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DW4 staying or going?

On May 1st 2021 DeShawn Watson will be:

  • Total voters
    53
PapaL said:
Fans have nothing to do w that side of the deal. That’s business. He’s been nothing but class to the city and fans. Why would we expect anything else?
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We fans already have an uphill battle with the ownership and management incompetence.

Crippling the team hurts the fans, more than it hurts ownetship and management.

Im all for a solid F you to the McNairs and their questionable management.... but the owners get paid regardless.

Management gets paid, regardless.

The fans are the only ones to suffer if you cripple a teams ability to begin rebuilding.
 
thunderkyss said:
That article didn't say Caserio was not instrumental and primarily responsible. Only that guidelines were given. I imagine something like, "Watson said we need to be aware of past wrongs of racially biased hiring practices. There are damn good coaches out there who have been passed over & forgotten. See if you can find me one of those."
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My question had nothing to do with the article or Caserio. It was a stand alone question. How would you feel if Janice was mostly responsible for the Culley hiring?
 
KA4Texan said:
We fans already have an uphill battle with the ownership and management incompetence.

Crippling the team hurts the fans, more than it hurts ownetship and management.

Im all for a solid F you to the McNairs and their questionable management.... but the owners get paid regardless.

Management gets paid, regardless.

The fans are the only ones to suffer if you cripple a teams ability to begin rebuilding.
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I agree that fans are the children left crying in corner but when Daddy (franchise) and Mommy (players) fight, it’s not our fault.

Franchises always find a younger model and move on quickly. This one knows better and wants out. It’s not our fight.
 
KA4Texan said:
We fans already have an uphill battle with the ownership and management incompetence.

Crippling the team hurts the fans, more than it hurts ownetship and management.

Im all for a solid F you to the McNairs and their questionable management.... but the owners get paid regardless.

Management gets paid, regardless.

The fans are the only ones to suffer if you cripple a teams ability to begin rebuilding.
Click to expand...

Aka the Houston Rockets after Harden pulled that crap on them. Now the team is not worth watching.
 
PapaL said:
I agree that fans are the children left crying in corner but when Daddy (franchise) and Mommy (players) fight, it’s not our fault.

Franchises always find a younger model and move on quickly. This one knows better and wants out. It’s not our fight.
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Didnt say it was our fault. I simply reciprocate his disregaurd for fans if it comes to crippling my team.


If he wants out and its mutually beneficial I couldnt care less what he does.

Cripple my team cause you couldnt care less about me..(a fan)... I return that "loyalty"

He cries about loyalty, but it goes both ways.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I really don't know why everyone tries associate a later RD1 in 2022 and beyond is viewed as something different. No one has a crystal ball that guarantees that those RD1 picks are going to be like RD2 or RD3 picks. A RD1 pick will be exactly what it for that particular draft. Sorry Houston, your trade of Watson which got some of your RD1 picks after 2021 will be adjusted for the following years....the 2022 RD1 will be moved to RD2.....2023 RD1 pick will be adjusted to a RD3 instead.

If the team that Watson. Suddenly is ransacked by injuries and wind up with a top 5 pick in 2022.....guess what, the Texans would have a 2022 RD1 pick in the top 5 and if they suck as expected in 2021.....the Texans would have 2 picks in the top 5. So, who would be crying that the Texans got a RD1 picks included in 2022 and 2023 as part of the trade package?
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I think I'm reading your post correctly but correct me if not. You cannot factor in what may happens after trade that moves the pick up or down; you make the trade based on what value the picks has when trade done. Yes the 1.3 we gave Miami has that value now for the 2021 draft but Texans had use of LT Tunsil protecting our ass er asset for two seasons. When trade was completed this pick had the value only of a round three and the 2021 first had value of a round two in SEPTEMBER 2019. The NFL and most others use the draft value chart. Yes if you want to ignore the value of having Tunsil for two seasons I see your point. Even the 2020 first we gave to Miami in that deal allowed us to utilize Tunsil and entire season. The trade of Watson should be looked at from the Dolphins perspective to compare with Tunsil. We want to push as many future selections to 2021 draft due to strength of positions we need now. If we get 1.3 and 1.18 plus 2022 round one plus 2021 2..35 and 2.50, the round twos are like a round one but do offer two players compared to the one.
 
texans FO seems like the type of team they will be gangsta Watson will need to retire ...and if we dont get a haul for him after two years well watson might not play again till 2026 !!!!
 
badboy said:
overall, I agree with you but, unless we bring in someone like Russell Wilson (no way) we need an excellent QB coach whatever his title for a rookie pick. Pep Hamilton appears on paper to be that guy with experience with Herbert 2020 having great rookie year and of course Andre Luck. My POV is if we now have our QB whisperer can we take a "lesser" candidate with high ceiling like Lance and add picks? Wilson rated # 8 overall with Tre Lance 15. Let's set aside Jets for the moment and go with Miami and #3 rather than using that package to trade up for #2 which might end up being Justin Fields for NY despite most here thinking Wilson better.

We get the Miami package for Wilson but trade 1.3 to Panthers (no to Teddy) and we take Tre Lance North Dakota State. I know pros and cons but he has all skills and athleticism of Fields or Wilson or close to it. Hamilton does his magic and we have more selections? At worse, if it takes another year or Lance implodes we have choice of QB in 2022.
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You want another Mulagetta/Avery guy so the Texans will be in the same place they are now in another 4 years? That's what you get if you pick Fields/Lance. Pass
 
Norg said:
texans FO seems like the type of team they will be gangsta Watson will need to retire ...and if we dont get a haul for him after two years well watson might not play again till 2026 !!!!
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He's going to play

37.5 mil in 2021 and another 37 mil I'm 2022 says he will play. He may sit out awhile but trust he will play.
 
Speedy said:
I agree for the most part, but you've eventually got to do something to move your football team forward. Having DW4 sitting out isn't going to do it. He sits out, the Texans get his signing bonus back, that's great and all, but you're still a team with no draft picks and now no QB, and we play this game again next year.

I'm certainly not in favor of doing Watson any favors by moving him out and allowing him to keep all of his money and to play NFL football somewhere other than here. I'd just as soon see him never take another NFL snap than to give in to his demands, but like I said, at some point you've got to do what's best for your franchise.

I'm not sure how next year's draft sets up (I know Detroit, Jets and possibly Philly have multiple 1sts), or who the top QBs available will be (not that the top QBs this year guarantee anything), but the Texans have got to figure out if they're really going to play hardball and let this play out, thus missing on the potential haul they could get now vs. what they could potentially get next year when you're playing this game again, or should they start that moving forward process now and take that haul. Provided there's one to take, of course, which I believe there will be.
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I do get it but you’re not really losing anything if you play hardball. If Watson sits you’re right you still have no picks but that just means we are in the same situation we would be anyway. Even if everything had been great this off season and Watson and the front office were posting pictures of all the fun they were having together we still wouldn’t have any picks till the 3rd round.

If we trade Watson unless it’s to the Jets and MAYBE Miami you are still a team with no real QB so you would play the same people that you would play if Watson is sitting out. Even if we did trade him and drafted Wilson I still would have him sit out a year.

With or without Watson we were most likely going to suck in 21 anyway. Watson May have made the difference in a few games but like we saw this year even at his best he can’t be an entire team. Fact is we are in full rebuild mode, even before all this happened we figured that Watson and Tunsil were the only two that weren't on the chopping block and that Watt was most likely going to be cut for cap reasons.

So if Watson sits from a team perspective we really aren’t worse off and we get that money back to help the future cap situation. I’m not saying don’t trade him just to draw a line in the sand, that’s just a bonus, I’m saying don’t trade him unless you get The Godfather type offer because you are no worse off for not trading him as you would have been anyway.
 
maverick512000 said:
Still say who cares what his intentions are, he is still under contract and I wouldn't mind getting that money we paid him back. Its easy to say you have no intention of playing in Feb. but when training camps roll around and there is real money on the line that uniform might not look so bad.
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What do you think about how a Team can just cut a contract?

You keep preaching hes under contract but we all know he can be cut or just released like JJ. You find it odd that JJ gets to choose his fairy tale ending and DW4 is tied to a tree?

If DW4 blew out his throwing shoulder would yoh honor his contract for the life of?
 
ATXtexanfan said:
What do you think about how a Team can just cut a contract?

You keep preaching hes under contract but we all know he can be cut or just released like JJ. You find it odd that JJ gets to choose his fairy tale ending and DW4 is tied to a tree?

If DW4 blew out his throwing shoulder would honor his contract for the life of?
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Not sure what your comparison here is. The JJ and Watson situations are nothing alike except both are about leaving Houston. JJ was cut partly because it was also best for the team, he was 17 million cap hit with almost no dead money so cutting him alone was enough to almost get us out of cap hell. The fact that it benefitted JJ as well was just icing on the cake.

Texans cut Watson and they are on the hook for a huge, huge amount of money and get nothing at all for it.

Watson is only “tied to a tree” after he picked the tree, the rope and which way he wanted to face for the view. He could have played out his rookie contract, the franchise tag the next year and then MAYBE the year after that though I doubt Texans could afford it and then been free and clear and nobody could say a word against him.

Also Watson has 110 million of his contract guaranteed, so if he blew out his shoulder as you say he’s still set for life.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
What do you think about how a Team can just cut a contract?

You keep preaching hes under contract but we all know he can be cut or just released like JJ. You find it odd that JJ gets to choose his fairy tale ending and DW4 is tied to a tree?

If DW4 blew out his throwing shoulder would yoh honor his contract for the life of?
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You have to understand how NFL contracts work .... there is guaranteed money and non guaranteed money.

If Watson broke his piehole and could never play again , the team would owe him $116,000,000.

If they cut him , they'd owe him the same amount.

Just about every player on an NFL contract has guarantees , Watson is simply an example.
 
KA4Texan said:
Didnt say it was our fault. I simply reciprocate his disregaurd for fans if it comes to crippling my team.


If he wants out and its mutually beneficial I couldnt care less what he does.

Cripple my team cause you couldnt care less about me..(a fan)... I return that "loyalty"

He cries about loyalty, but it goes both ways.
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When has he cried for loyalty? It sure wasn’t when he left a lung on the field in Jacksonville. We talk about it being our team but we’re not the ones out there putting in the work.
 
PapaL said:
All Watson has to do is suit up for “x” number of games to get credit for the season. They can both play this game long term.
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He has to suit up for at least 6 games to accrue a season.

The team can suspend him for 6 games at a time , two suspensions stops that season of accruement .... and they don't need a whole lot to suspend him for "conduct detrimental to the team."

The other thing is , they can VOID the guaranteed money in his contract for that same "conduct detrimental to the team" and still retain exclusive rights to him.

That's the joker in the deck .... and all of the above render his no trade clause .... near useless.
 
PapaL said:
When has he cried for loyalty? It sure wasn’t when he left a lung on the field in Jacksonville. We talk about it being our team but we’re not the ones out there putting in the work.
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Plenty of people in this country and around the world work hard giving their all, doesnt make their employer their business. It means they did their job, going above and beyond, doesnt give them a lifetime pass to do anything they want from that moment on.

Doesnt give ownership to Deshaun either.

He signed a contract to be part of this dumpster fire. Has it gotten worse since then? Yes, his drama isnt helping to do anything but fan the flames, but if he thought he was marrying the prom queen but found himself next to Carrie instead, he is an idiot.

Now he wants to act like being part of the Texans is the worst thing ever.

IF Watson signed up years ago with one season remaining like JJ.. I could have sympathy for him... at least a little bit.

He signed up knowing of the incompetence and dumpster fire that this organization was when he signed his name for a payday.

If he wanted out, he had the perfect opportunity to go elsewhere the right way... he didnt take it. Instead he signed a contract cause he wanted to get paid. I dont blame him, but if he was so desperately unhappy, he shouldn't have signed.

I dont sign a contract with a car dealer just cause I want a blue car if Im not happy with the deal.

Just like youd be pissed if the Toyota you bought and signed a contract for yesterday the dealership changed its mind and will now charge you more cause inflation dictates you pay 30k more cause, they arent happy with management not fixing the fluorescent lighting and hey, last year the salesperson "left everything they had out there on the sales floor".working with a broken wrist.

Id side with Watson on just about everything.... til I get to the contract part.

I was a Watson fan/defender in most cases, but not this.
 
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badboy said:
I think I'm reading your post correctly but correct me if not. You cannot factor in what may happens after trade that moves the pick up or down; you make the trade based on what value the picks has when trade done. Yes the 1.3 we gave Miami has that value now for the 2021 draft but Texans had use of LT Tunsil protecting our ass er asset for two seasons. When trade was completed this pick had the value only of a round three and the 2021 first had value of a round two in SEPTEMBER 2019. The NFL and most others use the draft value chart. Yes if you want to ignore the value of having Tunsil for two seasons I see your point. Even the 2020 first we gave to Miami in that deal allowed us to utilize Tunsil and entire season. The trade of Watson should be looked at from the Dolphins perspective to compare with Tunsil. We want to push as many future selections to 2021 draft due to strength of positions we need now. If we get 1.3 and 1.18 plus 2022 round one plus 2021 2..35 and 2.50, the round twos are like a round one but do offer two players compared to the one.
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I guess a better explanation: Would you be happier with the following deal: working ex: Watson is traded to Dolphins and they offer one of 2 packages, no combination of either, just one or the other:

A. 2021 1 Pick in each RD1-03-003, RD2-03-035, RD3-18-082, RD4-18-114 w/Comps 122+.

B. 2021 RD1, 2022, RD1, 2023 RD1, 2024 RD1

Me, I’m all over deal “B”.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
What do you think about how a Team can just cut a contract?

You keep preaching hes under contract but we all know he can be cut or just released like JJ. You find it odd that JJ gets to choose his fairy tale ending and DW4 is tied to a tree?

If DW4 blew out his throwing shoulder would yoh honor his contract for the life of?
Click to expand...

He will have gotten paid basically 37.5 mil for his troubles. That is with his signing bonus. Not to shabby, I'm guessing he will never go hungry. Although you do hear of cases of players that have a severe case of the dumbazz. So no, I don't feel sorry for the players. They chose this profession and know the risks.
 
maverick512000 said:
Not sure what your comparison here is. The JJ and Watson situations are nothing alike except both are about leaving Houston. JJ was cut partly because it was also best for the team, he was 17 million cap hit with almost no dead money so cutting him alone was enough to almost get us out of cap hell. The fact that it benefitted JJ as well was just icing on the cake.

Texans cut Watson and they are on the hook for a huge, huge amount of money and get nothing at all for it.

Watson is only “tied to a tree” after he picked the tree, the rope and which way he wanted to face for the view. He could have played out his rookie contract, the franchise tag the next year and then MAYBE the year after that though I doubt Texans could afford it and then been free and clear and nobody could say a word against him.

Also Watson has 110 million of his contract guaranteed, so if he blew out his shoulder as you say he’s still set for life.
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Corrosion/ me said they should have made him play out that 5th yr option.

Hopefully Cal has learned something.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I guess a better explanation: Would you be happier with the following deal: working ex: Watson is traded to Dolphins and they offer one of 2 packages, no combination of either, just one or the other:

A. 2021 1 Pick in each RD1-03-003, RD2-03-035, RD3-18-082, RD4-18-114 w/Comps 122+.

B. 2021 RD1, 2022, RD1, 2023 RD1, 2024 RD1

Me, I’m all over deal “B”.
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You can only trade 1st Rd picks through 2023.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I guess a better explanation: Would you be happier with the following deal: working ex: Watson is traded to Dolphins and they offer one of 2 packages, no combination of either, just one or the other:

A. 2021 1 Pick in each RD1-03-003, RD2-03-035, RD3-18-082, RD4-18-114 w/Comps 122+.

B. 2021 RD1, 2022, RD1, 2023 RD1, 2024 RD1

Me, I’m all over deal “B”.
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Neither.

I want the equivalent of 4 #1's & 2 #2s' as a starting point.. Two of those #1's need to come in this draft.
 
PapaL said:
When has he cried for loyalty? It sure wasn’t when he left a lung on the field in Jacksonville. We talk about it being our team but we’re not the ones out there putting in the work.
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No we’re just the ones way over paying for tickets and beer so that guys like Watson can make 160 million to play a game. I’ve busted my butt all my life and I’m guessing you have to, did anyone ever kiss your backside for it?
 
steelbtexan said:
Corrosion/ me said they should have made him play out that 5th yr option.

Hopefully Cal has learned something.
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Hopefully what he has learned is to step back and let the people he’s hired do their jobs. Something tells me Caserio has no interest in his first impression as GM be letting a player on a diva kick push him around or getting fleeced by another team.
 
steelbtexan said:
Do you actually believe if the QB's had switched sides and Mahomes was on the Texans 51-7 would've happened or that DW4 has anywhere near the god given talent Mahomes has? If so we will just have to agree to disagree.

You're probably right Mahomes window is closing after next yr because his contract will keep them from adding premium talent. If anybody can beat the odds it would take luck and not many injuries. But that would be Mahomes.
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Are you under the impression that Watson couldn’t hit Kelce or Hill like Mahomes could....in that “as safe as a mother’s womb” pocket he enjoyed in the 2nd half? Texans would be better at defending those targets with Watson as QB? C’mon man.....
 
I don't think some of you guys get it.
The culture that many of the players, including Foster and A.J. we're referring to is the warden running the show.

www.usatoday.com

Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins felt 'like I'm a slave again' after late owner's comments in 2017

Houston Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins said he was "about to sit out" a 2017 game after controversial comments from the team's late owner Robert McNair.
www.usatoday.com

AJ and Foster had come out and said that there were a lot of times when the voice of the players weren't being heard.
Too much lip service and no real beef.

That was why the players, like Watson, tweeted "things never change" (on Kirby).

The trust had been broken one too many times.
 
SnakeEyes said:
Here we go again with the weird tweets. Be a MAN and say what you mean to the staff, fans and media.

Deshaun Watson sends cryptic tweet amid reports of rift with Texans | Fox News

Deshaun Watson could be the next quarterback to be traded and while there have been numerous reports about his unhappiness with the Houston Texans, he has not expressed an opinion either way.
www.google.com www.google.com
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Leave his tweet alone.
Watson had already met with the HC and stated that he doesn't want to play for the Texans anymore.
That's clear as day.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Are you under the impression that Watson couldn’t hit Kelce or Hill like Mahomes could....in that “as safe as a mother’s womb” pocket he enjoyed in the 2nd half? Texans would be better at defending those targets with Watson as QB? C’mon man.....
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I'm saying Mahomes would've helped the Texans score 10 or so points and help control the clock for 15-20 mins that were left in that game and DW4 wouldn't have had time to bring the Chiefs back. Come On
 
76Texan said:
I don't think some of you guys get it.
The culture that many of the players, including Foster and A.J. we're referring to is the warden running the show.

www.usatoday.com

Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins felt 'like I'm a slave again' after late owner's comments in 2017

Houston Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins said he was "about to sit out" a 2017 game after controversial comments from the team's late owner Robert McNair.
www.usatoday.com

AJ and Foster had come out and said that there were a lot of times when the voice of the players weren't being heard.
Too much lip service and no real beef.

That was why the players, like Watson, tweeted "things never change" (on Kirby).

The trust had been broken one too many times.
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This goes on on every team in the NFL. These organizations doesn’t have to include the workers in the hiring of their managers. That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm saying Mahomes would've helped the Texans score 10 or so points and help control the clock for 15-20 mins that were left in that game and DW4 wouldn't have had time to bring the Chiefs back. Come On
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We just witnessed how Mahomes collapsed under the pressure of the Bucs defense. He folded real ugly like. Watson was under the same duress during the KC game. KC's defense absolutely had their way with the Texans OL.

On the other hand, Mahomes hadn't really faced that obstacle until his 2nd SB. I can probably count on one hand the times Watson didn't face this type of dilemma during his 4 year career with the Texans.....yet he's currently the NFL's career leader in completion percentage while playing for this organization. Go figure.
 
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