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Any of you gonna admit to owing DW4 an apology?

Why the hell are we even talking about this crap which happened years ago? Even if you choose to believe that Kubiak never lost the confidence of his team (I believe he did with every mounting loss) that still doesn't change what happened here and what ultimately killed his career here.. his failing health. In fact Kubiak had to resign in Denver after winning a SB, because he had another episode in the locker room and had to be rushed by ambulance and admitted to the hospital there too.

His coaching days are over so please for the love of everything good, can we please let this pointless crap go and MOOOVE ON?!

O'Brien may prove to never be the answer, but that certainly doesn't make Kubiak a damn answer either. If O'Brien isn't the guy, we'll move on and look for the next hot coach and that coach's name sure as hell won't be Gary Kubiak.
 
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Technically as well, McNair deciding to fire Kubiak isn't any kind of indication that he had lost the locker room. Nor is a 2-14 record indicative of the effort that individual players made that season.

The Texans had a lot in common with some of their fans on Sunday. They embarrassed themselves.

For the second consecutive game, the Texans played as if they want coach Gary Kubiak to be fired. In losing 38-13 to the St. Louis Rams at Reliant Stadium, the Texans were so pathetic they scored a hat trick in futility, surrendering touchdowns on offense, defense and special teams.

link
 
Those pesky facts.

I guess maybe some don't recall those games or perhaps don't know what 'losing a locker room' means. It was clear though that the Texans quit playing as a team and became (with a couple of exceptions) a bunch of guys playing for themselves... playing for the next year/stop/stats etc...
 
the facts arent in question. what are we gleaming from that article? that some fans cheered Schaub getting hurt? That the players were disgusted with the fans? Cushing himself came out and gave the 'playerspeak' about being prepared properly yada yada yada . Earlier this year Mike Tomlin was accused of this same heinous act "Losing the Locker Room", but yet here he sits on a path to yet another playoff run. If it just involves controversy and stupifying comments then Obrien has lost the locker room plenty himself. So losing the locker room only applies to losing seasons it would seem? Still one of those vague, cherry picked ideas that get thrown about when coaches are in a hot seat. Coaches keep coaching, if the players give up thats another thing, but that season in particular didnt have players quitting, it had a bunch of wierd **** going down and Koobs was made the scapegoat. Done deal, this is ad nauseum at this point, Koobs has his ring as a head coach and we have the benevolent and all knowing, all seeing Bill O'Brien to lead us to the promised land - well until he loses the locker room that is.
 
Give me a break.. Kubiak was NEVER going to win a ring here.. just cut it out with that revisionist b.s. He might've had a chance if he simply admitted Peyton Manning would've been a better option as a short rental than sticking with Schaub, but even he was a part of the decision to stick with Schaub.. (He finally won it with Manning somewhere else.) Kubiak had plenty of time here (more than enough time to get it done) and in the end the man had a greater chance of dying on our field than ever celebrating a SB victory here..

If any of you Kubiak apologist simply miss Kubiak, because of his scheme/system then we should be talking about coaching possibilities, who coach that scheme/system, who are much younger, and healthier. I would've liked Kyle Shanahan, which depending on how Garoppolo turns out could once again become a possibility in a few seasons.

Y'all want to have a conversation about coaches like that (You know realistic options with coaches who aren't stroking out and still are..actually coaching football) Fine, but it's passed time to bury the dead horse known as Gary Kubiak. He ain't walking through any door and I wouldn't want him to either for his and our sake.
 
Kubiak wanted to prove Schaub was the best option, even though he had already proved he wasn't... stubborn Aggie there
Nah.

You know I'm a Keenum's supporter.
But I think I agree with the things Kubiak did.

Remember, I didn't even think having Keenum starting against the Chiefs was a good idea.

I was and still am cool with benching Keenum for Schaub.

I think those were great teaching moments, to be honest.

You need to know that I've seen Keenum greeting Kubiak after games when they had moved on to other teams. You can see the mutual respect there. And when Kubiak got inducted to the Texas Sports Hall of Fame, Keenum was there.
It was then that Keenum said that Kubiak is a guy that he'd run through walls for.

For me, Kubiak is the ole Texas/Houston way, like Bum Phillips.
Be true to oneself.
 
Why the hell are we even talking about this crap which happened years ago? Even if you choose to believe that Kubiak never lost the confidence of his team (I believe he did with every mounting loss) that still doesn't change what happened here and what ultimately killed his career here.. his failing health. In fact Kubiak had to resign in Denver after winning a SB, because he had another episode in the locker room and had to be rushed by ambulance and admitted to the hospital there too.

His coaching days are over so please for the love of everything good, can we please let this pointless crap go and MOOOVE ON?!

O'Brien may prove to never be the answer, but that certainly doesn't make Kubiak a damn answer either. If O'Brien isn't the guy, we'll move on and look for the next hot coach and that coach's name sure as hell won't be Gary Kubiak.
Well, I'm actually open to the idea that OB might be growing in his head-coaching endeavor.

I was open when he first came aboard.

I can understand the Kubiak's firing; though it wouldn't have been my choice.

But when you fire a HC, you need to really think that you have a successor in place that will take your team further.

And then you saw Fitzpatrick and all the QBs that OB brought in.

One has to wonder what the heck the plan was.
And then to draft Savage while you still have Keenum on the cheap.

There was no master plan to look forward to.
 
Well, I'm actually open to the idea that OB might be growing in his head-coaching endeavor.

I was open when he first came aboard.

I can understand the Kubiak's firing; though it wouldn't have been my choice.

But when you fire a HC, you need to really think that you have a successor in place that will take your team further.

And then you saw Fitzpatrick and all the QBs that OB brought in.

One has to wonder what the heck the plan was.
And then to draft Savage while you still have Keenum on the cheap.

There was no master plan to look forward to.

That's what teams do when they are desperate for a QB.. Some teams just get lucky and find a solution on their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd chance.. even more teams don't.

Yes none of the guys you mentioned were a solution (and I'm including Case Keenum as well), but if they were part of a necessary process that needed to happen for us to get the QB we have now, well then I'm fine with it now today.
 
That's what teams do when they are desperate for a QB.. Some teams just get lucky and find a solution on their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd chance.. even more teams don't.

Yes none of the guys you mentioned were a solution (and I'm including Case Keenum as well), but if they were part of a necessary process that needed to happen for us to get the QB we have now, well then I'm fine with it now today.
A better plan, IMO, is not to look for band aids when you've already got one.

You might remember that I wanted the Texans to draft Wilson, Keenum, and Cousins all in the same year .

Dude.
If you realize that it's a QB driven league, you go find one.
 
Sorry, JB, it seems like I can't quote your post.

The Rams game was too early to call it quit.
If anything, the defensive players could have shown more frustration with Wade.
 
Their play on the field proves it? 2-14 and fired all because Schaub got hurt and Kubiak couldn't/wouldn't develop Keenum.
do you actually think the undrafted rookie Keenum could have been developed to be at any decent level of proficiency in half a season?
I don't.
Hell, it's taken him 3-5 yrs to get where he is now.
 
A better plan, IMO, is not to look for band aids when you've already got one.

You might remember that I wanted the Texans to draft Wilson, Keenum, and Cousins all in the same year .

Dude.
If you realize that it's a QB driven league, you go find one.

And they did find one..

???
 
do you actually think the undrafted rookie Keenum could have been developed to be at any decent level of proficiency in half a season?
I don't.
Hell, it's taken him 3-5 yrs to get where he is now.
I'd like to add something.
It's always possible for the master to "learn" something from his understudy.
And it's not just that.
I distinctly recall the time I gave thought on this forum that Kubiak could do well having certain conversations with Art Briles.
It was RPO a long time ago.
One can always learn the trend and see how it can be adapted to make one's own system better.

Some thought I was crazy, or just shooting the mouth off,
 
You miss the point entirely.
I was among those (few) who considered Watson as a viable solution.

What was the point? That it took awhile to find a solution and we didn't spend half our draft picks on QBs?

I realize that we had to go through a lot of QBs and made plenty of mistakes along the way but it only took the Texans 4 seasons to get from Schaub to Watson. I know it feels a lot longer just due to the amount of QBs they went through, but I'll give them credit for not doubling down on the mistakes and moving quickly to find another option.

Not every team has a Siuation like the Packers and Colts. Multiple franchises have been waiting well over a decade plus to find their guy.. we had to wait 4 years after Schaub **** the bed... but it was worth it.

I mean..we could've drafted Blake Bortles or the many other dud QBs over the last couple of years. Just saying all considering, things could've ended ALOT worse.
 
do you actually think the undrafted rookie Keenum could have been developed to be at any decent level of proficiency in half a season?
I don't.
Hell, it's taken him 3-5 yrs to get where he is now.

Yes I do. I think Keenum would have been a fine bridge to Watson if he had been developed probably.

Nobody developed Keenum until Schurmer got ahold of him.
 
I guess maybe some don't recall those games or perhaps don't know what 'losing a locker room' means. It was clear though that the Texans quit playing as a team and became (with a couple of exceptions) a bunch of guys playing for themselves... playing for the next year/stop/stats etc...

I'll admit... I don't remember.
 
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A Kubiak argument and nobody invited his number 1 fan?* Kubiak didn't lose the locker room, it was taken. I've chronicled the events that chipped away repeatedly, and the major push by McNair that made a mess that year. He hired Reeves because he was smart enough to realize he didn't know. He hired Kubiak and gave full authority because Kubiak had forgotten more of the game than most coaches. But as soon as things started looking good ... chip, chip, chip, break.

Yes I do. I think Keenum would have been a fine bridge to Watson if he had been developed probably.

Nobody developed Keenum until Schurmer got ahold of him.

Wasn't ready, but was on the cusp - needed tweaks to his game and scheme to be most effective. What worked for Schaub wasn't right for Keenum, nor was the horrid Pistol experiment trying to hybrid talents (see above). Had we finished the year with Schaub and our fate - McNair learns to stay out of it, we get an early OL or DE pick (giving Wade more rushers is unfair to opponents), plus a QB selection, Kubiak (not going to start a rookie) gets to focus on Keenum and all is right in the world.

*Still find the #1 fan thing odd. I'm a homer. Swap their roles and I'm being ridiculed as Wade's #1 fan. It's an upset that will never go away, that we had two of the most experienced and successful in the business, and both were hometown. Son of Bum and an Aggie who grew up on the sidelines as a ball boy. That's the story I wanted for our Superbowl. An offseason without Reed and McNair blowing up the defense, and stability on offense - had a shot at it. Instead the exact same staff won in Denver with 3 great corners (Joseph, Kareem, Bouye) a great rush (Watt, Mercilus, Clowney) and an offense that would be a fraction of what we would've been putting up with Hopkins emerging as the top threat.
 
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Not too long ago I was complaining about Watson not utilizing check-downs or TE's enough. Looks like he's been keeping up with my critiques (Call me, Deshuan. We'll talk).

patrick‏Verified account@PatDStat Dec 2
Also, another place Deshaun Watson has grown as a QB. His ability to be patient and hit his check downs the past two weeks has been a good development. Simple 2-3 yard passes turning into 10+ yard gains.


And Jordan Thomas now has four TD's as a rookie. That ties Andre Johnson's rookie season TD's.
 
A Kubiak argument and nobody invited his number 1 fan?* Kubiak didn't lose the locker room, it was taken. I've chronicled the events that chipped away repeatedly, and the major push by McNair that made a mess that year. He hired Reeves because he was smart enough to realize he didn't know. He hired Kubiak and gave full authority because Kubiak had forgotten more of the game than most coaches. But as soon as things started looking good ... chip, chip, chip, break.



Wasn't ready, but was on the cusp - needed tweaks to his game and scheme to be most effective. What worked for Schaub wasn't right for Keenum, nor was the horrid Pistol experiment trying to hybrid talents (see above). Had we finished the year with Schaub and our fate - McNair learns to stay out of it, we get an early OL or DE pick (giving Wade more rushers is unfair to opponents), plus a QB selection, Kubiak (not going to start a rookie) gets to focus on Keenum and all is right in the world.

*Still find the #1 fan thing odd. I'm a homer. Swap their roles and I'm being ridiculed as Wade's #1 fan. It's an upset that will never go away, that we had two of the most experienced and successful in the business, and both were hometown. Son of Bum and an Aggie who grew up on the sidelines as a ball boy. That's the story I wanted for our Superbowl. An offseason without Reed and McNair blowing up the defense, and stability on offense - had a shot at it. Instead the exact same staff won in Denver with 3 great corners (Joseph, Kareem, Bouye) a great rush (Watt, Mercilus, Clowney) and an offense that would be a fraction of what we would've been putting up with Hopkins emerging as the top threat.

You guys really romanticize the Kubiak era here a little to much. 8 years only 2 playoff trips, I don't care how you want to slice it thats not good, thats not what I or the majority of fans want for this team. Is it the fact that it was 2 Houston boys here running the team so it would've made for a good 30 for 30 episode had they won? Son of Bum would have never been here if it wasn't for McNair stepping in, so without McNair we would have never had those great defenses or great teams.

By the time Bouye developed here JJo was on the down turn of his career, and Kjax has never been regarded as a great corner ever. Clowney wasn't here with that staff, no guarantee he gets drafted by that staff, and Merc didn't really develop to a plus level pass rusher until Vrabel got his hands on him. You are really trying to over simplify things to make your point. At some point you have to realize when it's best for both parties to just move on. Kubiak had run his course here, the best he could ever get this team to be was a paper tiger. Doesn't make him a bad coach, I think he is a great coach but sometimes you learn lessons after you move on and apply them at your next job. A lot of coaches don't change things that they should until they get fired and have to find employment elsewhere. I think to try to argue that Kubiak and Wade would have won a ring here is kind of futile
 
To use the argument that coach or player X shouldn't have been replaced because they went elsewhere and won a superbowl is way over simplifying things. There are so many factors that go into a superbowl win you can't point any one thing. Kubiak won in Denver, this is fact but was it because he was just that good of a coach and Houston was holding him back or was it because he had a team that could more fit his system? Or was it because Elway was in full win now mode and spent everything to build a team to win that year? Was it the schedule Denver played that year that was more friendly, did the injuries they and other teams have benefit them? These are just a few of the possible factors and if you change anyone of them he might not wins in Denver.
 
Watson's pre snap game has been impressive the last two games.

I don't see many teams in the league being able to beat the Texans at home with Watson at Qb.

He isn't turning the ball over any more and still stretching the field(8.8 YPA in last 5 games).

How anyone could think the Texans aren't a threat to take down New England or the Chiefs is asinine.
 
To use the argument that coach or player X shouldn't have been replaced because they went elsewhere and won a superbowl is way over simplifying things. There are so many factors that go into a superbowl win you can't point any one thing. Kubiak won in Denver, this is fact but was it because he was just that good of a coach and Houston was holding him back or was it because he had a team that could more fit his system? Or was it because Elway was in full win now mode and spent everything to build a team to win that year? Was it the schedule Denver played that year that was more friendly, did the injuries they and other teams have benefit them? These are just a few of the possible factors and if you change anyone of them he might not wins in Denver.

I mean the team Kubiak took over in Denver did go to the superbowl 2 years prior, and the AFCC the year before. They were already SB contenders year in and year out.
 
You guys really romanticize the Kubiak era here a little to much. 8 years only 2 playoff trips, I don't care how you want to slice it thats not good, thats not what I or the majority of fans want for this team.(A) Is it the fact that it was 2 Houston boys here running the team so it would've made for a good 30 for 30 episode had they won? Son of Bum would have never been here if it wasn't for McNair stepping in, so without McNair we would have never had those great defenses or great teams.

By the time Bouye developed here JJo was on the down turn of his career, and Kjax has never been regarded as a great corner ever. Clowney wasn't here with that staff, no guarantee he gets drafted by that staff, and Merc didn't really develop to a plus level pass rusher until Vrabel got his hands on him.(B) You are really trying to over simplify things to make your point. At some point you have to realize when it's best for both parties to just move on. Kubiak had run his course here, the best he could ever get this team to be was a paper tiger. Doesn't make him a bad coach, I think he is a great coach but sometimes you learn lessons after you move on and apply them at your next job. A lot of coaches don't change things that they should until they get fired and have to find employment elsewhere. I think to try to argue that Kubiak and Wade would have won a ring here is kind of futile

A - That type of statement ignoring context still annoys me. Kubiak turned around 52 + everyone else of his roster in 4 years, because he inherited a team that was 5 years old and in worse shape than it's inaugural season (stop comparing us to other teams). By any stretch of the imagination, that's not just good, it left impossible behind by half a decade. That doesn't even factor losing the first season to more debt and mess with Carr, Sherman and the Packers' additions. We shouldn't have had a winning or even successful season under such circumstances until at least 2010, but fans/management were awed by a great coach able to build a (shaky) foundation in so short a time that you thought it was expected and turned it into a negative. Kubiak did right the first time by turning down the job of coaching a team without players, he should've done it the second time as well - we could've had an 0-16 parade too - instead we had #1's all over the field. You need to work on your slicing skills. Because of that work, O'Brien inherited 9+ probowlers, two competent quarterbacks and all of the right anchor pieces on both offense and defense. Nobody gets gift wrapped that much, and then blows it up with ignorance. Still dependent on those anchor pieces 5 years later when things are going well.

B - Just because a few people say it, doesn't make it true. Kareem's game hasn't changed much over the years, his role has - tasked with matchups that he can follow around the field, or outside CB position, he's not just excelled but dominated. Sadly, not the role he usually gets. Even now 43 Wright looks pretty good because he's being babysat by Kareem taking on other roles because of injury and scheme. Bouye was being developed by Vance Joseph. Mercilus was on his uptick with Wade. Joseph is still starter quality, but was on his way down 6+ years ago?

People don't seem to realize how impossible our 2-14 season was. It had it's triggers and preparation for failure from management, but there's a level beyond bad luck and our 2-14 season was the Oilers 35-3 ... everything has to go wrong in an absolutely perfect manner to happen. As fans do, they forgot 22-10 over the past two seasons and saw only the immediate - ignoring both history and future. Our players didn't magically get better the year after, they were already there, but got blanketed beneath impossible. As for Denver "gifted" superbowl, that's really just dumb. Our defense was as good, and often better, with a MUCH better offense. One team didn't have their owner putting his finger in the pie and telling everyone he cooked it.

I really feel like I should delete this, because it's something I've said too many times and you're just a troll contradicting anything I say. Oh well, I like arguing and drinking ... and since I repeat myself anyway after a few bourbons, I appreciate the opportunity.
 
A - That type of statement ignoring context still annoys me. Kubiak turned around 52 + everyone else of his roster in 4 years, because he inherited a team that was 5 years old and in worse shape than it's inaugural season (stop comparing us to other teams). By any stretch of the imagination, that's not just good, it left impossible behind by half a decade. That doesn't even factor losing the first season to more debt and mess with Carr, Sherman and the Packers' additions. We shouldn't have had a winning or even successful season under such circumstances until at least 2010, but fans/management were awed by a great coach able to build a (shaky) foundation in so short a time that you thought it was expected and turned it into a negative. Kubiak did right the first time by turning down the job of coaching a team without players, he should've done it the second time as well - we could've had an 0-16 parade too - instead we had #1's all over the field. You need to work on your slicing skills. Because of that work, O'Brien inherited 9+ probowlers, two competent quarterbacks and all of the right anchor pieces on both offense and defense. Nobody gets gift wrapped that much, and then blows it up with ignorance. Still dependent on those anchor pieces 5 years later when things are going well.

B - Just because a few people say it, doesn't make it true. Kareem's game hasn't changed much over the years, his role has - tasked with matchups that he can follow around the field, or outside CB position, he's not just excelled but dominated. Sadly, not the role he usually gets. Even now 43 Wright looks pretty good because he's being babysat by Kareem taking on other roles because of injury and scheme. Bouye was being developed by Vance Joseph. Mercilus was on his uptick with Wade. Joseph is still starter quality, but was on his way down 6+ years ago?

People don't seem to realize how impossible our 2-14 season was. It had it's triggers and preparation for failure from management, but there's a level beyond bad luck and our 2-14 season was the Oilers 35-3 ... everything has to go wrong in an absolutely perfect manner to happen. As fans do, they forgot 22-10 over the past two seasons and saw only the immediate - ignoring both history and future. Our players didn't magically get better the year after, they were already there, but got blanketed beneath impossible. As for Denver "gifted" superbowl, that's really just dumb. Our defense was as good, and often better, with a MUCH better offense. One team didn't have their owner putting his finger in the pie and telling everyone he cooked it.

I really feel like I should delete this, because it's something I've said too many times and you're just a troll contradicting anything I say. Oh well, I like arguing and drinking ... and since I repeat myself anyway after a few bourbons, I appreciate the opportunity.

Kubiak didn't get the job done here. Started 2-14 finished 2-14. After the paper tiger 12-4 where they blew HOA you could see 2-14 coming. They were an aging team with a QB that had a bad foot. CnD told us what was going to happen with Schaub and Smith in his infinite wisdom not only didn't prepare for life after Schaub, he extended Schaub. Kubiak rode the Schaub horse until he got fired.

BTW, who were these 2 competent QB's Kubiak left behind?


Man you sure are great at making excuses for Kubiak. The thing I remember about Kubiak was Ricky was Kubiak's handpicked guy and that speaks volumes about Kubiak's judgement. This one failure in judgement cost the Texans and their fans 11 yrs of ineptitude.
 
Kubiak didn't get the job done here. Started 2-14 finished 2-14. After the paper tiger 12-4 where they blew HOA you could see 2-14 coming. They were an aging team with a QB that had a bad foot. CnD told us what was going to happen with Schaub and Smith in his infinite wisdom not only didn't prepare for life after Schaub, he extended Schaub. Kubiak rode the Schaub horse until he got fired.

BTW, who were these 2 competent QB's Kubiak left behind?


Man you sure are great at making excuses for Kubiak. The thing I remember about Kubiak was Ricky was Kubiak's handpicked guy and that speaks volumes about Kubiak's judgement. This one failure in judgement cost the Texans and their fans 11 yrs of ineptitude.

Started 2-14 with Andre Johnson and a team lesser than it's expansion, and even more in debt. Finished 2-14 with a top 3 offensive line, two #1 receivers, the #1 runningback, a quarterback who took the Vikings to the NFC championship, 3x defensive MVP, two starting corners that have anchored a top 10 defense for most of a decade, would've had safeties on that list but even you Steel recognize this one ... I'm sure that I'm missing a few others. You sound like someone needing to have their diaper changed each time you wet fart '2-14'. It's a convenience to you to like my explanations, what do YOU think caused 2-14? Logic seems to go by the wayside. Almost the exact same staff, a similar or lesser defensive roster, a MUCH lesser offense - and yet Kubiak gets to the Superbowl with Osweiler and Elway's gifts, where as we scrap the project because of a bad season that McNair and bad luck uckfed into oblivion.
 
Started 2-14 with Andre Johnson and a team lesser than it's expansion.

This has been pointed out to u as not even close to accurate, several times & u still continue to throw this out there. Talk about logic going by the wayside. Dom Capers was able to win 7 games with arguably a worse roster in 2004 than what Kubiak started out with in 2006. And yet 2 years after taking over, a great draft class in 2006 and getting “his guy” at qb in Schaub, Kubiak was only able to improve on that 2004 season high win mark of 7-9 by Dom Capers by 1 funky ass game at 8-8.

So, yes the roster Kubiak took over in 2006 wasn’t good but it wasn’t expansion bad either like you’re claiming. And once u add in those 2006 draft picks that Kubiak recieved his 1st year on the it wasn’t even comparable; he clearly had the best roster we’d ever had to date.

So y then did it still take kubiak 3 more damn years to get us to the playoffs like it did? Any other HC in any other organization except probably the Bengals’ would’ve been gone by year 3 with the failures of Kubiak.

Yet you’re still in here romanticizing ****...
 
This has been pointed out to u as not even close to accurate, several times & u still continue to throw this out there. Talk about logic going by the wayside. Dom Capers was able to win 7 games with arguably a worse roster in 2004 than what Kubiak started out with in 2006. And yet 2 years after taking over, a great draft class in 2006 and getting “his guy” at qb in Schaub, Kubiak was only able to improve on that 2004 season high win mark of 7-9 by Dom Capers by 1 funky ass game at 8-8.

So, yes the roster Kubiak took over in 2006 wasn’t good but it wasn’t expansion bad either like you’re claiming. And once u add in those 2006 draft picks that Kubiak recieved his 1st year on the it wasn’t even comparable; he clearly had the best roster we’d ever had to date.

So y then did it still take kubiak 3 more damn years to get us to the playoffs like it did? Any other HC in any other organization except probably the Bengals’ would’ve been gone by year 3 with the failures of Kubiak.

Yet you’re still in here romanticizing ****...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2004.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2006.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2008.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2010.htm

Want to point out where I was wrong?

Should I keep going from the number of asterisks and plus signs on the roster from those links to the 2012 and further seasons?
 
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Bill OBrien apoligists saying the Kubiak Klub is making excuses? LMAO

tenor.gif
 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2004.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2006.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2008.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2010.htm

Want to point out where I was wrong?

Should I keep going from the number of asterisks and plus signs on the roster from those links to the 2012 and further seasons?

Dude its impossible. Post articles to support your claim? Fake news. Post data driven raw factual instances? Nope you're a Kubiak fluffer, cant be taken serious. LOL ... attempt to have a civilized discussion as to why each side feels the way it does and try to compromise and find level ground you know mediate .. what happens? Then the childish insults begin, or the cursing or whatever other logical fallacy that is convenient at the time. Lost cause. It doesnt take much digging and researching to see that Kubiak was dealt a premature and sudden exit, but that he redeemed himself in the best way possible. All he has to do is crack a toothy grin anytime a Texan fan goes hyper critical. I'll know what it means, you may know what it means, but these poor souls will always say OBrien is the better of the two . why? Beats the hell out of me LOL (durrr durrrr Broncos had 11 all pros, and went to championship games and all that .. Kubiak was just lucky to go along for the ride) .. its comical at this point because those guys dont even stop to think that maybe it was Kubiak who catapulted that team to the title. They. Will. Never. Accept. That.

and now its infiltrated the Deshaun Watson thread .. I remember how funny this thread was at the beginning and interestingly with some of the same complainers. Hmmm. Now its all rainbows and unicorns.

ON TOPIC .. man can you imagine Watson in a Gary Kubiak WCO system? That would be something to behold.
 
Started 2-14 with Andre Johnson and a team lesser than it's expansion, and even more in debt. Finished 2-14 with a top 3 offensive line, two #1 receivers, the #1 runningback, a quarterback who took the Vikings to the NFC championship, 3x defensive MVP, two starting corners that have anchored a top 10 defense for most of a decade, would've had safeties on that list but even you Steel recognize this one ... I'm sure that I'm missing a few others. You sound like someone needing to have their diaper changed each time you wet fart '2-14'. It's a convenience to you to like my explanations, what do YOU think caused 2-14? Logic seems to go by the wayside. Almost the exact same staff, a similar or lesser defensive roster, a MUCH lesser offense - and yet Kubiak gets to the Superbowl with Osweiler and Elway's gifts, where as we scrap the project because of a bad season that McNair and bad luck uckfed into oblivion.

Man to have all of these great players on the team and still finish 2-14 Kubiak must have done a really crappy job. Or the talent you listed was 1. Keenum (Under developed) 2. Aging 3. Injured
 
Man to have all of these great players on the team and still finish 2-14 Kubiak must have done a really crappy job. Or the talent you listed was 1. Keenum (Under developed) 2. Aging 3. Injured

Its all Rick Smiths fault, or is that excuse only good for certain arguments?
 
Dude its impossible. Post articles to support your claim? Fake news. Post data driven raw factual instances? Nope you're a Kubiak fluffer, cant be taken serious. LOL ... attempt to have a civilized discussion as to why each side feels the way it does and try to compromise and find level ground you know mediate .. what happens? Then the childish insults begin, or the cursing or whatever other logical fallacy that is convenient at the time. Lost cause. It doesnt take much digging and researching to see that Kubiak was dealt a premature and sudden exit, but that he redeemed himself in the best way possible. All he has to do is crack a toothy grin anytime a Texan fan goes hyper critical. I'll know what it means, you may know what it means, but these poor souls will always say OBrien is the better of the two . why? Beats the hell out of me LOL (durrr durrrr Broncos had 11 all pros, and went to championship games and all that .. Kubiak was just lucky to go along for the ride) .. its comical at this point because those guys dont even stop to think that maybe it was Kubiak who catapulted that team to the title. They. Will. Never. Accept. That.

and now its infiltrated the Deshaun Watson thread .. I remember how funny this thread was at the beginning and interestingly with some of the same complainers. Hmmm. Now its all rainbows and unicorns.

ON TOPIC .. man can you imagine Watson in a Gary Kubiak WCO system? That would be something to behold.

I hope your not thinking of me when you made this post. I've pointed out many of BOB's shortcomings just like I did Kubiaks. They're basically the same HC. #fullturtle, so I dont get either side trying to put either one of them in the HOF. They're both good solid HC's but not great HC's.

I could go along with this post if Wade was Kubiak's 1st choice as DC.

BTW, Why does everything a BOB vs Kubiak in your world?
 
Man to have all of these great players on the team and still finish 2-14 Kubiak must have done a really crappy job. Or the talent you listed was 1. Keenum (Under developed) 2. Aging 3. Injured

Must've done something right the previous two years, I wonder what changed. Since you never offer any sort of diagnosis to ... well anything*, how about you give it a shot.

*This guy sucks after bad things happen, not much of an opinion. Kinda your shtick though.
 
I hope your not thinking of me when you made this post. I've pointed out many of BOB's shortcomings just like I did Kubiaks. They're basically the same HC. #fullturtle, so I dont get either side trying to put either one of them in the HOF. They're both good solid HC's but not great HC's.

I could go along with this post if Wade was Kubiak's 1st choice as DC.

BTW, Why does everything a BOB vs Kubiak in your world?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

"Thank you Vance you stupid ************" ... "Yea Brian, we won a game, Is that OK Brian"

Thats your coach. My coach almost died for the team on the sidelines, what has yours done?
 
Its all Rick Smiths fault, or is that excuse only good for certain arguments?

I dont want to make every thread about Ricky. It's really on Kubiak because even though Ricky wasn't very good at his job, he was Kubiak's handpicked guy. I noticed how you glossed over this and the part of Scooter's Kubiak lovefest by me pointing out Kubiak finished 2-14 with his handpicked GM and all of this supposed talent Kubiak and BOB had.

This just in, the talent wasn't that great. 2-14 kind proves my point. Either Kubiak did a lousy job or the talent wasn't that great. Which one was it IYHO?
 
I dont want to make every thread about Ricky. It's really on Kubiak because even though Ricky wasn't very good at his job, he was Kubiak's handpicked guy. I noticed how you glossed over this and the part of Scooter's Kubiak lovefest by me pointing out Kubiak finished 2-14 with his handpicked GM and all of this supposed talent Kubiak and BOB had.

This just in, the talent wasn't that great. 2-14 kind proves my point. Either Kubiak did a lousy job or the talent wasn't that great. Which one was it IYHO?

Or (I know it goes against your narrative) as has been pointed out ad nauseum and linked to multiple times the case specific instances of that season and just how bad the luck fell for the Texans that year. This year? The Texans are being blessed with probably their most lucky season yet. Or would you argue that too? We can break down the 2013 season game by game and point out all those instances that you attribute to bad talent or GM .. I mean have you even looked at the injury report for that year?
 
I dont want to make every thread about Ricky. It's really on Kubiak because even though Ricky wasn't very good at his job, he was Kubiak's handpicked guy. I noticed how you glossed over this and the part of Scooter's Kubiak lovefest by me pointing out Kubiak finished 2-14 with his handpicked GM and all of this supposed talent Kubiak and BOB had.

This just in, the talent wasn't that great. 2-14 kind proves my point. Either Kubiak did a lousy job or the talent wasn't that great. Which one was it IYHO?

That's weird when you've also acknowledged that Smith stopped being "Kubiak's GM and was "Cal's Godfather'" causing a rift. You've acknowledged everything that I've posted among the timeline. You've acknowledged every move and bit of history that I post. NEVER offering your own of course (just the wet fart 2-14).
 
https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

"Thank you Vance you stupid ************" ... "Yea Brian, we won a game, Is that OK Brian"

Thats your coach. My coach almost died for the team on the sidelines, what has yours done?

1st of all, BOB isn't my coach.

2nd of all if it takes stroking out on the sideline to prove you've done something, then I hope BOB never accomplishes your goals of him being as good as Kubiak.

3rd of all BOB has accomplished the same amount of success with Kubiak's GM who he cant stand. Then BOB gets his GM and sets a franchise record winning streak and that's not good enough for you. Plus when you add in the fact that Kubiak's GM left Gaine/BOB no 1st/2nd rd picks, I happen to think BOB has done a great job of keeping the team together and overcoming an 0-3 start. Most of which was Watson coming back from ACL and BOB's own doing.

You cant even appreciate the 9 game win streak that was accomplished by BOB's team when Watson was playing with broken ribs and a punctured lung.

It's a tough crowd here on TT. Or maybe their blind love of all things Kubiak has clouded their vision.
 
Or (I know it goes against your narrative) as has been pointed out ad nauseum and linked to multiple times the case specific instances of that season and just how bad the luck fell for the Texans that year. This year? The Texans are being blessed with probably their most lucky season yet. Or would you argue that too? We can break down the 2013 season game by game and point out all those instances that you attribute to bad talent or GM .. I mean have you even looked at the injury report for that year?

I agree the Texans have been lucky this yr. But breaking down the 2-14 season to it was just bad luck is either, intellectually dishonest or a flat out lazy way to look at things
 
That's weird when you've also acknowledged that Smith stopped being "Kubiak's GM and was "Cal's Godfather'" causing a rift. You've acknowledged everything that I've posted among the timeline. You've acknowledged every move and bit of history that I post. NEVER offering your own of course (just the wet fart 2-14).

You know my feelings.

Kubiak brought Smith here and suffered the consequences of that decision. So tell me that 2-14 season, did Kubiak do a bad job, or was the talent not that great?

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
1st of all, BOB isn't my coach.

2nd of all if it takes stroking out on the sideline to prove you've done something, then I hope BOB never accomplishes your goals of him being as good as Kubiak.

3rd of all BOB has accomplished the same amount of success with Kubiak's GM who he cant stand. Then BOB gets his GM and sets a franchise record winning streak and that's not good enough for you. Plus when you add in the fact that Kubiak's GM left Gaine/BOB no 1st/2nd rd picks, I happen to think BOB has done a great job of keeping the team together and overcoming an 0-3 start. Most of which was Watson coming back from ACL and BOB's own doing.

You cant even appreciate the 9 game win streak that was accomplished by BOB's team when Watson was playing with broken ribs and a punctured lung.

It's a tough crowd here on TT. Or maybe their blind love of all things Kubiak has clouded their vision.

No you're assuming that I cant appreciate a 9 game win streak which I am, and have given Bob his due, but I wont sit idly by while you guys disparage and discredit what Kubiak did for the team, and how poorly he was treated on his way out and paint Obrien as some coaching savant.

I mean how do you explain giving a guy who came off a 4-12 season himself an extension? Like I've said it doesnt matter .. Kubiak won a ring as a head coach 2 years removed from the TExans telling him he didnt have what it takes. I guess he did have what it took huh? SIMPLE. AS. THAT.

So when people stop talking down on Kubiak like he was the sole reason that the team imploded in 2013 then I'll stop defending him. Just like you guys defend anything Obrien gets criticized for. So this topic can ride off into the sunset and I'd be fine with it because facts tell a different story and even further OUTCOMES close the subject entirely. FINITO.
 
Must've done something right the previous two years, I wonder what changed. Since you never offer any sort of diagnosis to ... well anything*, how about you give it a shot.

*This guy sucks after bad things happen, not much of an opinion. Kinda your shtick though.

Nope, I've often said Kubiak's best coaching job in Houston was the 12-4 season. He got more out of that team than most HC's possibly could have.
 
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