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Trent Williams LT Available

Porky said:
Agree with Tex. A healthy TW, and growth of these rookies will vault this line into a top 12 unit. Totally agree. That's enough to make this offense sing like Frank Sinatra on his best day.
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Starting the season off with a healthy Fuller and Hopkins and you've got some guns going.
 
Washington turned down an offer from NE of a 2020 first rounder.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...turned-down-first-rounder-for-trent-williams/

Another related article on PFT - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...g-to-terms-with-the-trent-williams-situation/

Anger, denial, bargaining, depression. Acceptance.

After five months, it’s possible Washington finally has reached the fifth stage of grief regarding the demise of their relationship with tackle Trent Williams — and that the organization has now embarked on getting the best possible deal for him.

When a report emerged a few weeks ago that Washington was “having trade talks” regarding Williams, the team leaked that it’s not shopping Williams, and that it hopes daily fines in the amount of $40,000 will get him to show up. If, as it appears, the team leaked that it rejected New England’s offer of a 2020 first-round pick for Williams, the team apparently has finally realized that trading Williams is the only viable solution to the problem.

Although it’s always hard to interpret the moves and messages of a dysfunctional organization, the reason for leaking the rejected trade offer is obvious: It essentially invites other interested teams to make an offer, and it sets the floor for trade talks at the bottom of round one, given that’s where the Patriots almost always draft.

The report has sparked chatter in league circles regarding what Washington wants for Williams, including one hypothesis that Washington’s wish list is topped by what likely amounts to a pipe dream: Chiefs receiver Tyreek Hill. Even if the Chiefs are thinking about moving on from Hill in lieu of paying him more than $20 million per year, the better approach would be to tag and trade him after the season, like they did with pass-rusher Dee Ford earlier this year.

Besides, the Chiefs don’t need Williams. And even if they did, Hill would be a lot to surrender to get a guy who has made it clear that he’s done playing for Washington.

That’s what ultimately will make it hard for Williams to get more than a low first-round pick, if it’s true that New England made that offer. Barring an auction among multiple teams that would drive the price up, it will be very hard for Washington to get significant compensation for a player who by all appearances will never play for Washington again.
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thunderkyss said:
But they had Trent Brown. Why didn't they lock him up if they are willing to give a 2020 1st for Trent Williams.
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Good question and that's a lot for the tight-azz Pats to pay for a player so it sounds like Belichick is pretty dank nervous bout Issaih Wynn being the man to protect Brady.
I dunno where does this leave the Texans ?
 
If the Texans trade for Trent Williams, wouldn't be surprised if the Redskins are looking for a package similar to the one the Bears unloaded for Mack. Texans trade for a guy like this....make the trade then get him signed to an extension.

The Raiders gained a 2019 RD1, 2020 RD1, 2019 RD6 and a 2020 RD3.

The Bears gained OLB- Mack and a 2020 RD2.

I'd say dominant LT's are in higher demand than dominant OLB'ers. Personally, the Redskins wouldn't have to accept less for a top LT. It'd be a steep price but if I were OB, I'd understand the pressing need for a dominant LT that could help unleash this offense.....it could keep him out of the unemployment line.
 
I doubt and very much hope that the Texans wouldn't do a deal anything like Chicago did. TW is
a very good LT, but he is also 31 not 26. This would very likely be his last contract and there are some injury issues. JD and a 2020 second would be reasonable value for both and address a need on both teams.
 
thunderkyss said:
But they had Trent Brown. Why didn't they lock him up if they are willing to give a 2020 1st for Trent Williams.
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Not sure how true that offer really is. That would be very surprising from Belicheck to offer a 1st rounder for a 30 year old. I haven't read anywhere that the Pats Oline was playing atrocious either with rookie 1st round pick Wynn. It would be a great addition though.

Brown would be more like a short term deal paying a guy for two to three years tops compared to Brown who got a lot more money than what Williams will. Brown may not be as good as he was last season either once he gets paid.
 
edo783 said:
I doubt and very much hope that the Texans wouldn't do a deal anything like Chicago did. TW is
a very good LT, but he is also 31 not 26. This would very likely be his last contract and there are some injury issues. JD and a 2020 second would be reasonable value for both and address a need on both teams.
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To much if you ask me.

Clowney by itself is a very reasonable deal.
 
BmtTXN said:
Because even when Trent Brown was with the Patriots, Trent Williams>Trent Brown.
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Understood. I'm asking if the Patriots has a need for an offensive tackle & they thought Brown was worth keeping, they could have offered him a much more reasonable deal, in line with his ability before he became a FA. But they didn't.

They knew from the get go he was a stop gap.
 
thunderkyss said:
Understood. I'm asking if the Patriots has a need for an offensive tackle & they thought Brown was worth keeping, they could have offered him a much more reasonable deal, in line with his ability before he became a FA. But they didn't.

They knew from the get go he was a stop gap.
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They figured that, but they didn't think he'd become the highest sought after FA the next off season breaking record deals with a max contract. No one saw that coming, and that was one of the dumbest deals I've seen in NFL history. Brown will never live up to that contract. The NFL owners are some of the dumbest clowns I've seen in all of sports. The idea that every FA that is slightly above average gets to break the last position guy's max contract every time they resign with a team is nuts. Those deals are terrible.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If the Texans trade for Trent Williams, wouldn't be surprised if the Redskins are looking for a package similar to the one the Bears unloaded for Mack. Texans trade for a guy like this....make the trade then get him signed to an extension.

The Raiders gained a 2019 RD1, 2020 RD1, 2019 RD6 and a 2020 RD3.

The Bears gained OLB- Mack and a 2020 RD2.

I'd say dominant LT's are in higher demand than dominant OLB'ers. Personally, the Redskins wouldn't have to accept less for a top LT. It'd be a steep price but if I were OB, I'd understand the pressing need for a dominant LT that could help unleash this offense.....it could keep him out of the unemployment line.
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Difference is Mack was still willing to play for the Raiders, William's, according to some reports, has said he won't play for the skins. If that's true then that takes away some of the skins bargaining power. They still could demand a high price, and I expect they will, but other teams know that the skins are dealing with at least an unhappy player if not downright disgruntled.
 
Texecutioner said:
They figured that, but they didn't think he'd become the highest sought after FA the next off season breaking record deals with a max contract. No one saw that coming, and that was one of the dumbest deals I've seen in NFL history. Brown will never live up to that contract. The NFL owners are some of the dumbest clowns I've seen in all of sports. The idea that every FA that is slightly above average gets to break the last position guy's max contract every time they resign with a team is nuts. Those deals are terrible.
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Careful. We've got some here who would have paid Brown to be our LT.
 
Texecutioner said:
They figured that, but they didn't think he'd become the highest sought after FA the next off season breaking record deals with a max contract. No one saw that coming, and that was one of the dumbest deals I've seen in NFL history. Brown will never live up to that contract. The NFL owners are some of the dumbest clowns I've seen in all of sports. The idea that every FA that is slightly above average gets to break the last position guy's max contract every time they resign with a team is nuts. Those deals are terrible.
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To be fair that was more the Raiders and how stupid they have been this off season. Making a LT that was still middle of the pack even though he was guarding the GOAT QB, coached by a HoF HC and Oline coach the highest paid ever was par for the course. They also signed the diva Antonia Brown who currently won't play because he wants to keep his helmet and Incognito who, issues in Miami aside, has noted mental problems which led him to try and have his father's corpse decapitated. Not saying NFL teams aren't dumb but Raiders are proving to be particular brand of stupid.

All of this to guard and support Derek Carr. Really stop and think about that for a minute.
 
thunderkyss said:
Understood. I'm asking if the Patriots has a need for an offensive tackle & they thought Brown was worth keeping, they could have offered him a much more reasonable deal, in line with his ability before he became a FA. But they didn't.

They knew from the get go he was a stop gap.
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Isn't that more the Patriot Way though? They had Solder, gone. They had Brown, gone. There's a list we could go through and it would look the same. Pretty good players that they don't pay or overpay for and then let them go. They seem to be able to plug in players, albeit above average players and not really skip a beat.
 
thunderkyss said:
Careful. We've got some here who would have paid Brown to be our LT.
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I would have to until I saw that his stock got way inflated as it did. He was great in the post season, but the regular season he wasn't. The Pats Oline had plenty of struggles in the regular season. Once I saw the range he was going to get offers in, I was totally out of that. Max contracts are starting to become one of the worst things any team can do. Very few players at any position are worth it. The entire structure of how so many of these "good at best" players get way over paid is atrocious. So glad as a Pats fan that Belicheck rarely ever does it. Texans don't to much either which is good.
 
maverick512000 said:
To be fair that was more the Raiders and how stupid they have been this off season. Making a LT that was still middle of the pack even though he was guarding the GOAT QB, coached by a HoF HC and Oline coach the highest paid ever was par for the course. They also signed the diva Antonia Brown who currently won't play because he wants to keep his helmet and Incognito who, issues in Miami aside, has noted mental problems which led him to try and have his father's corpse decapitated. Not saying NFL teams aren't dumb but Raiders are proving to be particular brand of stupid.
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All types of NFL teams sign these guys to max contracts. Even most of the elite players aren't worth max deals. You let them walk, and find other talent where you can provide quality depth on your team is a much better plan to me. For example will Thomas be worth 21 Mill a season to the Saints? Maybe he will. But would two quality WR's at 10 mill a piece be just as good or better? That's possible to, but that also gives you more talent to have on your roster instead of depending on one guy to carry your passing game who also might become a jackass once he's made so much money. That's also a factor when guys get max deals. Look how many of them tank it on efforts. Look at all of those 90Mill plus guys at DE who never measure up to their max contracts
 
BmtTXN said:
Isn't that more the Patriot Way though? They had Solder, gone. They had Brown, gone. There's a list we could go through and it would look the same. Pretty good players that they don't pay or overpay for and then let them go. They seem to be able to plug in players, albeit above average players and not really skip a beat.
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That is Brady and his ability to get rid of the ball fast when it comes to Olineman for the Pats.

They don't have that same luxury at every other position.
 
Given the age and some fairly significant injury history I'm really hesitant to give up even one first rounder, much less two.

I'd offer our 2nd rounders the next two years - 2020 and 2021. Considering Williams really, really does not want to play for the Skins, they should take that deal and be happy they got two potential starters for him.

But if that doesn't do it, I'd leave it at that and just roll with what we've got and hope it's good enough.

And BTW I see no clear path to include Clowney on this trade. The skins can't sign him to an extension, and Clowney isn't going to resign with a crappy org like Washington. He'll play this year and then walk. I don't see that as even a remote possibility in a trade.
 
Porky said:
Given the age and some fairly significant injury history I'm really hesitant to give up even one first rounder, much less two.

I'd offer our 2nd rounders the next two years - 2020 and 2021. Considering Williams really, really does not want to play for the Skins, they should take that deal and be happy they got two potential starters for him.

But if that doesn't do it, I'd leave it at that and just roll with what we've got and hope it's good enough.

And BTW I see no clear path to include Clowney on this trade. The skins can't sign him to an extension, and Clowney isn't going to resign with a crappy org like Washington. He'll play this year and then walk. I don't see that as even a remote possibility in a trade.
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A 2nd and a 4th or it is to much unless a player is involved.

And where are you getting that Clowney won't sign with this organization or that organization. He told you that? He'll go wherever he can find a team dumb enough to pay him the inflated amount his agent demands. He isn't some highly sought after player that other teams are lining up for. Not sure why so many homerish Texans fans can't wake up to that.

If Washington won't take fair deals for Williams then I guess they're sending a message to the players not to hold out, because it won't work with them. Sometimes that is the right approach for the organization. Either way, an aging Olineman could help, but not to put ourselves in a big hole for investment wise. I'd rather let the rookies develop then.
 
JB said:
If traded, he can be signed to a long term deal by a new team
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There's some debate surrounding that, but the preponderance of the evidence that I've seen suggests that he wouldn't be able to sign a LT extension with a team until after this season. Which means that if he goes to a team he isn't wild about, he can walk after this one season. And that's even if he signs his tender. He's in complete control at this point.
 
Porky said:
There's some debate surrounding that, but the preponderance of the evidence that I've seen suggests that he wouldn't be able to sign a LT extension with a team until after this season. Which means that if he goes to a team he isn't wild about, he can walk after this one season. And that's even if he signs his tender. He's in complete control at this point.
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His only control is to sit or play. Texans don't have to move him. They can but do not have to.
 
badboy said:
His only control is to sit or play. Texans don't have to move him. They can but do not have to.
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My impression is that Cloweny wants to be with his teammates playing football getting paid lots and lots of money thererfor I suspect he'll sign
so he can play in the NFL in 2019. Do you think he'll sign the tender BB ?
 
Texecutioner said:
Not sure how true that offer really is.
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All I've been reading says it wasn't true. The whole story appears to be bogus.

JB said:
If traded, he can be signed to a long term deal by a new team
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I thought we were done with this already. JD can't be extended by anybody until after the season. He either signs the FT and plays for that only, with the Texans or anybody else if traded, or he sits. Those are the only options. No extensions, no new contract by anybody until after the season.
 
Tweet from @FieldYates: The Patriots are not - and have not been - in the business of trading for Redskins OT Trent Williams. They did not offer a first round pick for him. He's not on their radar.

Did the Redskins leak this to trick OBrien?
 
frethack said:
He can be signed to a long term deal after the season. He is locked into playing this season on the tag (assuming he signs the tender), even if he agrees to a sign and trade.
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Porky said:
There's some debate surrounding that, but the preponderance of the evidence that I've seen suggests that he wouldn't be able to sign a LT extension with a team until after this season. Which means that if he goes to a team he isn't wild about, he can walk after this one season. And that's even if he signs his tender. He's in complete control at this point.
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Speedy said:
All I've been reading says it wasn't true. The whole story appears to be bogus.



I thought we were done with this already. JD can't be extended by anybody until after the season. He either signs the FT and plays for that only, with the Texans or anybody else if traded, or he sits. Those are the only options. No extensions, no new contract by anybody until after the season.
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(k) Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.
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https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Seems to say only prior club, not subsequent club
 
TheKDog said:
Tweet from @FieldYates: The Patriots are not - and have not been - in the business of trading for Redskins OT Trent Williams. They did not offer a first round pick for him. He's not on their radar.

Did the Redskins leak this to trick OBrien?
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Makes more sense than letting Brown walk then offering a first for a guy playing that position.

If anyone leaked anything, it's probably the 'skins trying to get BO'b to outdo Belichick
 
JB said:
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Seems to say only prior club, not subsequent club
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Here's how I see it....

A player can only sign the one year franchise tag with his current team. Do we agree on that? Well...I take that back. He can sign elsewhere but it costs the other team 2 number one draft picks which ain't happening.

I'm going to assume that we can all agree he either signs the franchise tag here, or he sits.

It also says once he is signed, he cannot be signed to an extension..by anyone. Do we agree on that part?

Again assuming that is a yes. So, to me that means in a trade scenario, if Clowney is willing to be moved to a new team, he signs his 1 year deal here - the team then makes the trade, and Clowney plays under that one year deal. The new team cannot sign him to an extension any more than the Texans can during this season. After the season, if Clowney is willing, then he could be signed to an extension with his new team.
 
thunderkyss said:
Makes more sense than letting Brown walk then offering a first for a guy playing that position.

If anyone leaked anything, it's probably the 'skins trying to get BO'b to outdo Belichick
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That... or after this offseason we are so drastically improved that no one can tell us apart from the Patriots and the Redskins turned down the Texans.....

Im sure that OB is ofering 2 first and 3 seconds if he thinks of Trent in a Pats jersey.
 
]
TheKDog said:
Tweet from @FieldYates: The Patriots are not - and have not been - in the business of trading for Redskins OT Trent Williams. They did not offer a first round pick for him. He's not on their radar.

Did the Redskins leak this to trick OBrien?
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Possible, I’m guessing they might be starting to sweat a bit. They’ve got a high dollar, high profile player that has been MIA all off season with various people saying he won’t play for the skins again. Meanwhile Washington has been doing its best Baghdad Bob impression and saying everything is fine.

Now we are a week from the season starting, most of the heavy spenders have long since blown their load and many of the rest of the teams either don’t need a starter LT or are going to roll with what they have. Biggest possible exception to that might be the Texans as even if Kalil wasn’t blocking like the field was made of ice being out a week before the season starts is not a good sign injury wise.

Yeah I can see the skins starting to put some pressure on. Question is was this a masterful game of chicken Texans are playing or are they also doing there best Baghdad Bob (no pun intended) impression with the LT spot?
 
Porky said:
Here's how I see it....

A player can only sign the one year franchise tag with his current team. Do we agree on that? Well...I take that back. He can sign elsewhere but it costs the other team 2 number one draft picks which ain't happening.

I'm going to assume that we can all agree he either signs the franchise tag here, or he sits.

It also says once he is signed, he cannot be signed to an extension..by anyone. Do we agree on that part?

Again assuming that is a yes. So, to me that means in a trade scenario, if Clowney is willing to be moved to a new team, he signs his 1 year deal here - the team then makes the trade, and Clowney plays under that one year deal. The new team cannot sign him to an extension any more than the Texans can during this season. After the season, if Clowney is willing, then he could be signed to an extension with his new team.
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Right. He can’t be traded until he signs, and once he signs he plays under the tag. That can not change no matter who he plays for, UNTIL THE SEASON IS OVER.
 
Texecutioner said:
They figured that, but they didn't think he'd become the highest sought after FA the next off season breaking record deals with a max contract. No one saw that coming, and that was one of the dumbest deals I've seen in NFL history. Brown will never live up to that contract. The NFL owners are some of the dumbest clowns I've seen in all of sports. The idea that every FA that is slightly above average gets to break the last position guy's max contract every time they resign with a team is nuts. Those deals are terrible.
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Disagree

If Carr is the guy the Raiders will be contenders when they get to Vegas and if he isn't Gruden will move on. They've invested a 1st for their LT and signed Brown to be the RT that can move to LT if Miller fails. They also invested in Incognito (Cheaply) and word is he's had a good camp.

I would bet on a talented 25 yr old that was the starting LT that won a SB improving and you have to overpay for those kinds of guys even if they're only middle of the pack players. Because would rigth now would you rather have to overpay Trent Brown to protect Watson's blindside or do you feel comfortable with Kalil? I wouldn't want to overpay but I would. Of course I would've given up what it took to draft Dillard.
 
Texecutioner said:
A 2nd and a 4th or it is to much unless a player is involved.

And where are you getting that Clowney won't sign with this organization or that organization. He told you that? He'll go wherever he can find a team dumb enough to pay him the inflated amount his agent demands. He isn't some highly sought after player that other teams are lining up for. Not sure why so many homerish Texans fans can't wake up to that.

If Washington won't take fair deals for Williams then I guess they're sending a message to the players not to hold out, because it won't work with them. Sometimes that is the right approach for the organization. Either way, an aging Olineman could help, but not to put ourselves in a big hole for investment wise. I'd rather let the rookies develop then.
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Williams is 31 yrs old, he should have 4 good yrs left in him. Unfortunately with his injury history he will only probably last 2. Would you front load a contract for 2 yrs with Williams so you would be cap free to sign Watson to an extension? The thought of an all pro LT protecting Watson appeals to me and the Texans have the 2nd most cap space in the league.
 
IDEXAN said:
My impression is that Cloweny wants to be with his teammates playing football getting paid lots and lots of money thererfor I suspect he'll sign
so he can play in the NFL in 2019. Do you think he'll sign the tender BB ?
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Yes he will play for Texans if our LT is resolved without JD being traded for one. A solid LT and healthy #4 should terrorfy 31 DCs. He does not want to be number two but who can complain being number two to JJ Watt? Even more so when Watt seems to love JD. More than most, I think JD wants to play for a winner and still get big bucks. Few can offer him that combination other than Houston. Some time ago on my college thread off-season IIRC, I suggested a heavily front loaded contract for JD and in another post a similar deal for Twill. With Williams my thought was to push Patriots out of the bidding as did Rockets with Jeremy Lin and New Jersey. Texans began the new scheme front loading with JJ Watt new contract. I recently found an article at over the Cap. Com giving similar examples. I would risk GTD 2 years plus part of third. Always a risk of an injury to any player, I think I would take that risk with JD. It's important to remember that Clowney gets zero money sitting out and his health does not improve. Houston can tag him two more seasons after this one controlling his income for that time. Le'Veon Bell showed silliness of sitting out for a year.

More than you asked, sorry.
 
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TheKDog said:
Tweet from @FieldYates: The Patriots are not - and have not been - in the business of trading for Redskins OT Trent Williams. They did not offer a first round pick for him. He's not on their radar.

Did the Redskins leak this to trick OBrien?
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In my opinion it was some analyst trying to drum up attention. It would not be unreasonable as New England recently increased cap space by a pseudo extension of Brady. Most would agree that a 7 X pro bowler that's 31 years of age is worth a first-round pick especially end of the round where Patriots usually select.
 
badboy said:
His only control is to sit or play. Texans don't have to move him. They can but do not have to.
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How does that intergrate with the CAP and his Pay? does he still effect the cap space if he sits out and does he still collect all the money from the Tag? Say he comes back mid-season, and pulls a Duane Brown, then will be owed the first half of the seasons money along with the remaining still valued on the rest of his contract for the remainder of the season and if he gets hurt and doesn't play past say week 10 then does he still get paid for those weeks he doesn't play?
 
badboy said:
In my opinion it was some analyst trying to drum up attention. It would not be unreasonable as New England recently increased cap space by a pseudo extension of Brady. Most would agree that a 7 X pro bowler that's 31 years of age is worth a first-round pick especially end of the round where Patriots usually select.
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I'm calling it now... Belicheck trades for Jimmy grahm before week 6 from the Green Bay Packers
 
Pharaohcious said:
I'm calling it now... Belicheck trades for Jimmy grahm before week 6 from the Green Bay Packers
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I dunno what time restrictions if any are placed on trades by the CBA ? In other words can teams execute a trade any time of the year be it during the regular season or in the offseason ?
 
thunderkyss said:
Makes more sense than letting Brown walk then offering a first for a guy playing that position.

If anyone leaked anything, it's probably the 'skins trying to get BO'b to outdo Belichick
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That's always worked out well for BO'B in the past! Has there been anything that O'Brien has outdone Belichick in that deals with being successful?
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno what time restrictions if any are placed on trades by the CBA ? In other words can teams execute a trade any time of the year be it during the regular season or in the offseason ?
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IIRC, the trade deadline is usually around Week 8 or so. Perhaps week 6 if the prior post is correct.

As long as the trade is done before the deadline, it's perfectly fine.
 
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