State of the O-line

[OptimisticTexan]

They were able to keep him in the pocket by rushing the DE's wide and made DW4 stand in the pocket and deliver balls with accuracy and anticipation.

How many times did Watson get to stand in a clean pocket and deliver passes with accuracy and anticipation?

Martin was consistently bull-rushed and with the RT allowing DE’s to sweep around at will....what pocket are you speaking of?

 

[steelbtexan]

How many times did Watson get to stand in a clean pocket and deliver passes with accuracy and anticipation?

Martin was consistently bull-rushed and with the RT allowing DE’s to sweep around at will....what pocket are you speaking of?

More often than not since the Texans were ranked 8th in pass blocking efficiency. The OL while not great wasn't as bad as some here make it out to be.

 

[dream_team]

More often than not since the Texans were ranked 8th in pass blocking efficiency. The OL while not great wasn't as bad as some here make it out to be.

I think we are discussing specifically the Bills game, not the whole season.

EDIT: disregard this comment. After reviewing previous comments, we're discussing multiple games this season. So your comment is fair.

 

[thunderkyss]

They got further year in the playoffs than they did in RS best year.

How do you mean?

And that's with RS leaving BOB with a QB he didn't want.

Funny how BO'b seems to do better with QBs he didn't want. Couldn't get Fitz to the playoffs & Hoyer embarrassed him in the Wild Card.

Brock has us in it in the 4th Qtr of a divisional game against a good Patriots team.

Oh, so Rick Smith is highly thought of now around these parts?

Not at all what I was saying. I got no love for Rick, even less for BO'b.

 

[thunderkyss]

What those statistics tell me is that first read throws might be more important than going thru the progressions. I don't know where Watson falls in this category as it was only a top 10 list.

1st read throws to me is winning before the snap. Recognizing the defense knowing what they're trying to do & executing your offense taking advantage of what you know they're trying to do.

IMO, that's what set Schaub apart. Wasn't his arm, wasn't his talent. It was between the ears.

 

[thunderkyss]

On multiple occasions, you see Watson double clutching or changing his mind because the first read was well covered.

That tells me he got it wrong.

If the plays are designed correctly it should be an, "if you see this, then you do this. If you see that, do that."

Someone broke down a play where it was plausibly explained that if Watson had started his read to his left, he would have had an easier throw. But since he started on the right, he had no choice but to wait.

& with one guy getting the Lion's share of targets, it supports an issue with Watson's thought process.

I'm not saying that is the issue or that Watson has a problem. Only that there could be an issue.

But if BO'b the GM is working on paying him upwards of $30M/yr, I doubt that's an issue.

 

[thunderkyss]

When first option is frequently one player it isn't difficult for opponents to figure out. Of course DW had to get it there and that increased #10 worth but also more and more the guy. If Kelly allows DW to "settle" on one WR, he should be fired. I think this group of WRs will be similar to his Clemson year.

If Hopkins was his "obvious" first read & he still had an all pro season, sounds like they failed to take away Watson's 1st read.

 

[steelbtexan]

How do you mean?



Funny how BO'b seems to do better with QBs he didn't want. Couldn't get Fitz to the playoffs & Hoyer embarrassed him in the Wild Card.

Brock has us in it in the 4th Qtr of a divisional game against a good Patriots team.



Not at all what I was saying. I got no love for Rick, even less for BO'b.

They advanced as far in BOB's 1st yr as GM/HC as they ever did in RS 12 yrs here. So I dont know why you like RS more than BOB as GM. Although I bet I can guess why you feel the way you do.

Well, if RS had drafted the damn QB's BOB had wanted the Texans wouldn't be in the position they're in today. (Jimmy G/Mahomes) Imagine how good the Texans would've been if RS had drafted Clowney at 1-1 and Jimmy G at 2-33. Same thing with Mahomes and DW4, he let another team jump him and lost the QB BOB wanted again. (Total ineptness)

 

[steelbtexan]

1st read throws to me is winning before the snap. Recognizing the defense knowing what they're trying to do & executing your offense taking advantage of what you know they're trying to do.

IMO, that's what set Schaub apart. Wasn't his arm, wasn't his talent. It was between the ears.

Spot On

 

[Texansballer74]

More often than not since the Texans were ranked 8th in pass blocking efficiency. The OL while not great wasn't as bad as some here make it out to be.

The Texans were 27th in pass pro. Lol at ranked 8th.

 

[steelbtexan]

If Hopkins was his "obvious" first read & he still had an all pro season, sounds like they failed to take away Watson's 1st read.

Which is why the Texans offense was so predictable. Hopefully it wont be this way anymore.

 

[steelbtexan]

The Texans were 27th in pass pro. Lol at ranked 8th.

You might want to checkout Corrosion's post history. Nah, dont bother.

 

[Texansballer74]

That tells me he got it wrong.

If the plays are designed correctly it should be an, "if you see this, then you do this. If you see that, do that."

Someone broke down a play where it was plausibly explained that if Watson had started his read to his left, he would have had an easier throw. But since he started on the right, he had no choice but to wait.

& with one guy getting the Lion's share of targets, it supports an issue with Watson's thought process.

I'm not saying that is the issue or that Watson has a problem. Only that there could be an issue.

But if BO'b the GM is working on paying him upwards of $30M/yr, I doubt that's an issue.

Or the defense switched coverage after the snap. We’ve done quite a few times to hopefully confuse the QB.

 

[Texansballer74]

You might want to checkout Corrosion's post history. Nah, dont bother.

Lol so all the other stats are false. Got it , doesn’t align with your agenda. Man if you really believe the line was good or that good. You have to either be blind or smoking on some really good cigs.

 

[steelbtexan]

Lol so all the other stats are false. Got it , doesn’t align with your agenda. Man if you really believe the line was good or that good. You have to either be blind or smoking on some really good cigs.

I dont have an agenda. I just dont think DW4's that good. He's not bad either. You cant seem to accept posters that disagree with you. Let's just agree to disagree and see how this plays out over the next 5 yrs.

Like I said I dont think the OL was as bad as some on here think. I didn't say they were great. But according to you DW4 had a good yr and Hyde rushed for over 1,000 yds. You dont get that with a bad OL.

 

[Texansballer74]

I dont have an agenda. I just dont think DW4's that good. He's not bad either. You cant seem to accept posters that disagree with you. Let's just agree to disagree and see how this plays out over the next 5 yrs.

Like I said I dont think the OL was as bad as some on here think. I didn't say they were great. But according to you DW4 had a good yr and Hyde rushed for over 1,000 yds. You dont get that with a bad OL.

This has nothing to do with Watson. That offensive line was not good period. We all know how you feel about Watson. You’ve expressed that since day one.

 

[steelbtexan]

This has nothing to do with Watson. That offensive line was not good period. We all know how you feel about Watson. You’ve expressed that since day one.

You didn't explain how DW4 could be as good as you think he is and Hyde could be a 1,000 yd rusher behind a bad OL.

BTW, back at you, we know how you've felt about DW4 since day 1.

I thought that DW4 was going to be a young Steve Young after his injury shortened rookie yr. I said as much at the time. I've changed my mind.

I guess you only want to remember what you want to remember, the question is why?

 

[Corrosion]

1st read throws to me is winning before the snap. Recognizing the defense knowing what they're trying to do & executing your offense taking advantage of what you know they're trying to do.

IMO, that's what set Schaub apart. Wasn't his arm, wasn't his talent. It was between the ears.

I think we're in full agreement here ….

 

[Corrosion]

I think it's unfair to say teams have figured out how to stop Watson and the book may be written on him. Why not the book has been written on the OL, or the offense as a whole?

This is true for EVERY QB in the league. If you can apply pressure w/o having to blitz, that QB will struggle. What I saw in the Bills game was they were able to apply pressure quickly & constantly by just rushing 4 guys.

Their scheme was about more than just getting to Watson and the number of sacks was a byproduct of their philosophical approach.
They wanted to keep him between the tackles and force him to make decisions from there - Not letting him get outside where he could put pressure on the defense with the run threat or buy time to make a throw which , lets be honest , that's where Watson is best. That's what makes Watson , his ability to get out of trouble , extend plays and put additional pressure on the defense as a result. They completely took that away - accept for One Play.

The bigger issue wasn't the pressure but the containment. If a defense can play with that much discipline / integrity , the pressure getting to him is an eventuality as the QB just doesn't have anywhere to go - he's trapped in the pocket.

We can blame whoever you want …. OL , playcaller , the guys running the routes …. but ultimately Watson's the guy making the decisions and he's got to adjust , not just stand in there thinking he can escape trouble at any time.
Basically they played his confidence in his ability to escape against him. I've said many times that his greatest attribute can also be his achilles heel.

If I were calling the plays , I'd scheme him out of the pocket more often than not on passing plays to take advantage of his ability to put pressure on the edges of the defense with loads of play action and misdirection.

 

[badboy]

If Hopkins was his "obvious" first read & he still had an all pro season, sounds like they failed to take away Watson's 1st read.

Oh come on, we've all seen the stats:

2019 15 games 2018 16 games.
Yards 1572 to 1165 last year
Yards/target 9.6 down to 7.8
TDs drop from 11 to 7..

I did not say Hopkins was "taken away" but was figured out or known. That did significantly impact Texans. Why do some of you keep twisting or saying something I did not say? This is one of reasons we cannot discuss certain Texans without going off rails. And please do not bring up Steel, I am not him.

 

[badboy]

1st read throws to me is winning before the snap. Recognizing the defense knowing what they're trying to do & executing your offense taking advantage of what you know they're trying to do.

IMO, that's what set Schaub apart. Wasn't his arm, wasn't his talent. It was between the ears.

Agree and that is what Watson often does not do. Regardless of what D is doing he forces the ball and usually to Hopkins who used his skills to often catch ball even when it negatively impacted Hop. We saw him playing closer to LOS and coming back to help DW. Certainly part of it was oline and other receiving options but Obrien has done things to change that up. Remains to be seen if changes work but also remains to be seen if Watkins changes.

 

[Corrosion]

Lol so all the other stats are false. Got it , doesn’t align with your agenda. Man if you really believe the line was good or that good. You have to either be blind or smoking on some really good cigs.

The fact that the OL had a collective win rate on pass blocking of 63% which was good enough for 8th in the league - That means they were winning their individual matchups the vast majority of the time - points to something other than their ability as the crux of the problems - be that scheme , cohesiveness as a unit , failure to adjust to stunts / blitzes or QB problems or some combination of "All of the above".

They won their "individual matchups" ….

 

[Corrosion]

How many times did Watson get to stand in a clean pocket and deliver passes with accuracy and anticipation?

Martin was consistently bull-rushed and with the RT allowing DE’s to sweep around at will....what pocket are you speaking of?

Believe it or not , The RT forcing those outside rushers to "sweep around" is often the design …. For Watson , if they over pursue in that sweep - which is the case more often than not - Its a clear lateral lane for him to escape the pocket into space.

It essentially takes that pass rusher out the back door and out of the play.

 

[Corrosion]

Man Fuller has the potential to be a beast. Unfortunately the injury bugs loves the heck out of him. And them darn butterfingers tends to get the best of him in some games. Steel asked why DW4 doesn't throw it to him in tight coverages. This is why, he doesn't have hands like Nuk and neither does Stills.

Who in the history of the league has hands like DHop? 5-6 guy maybe ?

Not having that safety blanket in Hopkins - we'll learn a lot about Watson what kind of QB he really is this season.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Believe it or not , The RT forcing those outside rushers to "sweep around" is often the design …. For Watson , if they over pursue in that sweep - which is the case more often than not - Its a clear lateral lane for him to escape the pocket into space.

It essentially takes that pass rusher out the back door and out of the play.

I was mostly replying around steels response. From what I observed, DE’s could push through the RT much in the same way they could rag doll Martin. I’m looking forward to a full season with Howard at RT. It could make a big difference.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Who in the history of the league has hands like DHop? 5-6 guy maybe ?

Not having that safety blanket in Hopkins - we'll learn a lot about Watson what kind of QB he really is this season.

.....as well as the receivers hired to replace him and the one anointed to replace him. I’m hoping for the best.

 

[otisbean]

Their scheme was about more than just getting to Watson and the number of sacks was a byproduct of their philosophical approach.
They wanted to keep him between the tackles and force him to make decisions from there - Not letting him get outside where he could put pressure on the defense with the run threat or buy time to make a throw which , lets be honest , that's where Watson is best. That's what makes Watson , his ability to get out of trouble , extend plays and put additional pressure on the defense as a result. They completely took that away - accept for One Play.

The bigger issue wasn't the pressure but the containment. If a defense can play with that much discipline / integrity , the pressure getting to him is an eventuality as the QB just doesn't have anywhere to go - he's trapped in the pocket.

We can blame whoever you want …. OL , playcaller , the guys running the routes …. but ultimately Watson's the guy making the decisions and he's got to adjust , not just stand in there thinking he can escape trouble at any time.
Basically they played his confidence in his ability to escape against him. I've said many times that his greatest attribute can also be his achilles heel.

If I were calling the plays , I'd scheme him out of the pocket more often than not on passing plays to take advantage of his ability to put pressure on the edges of the defense with loads of play action and misdirection.

This is what I want to see as well and one of my chief frustrations with OB as a play caller. Once you have an idea of what a defense wants to do you should have a counter punch so to speak. To my eye, I didn’t always see that week to week

 

[otisbean]

The fact that the OL had a collective win rate on pass blocking of 63% which was good enough for 8th in the league - That means they were winning their individual matchups the vast majority of the time - points to something other than their ability as the crux of the problems - be that scheme , cohesiveness as a unit , failure to adjust to stunts / blitzes or QB problems or some combination of "All of the above".

They won their "individual matchups" ….

Once you posted the stat on ”win rate” and us ranking 8th, which was surprising to me because I don‘t feel like it matched what I saw during the year, I did some investigating. The win rate stat means the OLman held their block for 2.5 seconds, which constitutes a ”win”. Not surprisingly, most of the playoff teams scored well on this stat. However, a couple things occurred to me while reading the articles on found on this stat.

First, there a context issue here. 2.5 seconds is plenty of time for a quick pass like a slant, hitch, quick out ect... But it seems potentially insufficient for deeper routes such as a 15 yd out, deep crossing route, post ect. We all know that we throW the ball down the field often.

Second, holding a block for 2.5 seconds can look completely different. In one instance a lineman could stonewall a pass rusher taking him completely out of the play or a lineman could get pushed back into the pocket during that same 2.5 seconds. The second scenario would technically be a win but I guarantee you it would have a negative effect on the QB. I remember this second scenario happening with Fulton and Clark quite a bit

Then I started looking at QBs average time to throw. In 2019 DW averaged 2.82. For context here are some of the other top QBs and their times

Brady 2.75
Rogers 2.88
Tannehil 2.9
Wilson 2.85
Mahomes 2.82
Brees 2.57
Garrapolo 2.65
Jackson 2.92

the complete list

NGS | NFL Next Gen Stats

NFL’s Next Gen Stats captures real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Discover Next Gen Stats News, Charts, and Statistics.

nextgenstats.nfl.com

I find it interesting that the stats guys consider 2.5 seconds a win when the majority of the top QBs are around 2.8. I wonder how our OL would rank if the metric were changed to 2.8, I have a suspicion would drop quite a bit

I think you hit the nail on the head at the end of your post when you mentioned the scheme. I’ve heard Wade Smith on 610 criticize our pass blocking scheme multiple times over the past season. One thing he said that I found interesting, Smith mentioned during his time with the Texans they were multiple times where the line coach would want to block something a certain way and Smith said Meyers would put the kibosh on it saying it would never work. When you look at our OL would dont really have a veteran leader, someone that could fill Meyers role and challenge the coaching staff. I think Tunsil could be that guy but last season he was a new addition

As a side note, I also think our backs and TEs need to improve in pass pro as well. Miller was awesome in this role but we didn’t have him last year. I remember being thrilled that they got rid of Griffin last year as he blew multiple blocks that almost got DW killed in 18

 

[Texansballer74]

The fact that the OL had a collective win rate on pass blocking of 63% which was good enough for 8th in the league - That means they were winning their individual matchups the vast majority of the time - points to something other than their ability as the crux of the problems - be that scheme , cohesiveness as a unit , failure to adjust to stunts / blitzes or QB problems or some combination of "All of the above".

They won their "individual matchups" ….

Man I’m talking about overall. You’re talking about one entity. When you look at the entire picture, they were horrible. A three to four man rush shouldn’t win as often against what you believe to be ranked 8th. The only game that line performed formidable was against the Falcons.

 

[steelbtexan]

Man Fuller has the potential to be a beast. Unfortunately the injury bugs loves the heck out of him. And them darn butterfingers tends to get the best of him in some games. Steel asked why DW4 doesn't throw it to him in tight coverages. This is why, he doesn't have hands like Nuk and neither does Stills.

Well he's going to have to throw it to those guys now.

 

[Texansballer74]

Well he's going to have to throw it to those guys now.

Lol I didn't know that.

 

[steelbtexan]

Lol I didn't know that.

This is part of the growth that I'm talking abou t that DW4 has to do. Can he do it is the question.

 

[Texansballer74]

 

[KarlK]

The Texans were 27th in pass pro. Lol at ranked 8th.

As has been pointed out to you and predictably, you chose to ignore since it paints your hero in a little bit of a bad light, but the 27 pass pro ranking was really nothing more than a sacks allowed ranking (if you wouldve actually taken the time to click on the link). Which objective people on here (read: not you) know was hugely impacted by Watson’s slow decision making.

The 8th ranking is a much more in depth and superior evaluation.

 

[Texansballer74]

As has been pointed out to you and predictably, you chose to ignore since it paints your hero in a little bit of a bad light, but the 27 pass pro ranking was really nothing more than a sacks allowed ranking (if you wouldve actually taken the time to click on the link). Which objective people on here (read: not you) know was hugely impacted by Watson’s slow decision making.

The 8th ranking is a much more in depth and superior evaluation.

Wrong again. This is yall way of cherry picking and trying to use a stat to prove your point. I mainly go off of the eye test. And I don't get two F's what any of these stats say. What I've seen for the past 6 years is terrible offensive line play.

 

[KarlK]

Wrong again. This is yall way of cherry picking and trying to use a stat to prove your point. I mainly go off of the eye test. And I don't get two F's what any of these stats say. What I've seen for the past 6 years is terrible offensive line play.

Which evaluation should we go with: the “eye test” of some homer on a messageboard

Or

Statistically driven analysis by an objective 3rd party company who evaluate and diagnose football, for a living.

Thanks for the laugh guy. You continue to impress.

 

[Texansballer74]

Which evaluation should we go with: the “eye test” of some homer on a messageboard

Or

Statistically driven analysis by an objective 3rd party company who evaluate and diagnose football, for a living.

Thanks for the laugh guy. You continue to impress.

Again you're right , moving right along.

 

[Lucky]

but the 27 pass pro ranking was really nothing more than a sacks allowed ranking

The 8th ranking is a much more in depth and superior evaluation.

Which evaluation should we go with: the “eye test” of some homer on a messageboard

So what's the algorithm used for the #8 ranking?

 

[badboy]

Once you posted the stat on ”win rate” and us ranking 8th, which was surprising to me because I don‘t feel like it matched what I saw during the year, I did some investigating. The win rate stat means the OLman held their block for 2.5 seconds, which constitutes a ”win”. Not surprisingly, most of the playoff teams scored well on this stat. However, a couple things occurred to me while reading the articles on found on this stat.

First, there a context issue here. 2.5 seconds is plenty of time for a quick pass like a slant, hitch, quick out ect... But it seems potentially insufficient for deeper routes such as a 15 yd out, deep crossing route, post ect. We all know that we throW the ball down the field often.

Second, holding a block for 2.5 seconds can look completely different. In one instance a lineman could stonewall a pass rusher taking him completely out of the play or a lineman could get pushed back into the pocket during that same 2.5 seconds. The second scenario would technically be a win but I guarantee you it would have a negative effect on the QB. I remember this second scenario happening with Fulton and Clark quite a bit

Then I started looking at QBs average time to throw. In 2019 DW averaged 2.82. For context here are some of the other top QBs and their times

Brady 2.75
Rogers 2.88
Tannehil 2.9
Wilson 2.85
Mahomes 2.82
Brees 2.57
Garrapolo 2.65
Jackson 2.92

the complete list

NGS | NFL Next Gen Stats

NFL’s Next Gen Stats captures real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Discover Next Gen Stats News, Charts, and Statistics.

nextgenstats.nfl.com

I find it interesting that the stats guys consider 2.5 seconds a win when the majority of the top QBs are around 2.8. I wonder how our OL would rank if the metric were changed to 2.8, I have a suspicion would drop quite a bit

I think you hit the nail on the head at the end of your post when you mentioned the scheme. I’ve heard Wade Smith on 610 criticize our pass blocking scheme multiple times over the past season. One thing he said that I found interesting, Smith mentioned during his time with the Texans they were multiple times where the line coach would want to block something a certain way and Smith said Meyers would put the kibosh on it saying it would never work. When you look at our OL would dont really have a veteran leader, someone that could fill Meyers role and challenge the coaching staff. I think Tunsil could be that guy but last season he was a new addition

As a side note, I also think our backs and TEs need to improve in pass pro as well. Miller was awesome in this role but we didn’t have him last year. I remember being thrilled that they got rid of Griffin last year as he blew multiple blocks that almost got DW killed in 18

Perhaps Obrien sees Martin developing into a role such as Myers had. That and hope Martin and Watson also have a bond. That could be part of why Martin got contract that no one saw coming?

 

[KarlK]

So what's the algorithm used for the #8 ranking?

It says in the article:

NFL pass-blocking, pass-rushing rankings: 2019 PBWR, PRWR leaderboard

ESPN Analytics created a new way to measure pass blocking and pass-rushing. Here are the leaders for the 2019 season.

www.espn.com

Certainly much more in depth than "the eye test" or ranking a team strictly based on sacks allowed.

 

[Earl34]

Perhaps Obrien sees Martin developing into a role such as Myers had. That and hope Martin and Watson also have a bond. That could be part of why Martin got contract that no one saw coming?

To be fair. Martin does a great job hoisting Watson in the air after TDs and big plays.

 

[Texansballer74]

It says in the article:

NFL pass-blocking, pass-rushing rankings: 2019 PBWR, PRWR leaderboard

ESPN Analytics created a new way to measure pass blocking and pass-rushing. Here are the leaders for the 2019 season.

www.espn.com

Certainly much more in depth than "the eye test" or ranking a team strictly based on sacks allowed.

If you go back and read joker I said you have to look at the entire darn picture. And when you do that, our offensive line was not good period. Especially in pass pro. Like I said stop cherry picking skit in a attempt to crap on Watson. The eye test will tell you how bad that line was.

 

[Texansballer74]

 

[Earl34]

If you go back and read joker I said you have to look at the entire darn picture. And when you do that offensive line was not good period. Especially in pass pro. Like I said stop cherry picking skit in a attempt to crap on Watson. The eye test will tell you how bad that line was.

Sorry. I've watched OL back pedaling faster than DBs and clog the pocket. You watch any Texans' game and you can count to three or even before Watson plants to throw a pass and he is under pressure. I cannot take any stat that has the Texans as a top 10 OL seriously. Especially when that stat is an outlier.

In regards to your eye test comment, here is a good article showing the flaws in this PBWR stat. It's hilariously titled, "When advanced stats don't pass the eye test". Numbers never lie. But sometimes they don’t tell you what you think they do.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2...n-t-pass-the-eye-test-the-curious-case-of-the

 

[Texansballer74]

 

[Lucky]

It says in the article:

NFL pass-blocking, pass-rushing rankings: 2019 PBWR, PRWR leaderboard

ESPN Analytics created a new way to measure pass blocking and pass-rushing. Here are the leaders for the 2019 season.

www.espn.com

Certainly much more in depth than "the eye test" or ranking a team strictly based on sacks allowed.

I couldn't find the individual numbers for the O-line. Is it in the pay section? Just want to see the dropoff from Howard to the backup RTs post Howards injury. Because that had a dramatic effect on the line.

 

[Texansballer74]

Sorry. I've watched OL back pedaling faster than DBs and clog the pocket. You watch any Texans' game and you can count to three or even before Watson plants to throw a pass and he is under pressure. I cannot take any stat that has the Texans as a top 10 OL seriously. Especially when that stat is an outlier.

In regards to your eye test comment, here is a good article showing the flaws in this PBWR stat. It's hilariously titled, "When advanced stats don't pass the eye test". Numbers never lie. But sometimes they don’t tell you what you think they do.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2...n-t-pass-the-eye-test-the-curious-case-of-the

Earl me either but you know as well as a I know the constant theme around here from a select few. My thing is under this regime our offensive line has always hovered around the bottom. It’s one excuse after another with these guys.

 

[Earl34]

Once you posted the stat on ”win rate” and us ranking 8th, which was surprising to me because I don‘t feel like it matched what I saw during the year, I did some investigating. The win rate stat means the OLman held their block for 2.5 seconds, which constitutes a ”win”. Not surprisingly, most of the playoff teams scored well on this stat. However, a couple things occurred to me while reading the articles on found on this stat.

First, there a context issue here. 2.5 seconds is plenty of time for a quick pass like a slant, hitch, quick out ect... But it seems potentially insufficient for deeper routes such as a 15 yd out, deep crossing route, post ect. We all know that we throW the ball down the field often.

Second, holding a block for 2.5 seconds can look completely different. In one instance a lineman could stonewall a pass rusher taking him completely out of the play or a lineman could get pushed back into the pocket during that same 2.5 seconds. The second scenario would technically be a win but I guarantee you it would have a negative effect on the QB. I remember this second scenario happening with Fulton and Clark quite a bit

Then I started looking at QBs average time to throw. In 2019 DW averaged 2.82. For context here are some of the other top QBs and their times

Brady 2.75
Rogers 2.88
Tannehil 2.9
Wilson 2.85
Mahomes 2.82
Brees 2.57
Garrapolo 2.65
Jackson 2.92

the complete list

NGS | NFL Next Gen Stats

NFL’s Next Gen Stats captures real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Discover Next Gen Stats News, Charts, and Statistics.

nextgenstats.nfl.com

I find it interesting that the stats guys consider 2.5 seconds a win when the majority of the top QBs are around 2.8. I wonder how our OL would rank if the metric were changed to 2.8, I have a suspicion would drop quite a bit

To your point, regarding the 2.5 seconds.

"PBWR assumes that all pass plays need the same amount of time. In the eyes of this metric a snap and throw WR screen and a seven step drop with a play fake both require 2.5 seconds of pass protection to be successful. That is insane. And that is the fatal flaw of PBWR. "

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2...n-t-pass-the-eye-test-the-curious-case-of-the

 

[Texansballer74]

To your point, regarding the 2.5 seconds.

"PBWR assumes that all pass plays need the same amount of time. In the eyes of this metric a snap and throw WR screen and a seven step drop with a play fake both require 2.5 seconds of pass protection to be successful. That is insane. And that is the fatal flaw of PBWR. "

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2...n-t-pass-the-eye-test-the-curious-case-of-the

The writer makes a very solid point here below lol


pointing to PBWR. My point is, when you draw conclusion based on flawed data, you end up with flawed conclusions.

 

[badboy]

To be fair. Martin does a great job hoisting Watson in the air after TDs and big plays.

View attachment 6266
View attachment 6267

You do know that is the Heimlich, correct? It is practised in order if Watson's lung is knocked loose, this will help him spit it out and keep playing.