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Welcome to the Texans, OT Laremy Tunsil.

I would find it hard to even rate Stanley due to the offensive scheme of the Ravens. How many times are DL pinning ears back against that offense? Gives the OT a huge advantage versus our predictable crap. Tunsil is plenty good, and you don't have to be the best to get paid like it. The latest signing of a "good" LT gets paid and usually sets a new bar every year. I am glad DW4 does not have two turnstiles to deal with every snap now. I think he can only really develop when he trusts his OL, and these guys need to now play together and be healthy. Replace Devlin please..
 
McClain: Texans better off with Laremy Tunsil instead of No. 26 pick
John McClain , Houston Chronicle Feb. 15, 2020 Updated: Feb. 15, 2020 6:52 p.m.

The Texans are the winners so far in the Laremy Tunsil trade with the Dolphins.

While opponents search for quarterbacks and left tackles in the draft and free agency, the Texans are no longer desperate to fill those positions.

In Deshaun Watson and Laremy Tunsil, the Texans have two of the NFL’s best players at their positions. Both were voted to the Pro Bowl last season.

Former general manager Rick Smith traded up in the first round of the 2017 draft to select Watson. Bill O’Brien acquired Tunsil in a highly publicized and heavily scrutinized trade with Miami before last season.

With the scouting combine coming at the end of the month, this is a good time to revisit the Tunsil trade.

Trader Bill sent a first-round draft choice in 2020, first- and second-round picks in 2021, offensive tackle Julien Davenport and cornerback Johnson Bademosi to the Dolphins for Tunsil.

In addition to Tunsil, the Texans got receiver Kenny Stills, a fourth-round pick in 2020 and a sixth-round selection in 2021.
Tunsil, 25, is coming off his fourth season — his best in the NFL. He’s expected to sign an extension that may make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in history.

Despite having a league-high 14 false-start penalties, Tunsil filled the biggest hole on the Texans’ offense. He was penalized once for holding and allowed pressure on 29 of his 694 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. PFF said he allowed three sacks, and his 88.2 pass blocking grade was third in the league.

If O’Brien had not made the Tunsil trade, Davenport might have been the starter at left tackle again. Stills was a valuable addition, contributing 40 catches for 561 yards and four touchdowns as the third receiver.

If O’Brien had not made the Tunsil trade, the Texans would have entered this year’s draft with the 26th overall pick. They still would have been desperate for an offensive tackle.

This draft is deep at that position, but through this part of the evaluation process, there’s no consensus prospect as the best left tackle. And there’s no set order on the five who are projected to go in the first round.

And, perhaps most significantly, no tackle prospect in this draft will be rated as highly as Tunsil was in 2016. He was projected as a top-five pick until a video surfaced of him smoking a bong at Ole Miss, causing him to drop to the Dolphins at 13. PFF had Tunsil as its highest-rated tackle coming out of college over the last five years.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
Then there's old man Jason Peters, 13 games, 3 sacks, 9 penalties, 29 total pressures.
And I'm pretty sure this big guy is left on an island quite often.
 
And of course 5-time All-Pro Trent Williams who had not given up a sack since 2016 and very few pressures allowed for several years.
But he held out last year.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Of course, Stanley was not available to the Texans. Had Tunsil had the benefit of a full offseason and preseason with the Texans (he was traded Aug 31), I have no doubt that his 2019 performance would have been enhanced, and likely would have matched or exceeded Stanley.
View attachment 5652
Click to expand...
We will see won’t we? Body language is everything to me and Tunsil, until proven otherwise is a sloth. For the picks and money it will take is not worth it but butt chin will convince daddy bucks he is.
 
Riley Reif, 15 games, 4.25 sacks, 7 penalties, and just 25 overall pressures.

I don't know which guy I'd take until I study the film, but Reif has been doing it for awhile now, and Kirk Cousins has little escapability when compared to DW4.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
McClain: Texans better off with Laremy Tunsil instead of No. 26 pick
John McClain , Houston Chronicle Feb. 15, 2020 Updated: Feb. 15, 2020 6:52 p.m.

The Texans are the winners so far in the Laremy Tunsil trade with the Dolphins.

While opponents search for quarterbacks and left tackles in the draft and free agency, the Texans are no longer desperate to fill those positions.

In Deshaun Watson and Laremy Tunsil, the Texans have two of the NFL’s best players at their positions. Both were voted to the Pro Bowl last season.

Former general manager Rick Smith traded up in the first round of the 2017 draft to select Watson. Bill O’Brien acquired Tunsil in a highly publicized and heavily scrutinized trade with Miami before last season.

With the scouting combine coming at the end of the month, this is a good time to revisit the Tunsil trade.

Trader Bill sent a first-round draft choice in 2020, first- and second-round picks in 2021, offensive tackle Julien Davenport and cornerback Johnson Bademosi to the Dolphins for Tunsil.

In addition to Tunsil, the Texans got receiver Kenny Stills, a fourth-round pick in 2020 and a sixth-round selection in 2021.
Tunsil, 25, is coming off his fourth season — his best in the NFL. He’s expected to sign an extension that may make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in history.

Despite having a league-high 14 false-start penalties, Tunsil filled the biggest hole on the Texans’ offense. He was penalized once for holding and allowed pressure on 29 of his 694 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. PFF said he allowed three sacks, and his 88.2 pass blocking grade was third in the league.

If O’Brien had not made the Tunsil trade, Davenport might have been the starter at left tackle again. Stills was a valuable addition, contributing 40 catches for 561 yards and four touchdowns as the third receiver.

If O’Brien had not made the Tunsil trade, the Texans would have entered this year’s draft with the 26th overall pick. They still would have been desperate for an offensive tackle.

This draft is deep at that position, but through this part of the evaluation process, there’s no consensus prospect as the best left tackle. And there’s no set order on the five who are projected to go in the first round.

And, perhaps most significantly, no tackle prospect in this draft will be rated as highly as Tunsil was in 2016. He was projected as a top-five pick until a video surfaced of him smoking a bong at Ole Miss, causing him to drop to the Dolphins at 13. PFF had Tunsil as its highest-rated tackle coming out of college over the last five years.

THE REST OF THE STORY
Click to expand...

Great point McClain, unfortunately we also traded next year's second and first and failed to extend him, giving him massive leverage
 
TheKDog said:
Great point McClain, unfortunately we also traded next year's second and first and failed to extend him, giving him massive leverage
Click to expand...
What would Houston have had to offer tunsil To convince him to sign before the new CBA?
 
Tunsil is the Texans LT and getting another one better than him probably isn't even in play until the 2022 NFL Draft. Pay him his money for 2020 and then get this man a make him happy contract in 2021 and be done with this situation.....versus allowing it to fester into a Duane Brown situation. Scharping and Tunsil are going to make a solid left side in the upcoming seasons.
 
Ole' pesky revisionist history...some of y'all are hilarious.

I seem to recall that the majority of the posts I read prior to the season was about how we had to get an LT at any cost to save Watson's career. I was one of those people. We can create cap space, but if Watson gets a slew of serious injuries or one major injury, he will be done, we will have no QB and we're right back to square one.

Our organization made mistakes that led to having to over pay at LT. Assuming we resign him (they will) and along with Scharping, Martin and Howard, we are pretty set for many years at OL. Those 4 players, plus one, is good enough to preserve Watson for many seasons as long as he gets rid of the ball.

You (rightfully) can say that we gave up too many picks, are going to pay too much for Tunsil, etc. etc. but this doesn't change the fact that we are in a great position going forward on the OL. I believe that we will have a good, maybe great line for many years to come.

Argue about how many picks we gave up, how we're going to overpay to resign players, but they fixed the line for the most part and barring injury, they will only continue to get better.

Y'all can get back to arguing. I swear some of you love misery.
 
House of Pain said:
Y'all can get back to arguing. I swear some of you love misery.
Click to expand...

I'd actually argue that you love the misery

Here you are trying to convince yourself that one of the dumbest people in the NFL football didn't mortgage a ton of the team's future for a guy he'll also have to over pay after he also failed horribly in building the offensive line, but his logic as a GM is all of a sudden without question? Mistake #1 as a Texan fan. Trying to make yourself believe that a constant failure as a team leader and HC isn't making foolish moves to hurt this team still and that this one move is going to make them better every year as you just put it is "asking for the misery." I know that this team isn't going to win squat with O'Brien, and I also saw how foolish that move was and how selfish it was on his part "just to save his job" and what do you know at the end of the year he got an extension to be the General Manager even further even after humiliating himself in the playoffs again. You're holding out hope and strong faith that this disaster that Cal McNair brought onto the fans is going to somehow work itself out and correct its path. The signs have shown again and again it is not. You're going to have to keep dealing with the rejection of OB's decisions and why they are not measuring up. I think that is a much stronger misery to absorb.
 
House of Pain said:
Ole' pesky revisionist history...some of y'all are hilarious.

I seem to recall that the majority of the posts I read prior to the season was about how we had to get an LT at any cost to save Watson's career. I was one of those people. We can create cap space, but if Watson gets a slew of serious injuries or one major injury, he will be done, we will have no QB and we're right back to square one.

Our organization made mistakes that led to having to over pay at LT. Assuming we resign him (they will) and along with Scharping, Martin and Howard, we are pretty set for many years at OL. Those 4 players, plus one, is good enough to preserve Watson for many seasons as long as he gets rid of the ball.

You (rightfully) can say that we gave up too many picks, are going to pay too much for Tunsil, etc. etc. but this doesn't change the fact that we are in a great position going forward on the OL. I believe that we will have a good, maybe great line for many years to come.

Argue about how many picks we gave up, how we're going to overpay to resign players, but they fixed the line for the most part and barring injury, they will only continue to get better.

Y'all can get back to arguing. I swear some of you love misery.
Click to expand...
I was not arguing the fact that they needed to bring in Tunsil.
I'm just countering the argument that Tunsil is a top 5 LT.
I'm not even sure I'd put him in the top 10; probably somewhere between 12-15.

And no, I don't believe that this Oline has been fixed.
It was only because of DW4 that it doesn't look terrible, just bad.

2019 NFL OFFENSIVE LINE RATINGS | Football Outsiders

Regular season totals, playoffs not included Revised as of 3/29/2020 Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
www.footballoutsiders.com www.footballoutsiders.com

They should get better (knock on wood for injuries), but nowadays - after years of adding resources to the offense, that side of the ball won't be able to cover for the depleted D.
You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
It's always the case of "what's done is done", but it's also the case that "it's why we fans BEECH about it". :)
 
House of Pain said:
Ole' pesky revisionist history...some of y'all are hilarious.

I seem to recall that the majority of the posts I read prior to the season was about how we had to get an LT at any cost to save Watson's career. I was one of those people. We can create cap space, but if Watson gets a slew of serious injuries or one major injury, he will be done, we will have no QB and we're right back to square one.

Our organization made mistakes that led to having to over pay at LT. Assuming we resign him (they will) and along with Scharping, Martin and Howard, we are pretty set for many years at OL. Those 4 players, plus one, is good enough to preserve Watson for many seasons as long as he gets rid of the ball.

You (rightfully) can say that we gave up too many picks, are going to pay too much for Tunsil, etc. etc. but this doesn't change the fact that we are in a great position going forward on the OL. I believe that we will have a good, maybe great line for many years to come.

Argue about how many picks we gave up, how we're going to overpay to resign players, but they fixed the line for the most part and barring injury, they will only continue to get better.

Y'all can get back to arguing. I swear some of you love misery.
Click to expand...

You can't win with a good OL and crap at multiple other positions. The goal is to build a contender not to win the offensive line pff ranking awards
 
76Texan said:
I was not arguing the fact that they needed to bring in Tunsil.
I'm just countering the argument that Tunsil is a top 5 LT.
I'm not even sure I'd put him in the top 10; probably somewhere between 12-15.

And no, I don't believe that this Oline has been fixed.
It was only because of DW4 that it doesn't look terrible, just bad.

2019 NFL OFFENSIVE LINE RATINGS | Football Outsiders

Regular season totals, playoffs not included Revised as of 3/29/2020 Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
www.footballoutsiders.com www.footballoutsiders.com

They should get better (knock on wood for injuries), but nowadays - after years of adding resources to the offense, that side of the ball won't be able to cover for the depleted D.
You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
It's always the case of "what's done is done", but it's also the case that "it's why we fans BEECH about it". :)
Click to expand...

I wanted to see what DW4 would look like with a competent ol. I've seen now and I wasn't impressed.

I'm of the belief that a team should be built through a combination of fa/draft/trades. Atleast that's how the good teams do it. I also believe if you're a strong org you could sit out a draft and be ok if you nailed the next draft.
 
beerlover said:
Devlin still the OL coach?
Click to expand...

There's the issue and BOB'S greatest fault, even more than his play calling which has been hamstrung be his QB's limitations. I mean do do you really think BOB'S telling DW4 to pull the ball every time on the RPO's and even if he did do you think DW4 would do this almost every time
 
steelbtexan said:
I wanted to see what DW4 would look like with a competent ol. I've seen now and I wasn't impressed.
Click to expand...

Wow. With Howard missing time, you really think this was a competent OL with Fulton, Clark and Johnson on the right side?

I guess Devlin was alternating Johnson and Clark for fun.
 
TheKDog said:
You can't win with a good OL and crap at multiple other positions. The goal is to build a contender not to win the offensive line pff ranking awards
Click to expand...

exactly. Look at what Dallas has done. What has that won them? Shoot I could say Watson was BETTER with the less invested line since the rumor is he regressed after putting in all that capital to bolster the unit. Didnt seem to help. Only gutted future drafts and allowed Tunsil to name his price. Would have been nice to go get a lock down corner, or edge guy that would have made the defense relevant enough to stop a 51-7 run. Two 1st round picks could have netted you TWO PROVEN starters on defense (NO RECLAMATION PROJECTS!!) easily or given you the ability to move up for a blue chipper.
 
Earl34 said:
Wow. With Howard missing time, you really think this was a competent OL with Fulton, Clark and Johnson on the right side?

I guess Devlin was alternating Johnson and Clark for fun.
Click to expand...

I think it was OK.

They need to upgrade with a OG that can also play RT in case somebody gets hurt. They should be able to get a guy like Runyan in the 5th that would fill this bill.

Devlin isn't very good at his job.
 
Uncle Rico said:
exactly. Look at what Dallas has done. What has that won them? Shoot I could say Watson was BETTER with the less invested line since the rumor is he regressed after putting in all that capital to bolster the unit. Didnt seem to help. Only gutted future drafts and allowed Tunsil to name his price. Would have been nice to go get a lock down corner, or edge guy that would have made the defense relevant enough to stop a 51-7 run. Two 1st round picks could have netted you TWO PROVEN starters on defense (NO RECLAMATION PROJECTS!!) easily or given you the ability to move up for a blue chipper.
Click to expand...

Or if DW4/ BOB hadn't sh!t the bed 51-7 wouldn't have happened.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think it was OK.

They need to upgrade with a OG that can also play RT in case somebody gets hurt. They should be able to get a guy like Runyan in the 5th that would fill this bill.

Devlin isn't very good at his job.
Click to expand...

We can agree on Devlin.

There are too many times, the ball was snapped and within three seconds there was pressure.

I doubt you can find any ranking or metric that has the Texans’ OL ranked better than the 20th to 26th best OL.

I guess it’s an improvement from being ranked between 29th and 32nd, but it’s a far cry from competent.
 
Earl34 said:
We can agree on Devlin.

There are too many times, the ball was snapped and within three seconds there was pressure.

I doubt you can find any ranking or metric that has the Texans’ OL ranked better than the 20th to 26th best OL.

I guess it’s an improvement from being ranked between 29th and 32nd, but it’s a far cry from competent.
Click to expand...

DW4 holding the ball too long didn't help with this metric. The OL should improve as the rookies get experience.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wanted to see what DW4 would look like with a competent ol. I've seen now and I wasn't impressed.

I'm of the belief that a team should be built through a combination of fa/draft/trades. Atleast that's how the good teams do it. I also believe if you're a strong org you could sit out a draft and be ok if you nailed the next draft.
Click to expand...
Competent???

2019 NFL OFFENSIVE LINE RATINGS | Football Outsiders

Regular season totals, playoffs not included Revised as of 3/29/2020 Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
www.footballoutsiders.com www.footballoutsiders.com

www.pff.com

Ranking all 32 NFL offensive lines following the 2019 regular season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF's Ben Linsey provides the offensive line rankings following the 2019 NFL regular season.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

You call that competent?
 
Lol that oline was not freaking competent. 76 the only reason why dude is saying that is because he finally agreed to the moves. That line was only marginal better than the year before. But hey it’s easier to blame Watson for everything that went wrong. Bump the terrible inconsistent play calling/ schemes. Bump the massive amount of blown assignments from that line. Man bump the receivers running the wrong freaking routes consistently. And bump the fact that the entire offense goes to turd land when Fuller goes down.
 
Last edited:
76Texan said:
Competent???

2019 NFL OFFENSIVE LINE RATINGS | Football Outsiders

Regular season totals, playoffs not included Revised as of 3/29/2020 Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:
www.footballoutsiders.com www.footballoutsiders.com

www.pff.com

Ranking all 32 NFL offensive lines following the 2019 regular season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF's Ben Linsey provides the offensive line rankings following the 2019 NFL regular season.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

You call that competent?
Click to expand...

I would say moving up to 20 would make them competent. I also think the grades for the Buc/NYG/Panthers is a joke.

I also think they would've had a top 15 OL if Howard had stayed healthy.

With that said, Devlin needs to go. The Texans need an OL coach that can develop young talent.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Lol that oline was not freaking competent. 76 the only reason why dude is saying that is because he finally agreed to the moves. That line was only marginal better than the year before. But hey it’s easier to blame Watson for everything that went wrong. Bump the terrible inconsistent play calling/ schemes. Bump the massive amount of blown assignments from that line. Man bump the receivers running the wrong freaking routes consistently. And bump the fact that entire offense goes to turd land when Fuller goes down.
Click to expand...

I agree they added good young talent to give DW4 a chance to succeed.
 
76Texan said:
And I would think that DW4 would rather not having to perform a Houdini act if he doesn't have to.
Also, penalties have been the drive killer on many instances.
How many drives do you think a team have per game?
Click to expand...
Actual question, how many of those false start actually killed the drive-in resulted in a turnover? Perhaps I'm looking at the false starts incorrectly but I see the false starts as him being anxious to get into his block. The holding calls were him being beat. The ineligible passer down-filled may have been on The release timing of the QB. I am interested in the thoughts of anyone who wants to chime in.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would say moving up to 20 would make them competent. I also think the grades for the Buc/NYG/Panthers is a joke.

I also think they would've had a top 15 OL if Howard had stayed healthy.

With that said, Devlin needs to go. The Texans need an OL coach that can develop young talent.
Click to expand...
20th is competent?
OK, I have nothing to add.

And newsflash.
Other Olines had their shares of injury, too; you know.:)
 
badboy said:
Actual question, how many of those false start actually killed the drive-in resulted in a turnover? Perhaps I'm looking at the false starts incorrectly but I see the false starts as him being anxious to get into his block. The holding calls were him being beat. The ineligible passer down-filled may have been on The release timing of the QB. I am interested in the thoughts of anyone who wants to chime in.
Click to expand...
Did you hate Clowney for jumping off-sides?
 
badboy said:
Actual question, how many of those false start actually killed the drive-in resulted in a turnover? Perhaps I'm looking at the false starts incorrectly but I see the false starts as him being anxious to get into his block. The holding calls were him being beat. The ineligible passer down-filled may have been on The release timing of the QB. I am interested in the thoughts of anyone who wants to chime in.
Click to expand...
So, I quickly went through the play-by-play of the first 3 games.
I noted 4 false starts (by any lineman), and 2 resulted in a punt.

One was converted, but just barely.

Another one was converted near the opponent goal line.
It was a TD, luckily.
But here we see how a false start can alter the play call near the goal line.
And if we didn't convert it, we would have to settle for a FG.
 
When Tunsil (10,350,000) extension contract is completed (double above number) along with Martins new contract (8,750,000) 1st rd pick Howard (overpaid free agent Fuller (7,000,000) & Kelemente (3,593,750) you have some rookie relief for another 3 years with Howard (2,778,750) and 2 more years under control for contract, 2nd rounder Max Scharping (1,151,838).

Don't know about you but I feel ripped off with this OL poor performance grade of 22 out of 32 teams when Cal paid 12th MOST in NFL for a total expenditure of 37,954,747. When Tunsil gets new contract and 8-10 mil per year bump, Texans will be 3rd in the NFL of money spent on the OL behind only the Cowboys, 59,883,690 and Raiders, 62,873,740.

Pretty simple math and obvious to me O’Brian must replace Devlin. If he doesn’t then it’s the GM fault for players chosen and paid. However we know all to well O’Brian will not accept accountability.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think it was OK.

They need to upgrade with a OG that can also play RT in case somebody gets hurt. They should be able to get a guy like Runyan in the 5th that would fill this bill.

Devlin isn't very good at his job.
Click to expand...

According to PFF.....only competent at #20 b/c the Texans signed Tunsil. It would've been #31 otherwise......maybe even #32.
 
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