The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

[maverick512000]

Can we please stop trying to use the medical history stuff as an excuse to why we moved Clowney.

Will they do this to Watson and Will Fuller when it's time to pay them?

Fuller yeah if he goes down again or isn’t head and shoulders above Stills I think once he’s off the rookie contract he’s gone.

Watson is a QB, first they SHOULDN’T take the kind of punishment other players take. Second you can’t just replace them like you can other positions. It’s kind of like repairing a car, you may replace tires and batteries whenever you need to without worrying about it but you baby the engine, even if in reality it needs replaced, because replacing it takes more than the whole car is worth.

With Clowney it had less to do with paying him and more what he thought he should get paid and all the more important pieces around him that also need to be paid.

 

[gafftop]

Can we please stop trying to use the medical history stuff as an excuse to why we moved Clowney.

Will they do this to Watson and Will Fuller when it's time to pay them?

I sure hope they do this with Fuller. I don't see him ever playing a full season of NFL football.

 

[gafftop]

Predict he will play less than Clowney did/does. Speed doesn't kill on bench. Hope i'm wrong.

gafftop, Apr 28, 2016Report
#1275

Posted the above after draft in 2016 about Fuller. NFL chews up and spits out the weak. Fuller just not built to survive in NFL. Not so much about overall size but body type.

RECEIVING
Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM
2018 Houston Texans 7 32 503 15.7 71.9 73T 4 7 1 23 0
2017 Houston Texans 10 28 423 15.1 42.3 59T 7 7 2 21 0
2016 Houston Texans 14 47 635 13.5 45.4 53 2 11 1 31 0
TOTAL 31 107 1,561 14.6 50.4 73 13 25 4 75 0

You really think Fuller is a stud like Watson? Only the Texans would overpay for these stats. Again, hope I am wrong.

 

[TheKDog]

If Fuller leaves, we'll regret that one too.

 

[IDEXAN]

This is insane. The Seahawks deal was more than the Eagles deal.

I can't wait till next season to see what the NFL thinks he's worth without the tag.

But first we got to see how he deos this year but he's being set up perfectly by Seattle because they are gonna have him at the weakside DE position, his old college position.
This is where the Texans should have played him the majority of the time if not exclusively while he was here in Houston.
I dunno but we know RAC wouldn't do that but I bet Wade Philips would have played JD at his "natural position ?
So if Cloweny can remain basically healthy and crack the double digit barrier in Seattle this year he might get that big pay he thinks he deserves after 2019.
Anybody else remember another Texans first rounder who turned into a sack machine after he left Houston ? Eventually Jason Babin found his niche several years after leaving
Houston when he was played at his old college posiion. That's right we had him at LB then eventually he got his hand in the dirt again which led to his big payday.

 

[thunderkyss]

With Clowney it had less to do with paying him and more what he thought he should get paid and all the more important pieces around him that also need to be paid.

"They" are saying paying him had nothing to do with it. BO'b doesn't believe he's a winner.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Fuller leaves, we'll regret that one too.

Depends. BO'b seems to get better at this trade thing. We're liable to get a 4th in the upcoming draft to replace the two firsts & 2nd we gave up in the Laremy deal.

 

[TheKDog]

And Kenny stills is only signed two years

 

[ATXtexanfan]

Huh? Why did I get quoted on this?

Oops

 

[thunderkyss]

Seattle because they are gonna have him at the weakside DE position, his old college position.
This is where the Texans should have played him the majority of the time if not exclusively while he was here in Houston.
I dunno but we know RAC wouldn't do that but I bet Wade Philips would have played JD at his "natural position ?

Romeo pretty much picked up where Wade left off. Our front 7 plays the way they play because of Jj Watt & his ability to rush from outside, or inside. Rush the passer or defend the run.

We play a hybrid 3-4/4-3 depending on the situation. We play enough 4-3 imo to know Clowney benefited from the way he was used here.

He doesn't have the bend needed to turn the corner, flatten, & explode to the QB. He has no spin to attack outside then come back inside. He doesn't use his hands particularly well. He doesn't have the strength to bench a LT.

He has a wicked first step & exceptional speed. Moving him from one spot to another helps exploit that first step.

I'm nobody. Just an amateur who is usually drunk before the game starts. But I bet Seattle will stand him up & move him around soon. He won't play that WDE position like we'd think.

 

[IDEXAN]

*****
Ran across this video on a Seahawks MB website and it suggests how Clowney can fit into the Seahawks defense and it also provides a good summary
of JDs career with the Texans and is candid as it rates him an elite player vs the run but short of being elite as a pass rusher.

 

[maverick512000]

*****
Ran across this video on a Seahawks MB website and it suggests how Clowney can fit into the Seahawks defense and it also provides a good summary
of JDs career with the Texans and is candid as it rates him an elite player vs the run but short of being elite as a pass rusher.

I’ll admit I just watched the first five plays of that but I was noticing a theme. First I wasn’t listening to it or watching Clowney, I was watching JJ.

First play: JJ is being doubled team and the QB is watching him when he isn’t trying to get the ball out. Clowney swings out very wide and catching the QB as he’s starting to try and get away from JJ.

Second play: Clowney shows some good speed here but the QB is trapped. He can’t run forward or to the right because again he would be right in the arms of JJ so he freezes.

Third play: I’ll give it up to him here he pushed passed the line and hit the QB.

Fourth play: QB is running for his life here because, again, JJ is on top of him.

Fifth play: Again I’ll it up to Clowney here he found a hole in the line and crashed into the QB.

The point is JJ makes any defense line look better just like Brady makes any Oline look better. Once Clowney is out on his own I don’t believe he will put up the numbers he even did here. And before anyone mentions 2017 he was top almost by default but his numbers still weren’t that much better than previous years.

Clowney is great against the run game but in this modern, QB driven NFL that’s not enough to be truly elite.

 

[TheKDog]

Clowney was double teamed more than watt last year.

He was also dropped in coverage more often:

Clowney qb hits: 21
Clowney tfl: 16
Watt QB hits: 25
Watt tfl: 18

I don't think clowney is as good as watt.

But people are underrating clowney.

At the same time people are thinking watt is back to being watt. But before the surgeries, watt was getting 50 qb hits and and 29 tfl. He was truly historic.

 

[steelbtexan]

So have the rules changed that we're now allowed to post full articles?

Just asking so I don't have to waste time cutting and pasting with links and whatnot.

Anything goes. there's no moderation.

 

[TheKDog]

Anything goes. there's no moderation.

Did I post the full article?

 

[thunderkyss]

Clowney was double teamed more than watt last year.

He was also dropped in coverage more often:

Clowney qb hits: 21
Clowney tfl: 16
Watt QB hits: 25
Watt tfl: 18

I don't think clowney is as good as watt.

But people are underrating clowney.

At the same time people are thinking watt is back to being watt. But before the surgeries, watt was getting 50 qb hits and and 29 tfl. He was truly historic.

I'm not underrating him. I think he's a good player. A very good player. I just didn't want this team paying him what he should get in FA especially when he was already on the team.

I'm also not too worried about how bad our defense will be without him. When it counted the defense wasn't very good with him. & we've got a gut to fill in with Mercilus who has been miscast, without saying a word, so Clowney can be Clowney.

 

[maverick512000]

Clowney was double teamed more than watt last year.

He was also dropped in coverage more often:

Clowney qb hits: 21
Clowney tfl: 16
Watt QB hits: 25
Watt tfl: 18

I don't think clowney is as good as watt.

But people are underrating clowney.

At the same time people are thinking watt is back to being watt. But before the surgeries, watt was getting 50 qb hits and and 29 tfl. He was truly historic.

You could be right, we’ll see this year. For me Clowney is overrated, don’t get me wrong he’s a good player and the defense is weaker without him but I don’t think he has lived up to his potential or been worth the 1.1 we drafted him at.

 

[steelbtexan]

Did I post the full article?

Nope,

But I did

 

[TheKDog]

Nope,

But I did

That's a violation of forum rules.

 

[powda]

That's a violation of forum rules.

So you deliberately omitted the one paragraph in a big article that proved you wrong because you were concerned about forum rules?

 

[steelbtexan]

That's a violation of forum rules.

Go F yourself

This is a violation of forum rules.

I like debating with you and respect your differing opinions, but what you did is completely dishonest and I made a point yrs ago to cut people like you out of my life. I'm not going to put you on ignore because I like the back and forth. But you're going to have to become more honest.

 

[TheKDog]

So you deliberately omitted the one paragraph in a big article that proved you wrong because you were concerned about forum rules?

I didn't do it on purpose. It was two paragraphs because initially i got an error for having too many images. So I deleted the images and accidentally some paragraphs as well.

I don't see how the first paragraph goes against my narrative anyway and even if it does, the second deleted paragraph supports my narrative.

I mean I included the link to the whole article. The idea was I deleted a paragraph to win an argument on the internet? Is that it?

 

[powda]

Go F yourself

This is a violation of forum rules.

I like debating with you and respect your differing opinions, but what you did is completely dishonest and I made a point yrs ago to cut people like you out of my life. I'm not going to put you on ignore because I like the back and forth. But you're going to have to become more honest.

Agreed. He's not a bad poster at all but that act shows a complete lack of character. Whatever credibility he built has been abandoned. If posters have to "customize" articles/stats/etc to make a point they're more then likely wrong about whatever they're arguing.

 

[TheKDog]

Go F yourself

This is a violation of forum rules.

I like debating with you and respect your differing opinions, but what you did is completely dishonest and I made a point yrs ago to cut people like you out of my life. I'm not going to put you on ignore because I like the back and forth. But you're going to have to become more honest.

I respect your opinion too and we actually agree on a lot with regard to Dillard and Cletus. But on OBrien we have a slight disagreement.

I didn't cut the paragraphs out on purpose but I guess there is no way to prove it unless a mod can pull the failed initial submission of the full article with images

 

[Speedy]

I'm not underrating him. I think he's a good player. A very good player. I just didn't want this team paying him what he should get in FA especially when he was already on the team.

They weren't, that's why they tagged him.

 

[TheKDog]

I'm not underrating him. I think he's a good player. A very good player. I just didn't want this team paying him what he should get in FA especially when he was already on the team.

I'm also not too worried about how bad our defense will be without him. When it counted the defense wasn't very good with him. & we've got a gut to fill in with Mercilus who has been miscast, without saying a word, so Clowney can be Clowney.

You could be right, we’ll see this year. For me Clowney is overrated, don’t get me wrong he’s a good player and the defense is weaker without him but I don’t think he has lived up to his potential or been worth the 1.1 we drafted him at.

Pff rated him the #10 edge player. I think that's fair.

I don't see how the defense can possibly be as good. I like mercilus and martin but while they might be slightly better pass rushers in certain situations they are not good against the run.

We will also see all the double teams shift to Watt this year so mercilus and Martin better be getting to the passer.

We also lost Matthieu which is a whole other conversation. And JJo is a year older.

 

[TheKDog]

Actually @steelbtexan you deleted some paragraphs also when you tried to post the full article

 

[Dejaview]

Weird considering everyone thinks you ran off the doc

This was yet another trolling lie by kdog that has been exposed. Said my medical arguments with doc on the injury thread ran him off. Lol, guy was gone about the time I joined. I never even replied to even one of his posts there. So glad you could bring this to light since he just lied and deleted a paragraph he wanted to use On this thread. Guy is clinical.

 

[TheKDog]

This was yet another trolling lie by kdog that has been exposed. Said my medical arguments with doc on the injury thread ran him off. Lol, guy was gone about the time I joined. I never even replied to even one of his posts there. So glad you could bring this to light since he just lied and deleted a paragraph he wanted to use On this thread. Guy is clinical.

No I have heard multiple respected posters say you ran off doc

 

[powda]

No I have heard multiple respected posters say you ran off doc

Should be in writing somewhere here (unless it was deliberately deleted...)

 

[steelbtexan]

Actually @steelbtexan you deleted some paragraphs also when you tried to post the full article

Care to point out what I deleted

Other than McClain's pic which I had to do to post the article.

 

[steelbtexan]

I didn't do it on purpose. It was two paragraphs because initially i got an error for having too many images. So I deleted the images and accidentally some paragraphs as well.

I don't see how the first paragraph goes against my narrative anyway and even if it does, the second deleted paragraph supports my narrative.

I mean I included the link to the whole article. The idea was I deleted a paragraph to win an argument on the internet? Is that it?

BS, you had to make an effort to remove that paragraph.

 

[Dejaview]

I didn't do it on purpose. It was two paragraphs because initially i got an error for having too many images. So I deleted the images and accidentally some paragraphs as well.

I don't see how the first paragraph goes against my narrative anyway and even if it does, the second deleted paragraph supports my narrative.

I mean I included the link to the whole article. The idea was I deleted a paragraph to win an argument on the internet? Is that it?

You have been ranting seems like every three minutes all day long how OB is the “dumbass” who made these trades. I posted, not replying to a poster” that McClain wrote that OB was Cal’s point man in these trades. That’s all. You, of course, immediately responded with your article with that specific SHORT paragraph deleted then pulled up another sentence from that article supposedly supporting your opinion. Why did you delete the one sentence in the article that damned the reasons for your whole life existence on this thread....and every other one...and post the one you did?

 

[Dejaview]

No I have heard multiple respected posters say you ran off doc

By never responding to his medical posts? Dude, you can't even begin to know the meaning of respect or the truth.

 

[powda]

By never responding to his medical posts? Dude, you can't even begin to know the meaning of respect or the truth.

Can you direct other posters to where this exchange took place so we can form our own opinions?

 

[Rich Schmidt]

Pff rated him the #10 edge player. I think that's fair.

I don't see how the defense can possibly be as good. I like mercilus and martin but while they might be slightly better pass rushers in certain situations they are not good against the run.

We will also see all the double teams shift to Watt this year so mercilus and Martin better be getting to the passer.

We also lost Matthieu which is a whole other conversation. And JJo is a year older.

@Kdog, your passion is high as is your post count :-) I wish you would bring balance to your arguments and opinions so they would be more

No I have heard multiple respected posters say you ran off doc

Dude, I don't know Dejaview from Adam, but he looks cup half full while anything not aligned to you seems a disaster. I took 5 minutes and found @badboy researched some of this and posted it in the Injury Thread, you judge who was pissing doc off from this research maybe?? I ain't naming names but it is all there for some of us to see and it was not Dejaview so please stop that crap, just makes me wonder who is next

 

[Dejaview]

Can you direct other posters to where this exchange took place so we can form our own opinions?

The injury thread. Cnd medical stuff. No need to look beyond April 2019. Wasn’t a member then.

 

[TheKDog]

Care to point out what I deleted

Other than McClain's pic which I had to do to post the article.

This part at least:

O'Brien makes the final decision on players and answers to McNair. To assist in the process, O'Brien relied on a team of executive vice president of team development Jack Easterby, senior vice president of football administration Chris Olsen, director of player personnel Matt Bazirgan, director of football information systems Russell Joyner, director of pro personnel Rob Kisiel, assistant director of pro personnel C.J. Leak and director of college scouting James Liipfert

 

[Dejaview]

@Kdog, your passion is high as is your post count :-) I wish you would bring balance to your arguments and opinions so they would be more

Dude, I don't know Dejaview from Adam, but he looks cup half full while anything not aligned to you seems a disaster. I took 5 minutes and found @badboy researched some of this and posted it in the Injury Thread, you judge who was pissing doc off from this research maybe?? I ain't naming names but it is all there for some of us to see and it was not Dejaview so please stop that crap, just makes me wonder who is next

Thanks. My opinion of Doc is he’s not here now for professional reasons. Busy, no doubt, but it’s probably in his best interests to not be brutal honest as to specific players.

 

[Dejaview]

@Kdog, your passion is high as is your post count :-) I wish you would bring balance to your arguments and opinions so they would be more

Dude, I don't know Dejaview from Adam, but he looks cup half full while anything not aligned to you seems a disaster. I took 5 minutes and found @badboy researched some of this and posted it in the Injury Thread, you judge who was pissing doc off from this research maybe?? I ain't naming names but it is all there for some of us to see and it was not Dejaview so please stop that crap, just makes me wonder who is next

Thanks. My opinion of Doc is he’s not here now for professional reasons. Busy, no doubt, but it’s probably in his best interests to not be brutal honest as to specific players.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Thanks. My opinion of Doc is he’s not here now for professional reasons. Busy, no doubt, but it’s probably in his best interests to not be brutal honest as to specific players.

He didn't just start giving his medical opinions recently.

 

[Dejaview]

He didn't just start giving his medical opinions recently.

I’m sure it’s for some professional reason...maybe just not to possibly contradict an existing opinion. Who knows.

 

[TheKDog]

There's a doctor on Twitter who tries to do the same thing

 

[Mollywhopper]

I’m sure it’s for some professional reason...maybe just not to possibly contradict an existing opinion. Who knows.

What makes you think it's for professional reasons when he's said in no uncertain terms that he'd become completely fed up here?

 

[Dejaview]

What makes you think it's for professional reasons when he's said in no uncertain terms that he'd become completely fed up here?

Lol, that how little I’ve even been on his thread. Didn’t even know that. Doesn’t matter. I never replied to his posts anyway.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Lol, that how little I’ve even been on his thread. Didn’t even know that. Doesn’t matter. I never replied to his posts anyway.

Calm down, guy. I didn't say you did.

 

[powda]

@Kdog, your passion is high as is your post count :-) I wish you would bring balance to your arguments and opinions so they would be more

Dude, I don't know Dejaview from Adam, but he looks cup half full while anything not aligned to you seems a disaster. I took 5 minutes and found @badboy researched some of this and posted it in the Injury Thread, you judge who was pissing doc off from this research maybe?? I ain't naming names but it is all there for some of us to see and it was not Dejaview so please stop that crap, just makes me wonder who is next

@badboy 's research post is on page 132 of the injury thread. I went much farther back then that however to December 2018 and couldn't find the posts he quoted. It's possible badboy's quotes were pulled from other threads or just as likely all the drama he referenced was deleted.

Maybe at the time badboy did his research some of the posts had already been deleted? From what I can see, there doesn't appear to be anyone poster who chased him away.

I've been here for a very long time and frankly, I've paid little attention to the injury thread. Sifting through it however it looked like cnd's personal oasis. And rightfully so. Dude had his **** together and put a lot of effort into his posts purely to keep other posters educated.

I think overtime maybe some started to take it for granted. Reading through it looks like every other post was a request for his opinion. Surely that became taxing for him.

Ultimately this forum does what it does. People got off topic and started infighting in "his thread."

I wasn't there and I may be off base. I'm not placing blame. It looks like mods, in the spirit of free speech, let the posters say what they wanted to. Maybe cnd didn't like that intrusion on a thread he poured his heart into?

I think he wanted them to trim the fat and keep all the bs out. When they didn't, he said ***** it.

Again, I'm only reading between the lines for what's available. And maybe I'm illiterate? But I have noticed his absence coincides with infantrycaks.

Hopefully, leave for both cnd and cak is temporary and they return soon. This place is better with them here.

 

[thunderkyss]

*****
Ran across this video on a Seahawks MB website and it suggests how Clowney can fit into the Seahawks defense and it also provides a good summary
of JDs career with the Texans and is candid as it rates him an elite player vs the run but short of being elite as a pass rusher.

Pretty much saying the same thing I said. The Seahawks would be negligent if the strictly line him up as a 4-3 end.

I don't see how the defense can possibly be as good. I

Neither do I. I expect a drop, just don't think it will be very far.

Rac has gotten more talented overall on the back end. Longer & faster. If he can teach those athletes to actually cover someone it may actually compensate for the loss up front.

You think Matthieu is a plus player. I get that. The Chiefs obviously think so as well. So I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't think he is irreplaceable.

Safety has always been weak on this team. I don't think Matthieu was the best safety we've ever had, & I'll leave it at that.

 

[maverick512000]

CnD is a grown man with years in the medical field. I highly doubt any one person could “run him off” when he has been posting here for years. CnD was getting pissed about a lot of things. You can make just as good an argument that his issues with Cak made him leave as well. Personally I don’t think it was anyone thing and he just wanted to step away for a bit. So unless he comes back and says “X is the reason I left” let’s cut this **** out about someone running him off. Those kind of personal attacks add nothing to any of these discussions.

As far as people cutting off articles, that, and copy right reasons, is why most forums I visit have rules against posting full articles. One mistake with cut and paste and suddenly it’s a conspiracy to make Area 51 look like Disney land. I don’t think anyone did it with malicious intent. Good God people if you want to ***** and moan and call the other person a lying SoB then take it to the political forums. This **** is suppose to be fun.

 

[powda]

CnD is a grown man with years in the medical field. I highly doubt any one person could “run him off” when he has been posting here for years. CnD was getting pissed about a lot of things. You can make just as good an argument that his issues with Cak made him leave as well. Personally I don’t think it was anyone thing and he just wanted to step away for a bit. So unless he comes back and says “X is the reason I left” let’s cut this **** out about someone running him off. Those kind of personal attacks add nothing to any of these discussions.

As far as people cutting off articles, that, and copy right reasons, is why most forums I visit have rules against posting full articles. One mistake with cut and paste and suddenly it’s a conspiracy to make Area 51 look like Disney land. I don’t think anyone did it with malicious intent. Good God people if you want to ***** and moan and call the other person a lying SoB then take it to the political forums. This **** is suppose to be fun.

Not sure I agree with the last half of your post.