steelbtexan was saying that before the season. But BO'b the OC had him take his very first snap in the NFL at LT.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
steelbtexan was saying that before the season. But BO'b the OC had him take his very first snap in the NFL at LT.
They should get a premier Left Tackle and premier Right Tackle in Draft/FA and move everyone they have now to the interior and make them back ups, as they arent starting material. They also wont remove their invested 1-3 round picks from last year this off season. So we arent going to see an overhaul.
Just be prepared.
Just be prepared.
vtech9
All Pro
I'd prefer about 10 more pass attempts per game on average. I would only expect to have 24-28 pass attempts per game if we have a dominating run game, which we just don't have.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
What we do see I have noticed is a surprise release of someone we as fans value highly.
This next offseason it might be Mercilus.
Johnson may well be a casualty as he usually is one anyway.
Saw this on chron.com about Rankin playing OG: https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Martinas-Rankin-has-up-and-down-game-13490184.php
Looks like they're coming around to the idea of him being an OG.
Looks like they're coming around to the idea of him being an OG.
This, to me, is further evidence that the guy buying the groceries can only do so much.
AggiebyMarriage
Waterboy
The Texans better plan on picking up their starting left tackle in FA. Because for the last 10 years, over 50% of the drafted 1st round tackles have been busts "https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history". If you want to be sure of getting the LT issue fixed, your going to have to go big in FA, for Trent Brown (NE), or maybe Donavan Smith (TB). After I signed the top free agent tackle available, I would draft several O-Linemen in the first few rounds. However, I would expect that some of these drafted O-Linemen will be wasted picks.
Hitting this problem with a combination of solutions is the only way it will get fixed
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Rick Smith was able to hit a home run on his only first round LT. Gaine should too right?
Lots of top flight college tackles including left tackles move inside in the pros as evidenced by what appears to be the conclusion now by the Texans about Rankin.
Another also an SEC Olineman like Rankin who could end up on the inside or atleast @ RT in the NFL is 'Bama LT Jonah Williams.
Williams is an early favorite among the lineman in the '19 Draft to be taken as a LT but more and more evaluaters are expressing reservations about the feasibility
of Williams as an effective NFL LT.
That was Alex Gibbs pick, not Rickey's
Is this a quote or opinion?
The Texans are sitting in almost the same position as the Colts were some years ago when they got their franchise QB (Luck) in the draft and then watched as their O-line got worse and worse every year as some of their veterans aged, left in FA, or just got cut by the team. They would pick some O-linemen in the drafts that followed like Justin Anderson (7th rd), Hugh Thornton (3rd rd), Khaled Holmes (4th rd), and Ulrick John (7th rd). As the line disintegrated around Luck and the hits piled up it became inevitable that he would sustain some kind of serious injury. Does any of this sound like a familiar pattern?
The Colts started drafting more O-linemen earlier in the draft realizing that they would have to go through a number of them before they would come up with the right combination. Don't know if they picked up any linemen in FA but their O-line now is considered one of the best. Not saying this is the only way to build an O-line but it is one way.
I think we can all agree the Giants, who went big in FA, did not fix their problem.
Or you can put in the work. Combine performance is only one factor. College career is only one factor. Family life is only one factor. & there are many more. Including being honest about your organizations leadership, ability to reach & coach players.
Then after the selection, there's a lot more work to be done. There should be a team of people focused on making that selection successful. You can't get into the, "he's a grown man." Line of thinking. Your success as a trainer, coach, coordinator, super bowl winning organization is directly tied to his success.
But wasn't it a condition of his hire?
And btw, Davenport was Devlin's pick not Rickey's so there...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
AggiebyMarriage
Waterboy
herfor,
You also have to be brutally honest about the risk factors involved with these decisions. The other 31 teams GM/Scouting Staffs/Coaches all thought they had the OT evaluations figured out.
The honest truth is hard work or not, the risk in drafting a LT in the lst round of the draft is that you have a 50% chance of having a bust. The Texans cannot go into the 2019 season thinking they are the smartest guys in the room, and therefore whatever OT they draft in the 1st round is the answer to the O-Line problem.
This kind of blind arrogance is a good way to to have this O-Line cancer linger thru Deshaun's prime years, and have this offense perpetually handicapped by the limitations of an inferior O-Line.
If this team wants to reach the full potential that it has with Watson leading the team, this O-Line debacle needs to get fixed THIS year, not 10 years down the road.
By the way:
Merry Christmas One and All!
You also have to be brutally honest about the risk factors involved with these decisions. The other 31 teams GM/Scouting Staffs/Coaches all thought they had the OT evaluations figured out.
The honest truth is hard work or not, the risk in drafting a LT in the lst round of the draft is that you have a 50% chance of having a bust. The Texans cannot go into the 2019 season thinking they are the smartest guys in the room, and therefore whatever OT they draft in the 1st round is the answer to the O-Line problem.
This kind of blind arrogance is a good way to to have this O-Line cancer linger thru Deshaun's prime years, and have this offense perpetually handicapped by the limitations of an inferior O-Line.
If this team wants to reach the full potential that it has with Watson leading the team, this O-Line debacle needs to get fixed THIS year, not 10 years down the road.
By the way:
Merry Christmas One and All!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No offense, but that's a BS stat. Many of the "busts" just went on to very productive careers at G or RT, e.g. Russell Okung who was a 9 year starter and 2 time pro bowler. That's not a bust.
I'm not in the room when they discuss their issues, but like you I hope they don't believe drafting an OT is going to solve their issues at guard or Center.
Whatever the draft I hope they do something to fix what I believe is an obvious coaching issue & a QB to line communication issue.
But we'll see.
Ricky listened to Kubiak. Ricky was Kubiak's boy until the time came to throw Kubiak under the bus.
In reality Kubiak is to blame for giving us 12 yrs of Ricky's mediocrity.
Draft 3 OL and take your chances and in the 2020 draft, draft 3 more. Draft them until you fix the OL.
Tell me, do you think the Texans best 2 yrs coincided with having their best OL? Best yrs until this yr that is.
I think we had better coaching which led to better OL.
I believe if we draft the top three rated OL in this draft we will continue to have problems because the coaching is that bad.
AggiebyMarriage
Waterboy
The 50% successful number includes those that made it at other positions on the O-Line. Drafting O-Linemen has just become a crap shoot. Read these two articles and you will have a better appreciation.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/11/2/16596392/offensive-line-crisis-league-midseason
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history
And I disagree with this post. No amount of coaching is going to make Davenport's feet move quicker.
We should quit discussing this because we are wasting each others time.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Better coaching would have recognized that last year and made a different plan this year.
What would your plan have been? Solder was the only avg OT in FA and they didn't have the picks it would've taken to fix the OL. They did manage to fix the S position/ST's etc... you can only do so much with the resources available.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There were a lot more options than Solder or dust. But I'm not going to haggle trade possibilities.
Ricky was awesome, what was his record after 12 yrs on the job?
The only other LT out there was Trent Brown. What were some of these trade possibilities?
But carry on with your narrative.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Trades within the league are seldom advertised ahead of the time. And pssst, you can call and ask aboutt anyone. Duh on trades in the draft. Those are always mum until made.
But carry on with your silly questions.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just a few comments to provoke discussion. Kubiak has said that the ZBS to be most effective must be run with the QB under center. That's why he insisted that Manning lay off the shotgun and play mostly under center. It appears that Watson is still quite uncomfortable under center. Furthermore, a ZBS requires that the Olinemen have good footwork......the last thing we've seen from our OTs. And the interior line has not exactly burned up the pavement. Lastly, you have to have a RB with good vision and explosiveness.....the only one close (with only four 100 yd games for the year) to that has now been put on the shelf, and when he does come back may not be the same the rest of the season/post season.
You're the one saying trades could've been made, I'm just asking howyou knew they could've been made. Oh that's right, you dont know jack sh!t.
Fact is if a trade could've been made, Gaine would've mde a trade. He didn't feel comfortable with Davenport as his starting LT, or he wouldn't have made a run at Solder. Yes, I really would've liked for Gaine to traded for Trent Brown but that didn't happen.
True
You can only do as much as you have to work with.
You didn't like last yrs draft?
Quoted for truth
You're stuck on Davenport. I'm not.
What we've been seeing goes beyond Davenport. The interior line is really bad & hurting our run game as much if not more than Davenport's slow feet.
We've seen Mancz play well at center & guard. Martin is a 2nd round pick. That's two out of three interior positions. We should be able to run better than we have since the Colts game.
& it doesn't really matter how slow Davenport's feet are, if Rankin's natural position is guard, we should have a better back up plan on game day than the Cupid Shuffle if something happens to our starting tackles.
All true, however totally missing the point.
It has been suggested that we could improve our run game by adding stretch runs into our game plan, or even RB screens. The counter to that take was that we need to draft 5 OL from the top 10 selections before we would have enough talent for BO'b to make it work.
infantrycak exposed the fallacy in their argument since the ZBS is usually successful with talent taken in the later rounds.
He's not suggesting we run the ZBS. Only that linemen drafted in the 4th round & later should be able to manage a freak'n RB screen.
I'm not stuck on Davenport, although he's the worst of the backup crew. 2 Ot's and an OG in the draft wouldn't hurt hurt my feelings at all. Afterall they are the 32nd ranked pass blocking unit in the NFL and that's with keeping TE's in to block. That says it all talentwise. As a group they are really a bad bunch of backups who've played about as I expected them too.
So in your world, what is a coach supposed to do? What does it mean "to coach"?
Take the players you have and get the most out of them. Devise a gameplan that will win the most games possible. BOB has done this by leading the franchise to the 2nd most wins in franchise history. The OL has played to it's talent level. What do you think this bunch of backups talent level is?
Funny thing is I called this a bad OL before the season even started, you said let it play out and see how they do. Well it's played out better than I thought it would and they still suck.
How much better do you think this group could be coached up and specifically what would you do differently with the blocking schemes?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You can talk about Talent level until you're blue in the face. But that doesn't matter when you have two tackles with two left feet, Rankin with no decent experience, Mancz with a chronic bum knee, Martin showing the effects of back to back high ankle fractures, Kelemete the walking wounded dealing with ongoing ankle and thigh issues, and no depth worth talking about.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Bwhahaha now you're changing your narrative again. Stick with your guns man. Stick with your guns.
I've been consistent all season.
The OL has sucked all season and Solder has been playing better recently. What's up with the Bwhahaha stuff? What are you trying to say.
Yeah. If he argued as such I'd have to concede. But he didn't.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
3rd down sacks are tough to deal with. Watson takes his fair share on poor decision making, but the OL and coaches have to see this data point and try to make a concerted effort to expect pressure and run blitz beating FIRST DOWN type plays not 6 yard pass plays when you need 8.
Whatever dude
txtechsean
Practice Squad
it sucks
Thanks for posting these articles AbM! That first article, Offensive Line Crisis, is probably the best explanation I've read of what is going on today with O-linemen in the NFL and probably sums it up best. Again, thanks for posting!
badboy
Hall of Fame
Nothing can be done for remaining of this season but play as well as possible; to me this is more about coaches calling plays that decrease weaknesses. Free agency seems to offer little and while a trade is possible, I'm more inclined to think our draft and another team drafting Oline then cutting a vet that is better than ours are better options although not so much the latter. It is possible that a RT like Risner and a LT to challenge Davenport like Scharping and/or Hyatt can be drafted. Davenport slow feet or not has done much better as season progressed despite his shoulder injury and a ? next to him at LG most of the season. Kelemete should be gone and a hopefully healthier Rankin with part of a season behind him should be better and in turn making D better. Martin should return but will IMO continue to have health issue so I can see Fulton playing center or at least backing up Martin more and allowing Mancz RG. Hurt or not IIRC Martin played most if not all snaps at center.
LT Davenport challenged by Scharping, LG Rankin challenged by Hyatt, Center Martin/ Fulton, RG Fulton/Scharping (if D able to hold him and/or Hyatt off) and RT rookie starter Dalton Risner. No Lamm but not shocked if he is extended. * Suggest you check out PFF rankings of Risner and Scharping and their pass blocking capabilities.
My current mock has Corner Byron Murphy falling to us in first though QB Herbert returning school doesn't help. Then we go 2a Risner 2b Julian Love CB and round three Scharping. Mitch Hyatt who seems to drop every week is still one of most consistent LT in college could be a back up plan for Scharping.
LT Davenport challenged by Scharping, LG Rankin challenged by Hyatt, Center Martin/ Fulton, RG Fulton/Scharping (if D able to hold him and/or Hyatt off) and RT rookie starter Dalton Risner. No Lamm but not shocked if he is extended. * Suggest you check out PFF rankings of Risner and Scharping and their pass blocking capabilities.
My current mock has Corner Byron Murphy falling to us in first though QB Herbert returning school doesn't help. Then we go 2a Risner 2b Julian Love CB and round three Scharping. Mitch Hyatt who seems to drop every week is still one of most consistent LT in college could be a back up plan for Scharping.
Some of those sacks are on Watson …. he holds the ball so long sometimes , relying upon his Houdini act to get him out of trouble. Usually it turns into a big play for one team or the other …. a big completion or a sack. He's got to take that check down more often than he does. At least twice he missed Foreman wide open in the middle of the field against the Igles where he would have had room to run after the catch , rather he held the ball waiting for something deeper … He has to complete those plays at a higher rate and sustain drives.
The OL isn't good …. barely adequate but as many plays as Watson makes with his feet / escapability - he misses a lot of the underneath stuff that would keep drives going.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Absolutely. Even throwing it away is a good play sometimes. I'm hoping he will learn that sooner rather than later. Kids got a little too much Favre in him for my taste.