they weren't.

The Texans had two draft picks in 2013 before Kelce was selected, one of which was DHop. Considering Kelce was the 5th TE taken overall in the draft, it would seem several teams did not have him at the top of his position and it wasn't for smoking pot at 20. He had one good year at Cincy and no one was projecting him to be the pro that he has become, in large part because he got to KC right when Andy Reid did and has had 5-6 seasons with Mahomes, so that is a bit of revisionist history.

They had two draft picks in 2015 before Clark was selected, KJ and McKinney. Both were solid picks at the time. Clark was the 10th DE taken overall in the draft. This ended up not being a great draft for DE's because only one of the 10 chosen in the first two rounds is still with their original team and several are out of the league altogether. Additionally, he actually had better stats in Seattle than he has had in KC, so I am not convinced he has been worth the 1st round pick that KC gave up to get him.

The Texans did not have a first round draft pick in 2021, so how were they supposed to select Toney, but chose not to because he was Not Texans Worthy?

Funny side notes: DJ Swearinger was selected before Kelce in the second round. Sam Montgomery was selected later in the same 3rd round and was ironically released for smoking pot. Just in one draft right there they took a swing-and-miss twice on talented but low character guys.
 
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