He needs to stop drinking the water in Houston. It just doesn't agree with some of us.
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Why does Fuller always get a pass??
- Thread starter Texecutioner
- Start date
He needs to stop drinking the water in Houston. It just doesn't agree with some of us.
PapaL
Loose Screw
He’s not running routes on the trainers table. Anderson absolutely is a burner dude ran a 4.36 compared to Fullers 4.33. He plays for the Jets so he’s been under the radar but playing WR2 to Hopkins and with a legit QB he’d absolutely be productive.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I wish we'd stop drafting te's we don't use.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Diet and manipulation falls into the extrinsic factors (as in contrast to the intrinsic factor of genetics) contributing to these injuries. As I posted previously, undoubtedly both are typically involved.
But could it be only the former?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Not typically, but it may be difficult to discern. If the genetic predisposition is present, the threshhold for injury is lessened while a "trauma" usually triggers it. Even in such cases of non contact ACLs, trauma comes in the form of any stresses placed on the knee............twisting, fatigue, unbalanced opposing muscles.............the genetics being the difference for why one player may suffer the ultimate injury and the another would not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Coutee at 23 years of age and cap cost of $850,000 I expect him to at least make it to preseason games. He will be a 3rd year guy and like most NFL players Should be much better. He will probably have as much potential as any fifth through seventh round draft pick. I do expect several udfa to be in Camp.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yep.....farts and blows a hammy at the same time!!!!!
Several years ago I attended a seminar where French sports scientist J.B. Morin was a presenter. He, with a few others, have developed the concept of testing an athletes Force-Velocity profile. By looking at running splits across a 40yd dash you can determine if an athlete is force dominant (strengh) or velocity (speed) dominate and you can use that information to guide training blocks. If an athlete is force dominant you can balance their profile by doing more speed work and vice versa for velocity dominant athletes. Balancing the profile has been shown to increase performance. The reason I bring this up, Morin mentioned there was some preliminary data suggesting that velocity dominant athletes were at greater risk for hamstring injuries. Without even testing Fuller I can almost guarantee he's velocity dominant based on the fact his VJ at the combine was 33 inches and he ran a 4.28 40. Also, I have an acquaintance that used to work for the team, and he mentioned that Fuller doesn't like lifting weights (not uncommon at all for speedsters)
I'm a big Fuller fan (I'm a ND fan so I've watched him for years), and he's been an absolute game changer - even with spotty hands at times. I do share some of the frustration of others on here at his unfortunate injury history. I truly hope they can get him sorted out. I do know that hamstring injuries are a huge problem across a variety of sports, so much so that there is a yearly conference in Europe on hamstring injuries and prevention. If I were a part of the Texans staff I'd run every possible diagnostic test on Fuller to get him figured out. I'd love to see him healthy for a full season to see what he could really do.
On a side, if anyone from the Texans is on here you are welcome to contact me to give my robotic sprint machine a try with Fuller. I think it could help
Depends on which team he played for. Dude was money for the Ravens in their Super Bowl season. He just wasn't clutch for the Texans minus his game winning catch against the Patriots in early 2010.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Thanks for sharing your experience!
The studies surrounding what you have discussed have always interested me. The same genetically-based velocity-dominant/force dominant issues no doubt are underlying the athlete's tendency for soft tissue injuries. I pulled up one of my archived articles from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) on this subject. Looking deeper into relationships of the genetics of sports performance and injuries can hopefully someday consistently maximize performance and minimize injuries.
Is athletic performance determined by genetics?
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Dude was money for the Ravens? Clearly you didn't watch much of him that season, because he was anything but money. He was the same unreliable drops having fool he was on the Texans. He made a few fluke plays in the post season after having an underwhelming regular season just like that entire team did on that SB run. He did nothing after that as well. Your statement was not accurate.
I believe the Denver Broncos and the 49ers would VERY easily disagree with your lack of acknowledgement here.....
Anderson is one of the most underrated WRs in the NFL. Dude gets open and has great hands. I would love to see him on this roster. And the best ability is reliability. Fuller only stays On an incentive based contract. He’s just to unreliable.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is non responsive. Clearly you didn't watch that season or check his seasonal stats.
I could make the same simple minded statement about David Tyree and say that he was
"money" all because of one big play in the SB
Maybe @otisbean and @CloakNNNdagger can collaborate on a case study. Fuller would be an interesting case study.
Also, with your experiences, Fuller came back against the Titans and played 94% of the snaps. Why wouldn't the team or medical staff watch his workload? What are your thoughts on the NBA's "load management" process for Fuller?
That would be interesting. They should have tracked Fuller during the game. The tricky thing with a "groin" injury is that it's a blanket term to cover several muscle groups, such as the adductors and hip flexors. Without knowing which one he injured it would be tough to speculate on how/why he got hurt. He may have been unlucky on a play (meaning anyone could've been injured on that same play) or it could be directly related to his previous injuries. Doc could better explain this.
Load management is smart and all teams should be doing it and I bet most do it to a certain extent. I think you hear about it in the NBA because it's strenuous game and it has a long season with a lot of travel (travel is stressful to the body). When you hear load management, you have to realize stress is stress to the body. A hard practice or game stresses the body just like a fight with your wife/girlfriend does. There are devices available now that do a good job of giving insight into what's going on behind the scenes in your body, namely your autonomic nervous system. The ANS has two branches, the SNS, which is the stress side of the coin - also known as your fight or flight response, and the PNS, which is the rest and digest side of the coin. When training athletes there are two scales you have to pay attention to, their "preparedness" and their "readiness". Both of these are tied to the autonomic nervous system.
Preparedness is just like it sounds, how prepared is the athlete to handle a particular workload and it's developed through the training/workout/practice process. You wouldn't take a newbie through a professional athletes workout, you'd break them as they aren't physically prepared to handle the stresses of that style of work. However, if you built them up over the course of a year or two, they could handle really tough workouts without breaking down because you've prepared their bodies to handle the workload.
The second scale is their "readiness", and this is where load management comes into play. The readiness scale looks at how ready the athlete is to perform on a given day. Let's say we took a pair of identical twins that play for the same team in the NFL. Both have essentially the same genetics and are trained/coached the exact same way so their preparedness is essentially the same. Twin A is a laid back dude that rarely drinks or parties, makes sure he gets 8-9 hrs of sleep every night, eats really well and has very low levels of stress in his life outside football. Twin B is a partier, eats fast food every day, sleeps 4-6 hrs a night and has a girlfriend that he fights with constantly. This guys body would be under a tremendous amount of stress as he's a professional athlete and he would be completely under-recovered from his work load given his stressful life style. As a coach, I would expect twin A to be a consistent reliable performer that should remain relatively healthy throughout the season. Twin B would be inconsistent and would probably have his fair shares of injuries as he's not allowing his body to properly rest, recover and regenerate during his off time because of his stressful lifestyle.
Think of an athlete like a 5 gallon bucket, they can handle 5 gallons of work before they over flow. Over flow in our example would be over training. The harder the practice/workout/game is the more water gets poured into your bucket. When you sleep, eat well, and do things to enhance recovery, you are essentially emptying your bucket so you're ready to perform the next day. In our example, twin A would show up to practices and games with an empty bucket, meaning he is ready to get after it with 100% effort. Twin B would show up to practices and games with 2-3 gallons already in his bucket so he's not ready to handle his 100% work load, as it would over flow his bucket. It doesn't mean he cannot perform the same amount of work as twin A or even perform as well as twin A, it means that his body would be paying a higher cost for that performance and thus generate higher levels of fatigue and have a higher risk for injury. If this happened every now and then it might not be a big deal, but if it happened consistently twin B would have issues.
Tying this back to Fuller, an injury would reduce preparedness and readiness. The injured tissue cannot handle the same stresses that healthy tissue can. Additionally as you are allowing the injured tissue to heal, other muscles can become de-conditioned as they aren't exposed to the same levels of stress on a consistent basis, and they can be prone to injury if you don't adjust the workloads to a level they can handle when they resume normal work. In his first game back, Fuller might have a 3 or 4 gallon bucket to work with so ideally you'd need to adjust his work load to a level that would fit in his current bucket.
Tying this back to Doc's point on genetics, some guys are 3 gallon bucket guys. They may be genetically predisposed to only be able to handle so much work. Through the training process, every one can improve. The 3 gallon guy might turn into a 4 gallon guy, but he might never develop into a 5-6 gallon guy.
Hopefully this all makes sense and gives a basic explanation of load management. I also hope I didn't bore anyone to tears.
TejasTom
All Pro
This team can't even manage something as simple as a clock and you want them to do load management.
Fuller appears to be a 3 gallon guy.
I think if they would listen to you and CND this team would be a lot healthier.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Otisbean, congratulations on a great, articulate and understandable explanation of load management! Unfortunately, players too often are allowed to inadvisably try to accelerate the process to the point that it becomes a worthless tool........or allowed to bypass the process altogether with similar results.
This part of the equation which I've emphasized for years is one of the most important aspects in minimizing return to play performance and injury complications.:
We've been talking about Fuller, but the above applies even more to how Watt has handled the process in the past 4 years.
When I've presented the subject of "Load Management" as part of the healing period of my trauma reconstruction surgery patients, I've opened up the session with this:
LOAD MANAGEMENT CAN POTENTIALLY AFFECT OUTCOMES............
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
As I've posted in the past, hamstring strains are one of the most common injuries in all of sports. In fact, statistics show that they occur in the NFL, on average, 176 times per season. And teams average nearly 6 such injuries per season. They also have a reputation for being injuries that linger and are difficult to fully recover from, with re-injury occurring in over 20% of cases.
In addition to what Otisbean and I have posted, what many investigators have found is that there seems to be a standout in the "extrinsic" category of factors contributing to injuries to the hamstring..........and it is, as commonly thought to be, an imbalance of opposing muscle groups............surprisingly not as a result of weakness of the hamstring muscles as often attributed..................but actually as a result of weak or inactive gluteal muscles. The glutes are the largest muscle group in the body and are where athletes generate the majority of their power. The hamstrings act as a synergist to the glutes, meaning that they assist them in performing certain joint movements; notably hip extension. Therefore, if the glutes are inhibited in some way the hamstrings are forced to pick the slack. This is termed synergistic dominance.
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So rather than hamstring strains being due to a lack of hamstring strength, these injuries actually occur because the hamstrings are being overused. By correcting dysfunction to the gluteals and improving their recruitment, the hamstrings no longer have to strain and overcompensate. This target of treatment is being recognized as one of the most important and controllable in the prevention and rehab of hamstring injuries.
In addition to what Otisbean and I have posted, what many investigators have found is that there seems to be a standout in the "extrinsic" category of factors contributing to injuries to the hamstring..........and it is, as commonly thought to be, an imbalance of opposing muscle groups............surprisingly not as a result of weakness of the hamstring muscles as often attributed..................but actually as a result of weak or inactive gluteal muscles. The glutes are the largest muscle group in the body and are where athletes generate the majority of their power. The hamstrings act as a synergist to the glutes, meaning that they assist them in performing certain joint movements; notably hip extension. Therefore, if the glutes are inhibited in some way the hamstrings are forced to pick the slack. This is termed synergistic dominance.
So rather than hamstring strains being due to a lack of hamstring strength, these injuries actually occur because the hamstrings are being overused. By correcting dysfunction to the gluteals and improving their recruitment, the hamstrings no longer have to strain and overcompensate. This target of treatment is being recognized as one of the most important and controllable in the prevention and rehab of hamstring injuries.
As I've posted in the past, hamstring strains are one of the most common injuries in all of sports. In fact, statistics show that they occur in the NFL, on average, 176 times per season. And teams average nearly 6 such injuries per season. They also have a reputation for being injuries that linger and are difficult to fully recover from, with re-injury occurring in over 20% of cases.
In addition to what Otisbean and I have posted, what many investigators have found is that there seems to be a standout in the "extrinsic" category of factors contributing to injuries to the hamstring..........and it is, as commonly thought to be, an imbalance of opposing muscle groups............surprisingly not as a result of weakness of the hamstring muscles as often attributed..................but actually as a result of weak or inactive gluteal muscles. The glutes are the largest muscle group in the body and are where athletes generate the majority of their power. The hamstrings act as a synergist to the glutes, meaning that they assist them in performing certain joint movements; notably hip extension. Therefore, if the glutes are inhibited in some way the hamstrings are forced to pick the slack. This is termed synergistic dominance.
So rather than hamstring strains being due to a lack of hamstring strength, these injuries actually occur because the hamstrings are being overused. By correcting dysfunction to the gluteals and improving their recruitment, the hamstrings no longer have to strain and overcompensate. This target of treatment is being recognized as one of the most important and controllable in the prevention and rehab of hamstring injuries.
So, my stupid question is.....After 5 injury filled years, why can't the Texans' medical staff or even Fuller's own medical team develop a plan to correct the dysfunction of the gluteals and improve their recruitment?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hopefully they are, but you have to remember ALL the factors that go into hamstring injuries (as reviewed by Otisbean and me in previous posts), not just the glutes.
Speaking of non-responsive. Are you going to have me any everyone else believe that the Ravens won that Super Bowl ONLY because of ONE Jacoby Jones play????
Dude, you missed a lot! You need to go back and review that Ravens season!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You're currently still digging behind an ignorant statement.
Dig as you will, but it might help out to check out his stats from that season before going on and on about a guy that flamed out on two teams and was pretty much a bust other than a few fluke plays in the playoffs. He was always an unreliable player. How about providing evidence and statistical info to prove that I'm wrong? Is it really that hard?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
They aren't load managing Fuller. Good lord that term has become annoying.
This isn't the NBA where there is a foregone conclusion who is going to be in the Finals every year. The NFL is a competitive league where you're either able to go or you aren't. Fuller is the definition of injury prone. They aren't managing him and saving him for the playoffs. He's just hurt all the damn time like plenty of other players.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
We need to at least be able to use him early on as a decoy. If we could then just get a lead and sit him it would be worth it.
If he cant even do that it's time to part ways. I like the guy and love what he does for our offense but this is just to damn common.
If he cant even do that it's time to part ways. I like the guy and love what he does for our offense but this is just to damn common.
Not to put words in his mouth, but I think that was Earl’s point.. they didn’t manage Fuller’s workload intelligently in his first game back and he injured himself. As Powda said, they probably should have used him as a decoy more. They didn’t manage his reps and now we don’t have him for the most important game of the season. You are right, Fuller is injury prone and that’s precisely why you have to manage him because the stats show he’s an absolute game changer when he’s on the field.
I will agree with you though about the term load management being annoying. The concept is perfectly valid and can be vital to a player/team. It seems the media latches on to a term and beats it to death. Then you have media members discussing/debating an issue most of them don’t truly understand
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
But how do you manage his reps during a game or even use him as a decoy? Aren't his injuries subject to aggravation just by running and if so as a WR wouldn't he do that on any play that he is on the field? I'm just asking as I know absolutely nothing regarding anything medical. I don't think he will play today. As good as he has been when available, I would move on from Fuller or extend him to an agreement that has incentives based on games played. IIRC, the 5th year option the Texans picked up is guaranteed for injury only so they need to get him healthy to make a sound decision on his future.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The Texans will not release or trade him for 2020.............he is too valuable for the times when he IS healthy.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Load management should not, and is not meant to, begin in games. It is meant to be followed from day 1 of the rehab program, and progress throughout the practice period PRIOR to release to play in games.................this is something the Texans have not followed..............it is why I have in the Injury Reports tried to emphasize, that a player, especially with a soft tissue injury, should not be playing in a game without having at least 1 entire week of Full Participation practices.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
You may be right but I'm still curious what people think he's worth in a trade.
I think we already guaranteed for 2020. Hope I am wrong.
Who other than us want him to warm the bench.
Generally speaking they wouldn’t even put him on the field if he couldn’t run full speed, if they did id consider that negligence. So you’d manage his reps in terms of the number of plays as well as what plays you run with him in the game. It would be tougher to load the box with Fuller in the game due to his speed, so you should be able to run with him in the game. If it were me, I’d throw deep to him in the first 5-6 plays just to show it, then have him run some basic curls/stops for the majority of his reps and if I noticed the defense starting to sit on him I’d call a
Stop and go or something similar. I’d definitely limit his deep routes. I’d call just enough to make the defense respect him
Most hamstring injuries happen when guys are running at or near peak velocity so shorter routes should be fine
Additionally, keeping the number of reps on the lower side helps prevent fatigue. A fatigued muscle can’t handle the same forces a healthy well conditioned muscle can. Shorter routes would also help manage fatigue. I’d also tell Fuller to run the majority of his routes at 90-95% effort, he’d still be really fast. This would also help manage his fatigue
PapaL
Loose Screw
He can be cut at any time and we’d save ~$10M.
Will Fuller
Will Fuller contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
Is this true?He can be cut at any time and we’d save ~$10M.
Will Fuller
Will Fuller contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.www.spotrac.com
I believe 5th year guaranteed for injury only
PapaL
Loose Screw
Click on the link, go down to next seasons salary and drop him. Shows the cap hit $0 and saved $10M. 5th year is basically a one year deal.
