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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Clowney has been touted as the Seahawks sack leader............with 3 sacks.
Interestingly enough most articles do not bother mentioning that LB Mychel Kendricks has tied him for that many sacks (as has DE Rasheem Green)...........and essentially equaled him or bettered him in every defensive stat. Note that Kendricks has played 11 games to Clowney's 10, but even with that taken into account, they are at worst equal................with Kendricks' 2019 contract $4.5 million in contrast to Clowney's hefty contract.

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PapaL said:
Who is saying that?
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Technically Clowney is their sack leader.

3 sacks for the leader of a team is pretty pathetic.

I would say Kendricks has made as much of an impact as Clowney has and if they let Cunningham walk I would be totally on board with bringing in Kendricks. Kendricks is also a very good cover LB.
 
steelbtexan said:
Technically Clowney is their sack leader.

3 sacks for the leader of a team is pretty pathetic.

I would say Kendricks has made as much of an impact as Clowney has and if they let Cunningham walk I would be totally on board with bringing in Kendricks. Kendricks is also a very good cover LB.
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Again, who is saying that? Seems like a straw man argument.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clowney has been touted as the Seahawks sack leader............with 3 sacks.
Interestingly enough most articles do not bother mentioning that LB Mychel Kendricks has tied him for that many sacks (as has DE Rasheem Green)...........and essentially equaled him or bettered him in every defensive stat. Note that Kendricks has played 11 games to Clowney's 10, but even with that taken into account, they are at worst equal................with Kendricks' 2019 contract $4.5 million in contrast to Clowney's hefty contract.

View attachment 4980
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When we finally get to the offseason it's really gonna be interesting to see what kind of a long-term contact JDC is able to get ?
 
PapaL said:
Are you implying that a contract year franchise tagged player isn’t motivated?

The mental gymnastics around here is amazing.
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Are you implying he will dedicate himself to his craft and fulfill his potential?

At best he becomes a guy who is better than average getting by on raw physical talent, but missing many games with injuries....essentially what he has always been.

He will never seriously be in DPOY talk in the future, and not because of lack of physical traits.

The Texans screwed the pooch on this draft and could have a much different looking team today.
 
Clowney is an elite run defender and draws double teams on pass rush downs even if he doesn't get a ton of sacks. He's also disruptive in other ways, causing turnovers and getting touchdowns.

Whatever he's worth in free agency, the trade was insanely dumb
 
Texaninlild said:
Are you implying he will dedicate himself to his craft and fulfill his potential?

At best he becomes a guy who is better than average getting by on raw physical talent, but missing many games with injuries....essentially what he has always been.

He will never seriously be in DPOY talk in the future, and not because of lack of physical traits.

The Texans screwed the pooch on this draft and could have a much different looking team today.
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He may never win DPOY but I guarantee you every single OC in the league knows when he’s coming to town and attempts to plans accordingly. That alone is worth more than the guy we traded for, the dude we saved from being cut, and the draft pick we would have gotten regardless.
 
PapaL said:
He may never win DPOY but I guarantee you every single OC in the league knows when he’s coming to town and attempts to plans accordingly. That alone is worth more than the guy we traded for, the dude we saved from being cut, and the draft pick we would have gotten regardless.
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The guys we got are barely even playing
 
TheKDog said:
The guys we got are barely even playing
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Conley's playing

and pretty well I might add.

BTW, According to PFT it looks like Clowney may mis the rest of the season and have core muscle surgery. If he decides to tough it out his performance will be compromised.
 
SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT THE WISDOM OF REUPPING JDC IN SEATTLE ?
Which is to say television broadcasts distort the truth about players of name value to appeal to the lowest common denominator fan, but if Clowney were really supposed to be Seattle’s best pass rusher and one of Seattle’s best defenders, I was not impressed. This defense looked beyond repair. If the weakest link were not the secondary, it was surely the pass rush.

Re-signing Clowney in the offseason seemed like it would be a terrible blunder, should Seattle make such a commitment. As we’ve seen in Chicago, even a presumptive hall of fame defensive end like Khalil Mack struggles to provide value when he’s pinching the cap. Starting next season, Mack is schedule to account for 26 million dollars of Chicago’s cap and will cost roughly that until 2024. Too damn much, simply too damn much, and Mack is head-and-shoulders above Clowney in every measure of performance. That doesn’t even factor in that Clowney underwent microfracture knee surgery. Of which orthopedic surgeon Dr. Kevin Stone wrote:
The data from multiple studies in athletes shows that the repair tissue breaks down over a few years leaving the exposed bone to cause more pain. Microfracture fails because the body loses the race between durable healing and repeated injury from weight-bearing alone.”
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https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/20973311/seahawks-jadeveon-clowney-49ers
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Yep C&D has talked to us about this for some time now.
 
Again the extension is a different issue. He was traded for negative value instead of playing out one more year here
 
PapaL said:
He may never win DPOY but I guarantee you every single OC in the league knows when he’s coming to town and attempts to plans accordingly. That alone is worth more than the guy we traded for, the dude we saved from being cut, and the draft pick we would have gotten regardless.
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Yes, we could have gotten more for Clowney had we pulled the trigger at the end of lat season, but the organization fumbled that transaction all the way until the regular season boxing themselves in. I will put that on Gaine and say BoB got what he could given the timing. Martin is making his presence felt in the pass rush and Mingo is serviceable as depth.
 
Clowney: I didn't ask to be traded or for more money

Jadeveon Clowney's presence vital in Seahawks' resurgence

www.nfl.com

To say Carroll is pleased with the trade is like declaring that Patriots coach Bill Belichick detests postgame handshakes with victorious former assistants.

"He's a wild man out there," Carroll said of Clowney nearly an hour after Monday's game, at the entrance to a cleared-out Seahawks locker room. "If you're [an opposing quarterback], you don't know when he's gonna cut loose and get in your mug, and he's making a huge difference. I'm really proud of what this team is all about -- we should've done this last year. We're getting there, and we get a little better here before all is said and done."
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DBCooper said:
Clowney: I didn't ask to be traded or for more money

Jadeveon Clowney's presence vital in Seahawks' resurgence

www.nfl.com
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He can probably say that & not be lying...b/c it was probably his agent doing all the asking. Its also interesting he's saying be paid "more" money. We've heard from the Texans that we did offer him a long term deal.......and he didn't sign it. So if he didn't ask for "more money" as he said in the article, what was he asking for that caused him to reportedly turn down what we offered him?
 
Heh why does it seem the theme here is to try and tear Clowney apart as if he sought to leave here or was a horrible teammate? Never heard any rumbling from his camp about leaving other than trying to get a contract done like every single NFL player attempts to do. It's their job after all and how they take care of their families. It's doubtful anyone here would do any differently. He didn't do or say anything disparaging about Houston so really no need to find some way to tear him down.

As for his total number of sacks...come on fellas. It was no different here. Did he produce eye widening numbers when he wore a Texans uniform? No. But did we know his effect on the game? Yes. Just because he plays elsewhere hasn't changed the fact. I've caught a few of their games and Clowney's impact on the field was obvious as hell for any bothering to watch.

I mean we sit here and bring up he only has 3 sacks (again, as if he was getting high numbers in that area here). Is that truly the entire picture? Let's look at the league leader in sacks this season, Shaquil Barrett. Having a great season with his 14.5 sacks. With that he has 10 QB knockdowns and 36 QB pressures and 11 hurries. Now Clowney...only 3 sacks yet has 27 QB pressures, 14 hurries and 9 knockdowns. In other words, yes, he is having an impact and getting into the backfield. And no, despite other players on the Hawks having 3 sacks none are even close to him in pressure. He IS their pass rush. He has double the pressures of anyone on the team and the only one in double digits in hurries.

So really no point in acting as if he isn't producing over there. Add to the fact of his sound run defense...as long as he isn't pinching inside too much like he did his last season here...then he's been performing for them. Which is fine. Who cares? He's not a Texan anymore. Wish him the best and move along. Hopefully we line up against him this year since that means we're there in the very end.
 
ObsiWan said:
he gone.
let this go with him
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Nope, never. History is where the fans reside. Celebrate it, relive it, still hurt from it (35-3), become cynical because of it (again 35-3), but since fans have absolutely no control over the current product or the direction of their team, history is what belongs to the fans. That's why they hang banners and retire numbers and have Ring of Honors in stadiums. Celebrate the history.

Just like fans of Star Wars (and other entertainment franchises), sorting through the ashes of history is part of fun. :)

Plus, what ultimately defines heroes and zeroes is their historical impact, good and/or bad. O'Brien will be judged by his entire body of work as Texans HC, which will obviously include both drafting and trading away JDC.

As a Texans fan, I'm hoping that it ultimately proves to be the right move in hindsight.
 
deucetx said:
Heh why does it seem the theme here is to try and tear Clowney apart as if he sought to leave here or was a horrible teammate
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Have you noticed those who make it seem as though the Texans are the worst franchise in the league because they decided it was time to part ways?

I'm one of those that was happy we drafted Clowney & not Bridgewater 1.1

I wanted him to be a great & elite player. I wanted him to be very successful. I wanted the lack of motivation thing to have been wrong, the taking off his last year of collegiate play to be a misunderstanding. The injury prone thing to be a figment of someone's imagination.

Sure, I'd be happy if he were a Texans today. But he's not. I wish they would have got more for him than they did, but they didn't.

I agree with you, he's gone. We should move on. But let's not act like those tearing him down are monopolizing the conversation.
 
PapaL said:
If you want to move on, why do you keep coming back to the thread about the guy you want to move on from?

We listened to the Rick Smith crap for YEARS in ALL threads. Let these people be.
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One is very good at his job. (Not great)

The other was inept at his job.

These 2 things aren't equal.
 
@benbbaldwin: Jadeveon Clowney is top 10 Pass Rush Win Rate (ESPN), Total Pass Pressures (Football Outsiders), and defense grade (PFF) despite being double teamed on an undogly amount of snaps.

He's been really good. https://t.co/r2tP2B4hZ2

@benbbaldwin: This is a few weeks old, but here's the receipts on Clowney's double team rate.

The Seahawks don't have many other pass rush threats so Clowney gets doubled a lot. He's still produced. He's good https://t.co/H1px3J2hLa
 
Tweet from @SethWalder: Overdue for an update on these.

Double team rate as an edge rusher (x) by pass rush win rate as an edge rusher (y).

PRWR = rate pass rusher beats blocker in 2.5 seconds.

ESPN stats, NGS data. https://t.co/L83ErcibxR



Clowney top right. Mercilus bottom left
 
The last time Seattle played San Francisco, Clowney had arguably the best performance of his NFL career, compiling a sack, a forced fumble, a fumble recovery returned for a touchdown, five quarterback hits and a number of quarterback pressures. He was named NFC Defensive Player of the Week. It was in that game that Clowney suffered the core injury that has made him miss 3 games since Week 10.

Clowney looked like he would have been better off missing his 4th game.

Just like Watson's obvious ankle injury was conveniently left off of the Injury Report in lieu of his back injury, so has Clowney's repeatedly drained knee which has been overshadowed by his core injury.
 
Clowney basically won the game for Seattle.

5 tackles, 1 sack and a legal QB hit that knocked out Wentz.

Could really use that kind of production against Kansas City
 
TheKDog said:
Clowney basically won the game for Seattle.

5 tackles, 1 sack and a legal QB hit that knocked out Wentz.

Could really use that kind of production against Kansas City
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One thing that we can take away from his performance is that the 'Hawks likely keep him ensuring we get that 3rd round pick.
 
@DZangaroNBCS: Here’s referee Shawn Smith, per pool report, on the reason Jadeveon Clowney was not flagged for helment-to-helmet hit on Carson Wentz:

“He was a runner and he did not give himself up. We saw incidental helmet contact, and in our judgement, we didn’t rule that to be a foul.”
 
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