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Trent Williams LT Available

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
No where in the post I responded to was it mentioned that Clowney has to first sign his franchise tender before any trade can be made.

Rumors are there well may be trades being discussed; just waiting on Clowney before going forward.
Sorry guess I forgot the :sarcasm:when talking about all the various trade discussion, guess I thought it wasn't needed since I said we should trade the entire team and staff with NE. The entire point of the post, and it applies to Clowney as well, is that its not just the Texans decision.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
The Texans need to recognize at some point that we either keep Watson upright, or we're done. That was only exacerbated by Miller going down and the unknown status of Duke Johnson. If we weren't a pass-first team before Saturday night, we sure as hell are now.

The two 2nds (2020 and 2021) while expensive, sounds about right for Williams. As shown, Clowney would have no part in this deal, unless he was part of an elaborate three-way trade that the GM-less Texans are likely incapable of.
How can you call us a pass first team when we have an amazing RB like Watson on the team.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...its not just the Texans decision.
There's been a lot of posting on Williams/Clowney. This sentence in your post offered the perfect lead in to clarify the point that nothing will get done until Clowney signs. The follow up suggests that talks between the Texans and undiclosed teams are underway, and just waiting on Clowney to sign before negotiations can proceed.

Early reports were that Clowney would sign before the last preseason game. So we're all just waiting on Clowney.
 

redskins

Practice Squad
Give me Piersbacher and you get the two seconds. I follow Alabama closely and he could start on your line or mine before year over.
piersbacher and trent for your 2020 and 2021 #2s? Ok, deal! (Because at this point, I dont know that washington is getting what they want for Trent (a #1), and that deal ain't bad for either club). you really like this piersbacher, eh? I can tell you he's down the skins' depth chart at the moment and they have erick flowers as a starting guard. i'm better than erick flowers. at 150 lbs.

With our two picks this next draft plus your top 6 first you can add quite a bit your team. You could get WR Jerry Judy (I'm working deal with Raiders for Clowney so I can select him). Our second will get you a good LT to replace your 37 year old Penn and the two thirds get you a CB and OG to replace Scherff. Hint, Timon Paris needs some work on your right side with first team. He could be better than you might think.
ok, you got me convinced i'll give you williams and piersbacher for your #2s in 2020 and 2021. As for Scherrff, he's a FA at the end of the year, his contract will be expiring so I dont think you would want to trade for him. The Texans can just bid for his services in the offseason. He will be an unrestricted FA. ANd washington, in their infinite stupidity, will be losing him as well so the good news is you (or any team) can get a pro bowl caliber guard in his prime without giving up any draft capital. the bad news is he will probably be the highest paid guard (or close to it) by next offseason (12-16 per year, im guessing)
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
piersbacher and trent for your 2020 and 2021 #2s? Ok, deal! (Because at this point, I dont know that washington is getting what they want for Trent (a #1), and that deal ain't bad for either club). you really like this piersbacher, eh? I can tell you he's down the skins' depth chart at the moment and they have erick flowers as a starting guard. i'm better than erick flowers. at 150 lbs.



ok, you got me convinced i'll give you williams and piersbacher for your #2s in 2020 and 2021. As for Scherrff, he's a FA at the end of the year, his contract will be expiring so I dont think you would want to trade for him. The Texans can just bid for his services in the offseason. He will be an unrestricted FA. ANd washington, in their infinite stupidity, will be losing him as well so the good news is you (or any team) can get a pro bowl caliber guard in his prime without giving up any draft capital. the bad news is he will probably be the highest paid guard (or close to it) by next offseason (12-16 per year, im guessing)
You're starting to understand where I'm going. Trent Williams immediately starts LT for Texans. Pierschbacher can play Right Guard but I am more interested in being our backup 2019 Center while starting there no later than 2020. The value for William's is the two and a three later. Adding Piersbacher bumps the 20 20 pick from third to a second.

Giving us Scherf for 2020 3rd is smart for both teams. I know in depth about Scherf contract and want him regardless. he can be a 5 year starter and Texans can afford him + TWilliams. PS it was a pleasure doing business with you!

Edit to correct from can't afford to can.
 
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NastyNate

I go kerplunk
You're starting to understand where I'm going. Trent Williams immediately starts LT for Texans. Pierschbacher can play Right Guard but I am more interested in being our backup 2019 Center while starting there no later than 2020. The value for William's is the two and a three later. Adding Piersbacher bumps the 20 20 pick from third to a second.

Giving us Scherf for 2020 3rd is smart for both teams. I know in depth about Scherf contract and want him regardless. he can be a 5 year starter and Texans can afford him + TWilliams. PS it was a pleasure doing business with you!

Edit to correct from can't afford to can.
I would take Scherff and Williams on that deal in a heartbeat.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would take Scherff and Williams on that deal in a heartbeat.
Please do not forget my boy Piercebacher LOL. Seriously this kid has a lot of upside. He was very good last season for Alabama. He has the skill set and the intelligence to the a 10-year starter at our Center position. Do you think that Washington would make the deal if offered by O'Brien?
 

NastyNate

I go kerplunk
Please do not forget my boy Piercebacher LOL. Seriously this kid has a lot of upside. He was very good last season for Alabama. He has the skill set and the intelligence to the a 10-year starter at our Center position. Do you think that Washington would make the deal if offered by O'Brien?
I don't think Piercebacher would be included, he's part of their future. Scherff is a FA after this year so they realize he ain't sticking around with that dumpster fire of a team. He'll go to a contender. Snyder will take what he can get for Scherff at this point. But i'd be happy with P-bacher if so.
 

redskins

Practice Squad
I suspect that the idea of Trent Williams is just a pipe dream at this point. Probably a less than 1 in 10 chance of happening.
well thats in part because the redskins are run by baboons, who apparently (if reports are true) are unwilling to trade him. so either he plays for them or they make him sit and play for nobody which is why we are a 20 yr dumpster fire since snyder bought the team.
 

redskins

Practice Squad
You're starting to understand where I'm going. Trent Williams immediately starts LT for Texans. Pierschbacher can play Right Guard but I am more interested in being our backup 2019 Center while starting there no later than 2020. The value for William's is the two and a three later. Adding Piersbacher bumps the 20 20 pick from third to a second.

Giving us Scherf for 2020 3rd is smart for both teams. I know in depth about Scherf contract and want him regardless. he can be a 5 year starter and Texans can afford him + TWilliams. PS it was a pleasure doing business with you!

Edit to correct from can't afford to can.
ha, wait. I aint giving you scherff *and* williams. i'll give you williams and piersbacher for two #2s. i'm not running a charity here. again, scherff is available for you guys next offseason as he will be an UFA who wont be signing with washington. which should be good news for you because you dont have to trade draft capital at all for him now. you can just sign him next season. i cant give you THREE offensive linemen this year haha, i have to pretend to try here and attempt to not get QBs killed and fill out a roster. Besides, scherrff's cap # this year is 12.5 and williams is like 14 or something....you'd have to swing 26+ million in 10 days!

williams + piersbacher for two #2s (2020 and 2021). edit: if you really wanted both williams and scherrff i would no longer be playing lets make a deal. i would make it so you would feel some sort of pain like you KNOW your giving something up to get those two. your offer for those guys didnt come when any real buyer pain. you want scherrff and williams together ? it's a #1 in 2020 AND a #1 in 2021 AND a #4. Which is me basically, saying, no, I'm not trading *both of them* as a package to you.

but williams and piers? Fine, two #2s
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
ha, wait. I aint giving you scherff *and* williams. i'll give you williams and piersbacher for two #2s. i'm not running a charity here. again, scherff is available for you guys next offseason as he will be an UFA who wont be signing with washington. which should be good news for you because you dont have to trade draft capital at all for him now. you can just sign him next season. i cant give you THREE offensive linemen this year haha, i have to pretend to try here and attempt to not get QBs killed and fill out a roster. Besides, scherrff's cap # this year is 12.5 and williams is like 14 or something....you'd have to swing 26+ million in 10 days!

williams + piersbacher for two #2s (2020 and 2021). edit: if you really wanted both williams and scherrff i would no longer be playing lets make a deal. i would make it so you would feel some sort of pain like you KNOW your giving something up to get those two. your offer for those guys didnt come when any real buyer pain. you want scherrff and williams together ? it's a #1 in 2020 AND a #1 in 2021 AND a #4. Which is me basically, saying, no, I'm not trading *both of them* as a package to you.

but williams and piers? Fine, two #2s
So we are giving you two 2's for Williams and Pierschbacher is the Ginsu knives ?
 

redskins

Practice Squad
So we are giving you two 2's for Williams and Pierschbacher is the Ginsu knives ?
i guess. i mean, its one of you texan guys who put forth the proposition of including pierschbacher in the 1st place. i think the real redskin FO (not the poser who you are reading right now) would be expecting at least two #2s for williams alone if not more or else they'll just let him sit out. i dont agree with that. but then again, im not as stupid as bruce allen and dan snyder are.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
ha, wait. I aint giving you scherff *and* williams. i'll give you williams and piersbacher for two #2s. i'm not running a charity here. again, scherff is available for you guys next offseason as he will be an UFA who wont be signing with washington. which should be good news for you because you dont have to trade draft capital at all for him now. you can just sign him next season. i cant give you THREE offensive linemen this year haha, i have to pretend to try here and attempt to not get QBs killed and fill out a roster. Besides, scherrff's cap # this year is 12.5 and williams is like 14 or something....you'd have to swing 26+ million in 10 days!

williams + piersbacher for two #2s (2020 and 2021). edit: if you really wanted both williams and scherrff i would no longer be playing lets make a deal. i would make it so you would feel some sort of pain like you KNOW your giving something up to get those two. your offer for those guys didnt come when any real buyer pain. you want scherrff and williams together ? it's a #1 in 2020 AND a #1 in 2021 AND a #4. Which is me basically, saying, no, I'm not trading *both of them* as a package to you.

but williams and piers? Fine, two #2s
So not exactly a fire sale after all? I respect that. However the lure for Scherff is not having to compete a year from now. The buyers pain that you desire was in giving you 2 Seconds for Williams & P. As you know the latter is not worth that; he just came out as a fifth-rounder this draft. Using the Duane Brown to Seattle as an example of a third round and a second the following year I'm giving you a whole lot more for Williams. At first you throw in P as a give me. I am way over paying for your left tackle. To recoup some of that I am willing to give you a third knowing you should be open to some my overpayment for P. towards bringing Scherff to my side of the table. You know your roster. You know you're not starting Haskins this season so no risk to your future. You also know that Penn will be suitable at left tackle for at least this season if not longer. Christian Geron should be moved to left guard soon.

As I said earlier your first round pick that you have correctly identified as being really high grabs you one of the best players in football at any position. If you choose not to improve your roster with the wide receiver jeudy, you can trade down and get at least an additional first round pick to fill out your roster plus probably two 2 more picks. I'm giving you three extra picks in the first three rounds. Don't be greedy LOL! My offer is a great deal. . Again your first should become at least two first-round picks with a trade down. Then you have a second you currently don't have plus an extra 3rd round in 2020. Plus an extra second in 2021.

Thanks for your concern about my cap but I have that well under control. I can actually give both players increases and extensions immediately. Seriously really enjoy the back and forth!
 

redskins

Practice Squad
So not exactly a fire sale after all? I respect that.
well, within reason, haha! My position is, as fantasy GM of the Redskins on this message board, trying to make a deal, any player is available off my team's roster because the nobody is expendable with this garbage franchise but it doesnt mean i'll give away a pack of linemen for pennies on the dollar. i'm sure we would argue the pennies on the dollar point. but, lets continue....

However the lure for Scherff is not having to compete a year from now.
that's assuming you can get him to sign long term now. he and his agent appear interested in getting to unrestricted free agency after this season to see what they can fetch with multiple bidders. you could risk making a deal for a guy that will leave your team in 2020.

The buyers pain that you desire was in giving you 2 Seconds for Williams & P.
and that's a deal that I would accept.....

As you know the latter is not worth that; he just came out as a fifth-rounder this draft.
agreed. he's the guy you wanted to bump up the ROI, in your estimation, of this deal for your team and I'm okay with that. i'd be looking for the same compensation if piersbacher wasnt in the deal and we were only talking about williams, a top 3 best LT in football. (In my and most evaluators opinion). being that im such a nice guy (i'm not an eagles or cowboys fan!), and more importantly, being that I want to make a deal to get something in return for a guy who doesnt want to play for us anymore, I'll include the alabama center in an effort to get this deal done with you, if that's what it would take. But understand I'd be looking for the same compensation minimum even without Piers.

Using the Duane Brown to Seattle as an example of a third round and a second the following year I'm giving you a whole lot more for Williams.
ehhh, "a whole more"? More like one round more, right?
Duane Brown deal netted you guys a 2nd and a 3rd
The deal between me and you representing our teams is a 2nd and a 2nd. it's more, I get that. But a whole lot more? they are similar caliber players which is best of breed at their position. I think Brown was a year or two older than Williams is now. so, with that said, fair enough, if we use this former deal as a reference point, I see and concede your point for including another player (piers). with that said, understand that a pair of reporters in washington with quality sources are adamant that washington already received an offer (from NE) for a #1 for Williams, for what that's worth...

I am way over paying for your left tackle.
as mentioned above, i disagree with the characterization of "way overpaying" for a hall of fame caliber Left Tackle in his prime ( 7 straight pro bowls up through and including this past season) based on the idea of 2 #2s, particularly when comparing it your justifiable trade comp of your own LT a few years ago that went for only one round's draft position lower. (a 3rd vs a 2nd). this is fun arguing / defending our teams!

To recoup some of that
i'm not in agreement that you are "way overpaying." particularly since I am using in my argument the, admittedly rumored recent proposal from NE of a #1 for williams alone....

I am willing to give you a third knowing you should be open to some my overpayment for P. towards bringing Scherff to my side of the table. You know your roster. You know you're not starting Haskins this season so no risk to your future. You also know that Penn will be suitable at left tackle for at least this season if not longer. Christian Geron should be moved to left guard soon.
I dont know Penn will be suitable. he signed like 5 minutes ago. He does not know the offense. he's only played a handful of preseason snaps. His play slipped tremendously a year ago in oakland from what I've been told and he's coming off a season ending injury, he was about to retire, and he's 36. No, I don't know how Penn will do.
I also have an impetulant owner who may force my head coach to play the rookie QB at some point this season. How do I know this? Because he's done this routine before, several times. In fact, he's the reason why Haskins is on the roster in the first place. Apparently no one wanted to draft Haskins in the 1st round in washington other than the owner. not the scouting dept, not the coaching staff. so, no, im not sure the team's most important marketable asset who is still very much a kid wont be on the field some point this season trying to survive with an almost-retired LT, a LG who YOU are better than, and no veteran depth.

As I said earlier your first round pick that you have correctly identified as being really high grabs you one of the best players in football at any position. If you choose not to improve your roster with the wide receiver jeudy, you can trade down and get at least an additional first round pick to fill out your roster plus probably two 2 more picks. I'm giving you three extra picks in the first three rounds.
you're giving me three picks in rounds 2 and 3. not round 1. what I do with my own first round pick is my own business and it has nothing to do with the texans or this deal. and at what expense to my offensive line? this would turn my offensive line into a complete sieve and rebuild project and strip it of all of it's remaining talent. i'm not saying i wouldnt do it (i'm the fire sale guy!) but I'm not handing these guys away either. if trent williams is the top rated OT in the NFL or close to it, what is Brandon Scherf? Probably a top rated guard or close to it as well. Washington has two A rated players currently on its roster. And it's those two guys. And you want them as a package without even offering a 1? You get these two guys, and in one deal, the texans offensive line becomes strong, your QB is no longer in jeopardy, your passing game can have more 5 step drops, you can run longer patterns, your running game opens up, your entire offense goes transformed. and for this transformation in acquiring an unquestioned pro bowl caliber LT and Guard, you're offering my a 3rd and a couple of twos? After NE already offered me, alledgedly, a #1 for Williams alone? Not enough. i cant rebuild my team good enough with 3s and 2s. i need another 1 to make any headway in the form of a trade. this deal as you design it begins with a 1.

Don't be greedy LOL! My offer is a great deal.
i dont think it is, haha. in fact, extremeskins message board members would chase off the board if i came back to them with 2 #2s and a 3rd for Scherrf, williams, and the rookie center. they'd take away my posting privileges. again, i can deal, and I like the back and forth with you, you're reasonable, your knowlegable, your open minded, and your willing to deal, all great attributes, but we're not close enough if you want to basically import my oline to texas.

Again your first should become at least two first-round picks with a trade down.
that's not selling me at all. the redskins organic 1st round pick in 2020 is our business and has nothing to do with the texans. there's no guarantees i can move down. there's no guarantees i want to move down when im on the clock and there's a player avail to me. the deal we need to agree upon in august 2019 is not going to be rooted in what I might (or might not) be able to do with the skins #1 next draft day. our deal is its own entity.

Seriously really enjoy the back and forth!
me too, and a token of admiration for the quality of conversation I find it incumbent upon me, as the "seller" in this arrangement to again make my sales pitch to you, the prospective buyer. And it goes like this:

The Texans are a top half of the AFC conference team. As it is constructed now, it is considered a playoff team receiving the 6th best odds in the AFC to win the SB and I would be remiss if I didnt mention there's been some news I think I might have heard, since we started this conversation, about your division that can only help your team here in the short term. One of the well known deficiencies of the Texans has been the inability in recent years to keep your excellent young QB from getting hit so much. IN washington, we have arguably the best pass protector at the most important offensive line position (LT) that we are willing to deal. Williams' in your lineup doesnt just shore up your LT position. He helps your entire offensive line (now as other interior linemen can afford to do more combo blocks while leaving williams 1 on 1 with the games best pass rushers). He helps your receivers run deeper routes, he helps your running game, he is the fastest linemen in football, he will get to the second level on sweeps and screens and take out linebackers and safeties like you havent seen before and most imporantly his presense will boost your young QB's confidence in the pocket to hold the ball longer, and make bigger plays down the field. FWIW, Adam SChefter compared Williams' trade comp to a back-in-the-day trade of Gary Zimmerman from Minnesota to Denver for a 1st, 2nd and a 6th(?) and said a deal involving williams has to start with a #1. Link : https://thebiglead.com/2019/08/13/adam-schefter-trent-williams-trade-demand-redskins/

We alledgedly already turned down a #1 from NE and have had received calls from "a few teams" regarding Williams. People in the NFL know what Williams is. He's a top flight DIFFERENCE MAKER at the game's most important position (other than QB). He lives in the area and would make a major difference to the 2019 and beyond prospects of the Texans. He's not just a guy. He can be the missing piece. I would accept two #2s for him while including the rookie center we drafted in the 5th round this year. I cannot include Brandon Scherrf for several reasons, least of which, is just being able to fill out a roster. for a redskin team that has led the NFL in games lost to injury the past two seasons combined, i cant ship 3 Olinemen out, not at the compensation of a 3rd and two seconds, certainly. Scherff by himself, a guy who's about 26? could easily fetch a 2nd round pick by himself if not more than that. I will not put scherrf in our deal here not unless the compensation goes WAY up. as it stands, williams and piers for 2020 and 2021 #2s and your offense will now be able to raise its game with williams in your lineup.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
This story has been refuted by multiple sources. NE didn't offer a one. Please stop citing this as fact.
To be fair he did say "allegedly" so he's not stating it as fact. That being said the wording was such as to give the impression that the writer believed that it had happened. Unless you are talking about the received calls part which he did state as fact.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
This whole thread is fiction to make the Texans look bad for not being able to exercise this phantom trade. Everything I’ve seen coming out of the Skins FO and coaching staff is that they have no intention to trade him, never have and aren’t accepting offers.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
This whole thread is fiction to make the Texans look bad for not being able to exercise this phantom trade. Everything I’ve seen coming out of the Skins FO and coaching staff is that they have no intention to trade him, never have and aren’t accepting offers.
Think that's the part people keep forgetting. Williams has at no point been available and for those saying that "If Texans made a good enough offer Washington would take it." well you clearly haven't checked out the Redskins history for the last decade or so. They don't deal like other teams do and they will very much cut off their nose to spite their face.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Think that's the part people keep forgetting. Williams has at no point been available and for those saying that "If Texans made a good enough offer Washington would take it." well you clearly haven't checked out the Redskins history for the last decade or so. They don't deal like other teams do and they will very much cut off their nose to spite their face.
This is the basis for all the belly aching around here. Ficticious offers that everyone's so sure can be made if we just had a GM/better HC or if we just weren't the Texans. I find most of the talking points from alot of people on here come from the yahoos on sports radio.
 

frethack

Rookie
This is the basis for all the belly aching around here. Ficticious offers that everyone's so sure can be made if we just had a GM/better HC or if we just weren't the Texans. I find most of the talking points from alot of people on here come from the yahoos on sports radio.
My belly aching (and I think most ppl here) comes from the perception that the Texans have not been pro-active in the Clowney fiasco. He was never worth two 1st rounders to the rest of the league, but the Texans have waited until the point of his lowest value (can't be extended long term) to make a final trade push.

At this point, my perception of the facts we do know is that Clowney is unhappy with the organization, likely only wants to be traded to a contender, and any compensation we receive will probably be significantly less than if we had traded him before July 15th. If we come out of this with Laremy Tunsil or even other useful player(s) packaged with good picks, my opinion will change, as long as we dont have to surrender other significant assets to make it happen. If we get pennies on the dollar, my perception will not change.

Given the facts I do know, I wish we would have concentrated on getting him back to the team after July 15th, tagged him next season, and tried the trade route again before the draft.

...unless of course we end up with a solid LT...then I reserve the right sing the organizations praises.

We can all say, "Well, we don't know all the facts, so the idea that [insert educated speculation here] is likely incorrect," but then there would be nothing to talk about. We will always see it through our perception of the facts we *do* know. We hate to admit it, but the discussion (even if its a little heated) is what makes the message board interesting.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Think that's the part people keep forgetting. Williams has at no point been available and for those saying that "If Texans made a good enough offer Washington would take it." well you clearly haven't checked out the Redskins history for the last decade or so. They don't deal like other teams do and they will very much cut off their nose to spite their face.
I think people want to know the Texans tried. If they didn't/don't even make an offer knowing Williams is disgruntled, how can we expect them to be actively pursuing trade deals to make this team better?

I mean what if we find out they had no idea Jordan Howard could be had for much less than we gave for Duke Johnson? If they knew & decided a 6th was too much & preferred Johnson for what will be a third... that's one thing. But if they didn't even know, WTF are they doing on Kirby?

& wouldn't it sting to find Williams could be had for a 5th & 6th? If Washington gets fed up & let him go for nothing wouldn't it be nice to have an offer on the table where Washington could call & say, "Is that offer still good?"
 

santo

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I think people want to know the Texans tried. If they didn't/don't even make an offer knowing Williams is disgruntled, how can we expect them to be actively pursuing trade deals to make this team better?

I mean what if we find out they had no idea Jordan Howard could be had for much less than we gave for Duke Johnson? If they knew & decided a 6th was too much & preferred Johnson for what will be a third... that's one thing. But if they didn't even know, WTF are they doing on Kirby?

& wouldn't it sting to find Williams could be had for a 5th & 6th? If Washington gets fed up & let him go for nothing wouldn't it be nice to have an offer on the table where Washington could call & say, "Is that offer still good?"
Maybe they lost the fax in between the Disneyland summer family deals and Disney Cruise deals.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
My belly aching (and I think most ppl here) comes from the perception that the Texans have not been pro-active in the Clowney fiasco. He was never worth two 1st rounders to the rest of the league, but the Texans have waited until the point of his lowest value (can't be extended long term) to make a final trade push.

At this point, my perception of the facts we do know is that Clowney is unhappy with the organization, likely only wants to be traded to a contender, and any compensation we receive will probably be significantly less than if we had traded him before July 15th. If we come out of this with Laremy Tunsil or even other useful player(s) packaged with good picks, my opinion will change, as long as we dont have to surrender other significant assets to make it happen. If we get pennies on the dollar, my perception will not change.

Given the facts I do know, I wish we would have concentrated on getting him back to the team after July 15th, tagged him next season, and tried the trade route again before the draft.

...unless of course we end up with a solid LT...then I reserve the right sing the organizations praises.

We can all say, "Well, we don't know all the facts, so the idea that [insert educated speculation here] is likely incorrect," but then there would be nothing to talk about. We will always see it through our perception of the facts we *do* know. We hate to admit it, but the discussion (even if its a little heated) is what makes the message board interesting.
What type of compensation would you have expected for him at his "highest" value point b/c see this is the crux of the matter for all parties involved. My opinion is that even at his supposed highest value, we weren't getting this awesome package/player in return to begin with, b/c the value we (& apparently Clowney's own percieved value) see him having, isn't what the league as a whole sees his value as. The only thing we do know is that it is somewhere below Donald/Mack but above Frank Clark & Demarcus Lawrence. & although that seems like it's pretty narrow, its actually quite wide from a monetary/value perspective.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I think people want to know the Texans tried. If they didn't/don't even make an offer knowing Williams is disgruntled, how can we expect them to be actively pursuing trade deals to make this team better?

I mean what if we find out they had no idea Jordan Howard could be had for much less than we gave for Duke Johnson? If they knew & decided a 6th was too much & preferred Johnson for what will be a third... that's one thing. But if they didn't even know, WTF are they doing on Kirby?

& wouldn't it sting to find Williams could be had for a 5th & 6th? If Washington gets fed up & let him go for nothing wouldn't it be nice to have an offer on the table where Washington could call & say, "Is that offer still good?"
I get it, I really do but what people forget is the NFL doesn't have any rules they say you have to give other teams a chance or even let it be known a player is available. Sometimes teams miss a player because they were never given an option on that player for whatever reason, and yes sometimes teams and players take a lesser offer because there is something else they want to have happen. Maybe a team doesn't want to make a rival team stronger, maybe they want to make a team in a rival's division stronger so their rival has a harder time, maybe they think they can get better trades down the line by laying the foundation now. Also sometimes the player themselves don't give a team a chance to make an offer, look at Osweiler when he left Denver.

Just because we don't hear about an offer or a deal doesn't mean it didn't take place. Sports writers talk and predict as though they have insider knowledge or as though teams have to disclose everything but 31 out of the 32 teams are basically private companies. They do not have to disclose anything to reporters beyond what the league says is public record. Want proof, then look at the fact we still don't know why Gaine was fired, why don't we know because the Texans don't want us to know. We think just because we pay money we have a right to know everything about the team and what they are doing. Well how many businesses out there do we pay money to that we have no clue as to their business plan but that's ok because we don't feel like its our right to know.

I'm not just defending the Texans, they make their share, sometimes more than their share, of bone headed moves. This crap about "The Texans don't care about winning" or "BoB is trying to sabotage this team" or "Cal is just a moron that doesn't know anything about anything." gets old super fast.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
What type of compensation would you have expected for him at his "highest" value point b/c see this is the crux of the matter for all parties involved. My opinion is that even at his supposed highest value, we weren't getting this awesome package/player in return to begin with, b/c the value we (& apparently Clowney's own percieved value) see him having, isn't what the league as a whole sees his value as. The only thing we do know is that it is somewhere below Donald/Mack but above Frank Clark & Demarcus Lawrence. & although that seems like it's pretty narrow, its actually quite wide from a monetary/value perspective.
This right here, I don't think him and his skill set are as valued in the league as what we think it is. I said before Clowney ability against the run just doesn't have the same value in the modern NFL of QBs and WRs as it did in the past. You throw in his leg and the questions about it and I don't think the Texans ever really got that many offers never mind good ones. I mean how many teams are going to look at Clowney and go either "That's the missing piece we need for a SB run" or "That's the guy we need to build our defense around." The fact Clowney is still a Texan answers both of those questions for me.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
I think people want to know the Texans tried. If they didn't/don't even make an offer knowing Williams is disgruntled, how can we expect them to be actively pursuing trade deals to make this team better?

I mean what if we find out they had no idea Jordan Howard could be had for much less than we gave for Duke Johnson? If they knew & decided a 6th was too much & preferred Johnson for what will be a third... that's one thing. But if they didn't even know, WTF are they doing on Kirby?

& wouldn't it sting to find Williams could be had for a 5th & 6th? If Washington gets fed up & let him go for nothing wouldn't it be nice to have an offer on the table where Washington could call & say, "Is that offer still good?"

TK do you really think/believe this is what is happening in the Texans front office?

Do you think they should announce every transaction they are exploring?

:coffee:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Redskins, I'm volunteering at a food pantry so will respond in bits and pieces as I can. You note the D. Brown trade almost right; Texans got a third with a second round following year so greater difference than as you indicate. Are you familiar with draft pick point system for all 7 rounds? It's a "guide only" source I like to use. I'm not going to argue that Williams is not worth two seconds. He is actually worth a first-round. However I don't see you getting 2 seconds from anyone. Most teams can't put him into cap space let alone the huge increase. Neither Twill or Scherff does anything for you got at least two years so why pay "em?
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Redskins, I'm volunteering at a food pantry so will respond in bits and pieces as I can. You note the D. Brown trade almost right; Texans got a third with a second round following year so greater difference than as you indicate. Are you familiar with draft pick point system for all 7 rounds? It's a "guide only" source I like to use. I'm not going to argue that Williams is not worth two seconds. He is actually worth a first-round. However I don't see you getting 2 seconds from anyone. Most teams can't put him into cap space let alone the huge increase. Neither Twill or Scherff does anything for you got at least two years so why pay "em?
Didn't we also have to give up a pick in the D Brown trade?
 

santo

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Meanwhile The Patriots are out there making moves the minute their Center goes down with blood clots. Two days later they are bringing in reinforcements. Same thing they did last season when Wynn went down and they went out and got Brown from San Fran.

https://nesn.com/2019/08/patriots-acquire-second-year-offensive-tackle-in-trade-with-cardinals/


This is what GM's do guys. :) (Owned the Texans again)
Tell that to Cal and OB. They thought a gm just got in the way of things.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Tell that to Cal and OB. They thought a gm just got in the way of things.
:spit: I stopped giving damn what they do years ago.

I keep saying this franchise needs a total reset. New team name, new logo, new colors, and everything. We need a full baptism and everything. They need to do whatever those weirdos do when they "bless houses." Do it all over Reliant or whatever the **** they call that stadium these days.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Meanwhile The Patriots are out there making moves the minute their Center goes down with blood clots. Two days later they are bringing in reinforcements. Same thing they did last season when Wynn went down and they went out and got Brown from San Fran.

https://nesn.com/2019/08/patriots-acquire-second-year-offensive-tackle-in-trade-with-cardinals/


This is what GM's do guys. :) (Owned the Texans again)
The Patriots lose their starting center, so they trade for a backup tackle? A guy that had PFF scores worse than Kendall Lamm? Similar pass block score to Julien Davenport? This is the move you applaud?

BTW, isn't this similar to what the Texans did with Will Fuller (trade for DT). Or similar to when they cut Foreman (trade for Duke).
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Patriots lose their starting center, so they trade for a backup tackle? A guy that had PFF scores worse than Kendall Lamm? Similar pass block score to Julien Davenport? This is the move you applaud?

BTW, isn't this similar to what the Texans did with Will Fuller (trade for DT). Or similar to when they cut Foreman (trade for Duke).
Man if BoB did this, the MB would crash from all the crying
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Meanwhile The Patriots are out there making moves the minute their Center goes down with blood clots. Two days later they are bringing in reinforcements. Same thing they did last season when Wynn went down and they went out and got Brown from San Fran.

https://nesn.com/2019/08/patriots-acquire-second-year-offensive-tackle-in-trade-with-cardinals/


This is what GM's do guys. :) (Owned the Texans again)
How does that help their center position by bringing in a swing-tackle?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
So why are you still here on a daily basis?
Because I root for Houston teams.

But do I care a whole lot if the Texans are face planting? No, because I expect them to do so at some point under McNair/Smith/Kubiak/Gaine/OB leadership. They are always a day late and a dollar short to the party since this team's inception. I'll root for them, but I don't get emotional over them anymore.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
The Patriots lose their starting center, so they trade for a backup tackle? A guy that had PFF scores worse than Kendall Lamm? Similar pass block score to Julien Davenport? This is the move you applaud?

BTW, isn't this similar to what the Texans did with Will Fuller (trade for DT). Or similar to when they cut Foreman (trade for Duke).
Yeah, because the Pats have one of the best Online coaches in the entire league. Look at what they did with Brown last season when he was a nobody on the 49ers. Maybe this guy will help. Maybe won't, but at least they're out there making moves and doing what it takes to fill the holes that come up on their team. Unlike the Texans who are going into what year 3 or 4 with a terrible Oline?
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Because I root for Houston teams.

But do I care a whole lot if the Texans are face planting? No, because I expect them to do so at some point under McNair/Smith/Kubiak/Gaine/OB leadership. They are always a day late and a dollar short to the party since this team's inception. I'll root for them, but I don't get emotional over them anymore.
Ok, your phrase " I stopped giving damn what they do years ago" paints a different picture
 
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