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Head Coach Candidate (Lovie Smith Hired) 2/7/22

I wonder if the same people that poo-poo experience would let a butcher perform their surgery. 'Who needs a medical degree or years of training? My butcher has been cutting meat for 20 years. Same thing." How about firing your financial advisor and letting the teenager across the street manage your retirement account? He's big on this stuff call crypto, I hear.

Yes. And we are where we belong.

Thanks for helping make my point.

Yes, b/c we all know that a meat butcher is sooooooo close to a medical surgeon...well, b/c they both cut things....🙄. Such a ridiculously absurd analogy. Ditto for your teenager across the street one as well. Ok i'll bite & use your analogy to boot. A general surgeon in the 1st few years of their general surgery rotation isn't all that much more experienced or even better than say a physician assistant with a specialty in CT surgery & 10+ years of real OR and case experience. You as a patient might feel better b/c your surgeon has respectable degrees, all types of experience removing hemmorhoids and fixing hernias and other actual varied experience, but that may not move the needle for you if you're coming to them for a bypass surgery. Lol.

All experience isn't equal. Same holds true for inexperience.
 
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I wonder if the same people that poo-poo experience would let a butcher perform their surgery. 'Who needs a medical degree or years of training? My butcher has been cutting meat for 20 years. Same thing." How about firing your financial advisor and letting the teenager across the street manage your retirement account? He's big on this stuff call crypto, I hear.
Funny but, at least take people from the same industry to make a fair comparison even if the answer is still no. General practitioner and stock brokers seem more like comparable jobs for your comparison. Just sayin.
 
I value experience. But there’s a difference between healing & cooking.

Anyhoo, the people that poo-poo experience asked a valid question. What’s the difference between 3 years coaching & 5 years as a player coach?

I believe McCown can be a good HC - someday - but he has to work at it. I have to wonder why he hasn't tried to become a QB coach on an NFL staff by now. Nothing he has done since retirement makes me think he would be a good HC NOW, or even deserves to be considered. Being a part time assistant coach on your sons high school team is not qualification.

I've never been either but IMO, the difference between playing and coaching is singular vs. plural. A player coach only has to focus on his position group, whereas a HC has to be all things to everyone in the organization. It's not only X's and O's, which I think is McCown's strength, but also babysitting, dealing with media, staff and front office, hiring and firing, providing discipline and guidance and dealing with everyone else's issues (DWI, domestic issues, etc...) beyond your control.

The way NC is going about this, and the previous, coaching search makes me believe he wants a coach he can control (i.e. Culley). NC wants to hire the coordinators and as much of the staff as he can instead of having the HC hires his own people. This limits both the number and type of HC candidates.

I'm a head coaching hire away from being done with this dumpster fire of an organization.
 
I believe McCown can be a good HC - someday - but he has to work at it. I have to wonder why he hasn't tried to become a QB coach on an NFL staff by now. Nothing he has done since retirement makes me think he would be a good HC NOW, or even deserves to be considered. Being a part time assistant coach on your sons high school team is not qualification.

I've never been either but IMO, the difference between playing and coaching is singular vs. plural. A player coach only has to focus on his position group, whereas a HC has to be all things to everyone in the organization. It's not only X's and O's, which I think is McCown's strength, but also babysitting, dealing with media, staff and front office, hiring and firing, providing discipline and guidance and dealing with everyone else's issues (DWI, domestic issues, etc...) beyond your control.

The way NC is going about this, and the previous, coaching search makes me believe he wants a coach he can control (i.e. Culley). NC wants to hire the coordinators and as much of the staff as he can instead of having the HC hires his own people. This limits both the number and type of HC candidates.

I'm a head coaching hire away from being done with this dumpster fire of an organization.

This is us applying how things typically happen for us........out here. Those rules generally don't apply to industries like the NFL..They never have & that's what alot of folks can't really grasp. How is it that a guy like John Lynch can go straight from the field to a GM position with 0 experience......he didn't spend years working his way up the FO ranks beforehand.

Typically college coaches who make the jump from college to the pros as HC's have either been hugely successful down there as HC's or have spent a few years on the NFL level as a position coaches. yet Kingsbury spent none on the NFL level as a coach, all his experience was as a college coach...& he was mediocore as hell at that....Didn't stop AZ from giving that dude a gig.

Alot of these ex-players have 0 experience or "qualifications" for the gigs they wind up in in the FO after they leave the field....So while i think McCown hasn't followed the traditional path we're all accustomed to & i would like to see another candidate, him being in the convo for a leadership gig without the requiste experience shouldn't be a surprise...The NFL has been trending this way for sometime.
 
I wonder if the same people that poo-poo experience would let a butcher perform their surgery. 'Who needs a medical degree or years of training? My butcher has been cutting meat for 20 years. Same thing." How about firing your financial advisor and letting the teenager across the street manage your retirement account? He's big on this stuff call crypto, I hear.
Could a surgeon, with no experience in the food industry, butcher a beef?
 
One has spent time playing. The other has spent time coaching.

There's absolutely no argument that can be made for McCown as a head coach. Because he's never coached. So, we argue what is coaching and how difficult it is to learn to be a coach. "I've seen coaching, so I think I've got it. Doesn't look that hard". It's the same mentality that has permeated society. Having knowledge is unpopular and is to be mistrusted, and therefore discounted.

I am totally with you on that - especially that last part. I just wasn't so sure, if that particular job needed it. But like I said, I don't really know what I am talking about. Just by what I have seen on Hard Knocks it seems like personality/people skills/ football mind are the most important factors - but there are probably a lot of intricacies that I have no idea about and for which you actually do need experience...
 
This is us applying how things typically happen for us........out here. Those rules generally don't apply to industries like the NFL..They never have & that's what alot of folks can't really grasp. How is it that a guy like John Lynch can go straight from the field to a GM position with 0 experience......he didn't spend years working his way up the FO ranks beforehand.

Typically college coaches who make the jump from college to the pros as HC's have either been hugely successful down there as HC's or have spent a few years on the NFL level as a position coaches. yet Kingsbury spent none on the NFL level as a coach, all his experience was as a college coach...& he was mediocore as hell at that....Didn't stop AZ from giving that dude a gig.

Alot of these ex-players have 0 experience or "qualifications" for the gigs they wind up in in the FO after they leave the field....So while i think McCown hasn't followed the traditional path we're all accustomed to & i would like to see another candidate, him being in the convo for a leadership gig without the requiste experience shouldn't be a surprise...The NFL has been trending this way for sometime.

To your point there was nothing at all in Elway's resume to make him qualify to be a GM other than he was a legend in Denver. Yet he put a team together good enough to win. I will grant you Denver has been crap since then but they still were king of the mountain for one year.
 
I am totally with you on that - especially that last part. I just wasn't so sure, if that particular job needed it. But like I said, I don't really know what I am talking about. Just by what I have seen on Hard Knocks it seems like personality/people skills/ football mind are the most important factors - but there are probably a lot of intricacies that I have no idea about and for which you actually do need experience...
Don't know what these intricacies would be. Are there ANY coaching decisions which, of necessity, are made by a HC without first first consulting with your assistants? When inexperienced, the secret to sucess is delegating to those who may know more than you do, while maintaining final decision making. And there is Caserio.

A quick mind can have a good grasp on the needed intricacies of coaching after a year of tutoring. The Texans are not going to be contending in 2022 so the team can afford to bring McCown along, if they think he has long term potential.
 
One has spent time playing. The other has spent time coaching.

There's absolutely no argument that can be made for McCown as a head coach. Because he's never coached. So, we argue what is coaching and how difficult it is to learn to be a coach. "I've seen coaching, so I think I've got it. Doesn't look that hard". It's the same mentality that has permeated society. Having knowledge is unpopular and is to be mistrusted, and therefore discounted.

Lol, you are so wrong sir & it actually works the direct opposite more often than not. Society believes that only after you've done this....obtained this degree & that certification can you even be considered knowledgeable and qualified. I speak from experience on this. My current employer wanted a nurse to do the position that i currently hold. A nurse held it before me. It was in the damn job description that that's what they preferred. The thinking was that their experience & knowledge as a nurse was what was needed in the position to do it well. I by contrast am not a nurse. But i spent 15 years in the thick of it in the OR, Cath lab, scrubbing in & helping surgeons & cardiologists do some pretty intense, life saving ****...Routinely had people's lives in my hands. I learned ALOT alongside those guys about surgery & medicine in general & put it with my own education.. So when i interviewed for the current position i hold, you couldn't talk around me about anything. I was well-rounded. & i got the gig b/c of that. Were there deficits? sure. But no more so than there would've been been had they bypassed me and stuck to their rigid qualifications & were deadset on getting any ol' nurse with no experience other than her having an RN certification.
 
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To your point there was nothing at all in Elway's resume to make him qualify to be a GM other than he was a legend in Denver. Yet he put a team together good enough to win. I will grant you Denver has been crap since then but they still were king of the mountain for one year.
John Lynch put together a team that went to 3 NFCCGs & a Super Bowl

Mike Mayock built a team that went to the playoffs
 
I am totally with you on that - especially that last part. I just wasn't so sure, if that particular job needed it. But like I said, I don't really know what I am talking about. Just by what I have seen on Hard Knocks it seems like personality/people skills/ football mind are the most important factors - but there are probably a lot of intricacies that I have no idea about and for which you actually do need experience...
Hiring a NFL player straight out of retirement to a head coaching position hasn't been done in over 60 years (Norm Van Brocklin in 1961). That should tell you a lot, right there. And they can't show much beyond team speeches on Hard Knocks because teams don't want to let their opponents know the actual X's & O's of the game plans.

Ask yourself why only the Texans are considering a head coach with zero coaching experience. This isn't a sitcom on Apple TV. This is real life team in a $multi-billion business. Who does business like this?
 
Hiring a NFL player straight out of retirement to a head coaching position hasn't been done in over 60 years (Norm Van Brocklin in 1961). That should tell you a lot, right there. And they can't show much beyond team speeches on Hard Knocks because teams don't want to let their opponents know the actual X's & O's of the game plans.

Ask yourself why only the Texans are considering a head coach with zero coaching experience. This isn't a sitcom on Apple TV. This is real life team in a $multi-billion business. Who does business like this?

Doesn't say much of anything really..Only that owners have been too scared to change their obviously outdated hiring practices...but that's the NFL...slow to change everything. But its slowly changing. These young guys are getting jobs & interviews faster and faster it seems...some with very little experience. See Leftwitch.
 
Isn't this an example of "us" applying things that happen to us?

it is....but its more apt than your analogy & im not under the same illusion as you. I understand that not everyone whom is hired has all the requiste qualifications to be where they are. I acknowledge that there's more to the pie than having x number of years doing this...x number doing that etc. etc.

Bill Belichick has not 1...but 2 of his children on his staff as position coaches. Andy Reid had his son on his staff too before he stupidly killed someone in a car wreck and went to jail. What experience & qualifications did they have to be added to their daddy's staff over say some other poor slub who's been trying to break in on the pro level as any type of coach & why are you not questioning that?
 
D

Different sports, doesn't work like that
Wrong

I'm just telling you that when you hire a 65 year old guy with a full rebuild ahead of you, then that's exactly what that the Culley hire was, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
 
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Funny but, at least take people from the same industry to make a fair comparison even if the answer is still no. General practitioner and stock brokers seem more like comparable jobs for your comparison. Just sayin.

OK, I’m not hiring the 20 year dental assistant to be my oral surgeon.
 
Just to be clear there is only one Snake!

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OK, I’m not hiring the 20 year dental assistant to be my oral surgeon.

Still not really apt b/c none of the candidates currently in the running for the gig have ever been HC's except for Flores...& he wasn't all that great at it either. So in keeping with the analogy lol, At best, you're gonna get a guy fresh out of dental school who has only done or been part of a few cases as an intern....maybe.
 
OK, so I'm just going to go off on a pie-in-the-sky wild blue tangent of epic proportions. With maybe a little rant mixed in for good measure.

Like some people here, I'm going to base what I'm about to say on my own experience in the work force.

So, the classic model to "build" a manager or an heir apparent to run a company, is to have that person start at the bottom and work their way up, preferably working in all the different departments of the company so that they know all the different facets of the business. You can see elements of that in the normal process of selection for head coaches. It's normally someone who has come up through the ranks, starting as a player, retiring and becoming a low level assistant somewhere, then moving up in responsibility and working with one or more position groups before becoming a coordinator, and finally graduating to be a head coach. There are some coaches who've skipped the player part, or at least, never played at anything more than a high school or college level.

The problem with this model is that just because someone is good at doing a job doesn't mean that they're good at managing other people doing the same job and/or doing the job of that higher level. It's a peter principle thing. You get people rising up the food chain because they're good at something, but then they hit a point where they suck, and that's where they spend the rest of their careers, doing something they suck at and probably hate doing.

In my business, most of the managers didn't come up through the ranks. My manager could not do my job. It can help to know what someone like me does, but in some cases, it actually hurts because they're out of practice or don't do it as well, and so they start making bad decisions based on faulty info that they think gives them more domain knowledge than they have.

Most managers are trained to be... managers. They know all the stuff about coordinating the projects, about managing the resources to make sure everyone has what they need, coordinating those resources between projects. They know which projects need priority and which ones can go onto the back burner.

You see a lot of coordinators who graduate to being head coaches and then suck at it. Many times a coordinator who is great in their specialty (like the offense) can't really reproduce that greatness on that side of the ball once they become a head coach. Brian Billick came to the Ravens from the Vikings where he was the OC for a great offense, but then at the Ravens, he could never reproduce that offensive firepower and won because he had great defensive coordinators. But also, the coordinators sometimes don't have the skills for management of the clock that a head coach needs to worry about.

Being a head coach isn't just about coaching, it's about scheduling the practices, getting their coordinators things they need, managing the coaches as well as the players, etc. On game day, they have to be aware of the big picture while the coordinators have to just focus on their side of the ball. I'm sure there are a zillion things a head coach does that I'm totally clueless about.

So, for me, I wonder why nothing has been put in place to just train people to be head coaches, to give them the knowledge they need to do their jobs as effectively as possible. I mean, maybe something does exist like that, but if it did, I imagine you wouldn't have guys like Culley and O'Brien screwing up basics like down and distance, whether to accept or decline a penalty, and clock management.

I'm not against someone who's outside the normal path for coaches to come in and coach. I find it hard to believe that McCown would be the right guy or that he would have the right skills and knowledge. But I could be wrong.

I just want the Texans to pick someone and it to end up a good choice even if we all *****, whine, and moan about it initially.

I apologize for the rant.

Now, back to your regular programming.

Boo, Easterby, Boo!
 
OK, so I'm just going to go off on a pie-in-the-sky wild blue tangent of epic proportions. With maybe a little rant mixed in for good measure.

Like some people here, I'm going to base what I'm about to say on my own experience in the work force.

So, the classic model to "build" a manager or an heir apparent to run a company, is to have that person start at the bottom and work their way up, preferably working in all the different departments of the company so that they know all the different facets of the business. You can see elements of that in the normal process of selection for head coaches. It's normally someone who has come up through the ranks, starting as a player, retiring and becoming a low level assistant somewhere, then moving up in responsibility and working with one or more position groups before becoming a coordinator, and finally graduating to be a head coach. There are some coaches who've skipped the player part, or at least, never played at anything more than a high school or college level.

The problem with this model is that just because someone is good at doing a job doesn't mean that they're good at managing other people doing the same job and/or doing the job of that higher level. It's a peter principle thing. You get people rising up the food chain because they're good at something, but then they hit a point where they suck, and that's where they spend the rest of their careers, doing something they suck at and probably hate doing.

In my business, most of the managers didn't come up through the ranks. My manager could not do my job. It can help to know what someone like me does, but in some cases, it actually hurts because they're out of practice or don't do it as well, and so they start making bad decisions based on faulty info that they think gives them more domain knowledge than they have.

Most managers are trained to be... managers. They know all the stuff about coordinating the projects, about managing the resources to make sure everyone has what they need, coordinating those resources between projects. They know which projects need priority and which ones can go onto the back burner.

You see a lot of coordinators who graduate to being head coaches and then suck at it. Many times a coordinator who is great in their specialty (like the offense) can't really reproduce that greatness on that side of the ball once they become a head coach. Brian Billick came to the Ravens from the Vikings where he was the OC for a great offense, but then at the Ravens, he could never reproduce that offensive firepower and won because he had great defensive coordinators. But also, the coordinators sometimes don't have the skills for management of the clock that a head coach needs to worry about.

Being a head coach isn't just about coaching, it's about scheduling the practices, getting their coordinators things they need, managing the coaches as well as the players, etc. On game day, they have to be aware of the big picture while the coordinators have to just focus on their side of the ball. I'm sure there are a zillion things a head coach does that I'm totally clueless about.

So, for me, I wonder why nothing has been put in place to just train people to be head coaches, to give them the knowledge they need to do their jobs as effectively as possible. I mean, maybe something does exist like that, but if it did, I imagine you wouldn't have guys like Culley and O'Brien screwing up basics like down and distance, whether to accept or decline a penalty, and clock management.

I'm not against someone who's outside the normal path for coaches to come in and coach. I find it hard to believe that McCown would be the right guy or that he would have the right skills and knowledge. But I could be wrong.

I just want the Texans to pick someone and it to end up a good choice even if we all *****, whine, and moan about it initially.

I apologize for the rant.

Now, back to your regular programming.

Boo, Easterby, Boo!

Great post & i think the reason for why that framework doesn't exist is b/c there is no right or wrong way to do it. 53 men. 53 personalities. & all of those guys have to be motivated to play as 1. The only surefire qualifications that we know for a fact are needed as a HC is leadership and the ability to manage people. & that isn't necessarily something that tends to comes across to fans.
 
Wrong

I'm just telling you that when you hire a 65 ye old guy with a full rebuild ahead of you, then that's exactly what that the Culley hire was, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
Read your post and analysis. 1st, you're trying to compare the most balanced sport in the world (football) to a sport where 3/4 of the teams don't have a chance from the opening pitch. The NFL, is setup to half the league is 10-7, 9-8,8-9, parity. The ridiculousness that Jack Caserio hired a puppet, then claim philosophical differences should tell fans alot of the judgement of the 2. The fact this opening is a dumpster fire because the gm wants to control all coach duties, but doesn't want the heat of coaching says alot. If they wanted a rebuild with a older coach, there were a plethora of those guys, but what you cant tell Leslie Frazier, Marvin Lewis, Jim Caldwell and guys like is who to play on the 53 or have a failure like Romeo on the headset. So they hired a puppet who Jack Caserio can control and was happy to have 1/32. Now, look whats happening. They're interviewing guys who being interviewing by other organizations and a McCown who has never coached at all. So when you bring up Porter, you're wrong times 3
 
To your point there was nothing at all in Elway's resume to make him qualify to be a GM other than he was a legend in Denver. Yet he put a team together good enough to win. I will grant you Denver has been crap since then but they still were king of the mountain for one year.
John Elway had won an arena league title with the Colorado Crush in 2002 prior to any involvement with the Denver Broncos FO. He was chairman of the AFL committee through 2008 as well. He became involved with DEN from a FO perspective in 2010. I think I read somewhere at the time that Bowlen told him he needed experience and to go get some.
Just sayin….
 
Read your post and analysis. 1st, you're trying to compare the most balanced sport in the world (football) to a sport where 3/4 of the teams don't have a chance from the opening pitch. The NFL, is setup to half the league is 10-7, 9-8,8-9, parity. The ridiculousness that Jack Caserio hired a puppet, then claim philosophical differences should tell fans alot of the judgement of the 2. The fact this opening is a dumpster fire because the gm wants to control all coach duties, but doesn't want the heat of coaching says alot. If they wanted a rebuild with a older coach, there were a plethora of those guys, but what you cant tell Leslie Frazier, Marvin Lewis, Jim Caldwell and guys like is who to play on the 53 or have a failure like Romeo on the headset. So they hired a puppet who Jack Caserio can control and was happy to have 1/32. Now, look whats happening. They're interviewing guys who being interviewing by other organizations and a McCown who has never coached at all. So when you bring up Porter, you're wrong times 3

You cant seem to accept that Culley was hired for a reason and it certainly wasn't to be the long term answer as the HC. Kinda like Porter was never meant to be the long term manager of the Stros.

BTW, IMHO Caserio is looking for his Hinch, a guy that uses analytics in his decision making and has a background in scouting. Somebody that thinks about the game the same as Caserio does. Hopefully Caserio finds his guy and from what I've read this pretty well describes Gannon. Even though I'm hoping for O'Connell.

What I'm happy about is after this hire, for the 1st time in 10 yrs the GM/HC will be on the same page in what type of offense/defense they want to run and the type of talent that needs to be acquired to run their systems. It's been since the beginning of the Kubiak regime since RS/Kubiak were on the same page down on Kirby. Too bad RS went political/rogue on Kubiak.
 
Read your post and analysis. 1st, you're trying to compare the most balanced sport in the world (football) to a sport where 3/4 of the teams don't have a chance from the opening pitch. The NFL, is setup to half the league is 10-7, 9-8,8-9, parity. The ridiculousness that Jack Caserio hired a puppet, then claim philosophical differences should tell fans alot of the judgement of the 2. The fact this opening is a dumpster fire because the gm wants to control all coach duties, but doesn't want the heat of coaching says alot. If they wanted a rebuild with a older coach, there were a plethora of those guys, but what you cant tell Leslie Frazier, Marvin Lewis, Jim Caldwell and guys like is who to play on the 53 or have a failure like Romeo on the headset. So they hired a puppet who Jack Caserio can control and was happy to have 1/32. Now, look whats happening. They're interviewing guys who being interviewing by other organizations and a McCown who has never coached at all. So when you bring up Porter, you're wrong times 3
I Believe he hired Culley because of the monumental BS and personell changes needed to eradicate the image of DW and OB. Culley was first and foremost a people person. He by far had the strongest people skills of the HC candidates which is why NC told him it didn’t matter to him if DC had never been a coordinator. From all indications the philosophical differences between the two was over the dogmatism of DC’s run game.
 
There are cases where an active player is proactive in preparing for coaching after retiring from playing. This would involve picking their coaches brains, asking why something is done such and such way, getting involved in all disciplines, asking what all is involved in coaching and making coaching decisions...the picture I have is something similar to an unofficial apprenticeship.

I believe McCown has said that for the last four or five years before his retirement from playing, he was preparing for coaching. I'm sure this will be asked about in the press conference, if he's hired. I'm sure it was addressed in his interviews.
 
I believe McCown can be a good HC - someday - but he has to work at it. I have to wonder why he hasn't tried to become a QB coach on an NFL staff by now. Nothing he has done since retirement makes me think he would be a good HC NOW, or even deserves to be considered. Being a part time assistant coach on your sons high school team is not qualification.

I've never been either but IMO, the difference between playing and coaching is singular vs. plural. A player coach only has to focus on his position group, whereas a HC has to be all things to everyone in the organization. It's not only X's and O's, which I think is McCown's strength, but also babysitting, dealing with media, staff and front office, hiring and firing, providing discipline and guidance and dealing with everyone else's issues (DWI, domestic issues, etc...) beyond your control.

The way NC is going about this, and the previous, coaching search makes me believe he wants a coach he can control (i.e. Culley). NC wants to hire the coordinators and as much of the staff as he can instead of having the HC hires his own people. This limits both the number and type of HC candidates.

I'm a head coaching hire away from being done with this dumpster fire of an organization.

So wih a McCown hire,

1. He's good with X/O's
2. He's on the same page as the FO
3. He should be good with the staff, because McCown and Lovie have a close relationship.
4. He should be good in the lockerrom with the players because he just recently retired and should be able to deal ith the off field stuff, because of this.

5.The only thing that he may or may not do well with is dealing with the media.

Heck, I dont want McCown as HC, but you've almost talked me into thinking McCown would be a great hire.
 
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After seeing last yrs OL this isn't a great loss.

Gotta find a HC that has the connections to the best OL coach possible. Tell me what type of offense the Texans are gong to run 1st though. This is why I think by the end of the week the next HC will be hired. After all, this is Sr. Bowl week.
Is Munchak available? Would he be a good hire?
 
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