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State of the O-line

steelbtexan said:
Hyatt not looking good at all today.
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Third-rounder, perhaps another SEC guy who moves inside in the NFL ?
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Below is the list of OTs so far expected to attend the Senior Bowl, looking forward to those one-on-one drills.
https://www.seniorbowl.com/accepted-invites.php?position=OT&conference=&s_id=
  • Yodny Cajuste
    West Virginia
    OT 6-5 321 Big 12


  • Dennis Daley
    South Carolina
    OT 6-6 324 SEC


  • Nate Davis
    Charlotte
    OT 6-3 311 C-USA


  • Andre Dillard
    Washington State
    OT 6-5 306 Pac-12


  • Chuma Edoga
    USC
    OT 6-4 295 Pac-12


  • Tytus Howard
    Alabama State
    OT 6-6 311 FCS


  • Kaleb McGary
    Washington
    OT 6-8 324 Pac-12


  • Dalton Risner
    Kansas State
    OT 6-5 308 Big 12


  • Max Scharping
    Northern Illinois
    OT 6-6 320 MAC
 
yeah our OL sucks and ain't no rookie or two or three and Devlin gonna fix it in one year
 
JB said:
yeah our OL sucks and ain't no rookie or two or three and Devlin gonna fix it in one year
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True, but it can't possibly be worse could it - I mean they have to try something.
I wonder if they go after a decent vet at LT? Gonna have to fork out for one of those.
Another possibility is to go after a decent RT - a bit cheaper than Lefties. Then concentrate on a good leftie from the draft. Or vice versa.
 
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Texansphan said:
True, but it can't possibly be worse could it - I mean they have to try something.
I wonder if they go after a decent vet at LT? Gonna have to fork out for one of those.
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They should get 2 vet OT's, draft 2, send Davenport to the PS to get stronger, and if Lamm is kep it can be as swing tackle. Play them every snap during OTA's, TC and pre-season as a unit. Wait half a year (at least) for them to jell. Or hire a Munchak type as ass't HC OL and maybe it won't take quite as long. An OC that knew that moving pockets and mixing scheme's would help OL as well as QB would be huge as well
 
JB said:
They should get 2 vet OT's, draft 2, send Davenport to the PS to get stronger, and if Lamm is kep it can be as swing tackle. Play them every snap during OTA's, TC and pre-season as a unit. Wait half a year (at least) for them to jell. Or hire a Munchak type as ass't HC OL and maybe it won't take quite as long. An OC that knew that moving pockets and mixing scheme's would help OL as well as QB would be huge as well
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I just edited my post while you posted.
A good oline coach might make a big difference.
One thing is for sure, Texans simply must protect their now franchise QB better than they did this year or his career will be in jeopardy .
 
IDEXAN said:
Third-rounder, perhaps another SEC guy who moves inside in the NFL ?
&&&&&&&&&&&&
Below is the list of OTs so far expected to attend the Senior Bowl, looking forward to those one-on-one drills.
https://www.seniorbowl.com/accepted-invites.php?position=OT&conference=&s_id=
  • Yodny Cajuste
    West Virginia
    OT 6-5 321 Big 12


  • Dennis Daley
    South Carolina
    OT 6-6 324 SEC


  • Nate Davis
    Charlotte
    OT 6-3 311 C-USA


  • Andre Dillard
    Washington State
    OT 6-5 306 Pac-12


  • Chuma Edoga
    USC
    OT 6-4 295 Pac-12


  • Tytus Howard
    Alabama State
    OT 6-6 311 FCS


  • Kaleb McGary
    Washington
    OT 6-8 324 Pac-12


  • Dalton Risner
    Kansas State
    OT 6-5 308 Big 12


  • Max Scharping
    Northern Illinois
    OT 6-6 320 MAC
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That list has the OT's or OL the Texans could pick in the draft from their respective positions. I would take Risner late RD1, Dillard in RD2 and Scharping in RD3. Execute a trade back in RD1 to a tiny bit late run RD1 and we could pickup another RD3 or RD4. Tag and trade Clowney should give the team another RD2 and potentially a RD3 or RD4.

The extra, (2) RD2, RD3 and RD4.....gets the team a WR and (3) defensive players, DE or OLB and (2) CB's. If Gaine nailed his picks, the Texans would be moving on up and fast. The team has a full compliment of 2020 picks, which would is a good thing.
 
I'm more convinced than ever that our poor OL play is as much blocking assignments as it is talent. The kicker could block about as well as Griffin and yet Griffin's role in the blocking scheme is essential to making many of these plays work. He's one of the first cuts I hope they make this off-season.
 
Max said:
I'm more convinced than ever that our poor OL play is as much blocking assignments as it is talent. The kicker could block about as well as Griffin and yet Griffin's role in the blocking scheme is essential to making many of these plays work. He's one of the first cuts I hope they make this off-season.
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I liked him a couple of years ago. Talent wise, I think he still has potential. Maybe he needs a new contact prescription.

I won't be heartbroken if he's let go.
 
Texansphan said:
I just edited my post while you posted.
A good oline coach might make a big difference.
One thing is for sure, Texans simply must protect their now franchise QB better than they did this year or his career will be in jeopardy .
Click to expand...


He needs to help them …. he holds the ball an awful long time relying upon his inner Houdini to escape pressure when sh!t hits the proverbial fan far too often.

Thing is , you cant tell him not to do that because it is what makes him … just have to hope it doesn't break him.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That list has the OT's or OL the Texans could pick in the draft from their respective positions. I would take Risner late RD1, Dillard in RD2 and Scharping in RD3. Execute a trade back in RD1 to a tiny bit late run RD1 and we could pickup another RD3 or RD4. Tag and trade Clowney should give the team another RD2 and potentially a RD3 or RD4.

The extra, (2) RD2, RD3 and RD4.....gets the team a WR and (3) defensive players, DE or OLB and (2) CB's. If Gaine nailed his picks, the Texans would be moving on up and fast. The team has a full compliment of 2020 picks, which would is a good thing.
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I'm probably in the minority here but I don't want them to trade Clowney … He's just too impactful both against the run and pass and you would never get fair value. Those guys you don't replace … If we cant work out a fair deal , he can play this year in a Texans uniform on the franchise tag and we can try again next year , if we cant come to an agreement at that point then we look to tag and trade him.
 
Corrosion said:
He needs to help them …. he holds the ball an awful long time relying upon his inner Houdini to escape pressure when sh!t hits the proverbial fan far too often.

Thing is , you cant tell him not to do that because it is what makes him … just have to hope it doesn't break him.
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Agree.
There is something else Texans can do to protect him too and that is to install a tough ground game.
We had one for a while there this season but for some reason it went away.
Gonna need to find it again if we hope to beat the better teams coming up.
 
Texansphan said:
Agree.
There is something else Texans can do to protect him too and that is to install a tough ground game.
We had one for a while there this season but for some reason it went away.
Gonna need to find it again if we hope to beat the better teams coming up.
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Ask yourself why the ground game went away.
 
steelbtexan said:
Would you say that was the major factor or just a coincidence?
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I wouldn't call it a huge factor... the 4 teams Miller really went off on were not best in the league rushing defenses, but were far from worst. They were middle of the pack. But injuries not just to Miller but the OL also and in and out of Kele and Fulton and Mancz all played a part also
 
JB said:
I wouldn't call it a huge factor... the 4 teams Miller really went off on were not best in the league rushing defenses, but were far from worst. They were middle of the pack. But injuries not just to Miller but the OL also and in and out of Kele and Fulton and Mancz all played a part also
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I get where you're coming from, even though I mildly disagree.
 
I was hoping to see Foreman back in there for a few plays yesterday just to knock off some more "rust" but he wasn't even on the active roster. Guess they feel he's just not "football" ready or in "football shape" to make the plays.
 
Teams
JB said:
For a number of factors, not because the OL stared sucking MORE over time
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Teams found a way to scheme against our running game.
It's now up to Bill and co to find a way to push back.
Insideop said:
I was hoping to see Foreman back in there for a few plays yesterday just to knock off some more "rust" but he wasn't even on the active roster. Guess they feel he's just not "football" ready or in "football shape" to make the plays.
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I reckon we will see him Saturday. It's do or die so no point in holding him back unless he is just not good enough with a niggle.
 
Texansphan said:
Teams

Teams found a way to scheme against our running game.
It's now up to Bill and co to find a way to push back.

I reckon we will see him Saturday. It's do or die so no point in holding him back unless he is just not good enough with a niggle.
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I don't know if we'll see Foreman or not. CNND seems to think we won't and even wonders if we'll ever see him play again based on what he saw in that Eagles game.
 
infantrycak said:
I disagree we need a blocking TE. Might as well use a reserve OT. Any competent coaching staff should be able to teach passable blocking, especially when you're talking about a 277 lb TE.
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Agreed. If he's a blocking TE he's about as apt to catch a pass as Kyle Williams lining up as an H-Back.
 
infantrycak said:
I disagree we need a blocking TE. Might as well use a reserve OT. Any competent coaching staff should be able to teach passable blocking, especially when you're talking about a 277 lb TE.
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Really , all you have to do to "block" is get in the way and disrupt the line to the QB …. when QB's are generally getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds.
 
steelbtexan said:
Seems really simple.

Too bad it's not that simple.
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No, it's really not. Well, the "getting in the way" part isn't .... it's the "staying there and disrupting" part that's tough. Seriously though, I've got an idea. It really is difficult to draft the right guys .... even most, if not all the scouts agree on that. Well, who might know better than them ? Le Charles Bently, or one of his disciples. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Maybe not desperate, but smarter maybe ? That's the way new offensive and defensive schemes are born. We need to try something that's not being tried .... what is the worst that happens .... we draft a kid who doesn't pan out ??
 
badboy said:
What sucks is #4 knowing a rusher coming in unblocked and doesn't toss a pass over that rusher. Even worse is Watson allowing that guy to disrupt him.
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That’s a fair criticism. However, did a RB or WR adjust their route and ran a hot read in the area the blitzer vacated? Did a RB chip the incoming blitzer before making himself available for #4 to toss that pass?
 
Earl34 said:
That’s a fair criticism. However, did a RB or WR adjust their route and ran a hot read in the area the blitzer vacated? Did a RB chip the incoming blitzer before making himself available for #4 to toss that pass?
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No one's I'm discussing Watson seems to ignore and focus his attention to side opposite of threat. RB if in, blocks to other side. Any receiver that side just runs his route and is too far outside to block. You see this play resolved in college and other NFL games with a QB lob over the rush.
 
badboy said:
No one's I'm discussing Watson seems to ignore and focus his attention to side opposite of threat. RB if in, blocks to other side. Any receiver that side just runs his route and is too far outside to block. You see this play resolved in college and other NFL games with a QB lob over the rush.
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So, did the WR who is too far to block the blitzer adjust his route? Did he run a slant, hitch or in pattern to make himself available immediately?

In the last Colts’ game, they were delayed blitzing #4. It was too late to audible, but he definitely needs to be aware that a blitz might be coming and speed up his decision making process.

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but the hot read has to be communicated between the QB, WR or RB. I’m not sure there is someone open in the vacated area behind the blitzer.
 
Earl34 said:
So, did the WR who is too far to block the blitzer adjust his route? Did he run a slant, hitch or in pattern to make himself available immediately?

In the last Colts’ game, they were delayed blitzing #4. It was too late to audible, but he definitely needs to be aware that a blitz might be coming and speed up his decision making process.

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but the hot read has to be communicated between the QB, WR or RB. I’m not sure there is someone open in the vacated area behind the blitzer.
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Wouldn't you make someone open in vacated area? Can't be Hop as CB will glue him. Griffin is horrible, put Rankin outside of D. Then Miller to chip and release other side on blitz and be target in vacated area. Watson hold ball way too long this scenario.
 
badboy said:
Wouldn't you make someone open in vacated area? Can't be Hop as CB will glue him. Griffin is horrible, put Rankin outside of D. Then Miller to chip and release other side on blitz and be target in vacated area. Watson hold ball way too long this scenario.
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If you go back to the last Colts game, you would see Hopkins fail on this. He was lined up in the slot, his corner came on a delayed blitz, Watson recognized it and seemed like he was expecting Hopkins settle in the empty zone, but Hopkins kept running his route normally, Watson got blown up instantly. Now we know nothing about the play call, or how they are taught to handle that situation, but it wasn't a good look on either end. You also need to keep an eye on Colts rookie LB Leonard, he is the main reason they can get away with bringing a lot of the pressure packages they do. He is a beast in coverage, and covers up a lot of would be holes when they bring other blitzers

Also you realize using Miller as your quick outlet on a blitz, but having him chip block is counter productive right? Is he picking up the blitzer or is he getting open quick, you have to choose one or the other
 
badboy said:
Wouldn't you make someone open in vacated area? Can't be Hop as CB will glue him. Griffin is horrible, put Rankin outside of D. Then Miller to chip and release other side on blitz and be target in vacated area. Watson hold ball way too long this scenario.
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True, but the play called did not have those options, the blitzer didn’t tip his intentions during Watson’s pre-snap read.

My overall point is Watson does hold the ball too long, but reading that blitz and countering that blitz has to be a team effort that includes Watson, the OL, RBs, WRs, O’Brien and even Ryan.

The Texans failed to adjust and the Colts and Eagles exploited this weakness. I expect the Colts to do the same thing again. I hope they have a counter.

Good discussion.
 
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