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Week 8: Big Tits in Houston

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
The AFC South was much stronger during those years.

Texans got some bad luck with Spencer, Mario's turf toe, Clowney because he's from McNair's Alma Mater, Okoye when Kubiak had little to no idea what a good D-lineman prospect should be, Cushing PED, Foster and Tate being injured in the same year, Slaton's concussions, Sam Montgomery and what'shisname snafu, Ed Reed...

The fact is Kubiak left O'Brian with a good core.
Bob even get several comp picks out of Kubiak's players.
That alone should tell you about the state of the team under Kubiak.
Okoye was a Rick Smith pick.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Depends on who you're drafting. If you're drafting a Manning or Elway not so much. In general I agree with you though.
The Lions drafted Stafford & brought in coach after coach after coach, changing staff year after year after year.

I know you're saying Stafford isn't Manning or Elway. I'm saying he should be, but the Lions screwed it up.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The same must applies for Nick Caserio then.
This team should have been an improvement over the one from last year.

Instead, it looks worse, even with Tunsil back and surprising production from DP so far.

I cringe when thinking of the team without Pierce.
like i said he revisionist history is strong with you...especially regarding the Kubiak years...cause you really only want to look at 1 positive aspect...but there's way more garbage than positivity.

I'll go ahead and agree with you somewhat....but why you would expect demonstrably year over year improvement this year from last? Understand you're trying to compare a guy in his 2nd year of a rebuild (really 1st year)...coming off of 1 of the biggest scandals in all of sports............ with a ridiculously bad cap situation.......to a guy who had pretty much a clean slate & nearly a decade to implement the 1st system of the guy who hired him...i won't even put BoB on Smith although technically......

You & a few others say the AFC South was stronger back then, ok I can go with that as a hedge for the lack of early & overall success for Kubes and Smith........... There's still 3 DC's in 8 years.............. There's still the constant big game under performances, there's still draft & FA acquisitions that were god awful Under Smithiak damn near whole drafts were off the roster within 2 years of being drafted. For all the complaining about the size of Rex Burkhead's role in our offense now, under the circumstances he's given this team LIGHT YEARS more in production and leadership as a vet. Certainly better than anything Ahman Green ever gave us in his 2 years here...Or Chris Brown in his 1 year stint as a 3rd down back. Phillip Buchanon, a guy who was expected to be a young core piece in the roster buildout process... disaster. All 3 of those guys were FA acquistions brought in by the Smithiak crew within their 1st few years here expected to play major roles. That's a stark difference in how NC has gone about this roster..

All of this about how Mills has performed thus far and how y'all just KNOW he's not the guy...valid arguments...i.....But Let's compare

Schaub under Kubes: Mills under Kelly/Pep
9 TD's 9 ints..less than 3000 yards 16 TD's 10 ints...less than 3000 yards
15 TD's 10 ints...barely over 3000 yards. 8 TD's, 9 ints.....1500 yards YTD.....

So tell me again how you're just so sure Mills isn't the guy when he compares very favorably to your guy Schaub....

look The Texans under NC have not performed well............. thus far...but what you can see that you couldn't readily see under Smithiak is a young core forming thru the draft with Nico, Stingley, Pitre, Pierce and Green....Hopefully Metchie adds to that. All that being said there was no reason to believe they'd be primed to improve as a team given that over 50% of the roster is still comprised of old vets playing key roles...under a new coach..under a new offensive system.
 

vtech9

All Pro
The Lions drafted Stafford & brought in coach after coach after coach, changing staff year after year after year.

I know you're saying Stafford isn't Manning or Elway. I'm saying he should be, but the Lions screwed it up.
So, are you saying the Texans should get the right coach first, before trying to draft their franchise QB? If so, I agree with you. I just can't trust Pep and Lovie with a new QB.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
So, are you saying the Texans should get the right coach first, before trying to draft their franchise QB? If so, I agree with you. I just can't trust Pep and Lovie with a new QB.
Other than Kubiak, I haven't really liked any of our head coaches. Lovie's fine for now, we need someone to hold down the fort, but if we don't somehow luck into a good HC we'll be wasting all that upcoming draft capital.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
When the coaching is this bad, you can not expect improvement. Do you see how bad Mills has regressed? The defense has gotten worser. The only improvement is the running game
It's both coaching and poor team building.
Nick Caserio is not doing a good job like some people here thought.

He does seem like a file clerk like Texian had said.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
like i said he revisionist history is strong with you...especially regarding the Kubiak years...cause you really only want to look at 1 positive aspect...but there's way more garbage than positivity.

I'll go ahead and agree with you somewhat....but why you would expect demonstrably year over year improvement this year from last? Understand you're trying to compare a guy in his 2nd year of a rebuild (really 1st year)...coming off of 1 of the biggest scandals in all of sports............ with a ridiculously bad cap situation.......to a guy who had pretty much a clean slate & nearly a decade to implement the 1st system of the guy who hired him...i won't even put BoB on Smith although technically......

You & a few others say the AFC South was stronger back then, ok I can go with that as a hedge for the lack of early & overall success for Kubes and Smith........... There's still 3 DC's in 8 years.............. There's still the constant big game under performances, there's still draft & FA acquisitions that were god awful Under Smithiak damn near whole drafts were off the roster within 2 years of being drafted. For all the complaining about the size of Rex Burkhead's role in our offense now, under the circumstances he's given this team LIGHT YEARS more in production and leadership as a vet. Certainly better than anything Ahman Green ever gave us in his 2 years here...Or Chris Brown in his 1 year stint as a 3rd down back. Phillip Buchanon, a guy who was expected to be a young core piece in the roster buildout process... disaster. All 3 of those guys were FA acquistions brought in by the Smithiak crew within their 1st few years here expected to play major roles. That's a stark difference in how NC has gone about this roster..

All of this about how Mills has performed thus far and how y'all just KNOW he's not the guy...valid arguments...i.....But Let's compare

Schaub under Kubes: Mills under Kelly/Pep
9 TD's 9 ints..less than 3000 yards 16 TD's 10 ints...less than 3000 yards
15 TD's 10 ints...barely over 3000 yards. 8 TD's, 9 ints.....1500 yards YTD.....

So tell me again how you're just so sure Mills isn't the guy when he compares very favorably to your guy Schaub....

look The Texans under NC have not performed well............. thus far...but what you can see that you couldn't readily see under Smithiak is a young core forming thru the draft with Nico, Stingley, Pitre, Pierce and Green....Hopefully Metchie adds to that. All that being said there was no reason to believe they'd be primed to improve as a team given that over 50% of the roster is still comprised of old vets playing key roles...under a new coach..under a new offensive system.
Uhm, you're incorrect again.

I had said this in the Kubiak vs OB thread that Kubiak was stuck with Carr for a year, and that team was in serious cap hell just the same with all the garbage left from the previous regime.

I had even laid out all the numbers, from one position to the next.

You're the one with a revisionist view. :)
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
like i said he revisionist history is strong with you...especially regarding the Kubiak years...cause you really only want to look at 1 positive aspect...but there's way more garbage than positivity.

I'll go ahead and agree with you somewhat....but why you would expect demonstrably year over year improvement this year from last? Understand you're trying to compare a guy in his 2nd year of a rebuild (really 1st year)...coming off of 1 of the biggest scandals in all of sports............ with a ridiculously bad cap situation.......to a guy who had pretty much a clean slate & nearly a decade to implement the 1st system of the guy who hired him...i won't even put BoB on Smith although technically......

You & a few others say the AFC South was stronger back then, ok I can go with that as a hedge for the lack of early & overall success for Kubes and Smith........... There's still 3 DC's in 8 years.............. There's still the constant big game under performances, there's still draft & FA acquisitions that were god awful Under Smithiak damn near whole drafts were off the roster within 2 years of being drafted. For all the complaining about the size of Rex Burkhead's role in our offense now, under the circumstances he's given this team LIGHT YEARS more in production and leadership as a vet. Certainly better than anything Ahman Green ever gave us in his 2 years here...Or Chris Brown in his 1 year stint as a 3rd down back. Phillip Buchanon, a guy who was expected to be a young core piece in the roster buildout process... disaster. All 3 of those guys were FA acquistions brought in by the Smithiak crew within their 1st few years here expected to play major roles. That's a stark difference in how NC has gone about this roster..

All of this about how Mills has performed thus far and how y'all just KNOW he's not the guy...valid arguments...i.....But Let's compare

Schaub under Kubes: Mills under Kelly/Pep
9 TD's 9 ints..less than 3000 yards 16 TD's 10 ints...less than 3000 yards
15 TD's 10 ints...barely over 3000 yards. 8 TD's, 9 ints.....1500 yards YTD.....

So tell me again how you're just so sure Mills isn't the guy when he compares very favorably to your guy Schaub....

look The Texans under NC have not performed well............. thus far...but what you can see that you couldn't readily see under Smithiak is a young core forming thru the draft with Nico, Stingley, Pitre, Pierce and Green....Hopefully Metchie adds to that. All that being said there was no reason to believe they'd be primed to improve as a team given that over 50% of the roster is still comprised of old vets playing key roles...under a new coach..under a new offensive system.
Rick Smith is not the GM I ever pimped for.
If you don't remember, I'll just remind you that I had always said Ricky is mediocre.

With a better GM and a less-meddling owner (Carr, Clownery, Ed Reed, to name a few), Kubiak would have been more successful.

Heck, I even said at the time that I wanted the Texans to bring in Schaub as a stop gap, but I did not like giving away two third round picks for him nor the contract, which at that point he's yet to earn.

And then, it was McNair that decided to extend Matt Schaub, which precluded Manning from coming to H-Town and any chance to draft a guy like Wilson.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You get a better coach in here and we will be seeing a much better team.
based on what evidence? You guys always want to place the blame SQUARELY on this 1 thing...or that 1 thing. Just take note..

We've gone from BoB/Easterby being the reason DW4 wanted out.....& if you just get rid of him.....
Then it was Cal being the sole responsible person for DW4 wanting out..b/c he "dissed" DW4 when he didn't consult him on the hiring of NC..now we're gonna lose the best qb we ever had..this franchise just can't do things right for us to turn the corner......
Then it was DW4 himself being a punk and "holding this franchise hostage" and we can't move forward etc..etc..
Then it became Easterby is still here 😱...Why is he here holding us back in Cal's ear......
Then it was Culley was **** hire...we can't build a team with a guy whose never been a coordinator..we're destined to fail.
Then it went back to Easterby being too much of an influence b/c Josh McCown got interviews.....
Now we're back to blaming the incumbent HC...

Dude, y'all don't know whether ya'll are coming or going. It ain't just 1 thing that separates the winning franchises from losing ones..its a **** ton of things & MOST TEAMS HAVE PROBLEMS KEEPING ALL THOSE THINGS GOING THE SAME WAY...which is why you see so much turnover from year to year in terms of winning teams...There are alot of moving parts & replacing 1-2 of them ain't gonna yield dramatically better results.....especially when you've dealt with & continue to deal all that this franchise has been through and was left to deal with.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Rick Smith is not the GM I ever pimped for.
If you don't remember, I'll just remind you that I had always said Ricky is mediocre.

With a better GM and a less-meddling owner (Carr, Clownery, Ed Reed, to name a few), Kubiak would have been more successful.

Heck, I even said at the time that I wanted the Texans to bring in Schaub as a stop gap, but I did not like giving away two third round picks for him nor the contract, which at that point he's yet to earn.

And then, it was McNair that decided to extend Matt Schaub, which precluded Manning from coming to H-Town and any chance to draft a guy like Wilson.
you still like to romanticize all things Kubiak…& like i laid out, there’s more dirt there than you like to acknowledge. How could there not…dude was here for 8 years. But Smith wasnt just bringing in and drafting those players independent of Kubiak. He wasnt just handing out bad extensions by himself. Kubiak definitely had some say. So whether you acknowledge it or not, that makes him culpable on some level for all the crap that went on here those 8 years….which is why he was the 1st to go.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
you still like to romanticize all things Kubiak…& like i laid out, there’s more dirt there than you like to acknowledge. How could there not…dude was here for 8 years. But Smith wasnt just bringing in and drafting those players independent of Kubiak. He wasnt just handing out bad extensions by himself. Kubiak definitely had some say. So whether you acknowledge it or not, that makes him culpable on some level for all the crap that went on here those 8 years….which is why he was the 1st to go.
Sure, he had some says in it.

But the main downfall was Schaub.
Had Manning or Wilson were here, you know it would have been totally different.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Sure, he had some says in it.

But the main downfall was Schaub.
Had Manning or Wilson were here, you know it would have been totally different.
If "if" was a "5th" we'd all be drunk.

You can play that game with a whole lot of things bro. Doesn't make it anymore of a reality.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If "if" was a "5th" we'd all be drunk.

You can play that game with a whole lot of things bro. Doesn't make it anymore of a reality.
Nobody is saying it's a reality.

But the possibilities were there had McNair wasn't in the way.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Nobody is saying it's a reality.

But the possibilities were there had McNair wasn't in the way.
we can talk about the bad moves in hindsight all day…thats what makes us fans…but the truth is noone who isnt inside that building on a regular basis and in those meetings knows the extent of Cal’s “interference”.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You implied that Okoye was a Kubiak pick. I said it was a Rick Smith pick. You said - Yeah we all know that. I said but that isn’t what you said.
We all got confused.
I meant Kubiak was saddled with the Okoye's pick.
At that time, Kubiak was pretty much all offense.
He wouldn't have much experience (if any) evaluating a D-lineman.

So we were both saying the same thing.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
We all got confused.
I meant Kubiak was saddled with the Okoye's pick.
At that time, Kubiak was pretty much all offense.
He wouldn't have much experience (if any) evaluating a D-lineman.

So we were both saying the same thing.
We weren’t saying the same thing. You said it wrong.

Don’t bring me down to your level.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
andy reid is a HOF coach dude. He’s also a guy who has never dealt with a roster as depleted as ours. Think jimmy Johnson with the dolphins.
You don't remember how bad the Eagles were when he took over? They were bad enough to have the #2 pick. You also don't remember how bad the Chiefs were either right? They had the 1st pick in the draft and the team was in shambles. The 1st thing he did was solve the qb situation. He drafted McNabb and traded for Alex Smith. Both places were just as bad as the Texans are, but when you have a guy like Reid who know how to devlop positions, especially on offense, you can spend higher draft picks on other positions.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You implied that Okoye was a Kubiak pick. I said it was a Rick Smith pick. You said - Yeah we all know that. I said but that isn’t what you said.
I can't lie, I thought Okoye was going to be a beast. Saw him at the senior bowl and nobody could block that dude. Not to mention, he was only 20 years old. Mario,Okoye,Demeco,Robinson and Cushing were supposed to be that core on defense. Someone, it didn't happen like planned.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
You don't remember how bad the Eagles were when he took over? They were bad enough to have the #2 pick. You also don't remember how bad the Chiefs were either right? They had the 1st pick in the draft and the team was in shambles. The 1st thing he did was solve the qb situation. He drafted McNabb and traded for Alex Smith. Both places were just as bad as the Texans are, but when you have a guy like Reid who know how to devlop positions, especially on offense, you can spend higher draft picks on other positions.
I call bullshit on the Chiefs being as bad as the Texans are. The chiefs has Eric Berry,Justin Houston, Jamal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dontari Poe,Brandon Albert all on the roster.

I call bullshit on the Eagles being as bad as the Texans are too. The eagles had Duce Staley, Troy Vincent, Brian Dawkins, Hugh Douglas and Jeremiah Trotter.

We have Tunsil and a pouting Cooks. We had one of the worst rosters on paper when Caserio was hired.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You don't remember how bad the Eagles were when he took over? They were bad enough to have the #2 pick. You also don't remember how bad the Chiefs were either right? They had the 1st pick in the draft and the team was in shambles. The 1st thing he did was solve the qb situation. He drafted McNabb and traded for Alex Smith. Both places were just as bad as the Texans are, but when you have a guy like Reid who know how to devlop positions, especially on offense, you can spend higher draft picks on other positions.
So you're saying Caserio should sign Jimmy G, then draft a QB in 2024? I could get on board with this.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
We all got confused.
I meant Kubiak was saddled with the Okoye's pick.
At that time, Kubiak was pretty much all offense.
He wouldn't have much experience (if any) evaluating a D-lineman.

So we were both saying the same thing.
I know what I said.
And don't get personal.
You misinterpreted what I said.
Lol.

Dude - you just said that you said the wrong thing and now you are saying I misinterpreted things?

Lol. Ok. Sure. I am done. You have shown your true colors.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Maybe he meant the Texans should have gone after Russell Wilson or Baker Mayfield.


And thats the funny thing..Russell Wilson is a SB winning franchise qb…he’s got weapons all up and down his roster and on defense…and you could argue that he looks no better than Mills right now who has NONE of that.

baker mayfield has solidified that it wasnt the cleveland brown doldrums that held him back…it was him being trash holding him back. lol:
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
And thats the funny thing..Russell Wilson is a SB winning franchise qb…he’s got weapons all up and down his roster and on defense…and you could argue that he looks no better than Mills right now who has NONE of that.

baker mayfield has solidified that it wasnt the cleveland brown doldrums that held him back…it was him being trash holding him back. lol:
Wilson has been injured.

So is his offensive line.

Who do the Broncos have as weapons that trump the Texans?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Wilson has been injured.

So is his offensive line.

Who do the Broncos have as weapons that trump the Texans?
Sutton, Jeudy and Hamler as a trio best Cooks, Nico and (insert WR here).

Gordon, Murray and the young kid they have best Pierce/burkhead and obungawle as a group.

Wilson with his credentials should be performing way above what he’s been doing…hurt or not.

Surtain Jr..K-jax and simmons are better and more proven than stingley, Pitre and owens.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Sutton, Jeudy and Hamler as a trio best Cooks, Nico and (insert WR here).

Gordon, Murray and the young kid they have best Pierce/burkhead and obungawle as a group.

Wilson with his credentials should be performing way above what he’s been doing…hurt or not.

Surtain Jr..K-jax and simmons are better and more proven than stingley, Pitre and owens.
OK Sutton and Jeudy.
But Hamler hasn't been doing squat.

But they don't have any note-worthy TE.

They might have better known RBs, but the line hasn't been doing their job.
Gordon is averaging 3.5 ypc and Murray 3.7

But sure, overall they have better skill players, but with a bang-up offensive line and an injured QB, you just know the offense is going to struggle.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
OK Sutton and Jeudy.
But Hamler hasn't been doing squat.

But they don't have any note-worthy TE.

They might have better known RBs, but the line hasn't been doing their job.
Gordon is averaging 3.5 ypc and Murray 3.7

But sure, overall they have better skill players, but with a bang-up offensive line and an injured QB, you just know the offense is going to struggle.
1, they’ve been struggling all year before Wilson’s injury.

2, Wilson with his credentials and stature as a qb who can run, he still should be playing better. Certainly at least as good as Derek Carr who also has a terrible o-line.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
1, they’ve been struggling all year before Wilson’s injury.

2, Wilson with his credentials and stature as a qb who can run, he still should be playing better. Certainly at least as good as Derek Carr who also has a terrible o-line.
Wilson was never the same after his finger surgery last year.
He also sustained a leg injury in the first game against the Seahawks.

Time for the body to break down.
 
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