Shishkabob
All Pro
Idk what's worse, watching Davenport whiff and not even get a hand on a DE, or watching Griffin and Miller both whiff on a double team so Watson couldn't hit a wide open Smith for a 60+ yard touchdown
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Idk what's worse, watching Davenport whiff and not even get a hand on a DE, or watching Griffin and Miller both whiff on a double team so Watson couldn't hit a wide open Smith for a 60+ yard touchdown
Agree. I would also like to stop seeing Griffin crossing the formation to make a block and then totally missing the incoming rusher. That would also help the OL.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
The Texans could have beat the Colts (2nd game and Philly game) if Bill OBrien isnt such a ***** and actually takes a shot at long field goals.
but yea the offensive line sucks, it has all year with spot 'average' weeks but why is this some big revelation? Guess what WATER IS WET!!! Can you believe that!
Smart coach would have done more than "keeping in the TE for max protect, what else do yall want?" .. LOL
but yea the offensive line sucks, it has all year with spot 'average' weeks but why is this some big revelation? Guess what WATER IS WET!!! Can you believe that!
Smart coach would have done more than "keeping in the TE for max protect, what else do yall want?" .. LOL
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
As stated by earlier poster, 2 TD bombs were missed by DW4, he usually nails those, one to DT and other to Nuk, so plenty of blame to go around, DW4 missed some passes and blitzes, RAC and his D got run over, BOB had some lame calls. Just improve some of this and we win, so hope
I'm just hoping for one of those "spot 'average' weeks" where they only give up 1 or 2 sacks instead of 7 or 8 and, they impose their will in the run game with at least 150 yards on the ground! Is that too much to ask?
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Yes I saw that but why would we put Nuk in slot? We have no one for outside. A RB chipping only needs get past rusher then present to passer.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Enjoy back and forth but totally disagree on scenario I'm talking about. Solo rusher within couple yards of LOS with no RB is sole responsibility of Watson who sees him then ignores.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
furthermore, Lamar Miller is AWFUL at pass blocking, like cringe worthy stuff. Same with all the TEs , they just suck at pass blocking. No amount of coaching will ever fix that. So for me the next logical step would be to introduce multiple hot reads, and blitz beaters .. 5-8 yard stops, outs, comebacks and RB outlets that will nullify the blitz and actually create a positive play and keep the chains moving. Instead we get more of the same stuff that hasnt worked all year. Insane. Im praying at night to little baby Jesus that Bill OBrien has been saving all the good stuff for the playoffs. I mean there has to be some creative stuff tucked away right?
Shishkabob
All Pro
It's simple, you move your best player around to get the most favorable matchups. Football is a chess match, like you said we have no other weapons really whether outside or inside, so if you line up Nuk outside every single snap it becomes real easy for the DC to call plays to shut him down, but now he is guessing where are they going to line him up on this play, "oh **** he is in the slot on the left side, and I was expecting him to be out wide right, quick adjust" Late adjustments lead to blown assignments, which leads to positive plays
This is an area where coaching could improve.
But with the likes of Mitchell/Carter/Smith at WR I think the risk/reward ratio isn't currently there. I mean most of these guys were on the street a month ago.
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Shishkabob
All Pro
I think this is where QT can help a lot actually. There is a reason why he ate up so many targets, and its because he has a natural ability to find the hole in coverage and be that hot route to beat the blitz. From what I've seen from him at Tech, and the small amount he has played here he just has a very natural feel for the slot position. Plus he can turn that 3 yard check down on 3rd and 8, into 12 yards giving us a first down
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I like QT - he should be a big help for Watson if Watson can learn that a quick checkdown for 5 yards is much more desirable than a 10 yard sack. Well sure, he knows that but he does hang onto the ball too long hoping for that big play every snap he isn't handing it off.
You've just described a young QB that's still learning on the job.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just my two but I think those having most success against Nuk or AJ back when followed them wherever they went so not surprised. I just don't want to depend on Hopkins to get me a three yard first down. Our RBs including Blue have been able to catch pass line of scrimmage as have the TE rookies; use 'em.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Indy's OLine is one of the best in the NFL (#3 according to PFF metrics) have a couple of stud draft picks, but have also changed the culture of the program by bringing in Frank Reich and the offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo who has taken a cast off in Glowinski and turned him into a borderline pro bowler just working on the fundamentals. Maybe Bill OBrien should reevaluate his coaching staff and actually try and target guys who know what the hell they are doing?
https://twitter.com/NFL_DougFarrar/status/1080838271863648257
DeGuglielmo on coaching:
https://www.colts.com/news/coach-speak-dave-deguglielmo-talks-colts-offensive-line
https://twitter.com/NFL_DougFarrar/status/1080838271863648257
DeGuglielmo on coaching:
https://www.colts.com/news/coach-speak-dave-deguglielmo-talks-colts-offensive-line
Shishkabob
All Pro
I mean they aren't relying on him to play slot, and get those 3 yard first downs they just move him around to exploit matchups. Slot receivers normally get covered by the teams weakest corner, a safety, or sometimes a LB even. You try to find different ways to exploit the defense. I think our TEs and RBs would be used more in the passing game if our line could handle pass blocking without their help, but they are normally left in to block or chip
Shishkabob
All Pro
Probably my biggest criticism of OB this season is retaining Devlin. It's crazy that multiple people have came out in support of Devlin saying he is a good line coach, as I haven't seen the results here or in NY when he was there. Maybe he is a genius on the white board, but has troubles translating it to the players? But I have seen to many fundamental problems with our line, not just poor talent but poor first steps, poor pass blocking sets, etc to believe he is good at coaching.
It also helps to have 1st rd Constanzo.1st rd Nelson/1st rd Kelly/Glowinski/2nd rd Smith around him.
I'm on board with letting Devlin go.
I've never heard Devlin speak, or read anything he said. It's plain to see that Guglielmo is no wordsmith .... but he understands offensive line. The main ingredient is the players he's gotten. There is just no substitute for talent. I guess we've got to wait for DW4 to get killed as badly as Luck, to qualify for draft picks like that !
Kelly was a mid 1st rd pick.
Smith was a 2nd rd pick
I could settle for that. LOL
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frethack
Rookie
We need a full reinvestment in the Oline...players and coaches
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Tom Cable had a shitload of talent everywhere he's been and ruined almost every guy he's coached. Coaching matters just as much as talent. Good coaches will get guys to live up to their potential. Sure having 2 first round picks and a high 2nd helps immensely, but then you need to be able to hit on those picks too otherwise it turns into a shitshow real fast. Highly drafted OL have about a 40-50% wash rate. I agree with you overall though, good talent + a good coach and you have something special. Add in a Head Coach who will understand tendency and strength, or who will modify his plan of attack to have the opponent show his hand, and then go back to the original plan once he has the other team clocked. Its all a symbiotic method of success. Im hoping that if Indy goes back to a jumbo package that OBrien has put RAC on notice about those looks and contingency plans to nullify. OBrien himself should have learned a ton over the 2 meetings with Indy so hopefully the vanilla regular season playcalling is out of the window. Win or go home (stay home in our case).
Next yr is when we will find out if the issues are coaching or talent or a combination of both.
It's hard to wait for next year while this year is still here...
Dude, I just want to enjoy football as long as I can... do you have any idea how long the off-season is going to be?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I love de spiced coffee Sunday mornings contemplating next week eating beans
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Always thought a brisk early morning walk in de woods or morning swims kept you young whippersnappers fresh. Don't get on edge my friend... we have zero control
For the record I think they're going to win tomorrow.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I was thinking today that Texans need not toss out the whole oline to be vastly improved next year.
All they need to do for next season is snag a decent LT in FA (unless they think they can get a decent starter in the draft) and either draft or grab a FA Guard.
Bill O'Brien wants to (rightly) run the rock and to do that all you need is a road grader at guard plus a serviceable rest of the line.
I think we are good enough at center with Martin but we definitely need a LT and the aforementioned guard.
The rest of the current line we trim down to those who are acceptable.
If we can get a solid LT and G, I think the oline will be markedly improved.
Sure, if you can secure another good one, like RT then go ahead, but you won't make this oline a world beater in one offseason unless you are very lucky.
I'm thinking if we can get one good olineman from the draft, we will still have three more high picks for other important areas like CB, WR and possibly RB - depending on Foreman's recovery.
All they need to do for next season is snag a decent LT in FA (unless they think they can get a decent starter in the draft) and either draft or grab a FA Guard.
Bill O'Brien wants to (rightly) run the rock and to do that all you need is a road grader at guard plus a serviceable rest of the line.
I think we are good enough at center with Martin but we definitely need a LT and the aforementioned guard.
The rest of the current line we trim down to those who are acceptable.
If we can get a solid LT and G, I think the oline will be markedly improved.
Sure, if you can secure another good one, like RT then go ahead, but you won't make this oline a world beater in one offseason unless you are very lucky.
I'm thinking if we can get one good olineman from the draft, we will still have three more high picks for other important areas like CB, WR and possibly RB - depending on Foreman's recovery.
Getting one good lineman and saving three early picks for other important areas is exactly the ideology that has put us in this position. I know that we need DBs, and RBs, and TEs, and backup QB's, but if we ever just bit the bullet, stayed the course, and actually filled out a line with a group of truly talented players, we might very well end up with something resembling a dynasty. BTW, I'm sure you that know - Duane Brown was the only 1st round offensive lineman we have ever drafted.
badboy
Hall of Fame
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah! I want that decent starting left tackle free agent! I want him! Oh yes I do. Where did he go? Wait where is he? Come out come out wherever you are?
Hmm... I think we're in this position because Duane Brown got sideways & no one on Kirby could get through to him.
I think we're in this position because we couldn't see exactly what we were looking for in Ben Jones, Brandon Brooks, & XSF. All starting for other teams now (XSF may be due to injury) so we spend a 2nd on Martin who's yet to prove to be a replacement for any of the three. Heck, I think his backup is a better Center.
We'll be drafting at 32. Maybe 26. How many stud LTs do you think will be there? I'd rather not trade up for a LT, but if you do... don't miss.
I'd rather trade down out of the first & get a starting Center. Bank the extra picks we get sp next year we'll have the capital to move up if we need to, to get what we want.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Traded back to 1.26 to take him.
Not all draft years fall even remotely close so don't see the connection.
The only real talent I see for left tackle is Jonah Williams .... and he'll be gone in the top 7 or 8. I've watched Little in 5 or 6 games. I am missing what everyone else is seeing. He looks like he's "just going through the motions" to me .... I can't see any enthusiasm or tenacity. Dalton Risner and Mitch Hyatt are both solid offensive linemen - they both vaguely remind me Garrett Bolles for Denver. For some reason, I haven't seen Dillard this year. A lot depends on the combine, but if David Edwards remains where he is now, (34 - 43), I'd think seriously about him for RT .... especially the way Bob likes to run the ball.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I was on the CBS Sports site and they did a RD1 Mock. It was interesting to see how players fell in their draft. Couple of thoughts I came away with:
1. They had the Texans drafting RT-C / Dalton Risner, Kansas State. Man, I like this pick and if he's brought in to be the future at RT or C....the Texans don't lose on this pick not to mention he's a versatile OL which fits OB's MO.
2. In their Mock LT / Yodney Cajuste, West Virginia was drafted after Risner. That could be a reach but between teams needing QB's and the majority of top rated players reside on defense.....there could be a possibility that both Risner and Cajuste slide deeper into RD1.
3. In this Mock, the Raiders select Edge / Montez Sweat, Florida State with their 3rd RD1 pick which is after the Texans pick but before the Cajuste selection. Raiders want an Edge and the Texans have an Edge.
4. I'd tag Clowney and offer him to the Raiders for their RD1-3rd pick, RD3 and RD4. The Raiders have the cap and need to make a move like this and not hurt their team in the long run. The option of Sweat versus Clowney should be easy if the team could agree on package of picks. I could lose Clowney if it meant getting the OL shored up for the next few years.
5. I'd like the idea of being in a position to select both Cajuste and Risner n RD1 and possibly getting Hyatt later in the draft. That would be a solid group of OL from the draft.....then include 1 solid veteran LT FA to bridge the development of either Cajuste or Hyatt.
Just a thought based on a Mock Draft.
Did you see Little's guy beat him? I agree he's not physical enough in the run game, but is very good in pass pro. There's not going to be a perfect pick that late in the 1st rd. But Little is undeniably talented with warts just like DB was when he was drafted. Luckily DB had HOF'er Gibbs working with him. Little has that kind of talent, but I'm not feeling good about Devlin being the man that gets the most out of Little's talent.
Kurt Warner just said 44 of DW4's 62 sacks have occurred after 4.5 seconds.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Was that due to a standing pocket or Watson's mobility to extend the play? I can help on the first part....there never has been a standing 4.5 second pocket for Watson.
I wonder how many of those were in max protection where there were only a couple receivers running routes. That would certainly cause any QB to hold the ball a bit waiting for some one to work their way open
If there was ever a game that shows the value of having a great O-line this is it! The Colts O-line has completely controlled the LOS and Luck has all day in the pocket! It would take a miracle of epic proportions for the Texans to come back from this one! Hope Gaine is taking notes for this years draft and FA because if not this team will be looking up at the Colts for a long time to come.
Only issue I have with that is you'd think Jj Watt & Clowney should even things up a bit.
We got 1st round corners, safety, 2nd round LBs...
It shouldn't be this lopsided
We might not want to follow the Colts' model. it took 7 years and near career homicide of their QB before they finally put together a plus OL.