Texansphan
Football connoisseur
The fact the league signed off on the trade let's the Texans off the hook unless it can be proven they were aiding and abetting Watson's little habit and I can't see how or why they would have.
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Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
This all assumes that the NFL is run fair and justly ruling evenly across the board for all 32 teams.
The reality is, it is not a court of law, it is a business they don't need proof, all they need is perception. If the majority of the NFL fan base believes the Texans are guilty.... they will be sacrificed for "the good of the league" in some way.
What that looks like is likely at the whim of Goodell and not a legal precedence.
I do hope I am wrong however.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
As another poster said - how can you punish the Texans (what we know now about their involvement which is none) and still let WFT continue to operate with Dan Snyder as owner? I haven’t heard of any penalties for WFT and the abuses they committed.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Snyder was ordered to turn over the WFT operations to his wife, whose only qualifications submitted are being a former fashion model (no documentation of a college degree)..............how much more severe a punishment can you get! Hey, Hon, I want you to do the following******but make sure you tell no one that the order is coming from me.
Absolutely nothing new here that Watson should worry about. The female detective stating Watson is presumed guilty from the moment an allegation is made hurts any case presented by the prosecution.
She didn’t say he was presumed guilty. She said this is the one case, because of the type of case it is, where he would need to prove his innocence. Also, because there are so many accusers he would absolutely have to prove his innocence.
Watson should worry, because it may be forwarded to authorities the type of contact that was going on between Hardin and the ADA, especially if the ADA obstructed an investigation.
Again, if it is across the board... you can't.
But we aren't dealing with a court of law that has had a precedence set... even that does not guarantee an outcome.
We are dealing with a business and Goodell that has not treated all teams equally nor have they punished players using the same measurement of punishment. Unless the Texans have legal protections they are likely at the mercy and whim of one man.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Buzbee has good reason to now go after the Harris County DA's office regarding a GJ no bill.
The entire GJ proceeding from beginning to end including deliberation was a measly ~5 1/2 hours. GJs typically consider 1 case at a time.........not 10 cases conglomerated. Each case is typically given days not several hours. Each complainant is given the opportunity to appear in person before the GJ.
And, as far as the investigating police officer's testimony and inability to speak to the GJ on each complaint...as it stands in Texas, "probable cause" is a combination of facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable law enforcement officer to believe that a crime had been committed. The officer related such, as he said was supported by his entire team of investigators.
The notion that one cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence is, of course, false. Most criminal convictions are based on circumstantial evidence. It is then a very far reach to believe the DA not to have found "probable cause" in a GJ proceeding for an indictment.
In Texas state, the law does not require direct evidence to prove guilt. Circumstantial evidence alone can be enough. The law generally does not distinguish between direct and circumstantial evidence as far as whether the evidence is admissible in court or how much weight it should be given.
With as many cases were out there, the GJ at the direction of the DA and its half-assed presentation, should not have no billed. The case(s) had enough support legally that it should have been left to a jury trial...........a trial, which as opposed to the DA's directive, had a good chance for conviction.
The Harris County DA's office has been long known for its corrupt practices. This is only one more that they can be proud of.
It would be no surprise to see a TX AG or Federal investigation of this matter including Hardin's potential GJ tampering. I would also not rule out that even these old cases were brought before a new DA and GJ with a different outcome, especially with the presentation of any new criminal complaint(s).
The entire GJ proceeding from beginning to end including deliberation was a measly ~5 1/2 hours. GJs typically consider 1 case at a time.........not 10 cases conglomerated. Each case is typically given days not several hours. Each complainant is given the opportunity to appear in person before the GJ.
And, as far as the investigating police officer's testimony and inability to speak to the GJ on each complaint...as it stands in Texas, "probable cause" is a combination of facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable law enforcement officer to believe that a crime had been committed. The officer related such, as he said was supported by his entire team of investigators.
The notion that one cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence is, of course, false. Most criminal convictions are based on circumstantial evidence. It is then a very far reach to believe the DA not to have found "probable cause" in a GJ proceeding for an indictment.
In Texas state, the law does not require direct evidence to prove guilt. Circumstantial evidence alone can be enough. The law generally does not distinguish between direct and circumstantial evidence as far as whether the evidence is admissible in court or how much weight it should be given.
With as many cases were out there, the GJ at the direction of the DA and its half-assed presentation, should not have no billed. The case(s) had enough support legally that it should have been left to a jury trial...........a trial, which as opposed to the DA's directive, had a good chance for conviction.
The Harris County DA's office has been long known for its corrupt practices. This is only one more that they can be proud of.
It would be no surprise to see a TX AG or Federal investigation of this matter including Hardin's potential GJ tampering. I would also not rule out that even these old cases were brought before a new DA and GJ with a different outcome, especially with the presentation of any new criminal complaint(s).
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i.e. presumed guilty. That’s basically the definition
She didn’t say that
Not even alluded to in the video we’re talking about
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Deshaun Watson, not looking to void $ 230 million contract or trade with Texans, sources say
June 10, 2022 by admin
CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Browns are still looking for new civil suits and allegations, and looking to void his NFL-record, fully guaranteed $ 230 million contract or trade with the Texans, league sources tell Cleveland. com.
The five-year deal – and the additional protection – was first reported in April by Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk – that would enable them to sign a contract after they took action. It is his duty to fulfill his duties.
So far, nothing has changed since he signed a deal in March that changed his view of Watson or Contempt seeking out a contract – not even the 24th suit filed Wednesday.
Likewise, sources say that the Browns are trying to void the blockbuster trade with the Texans – which includes three first-round draft picks and three other picks in exchange for Watson and a sixth-rounder. Watson’s misconduct, even though the Texans will soon be enlisted for a defendant as soon as possible.
Watson’s lawyer, Rusty Hardin, has been articulated by Watson of The Franchise’s Unwavering Support.
“The Browns and all of us know that Deshaun is still completely behind him,” Hardin told Cleveland.com in a text response. “These are the latest claims [plaintiffs’ attorney Tony] Buzbee’s change is nothing, and they are absolutely false, and when they conclude everything they hear is evidence. ”
June 10, 2022 by admin
CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Browns are still looking for new civil suits and allegations, and looking to void his NFL-record, fully guaranteed $ 230 million contract or trade with the Texans, league sources tell Cleveland. com.
The five-year deal – and the additional protection – was first reported in April by Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk – that would enable them to sign a contract after they took action. It is his duty to fulfill his duties.
So far, nothing has changed since he signed a deal in March that changed his view of Watson or Contempt seeking out a contract – not even the 24th suit filed Wednesday.
Likewise, sources say that the Browns are trying to void the blockbuster trade with the Texans – which includes three first-round draft picks and three other picks in exchange for Watson and a sixth-rounder. Watson’s misconduct, even though the Texans will soon be enlisted for a defendant as soon as possible.
Watson’s lawyer, Rusty Hardin, has been articulated by Watson of The Franchise’s Unwavering Support.
“The Browns and all of us know that Deshaun is still completely behind him,” Hardin told Cleveland.com in a text response. “These are the latest claims [plaintiffs’ attorney Tony] Buzbee’s change is nothing, and they are absolutely false, and when they conclude everything they hear is evidence. ”
I’m not talking about the video. I’m talking about the overall situation. It was alluded to by Buzbee in his Instagram post that he has information the ADA did not allow the detective or her team to speak with certain women.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Deshaun Watson, not looking to void $ 230 million contract or trade with Texans, sources say
June 10, 2022 by admin
CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Browns are still looking for new civil suits and allegations, and looking to void his NFL-record, fully guaranteed $ 230 million contract or trade with the Texans, league sources tell Cleveland. com.
The five-year deal – and the additional protection – was first reported in April by Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk – that would enable them to sign a contract after they took action. It is his duty to fulfill his duties.
So far, nothing has changed since he signed a deal in March that changed his view of Watson or Contempt seeking out a contract – not even the 24th suit filed Wednesday.
Likewise, sources say that the Browns are trying to void the blockbuster trade with the Texans – which includes three first-round draft picks and three other picks in exchange for Watson and a sixth-rounder. Watson’s misconduct, even though the Texans will soon be enlisted for a defendant as soon as possible.
Watson’s lawyer, Rusty Hardin, has been articulated by Watson of The Franchise’s Unwavering Support.
“The Browns and all of us know that Deshaun is still completely behind him,” Hardin told Cleveland.com in a text response. “These are the latest claims [plaintiffs’ attorney Tony] Buzbee’s change is nothing, and they are absolutely false, and when they conclude everything they hear is evidence. ”
June 10, 2022 by admin
CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Browns are still looking for new civil suits and allegations, and looking to void his NFL-record, fully guaranteed $ 230 million contract or trade with the Texans, league sources tell Cleveland. com.
The five-year deal – and the additional protection – was first reported in April by Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk – that would enable them to sign a contract after they took action. It is his duty to fulfill his duties.
So far, nothing has changed since he signed a deal in March that changed his view of Watson or Contempt seeking out a contract – not even the 24th suit filed Wednesday.
Likewise, sources say that the Browns are trying to void the blockbuster trade with the Texans – which includes three first-round draft picks and three other picks in exchange for Watson and a sixth-rounder. Watson’s misconduct, even though the Texans will soon be enlisted for a defendant as soon as possible.
Watson’s lawyer, Rusty Hardin, has been articulated by Watson of The Franchise’s Unwavering Support.
“The Browns and all of us know that Deshaun is still completely behind him,” Hardin told Cleveland.com in a text response. “These are the latest claims [plaintiffs’ attorney Tony] Buzbee’s change is nothing, and they are absolutely false, and when they conclude everything they hear is evidence. ”
She didn’t say what? I’m telling you. The amount of charges he would be facing, would require more of him to prove his innocence.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Buzbee said in a statement. “I didn’t know, but now know after speaking to the investigating officer under oath, that the police investigation team was convinced that Watson had committed more than ten sexual crimes, or that the ADA has prevented the investigating officers from talking to the women who had filed lawsuits but had not filed criminal complaints.
And how would you handicap that one ?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Whenever there may be overwhelming circumstantial evidence in a case, it commonly comes down to the defense having to prove otherwise.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I posted this when it first came out. It would be interesting if Buzbee considers deposing her.
**************
Clip of Deshaun Watson Hanging Out With Former Adult Film Star Mia Khalifa Resurfaces Amid Off Field Trouble (VIDEO)
June 10, 2022 by Darrelle Lincoln
Back in 2017, a harmless clip was posted online showing former porn star Mia Khalifa trying to dunk on Deshaun Watson with a mini hoop behind him. Jokes were made at the time, but we had no clue how things would come full circle with what the Browns QB is dealing with these days.
The then-Texans rookie quarterback woke up on his 22nd birthday with a happy birthday message from former porn star Mia Khalifa and the rest is history.
**************
Clip of Deshaun Watson Hanging Out With Former Adult Film Star Mia Khalifa Resurfaces Amid Off Field Trouble (VIDEO)
June 10, 2022 by Darrelle Lincoln
Back in 2017, a harmless clip was posted online showing former porn star Mia Khalifa trying to dunk on Deshaun Watson with a mini hoop behind him. Jokes were made at the time, but we had no clue how things would come full circle with what the Browns QB is dealing with these days.
The then-Texans rookie quarterback woke up on his 22nd birthday with a happy birthday message from former porn star Mia Khalifa and the rest is history.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
a more ghoulish leer, I've not often seen.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
New York Times’ columnist Kurt Streeter has called for a lifetime ban of Watson. Miami Herald columnist Greg Cote wrote that the NFL must suspend Watson for more than a year, considering that the league banned Ricky Williams for a year for marijuana and gave Michael Vick a two-year suspension for dogfighting.
There just isn’t a recent NFL precedent that tips the hand of what Goodell might do with Watson, but Major League Baseball set a pretty bold one in April. It suspended Trevor Bauer for two years when three women accused him of violent assaults during sex. The suspension was handed down even after a district attorney decided not to pursue criminal charges against the Dodgers pitcher. That’s a big leap in severity from what MLB did in 2018 when it gave Blue Jays closer Roberto Osuna – who the Astros later traded for – a 75-game suspension after he was arrested and charged with assaulting the mother of his child. The charge was later dropped when the woman refused to testify.
Football fans and non-fans alike are waiting to see how seriously the NFL is going to take the Watson cases. In Houston, football fans will be paying attention for completely secondary reasons: The Texans will play the Browns in the 13th game of the season and they own the Browns' first-round draft picks for the next two years.
LINK
There just isn’t a recent NFL precedent that tips the hand of what Goodell might do with Watson, but Major League Baseball set a pretty bold one in April. It suspended Trevor Bauer for two years when three women accused him of violent assaults during sex. The suspension was handed down even after a district attorney decided not to pursue criminal charges against the Dodgers pitcher. That’s a big leap in severity from what MLB did in 2018 when it gave Blue Jays closer Roberto Osuna – who the Astros later traded for – a 75-game suspension after he was arrested and charged with assaulting the mother of his child. The charge was later dropped when the woman refused to testify.
Football fans and non-fans alike are waiting to see how seriously the NFL is going to take the Watson cases. In Houston, football fans will be paying attention for completely secondary reasons: The Texans will play the Browns in the 13th game of the season and they own the Browns' first-round draft picks for the next two years.
LINK
The conversation I was engaged in was about the video/report
guess I didn’t know when to get off this train
Why should she be called to testify?
You believe Watson committed crimes. I believe Watson committed crimes. GJ shouldn’t be asking either of us to testify.
Unless our testimony provides material evidence & if the officer did not witness the crime, her beliefs are circumstancial & not material evidence.
In other words, this is not grounds for calling a special prosecutor. Meetings with the defense attorney is.
Rusty gets no say whatsoever in who gets to testify in a GJ proceeding. The fact the DA mentioned that Rusty would be uncomfortable is highly dubious. And the officer gathered the evidence. Yes she should testify and many, many times this is a common occurrence not only in Harris County, but everywhere in the United States. I have many dealings with officers where I need their testimony even if they didn’t witness what happened, but took statements and gathered evidence. This is a common practice. What’s not common is not allowing the detective to interview certain women and to not testify. Can you explain why she was called to testify in Brazoria County, but not Harris County. I can.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
“The presumption of innocence is a fundamental tenet of our justice system,” attorney Leah Graham told Schrotenboer in a Friday statement. “It is incredibly unfortunate that this presumption was not given to Deshaun Watson by one of the investigating officers. Ultimately, however, justice was served by two grand juries in two separate jurisdictions who did what this detective refused to do: take a fair and impartial look at all of the evidence before reaching a conclusion.”
Frankly, the playing of the “presumption of innocence” card in this context is extremely disingenuous and deliberately misleading. The presumption of innocence applies only after a suspect is officially charged with a crime. If every police officer went around presuming the innocence of every potential defendant, NO ONE WOULD EVER BE CHARGED.
The police identify the people they believe are factually guilty. The prosecutors, often working with a grand jury, frame the charges, if any, that flow from the available facts. Then, if the suspect becomes a defendant in a looming criminal trial, the presumption of innocence attaches.
Justice, contrary to Graham’s statement, was not exclusively served by the two grand juries. Justice, as a practical matter, was deferred to the civil justice system.
Again, the decisions of the grand jury are not conclusive, especially without access to the full presentation made by Stallings. As explained earlier this week, Stallings quite possibly opted to share the information provided to her by Watson’s legal team in the hopes that the grand jury would not indict Watson, which would have forced her to try to prove multiple crimes beyond a reasonable doubt — while dealing with a dream team of high-priced lawyers who, as Rusty Hardin demonstrated by repeatedly contacting Stallings prior to the grand jury presentations, would have made her life as a practical matter miserable for the duration of the criminal cases.
***************************************************************
If the Tx AG or the Feds review the Hardin team manipulations of the GJ proceedings or the previously presented cases are re-presented to a new DA and GJ or new criminal complaints are filed..............Hardin will more likely be the one whose life is made miserable for the duration..............
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I posted this when it first came out. It would be interesting if Buzbee considers deposing her.
**************
Clip of Deshaun Watson Hanging Out With Former Adult Film Star Mia Khalifa Resurfaces Amid Off Field Trouble (VIDEO)
June 10, 2022 by Darrelle Lincoln
Back in 2017, a harmless clip was posted online showing former porn star Mia Khalifa trying to dunk on Deshaun Watson with a mini hoop behind him. Jokes were made at the time, but we had no clue how things would come full circle with what the Browns QB is dealing with these days.
The then-Texans rookie quarterback woke up on his 22nd birthday with a happy birthday message from former porn star Mia Khalifa and the rest is history.
Funny thing is if he had stuck to porn stars he still would be a pervert but at least it’s legal.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If you are Buzbee that is the worst thing that could happen. If that happens Watson might lose that 230 million contract and Buzbee wants it to keep that and then have to pay every cent of it out.
Buzbee’s job is to get his clients as much money as possible, it’s other people’s job to look into criminal side.
When those other people choose to look the other way, that’s where the problem lies. Even if Watson’s contract was somehow voided, that puts Watson in a worse position because then he might have zero money left over after having to pay out between the women and Hardin. The women are getting paid regardless, in which other defendants will be added to the lawsuits.
Also, think about this. Buzbee, by showing misconduct by one of the DA’s, could be setting up to sue the DA’s office and or county. He has already said he is going to subpoena the PowerPoint presentation that Rusty handed to the DA.
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I bet Mia wasn't afraid to get up in there deep.
You don't see why the investigating officer would be called to testify before the grand jury ?
To present the facts that he or she uncovered in the investigation .... maybe ?
we didn't investigate the case either ....
Circumstantial evidence is more than enough to convict, let alone indict.
All that's required for an indictment is "Probable Cause" and that threshold was met the moment the first woman made the complaint.
Yes, this is grounds for a special prosecutor to be called in. We have the investigating officer telling us that justice isn't being served and that the truth didn't come out at the previous grand jury hearing.
It's quite possible that these cases are presented to another GJ .... without the sleight of hand by the defense.
If you recall, I made statements prior that I had access to documents associated with the investigation / evidence and that I was almost certain that Watson would be indicted based upon those.
It was an absolute shock when that didn't occur.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Let’s say the NFL decides to suspend Watson for 2-3 seasons b/c of their investigation and what the civil trial uncovered.
I believe the Browns could have a position that Watson and his agent knowingly failed to explain the entirety of his situation. Their investigation was based on the GJ information, and what Watson, his agent, and Hardin told them. I believe the Browns could be in a position to void his contract for conduct detrimental to the team and then turn around and file a lawsuit to recoup any money paid. That only gets the Browns off their financial obligations……as for getting their trade for Watson nullified or getting the balance of picks awarded back, that’ll just have to be chalked up as a loss and tough lesson learned.
I believe the Browns could have a position that Watson and his agent knowingly failed to explain the entirety of his situation. Their investigation was based on the GJ information, and what Watson, his agent, and Hardin told them. I believe the Browns could be in a position to void his contract for conduct detrimental to the team and then turn around and file a lawsuit to recoup any money paid. That only gets the Browns off their financial obligations……as for getting their trade for Watson nullified or getting the balance of picks awarded back, that’ll just have to be chalked up as a loss and tough lesson learned.
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Mangler
Toro de España
I think it was all done behind the McNairs’ backs. Didn’t they fire the person that gave him that NDA?
The moment the browns said that they did their due diligence, which they have said multiple times, would hurt them in any attempt to recoup money. Also, the fact they never talked to any of the plaintiffs, they cannot act like they didn’t know.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Brent Naccara is entering his 3rd season as the Texans Director of Security and Logistics for All Player Operations. He gave Watson the NDA’s and it could’ve been for no other reason than to protect Watson and the team. This in no way means he was fully aware of what was going on behind closed doors but knew Watson was visiting many masseuses and should probably be protecting himself to some extent.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I’m basing this on the 2 new ones who came forward after Watson was traded. So did Watson, his agent and Hardin give the Browns all the facts? If more women continue to come forward…..that could give the Browns more ammunition to make their case.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
"Investigation was based on GJ information, and what Watson, his agent and Hardin told them" won't fly in that the Browns claimed they performed "extensive independent investigative, legal and reference work” before deciding to trade.
If the Browns try to "void the contract and file a lawsuit to recoup any money paid," watch Hardin sue the living Hell out of them...........and don't ask me on what basis..........Hardin will pull as many things out of his @$$ in order to save his cash cow and reputation. Then there will be the "little" complication of having to deal with a guaranteed lawsuit by our old friend Mulugheta and Athletes First.
Oh, what tangled webs we weave when we practice to deceive............
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If he has a chance to take a shot at anything Harris County he would take it in a second. Harris County is and has been in the crosshairs of those in Austin, due to bail reform, activist judges, and possibly the way the DA’s office is being ran.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
If the McNairs are guilty of everything Christian that almost everyone on this board loves to accuse them of, then this shitshow could prove that that’s not a bad thing to be accused of if they didn’t know. But this thing is complicated and can tangle people in its web. But it’s just amazing what one spoiled low rent star can do to everyone around him under the forgiveness of a woke society. The NFL seems to me to be at a tipping point. Makes me wonder just what OB’s involvement was also.
To testify to her beliefs? No. I was very specific in my response to what I'm responding to.
Again, my point is the GJ is to judge on merit of evidence, not merit of belief
Go back to the post I responded to, where is the mention of evidence. It's a poorly written piece based on belief intended to stir emotions
I wonder why the two new clients didn't file criminal complaints
The grapevines say Watson is not out of the woods just yet.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Why would they?
Criminal has a whole different standard of proof than a civil complaint. In these he-said/she-said sorts of things, it's almost impossible to meet the level of certainty needed for a criminal complaint.