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State of the O-line

JB said:
trying to keep Watson upright
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As long as O'Brien continues to keep Devlin as his OL Coach, I don't think his biggest concern is keeping Watson healthy. He may think this is what he would like to accomplish but he just doesn't have the skills to go out and make it happen.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
As long as O'Brien continues to keep Devlin as his OL Coach, I don't think his biggest concern is keeping Watson healthy. He may think this is what he would like to accomplish but he just doesn't have the skills to go out and make it happen.
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I agree with you bit I don't think OB does
 
TheRealJoker said:
When the alternative is starting Kendall Lamm you do whatever other option is on the table first. Even if it’s wheeling Rankin off the trainer’s table and moving Davenport to a position he hasn’t had any reps all offseason...
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I don't think that makes sense. Rankin is worse than Lamm and OBrien should have recognized that
 
I didn't want Lamm anywhere near this OL but his play, although not great has been adequate, which is still a mind numbing surprise.
 
TheRealJoker said:
It was with Seantrel Henderson who was injured for the season early game 1.
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I really thought that signing was a joke. He hadn't played due to injuries/illness since 2015. That's not my idea of addressing the issue, I think he would have been worse than Lamm too.
 
TheKDog said:
I really thought that signing was a joke. He hadn't played due to injuries/illness since 2015. That's not my idea of addressing the issue, I think he would have been worse than Lamm too.
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I disagree with this statement.

He was a very good RT on a good Bills OL before illness struck him. Lammhas always sucked although he doesn't suck quite as bad this yr.
 
usernameJJ said:
Does anybody know where I could find the grades for all of the Texans' OL through the first 7 games of this season?
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https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol great site that gives you stats to digest and come up with your own conclusions

PFF does the grading of linemen, but they typically operate behind a pay wall ... check out their weekly TEXAN tweet they will normally release the grades for the linemen .. psssss its not very good for us.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Texans?s=03
 
It can get old harping on the offensive line every week, but every week the performance is hard to ignore. Though they only allowed three hits and one sack on the day but stillDavenport(37.6),Kelemete(34.2) andMancz(38.3) all had pass-blocking grades below 40 for the game. Simply put, that means even if they weren’t allowing hit or even a pressure, they were getting beat consistently and sometimes badly. Not surprising considering the talent and depth of the Jaguars’ defense but it is something to keep a close eye on.
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https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...tball-focus-grades-texans-in-win-over-jaguars
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I've been lipping off a bit about our Oline play the last week or two and even specifically claimed that Davenport was playing semi-acceptably.
OK this goes to show I don't know dog-crap about Oline play and some folks who allegedly do @ PFF have set the record straight atleast for Sundays action in FLA vs the Jags.
 
IDEXAN said:
It can get old harping on the offensive line every week, but every week the performance is hard to ignore. Though they only allowed three hits and one sack on the day but stillDavenport(37.6),Kelemete(34.2) andMancz(38.3) all had pass-blocking grades below 40 for the game. Simply put, that means even if they weren’t allowing hit or even a pressure, they were getting beat consistently and sometimes badly. Not surprising considering the talent and depth of the Jaguars’ defense but it is something to keep a close eye on.
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https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...tball-focus-grades-texans-in-win-over-jaguars
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I've been lipping off a bit about our Oline play the last week or two and even specifically claimed that Davenport was playing semi-acceptably.
OK this goes to show I don't know dog-crap about Oline play and some folks who allegedly do @ PFF have set the record straight atleast for Sundays action in FLA vs the Jags.
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I think we all realize that Davenport has had some pretty bad games this season and he seems to be most everyone's favorite "whipping boy" for now, but I for one am hoping, as I have all season, for at least some steady improvement from him, and the whole O-line in general. What we all should remember is that this is only Davenport's 8th or 9th game as a starter and maybe only his 5th or 6th as a starting LT. Was DB very good after his 8th or 9th game? And remember, DB was a 1st rd pick from a bigger school (Virginia Tech) that played against much better competition than Davenport ever saw at Bucknell.

The point is, Davenport's development will take time and I don't think the Texans did him any favors by moving him over to RT for a few games either. They need to leave him at LT and keep working with him and give him some help with an extra lineman (as a blocking TE) when needed. These next 9 games will be very critical for him (and Watson) and will probably determine whether he makes it or not. I'm still pulling for him to make it. We probably don't have any other choice since it's not like the Texans are well stocked at LT or anything. Davenport's success could be the difference in Watson staying healthy enough to play and the teams success. His failure, well let's just say it could ruin not only his NFL career but Watson's too, and no one wants to see that.
 
Greg Mancz - 70.1 Run Blocking Grade
Greg Mancz rattled off a grade higher than any in this category by injured starting right guard Zach Fulton. Mancz was also a part of the standout dominant rushing play where he and center Nick Martin and right tackle Kendall Lamm combined to blow the Jaguars defense off the line of scrimmage and open a huge hole for Lamar Miller. It was much better than Mancz's other starting appearance which was at left guard against the Giants earlier this season. With the short week, he may get to ply his trade against the Dolphins if Fulton hasn't fully recovered.
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https://houston.sportsmap.com/pro-f...osweiler-playing-well-two-texans-bounce-back/
But run-blocking is entirely a different story according to PPF.
 
when does the thread "anyone think they owe Davenport and apology?" begin? No I won't but my guy did very well. No penalties and even when the TE was not helping him, I think he did very well. Long way to go but he handled his guy most of game if not every play. Dolphins are not Denver but this was a good game to build confidence of players and fans. I'm hoping Rankins gets more work at LG next couple weeks. Kelemete did better than I hoped with injuries. As I've said a young guy like D needs a solid, healthy guy at LG. If Rankin not ready for Washington, perhaps Fulton will be back and either he or Mancz moves to LG.
 
Mancz IMO has been the highlight in the past two games. He's getting bulldozed at times, and wouldn't be out there on a good line (none of our roster would IMO), but he's doing work and showing decent technique and a ****-ton of fight.
 
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Scooter said:
Mancz IMO has been the highlight in the past two games. He's getting bulldozed at times, and wouldn't be out there on a good line (none of our roster would IMO), but he's doing work and showing decent technique and a ****-ton of fight.
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yeah a scrapper whom I liked at center but not at OG & I'm cool saying he is much better there. Kelemete has been a let down regardless of injury and Lamm surprisingly better than I viewed him. This was a satisfying game for me. As said Watson doesn't need much to play like GOAT. Just another second by line and bit more from Miller & time with offense getting it together. This was a game we should win and why it scared me. Losing Joseph...whoa. Then Jackson heads for blue tent and I was feeling pukey. We can immediately strengthen out team trading for Peterson and raise our defense even higher in NFL ranking--a no brainer for me even if Bell isn't.
 
Scooter said:
Mancz IMO has been the highlight in the past two games. He's getting bulldozed at times, and wouldn't be out there on a good line (none of our roster would IMO), but he's doing work and showing decent technique and a ****-ton of fight.
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yeah a scrapper whom I liked at center but not at OG & I'm cool saying he is much better there. Kelemete has been a let down regardless of injury and Lamm surprisingly better than I viewed him. This was a satisfying game for me. As said Watson doesn't need much to play like GOAT. Just another second by line and bit more from Miller & time with offense getting it together. This was a game we should win and why it scared me. Losing Joseph...whoa. Then Jackson heads for blue tent and I was feeling pukey. We can immediately strengthen out team trading for Peterson and raise our defense even higher in NFL ranking--a no brainer for me even if Bell isn't.
 
badboy said:
yeah a scrapper whom I liked at center but not at OG & I'm cool saying he is much better there. Kelemete has been a let down regardless of injury and Lamm surprisingly better than I viewed him. This was a satisfying game for me. As said Watson doesn't need much to play like GOAT. Just another second by line and bit more from Miller & time with offense getting it together. This was a game we should win and why it scared me. Losing Joseph...whoa. Then Jackson heads for blue tent and I was feeling pukey. We can immediately strengthen out team trading for Peterson and raise our defense even higher in NFL ranking--a no brainer for me even if Bell isn't.
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Absolutely, and I semi take back my statement - I would probably keep him on a good line at center.

Bell is nowhere near my radar. Peterson certainly is though. How often do you get a chance at a veteran corner with size, length, elite athleticism, 3x all-pro and a clean bill of health?
 
IDEXAN said:
Greg Mancz - 70.1 Run Blocking Grade
Greg Mancz rattled off a grade higher than any in this category by injured starting right guard Zach Fulton. Mancz was also a part of the standout dominant rushing play where he and center Nick Martin and right tackle Kendall Lamm combined to blow the Jaguars defense off the line of scrimmage and open a huge hole for Lamar Miller. It was much better than Mancz's other starting appearance which was at left guard against the Giants earlier this season. With the short week, he may get to ply his trade against the Dolphins if Fulton hasn't fully recovered.
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https://houston.sportsmap.com/pro-f...osweiler-playing-well-two-texans-bounce-back/
But run-blocking is entirely a different story according to PPF.
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2 games with Mancz no Fulton, 2 games the run game has been insane good. I know it's not that simple, but......
 
Speedy said:
2 games with Mancz no Fulton, 2 games the run game has been insane good. I know it's not that simple, but......
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Not sure if 'insane good' is the phrase I would use, but it's certainly getting better. Miller is the offense's Kareem Jackson to me ... infinitely better than given credit for, but put in impossible situations and against his skillset. Miller likes working the front side of run plays and choosing either the designed guard/tackle gap or bouncing outside if the outside defender loses leverage. Mancz has been providing that gap for the first time, and giving Miller the lanes that he can have success with. Our scheme still appears to be 'hat on a hat' in the run game, but it seems that Mancz and Miller have found a connection.
 
badboy said:
yeah a scrapper whom I liked at center but not at OG & I'm cool saying he is much better there. Kelemete has been a let down regardless of injury and Lamm surprisingly better than I viewed him. This was a satisfying game for me. As said Watson doesn't need much to play like GOAT. Just another second by line and bit more from Miller & time with offense getting it together. This was a game we should win and why it scared me. Losing Joseph...whoa. Then Jackson heads for blue tent and I was feeling pukey. We can immediately strengthen out team trading for Peterson and raise our defense even higher in NFL ranking--a no brainer for me even if Bell isn't.
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Lamm has looked a lot better since Mancz has been the RG......just like Su'a-Filo, who had his best season when Mancz was the starting Center.
 
No sacks, 400+ yards of offense including 180+ rushing yards! Yeah, I say that was progress! Davenport, and indeed the whole O-line, looked pretty good. Yes, I know Watson helped them look good and I know Miami's defense is not an elite defense or anything, but this was a good win for the Team and the whole O-line. Congrats on a great game!

Now, they have to "lick their wounds" and hope they have all their injured players ready to play at Denver. Fuller is probably the most concerning. They're saying it could be an ACL tear. :(
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Lamm has looked a lot better since Mancz has been the RG......just like Su'a-Filo, who had his best season when Mancz was the starting Center.
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Has Mancz finally proven enough to stay in the lineup? Bullshit he was ever taken out to begin with, he has been the Texans top performing lineman since 2016, yet they keep replacing him with garbage. He was an absolute beast last night, the best performance on the team with the exception of Watson.
 
gs27 said:
Has Mancz finally proven enough to stay in the lineup? Bullshit he was ever taken out to begin with, he has been the Texans top performing lineman since 2016, yet they keep replacing him with garbage. He was an absolute beast last night, the best performance on the team with the exception of Watson.
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Mancz is a fireball. Best at center, but I would assume him as near equal at both guard positions better than our other options. With our lack of talent, I would continue him at RG since it's nonsensical to adjust something that is finally working. Much like when teams knew we had to run left because Brown was our only offensive lineman, it's in our best interest to condense our positives into a focal point.
 
Scooter said:
Mancz is a fireball. Best at center, but I would assume him as near equal at both guard positions better than our other options. With our lack of talent, I would continue him at RG since it's nonsensical to adjust something that is finally working. Much like when teams knew we had to run left because Brown was our only offensive lineman, it's in our best interest to condense our positives into a focal point.
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He didn't look all that good last time he played LG. Hopefully Fulton can play there with no drop-off
 
I'd be 100% behind Rankins making the permanent move to LG. He has 8+ games to take ownership of the position and reduce OL worries by one going into 2019. If Fulton is 100%, I really might try him in some rotational snaps with Martin at Center. I'd really like to see an interior OL of; LG, Rankin / OC- Mancz / RG- Fulton entering the 2019 Off-Season. I believe there is adequate talent at the moment to fill the Depth Chart on the OL. I'd focus the draft on two potential LT's early and one development OT later.
 
Fulton played center pretty well for the Chiefs last year right? Maybe he can take over at center if Martin struggles, although I didn't notice him struggling last night. This would keep Mancz at RG where he has been good at, he struggled at LG earlier i nthe year.

I need to re-watch the game, being at the stadium is awesome, but you miss a lot of the nuances
 
RE: Mancz although coaches would deny it may be Martin's pedigree and 2nd round pick pushing over Mancz. Both have injuries but latter best player. Last season I posted Lamm was liked by coaches but TBH I didn't see it. Good thing line getting better as focus on WR needs to sharpen. Maybe a backup steps up.
 
badboy said:
RE: Mancz although coaches would deny it may be Martin's pedigree and 2nd round pick pushing over Mancz. Both have injuries but latter best player. Last season I posted Lamm was liked by coaches but TBH I didn't see it. Good thing line getting better as focus on WR needs to sharpen. Maybe a backup steps up.
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Where is Coates and Smyth?
 
badboy said:
Yes Fulton was good at Center but so was Mancz. Best player at each spot and Martin to back up. With team history he will start somewhere soon.
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It's evident that they aren't gonna move Martin out of the starting center spot even if it appears others could be more capably there.
I dunno why but maybe it's because they don't want to make the admission that Martin was not worthy of being drafted high as he was but why can't O'Brien just do what SteelB does which is blame Rick Smith for using a second-round pick on Martin ?
 
IDEXAN said:
It's evident that they aren't gonna move Martin out of the starting center spot even if it appears others could be more capably there.
I dunno why but maybe it's because they don't want to make the admission that Martin was not worthy of being drafted high as he was but why can't O'Brien just do what SteelB does which is blame Rick Smith for using a second-round pick on Martin ?
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I've also been puzzled with Mancz getting passed over for a starting role, from the get go. I have no way to back this up, but I'm considering whether the strong point of Mancz's game is the mental aspect. I believe I recall his profile coming out of college is that he never misplayed his assignment and made the correct decision whom to block. I wonder if physically, though, the other inside linemen have more going for them. If in practice, Mancz doesn't show as well, but it's in game situations when his intelligence, instincts and game smarts makes his light shine. Could it be this practice vs game difference in evaluation?
 
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from PFF

The #Texans

 O-line's performance vs. the Dolphins was arguably their best showing of the season, allowing 0 sacks, 1 hit and 6 pressures. Pass-blocking grades and pressures allowed:
Davenport - 79.7 (2)
Kelemete - 86.8 (0)
Martin - 83.2 (0)
Mancz - 80.5 (1)
Lamm - 61.2 (3)

I understand when Fulton was in he was our best lineman. But with how our line has been run blocking with him out and our pass blocking improving as well, I have a hard time just inserting him back in. Cohesiveness on a line is much more important than individual performance, and these 5 have produced the best results so far. Even if Fultin is ready to go this week I still tell him to take some extra time and see if these 5 can replicate their performance. Big thing Mancz can help Martin with protection calls
 
Shishkabob said:
from PFF

The #Texans

 O-line's performance vs. the Dolphins was arguably their best showing of the season, allowing 0 sacks, 1 hit and 6 pressures. Pass-blocking grades and pressures allowed:
Davenport - 79.7 (2)
Kelemete - 86.8 (0)
Martin - 83.2 (0)
Mancz - 80.5 (1)
Lamm - 61.2 (3)

I understand when Fulton was in he was our best lineman. But with how our line has been run blocking with him out and our pass blocking improving as well, I have a hard time just inserting him back in. Cohesiveness on a line is much more important than individual performance, and these 5 have produced the best results so far. Even if Fultin is ready to go this week I still tell him to take some extra time and see if these 5 can replicate their performance. Big thing Mancz can help Martin with protection calls
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I was impressed with Watson's performance last game. But as far as the OL's low number of hits, pressures and sacks allowed, I believe it also has to be put in perspective...........Watson had his lowest passing attempts ever..........only a total 20 during the entire game.
 
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