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State of the O-line

thunderkyss said:
Even if that is true, which I don't believe it is (you'd think he'd get rid of the ball more frequently) that can change from game to game. Snap to snap. The question is how does he handle it over the season.

Right now, my opinion is that he's oblivious of the rush. He doesn't realize where the bad matchups are, & he's completely surprised when the line breaks down, reacting a second too late.

I may have explained it wrong, but basically his pocket awareness needs to improve. Were he looking at the defense his pocket awareness, imo, would be too sensitive.
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All them hits will do that to a QB. Plus not really trusting his legs right now. When he had the threat of his legs as a weapon last season. He was way more decisive, his awareness was on point and he wasn't caught off guard when the pocket broke down.
 
IDEXAN said:
Fowlers sack was from Davenports side. But one sack the entire game, hey not too bad at all.
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I think Ngakoue came from Davenport's side. He did blow by Davenport but Fowler got the sack from the other side. There was another play where either Fowler or Ngakoue (can't remember which) blew by Davenport and looked like they had the sack but Watson managed to get away though I don't know how.
 
Marcus said:
For what, drafting an offensive lineman with a 1st or 2nd rounder?

I’ll believe it when I see it.
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I’d bet everything I have that a left tackle early in the draft is in our future at this point. Most glaring weakness on the team.
 
Remember only time Texans used a first round pick was on Duane Brown in 2008. He struggled his rookie season until he learned speed, scheme and strength next level. Whoever Texans draft in first or second will struggle too until they get their legs under them. Which is why it’s so important to get these young guys reps and time to develop until throwing in the towel.
 
Marcus said:
For what, drafting an offensive lineman with a 1st or 2nd rounder?

I’ll believe it when I see it.
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2 in the 2nd round in the last 5 years, with no 2nd rounder in 2018... neither was consider a reach at the time of the draft...neither turned into the pro they were supposed to be (I guess Martin still has a chance)
 
Mr teX said:
I’d bet everything I have that a left tackle early in the draft is in our future at this point. Most glaring weakness on the team.
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Either the Jags defensive line ran out of gas or our OL got better as the game progressed. I'm still high on Davenport. He looks the part. Feet look good to me. Balance look good. If strength & level of competition were his biggest concerns coming out of Bucknel, I wouldn't force an OT pick early in the draft.

I want the most talented player we can get, regardless of position. If we're picking in the mid to high 20s.... elite OT is probably off the table.
 
beerlover said:
Remember only time Texans used a first round pick was on Duane Brown in 2008. He struggled his rookie season until he learned speed, scheme and strength next level. Whoever Texans draft in first or second will struggle too until they get their legs under them. Which is why it’s so important to get these young guys reps and time to develop until throwing in the towel.
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Who are these young guys other than Rankin? All of the others have been in the NFL 3 yrs or more.
 
thunderkyss said:
Either the Jags defensive line ran out of gas or our OL got better as the game progressed. I'm still high on Davenport. He looks the part. Feet look good to me. Balance look good. If strength & level of competition were his biggest concerns coming out of Bucknel, I wouldn't force an OT pick early in the draft.

I want the most talented player we can get, regardless of position. If we're picking in the mid to high 20s.... elite OT is probably off the table.
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Yep, you're high alright if you think Davenport is anything besides awful. This is why I hope they trade for an established LT like Humphries and draft another OT. If they are unable to make a trade for an established LT then if they have to trade up to get their LT of the future then so be it.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, you're high alright if you think Davenport is anything besides awful. This is why I hope they trade for an established LT like Humphries and draft another OT. If they are unable to make a trade for an established LT then if they have to trade up to get their LT of the future then so be it.
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I remember Bum getting Leon Gray from the Patriots to play LT . That was a steal .

C&D Pointed out Davenports tendency to lunge and said it was from a lack of strength
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
C&D Pointed out Davenports tendency to lunge and said it was from a lack of strength
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Which can be corrected, it's not due to a lack of talent.

We know the plan was not to start Davenport & Lamm at the tackle positions. They pursued a top OT didn't get him. They brought in a RT, IR'd him.

Next offseason may turn out the same way, who knows. Right now I'm not on the, "Let's trade up to roll the dice to "fix or OL"

After 7 games, starting the same 5 only once in back to back games none of us know how bad the situation is.

If there's a Todd Gurley or Ezekiel Eliot at pick 25 or so, I'd much rather take him than Greg Robinson after trading 2020's 2nd round pick to move up.
 
I'm scratching my head a little as to how that game played out.

Is Mancz-Martin-Kelemete our best interior OL combo at creating running room, or does the Jags combo of superstar edge rushers leave the middle running lanes open.

Can Fulton may be move to LT instead of Davenport, who in fairness seemed to improve after that brutal first quarter.

Maybe Mancz and Davenport having played together on the 2nd team practice for much of last season allows them to work together better now?
 
welsh texan said:
I'm scratching my head a little as to how that game played out.

Is Mancz-Martin-Kelemete our best interior OL combo at creating running room, or does the Jags combo of superstar edge rushers leave the middle running lanes open.

Can Fulton may be move to LT instead of Davenport, who in fairness seemed to improve after that brutal first quarter.

Maybe Mancz and Davenport having played together on the 2nd team practice for much of last season allows them to work together better now?
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If it was the way O'Brien and Devlin might see it......LG- Mancz, OC- Martin, RG- Fulton could be the best group for the interior.

On the other hand, my view would look more like.....LG- Rankin, OC- Mancz, RG- Fulton. I could see this interior group setting the foundation for 2019 as well.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, you're high alright if you think Davenport is anything besides awful. This is why I hope they trade for an established LT like Humphries and draft another OT. If they are unable to make a trade for an established LT then if they have to trade up to get their LT of the future then so be it.
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Your ability to objectively evaluate personnel performance is being significantly undermined by your extreme dislike of Rick Smith.
Julien Davenport, drafted in the forth round by Smith last year, played somewhat better yesterday against a very formidable NFL front line in which he & Oline teammates gave up only one sack and also blocked effectively enough in rushing plays to give Lamar Miller his first 100-yard game in two seasons.
Davenport is a young man doing his best at learning one of the toughest positions in the NFL so give the kid a break and recognize his improvement.
Has he had really bad games ? You bet and he's probably gonna have some more really bad games ? But he's showing some progress.
 
Davenport has had 2 offseasons with 2 strength and conditioning training coaches, including the last one with the guru from Denver. This last offseason, he increased upper body muscle bulk..........but unfortunately little increased strength. And as far as his foot work, it is NOT good. In fact, it is closer to terrible. All of this increasingly shows up as the degree of competition he faces is raised. If we had any half way decent options at LT now, no one should kid themselves that Davenport would still be taking up space there.
 
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IDEXAN said:
Your ability to objectively evaluate personnel performance is being significantly undermined by your extreme dislike of Rick Smith.
Julien Davenport, drafted in the forth round by Smith last year, played somewhat better yesterday against a very formidable NFL front line in which he & Oline teammates gave up only one sack and also blocked effectively enough in rushing plays to give Lamar Miller his first 100-yard game in two seasons.
Davenport is a young man doing his best at learning one of the toughest positions in the NFL so give the kid a break and recognize his improvement.
Has he had really bad games ? You bet and he's probably gonna have some more really bad games ? But he's showing some progress.
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1st of all, I dont hate Ricky or anybody for that matter. He just wasn't very good at his job and should've been gone long ago.

2nd, Davenport sucks and always will, I counted 5 pressures and 3 hits he allowed on Watson in the 1st 10 mins of the game. So if he's getting better, (Which is true) then he will have to get alot better to become more than an UDFA LT posing as a starting LT. In the meantime due to his play Watson is playing with a punctured lung and Henderson (Directly) is out for the season due to his terrible play. H
ow many more guys does he get hurt this yr?

BTW, I dont blame Ricky for Davenport, although he was another wasted 2-4th rd pick, Devlin went and worked Davenport out (Another reason I want Devlin gone) and Gaine/BOB knew Davenport wasn't ready at best and sucked at worst. Yet they chose to roll with Davenport at LT.
 
Can’t blame any Houston Texan Fan from holding a grudge against both Rick Smith and or Charlie Casserly. Texans GM’s have sucked, especially given resources.

Once Texans drafted Watson their #1 priority should have been to resign Duane and use their 2nd rd pick on another tackle to develop (Dawkins over Cunningham). Good LT’s are near impossible to get and once that window closed, Gaine entered picture with numerous other areas that needed improvement as well. Rarely ever is a good LT available in free agency.

I’m on record (2018) they needed to identify and then move up in the draft to get the best possible LT prospect using 3rd and now even compensatory picks are tradeable. Hate rehashing this over and over but there was some good OL talent available for low cost move up in second. Kicker was O’Brian and staff worked the prospects up close and personal during Senior Bowl week. They must not of fell in love with any of them, otherwise we’d be having a whole different discussion? Two tackle prospects worth mentioning, not in hindsight but back in the moment were Pitt LT Brian O’Neil #62 to Vikings then Brandon Parker #65 chosen by the Raiders. Texans went BPA Justin Reid #68.

Gaine choose to let the draft come to him. He decided there were too many holes to fill. Knowing full well Texans were gonna roll with three new FA OL pickups to revamp line. Unfortunately Henderson was lost early, Fulton and Kelemete have started for the most part but they are only interior lineman. So they had to put Davenport on a fast track and yes he’s struggled, doesn’t have the feet but shows plenty of heart.
 
beerlover said:
I’m on record (2018) they needed to identify and then move up in the draft to get the best possible LT prospect using 3rd and now even compensatory picks are tradeable.
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Generally agree with your post. But we don't have to get the best LT and make an unnecessary trade. DB was the 7th OT taken iirc. They just need to decide which ones they like and then yes move, if necessary, to get one.

Didn't they actually move back a little and take DB, iirc?
 
beerlover said:
Can’t blame any Houston Texan Fan from holding a grudge against both Rick Smith and or Charlie Casserly. Texans GM’s have sucked, especially given resources.

Once Texans drafted Watson their #1 priority should have been to resign Duane and use their 2nd rd pick on another tackle to develop (Dawkins over Cunningham). Good LT’s are near impossible to get and once that window closed, Gaine entered picture with numerous other areas that needed improvement as well. Rarely ever is a good LT available in free agency.

I’m on record (2018) they needed to identify and then move up in the draft to get the best possible LT prospect using 3rd and now even compensatory picks are tradeable. Hate rehashing this over and over but there was some good OL talent available for low cost move up in second. Kicker was O’Brian and staff worked the prospects up close and personal during Senior Bowl week. They must not of fell in love with any of them, otherwise we’d be having a whole different discussion? Two tackle prospects worth mentioning, not in hindsight but back in the moment were Pitt LT Brian O’Neil #62 to Vikings then Brandon Parker #65 chosen by the Raiders. Texans went BPA Justin Reid #68.

Gaine choose to let the draft come to him. He decided there were too many holes to fill. Knowing full well Texans were gonna roll with three new FA OL pickups to revamp line. Unfortunately Henderson was lost early, Fulton and Kelemete have started for the most part but they are only interior lineman. So they had to put Davenport on a fast track and yes he’s struggled, doesn’t have the feet but shows plenty of heart.
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Yet the Pats managed to trade for a serviceable LT (Trent Brown) using their late 3rd rd pick. Brown could've been gotten with the Rankin pick. BTW, this isn't hindsight just as your O'Neal thoughts weren't hindsight.
 
steelbtexan said:
1st of all, I dont hate Ricky or anybody for that matter. He just wasn't very good at his job and should've been gone long ago.

2nd, Davenport sucks and always will, I counted 5 pressures and 3 hits he allowed on Watson in the 1st 10 mins of the game. So if he's getting better, (Which is true) then he will have to get alot better to become more than an UDFA LT posing as a starting LT. In the meantime due to his play Watson is playing with a punctured lung and Henderson (Directly) is out for the season due to his terrible play. H
ow many more guys does he get hurt this yr?

BTW, I dont blame Ricky for Davenport, although he was another wasted 2-4th rd pick, Devlin went and worked Davenport out (Another reason I want Devlin gone) and Gaine/BOB knew Davenport wasn't ready at best and sucked at worst. Yet they chose to roll with Davenport at LT.
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If that's the case then he improved a lot as the game went on. The stats show there as only 1 sack, and 5 hits on Watson all day, by far our lowest total of the season
 
steelbtexan said:
Yet the Pats managed to trade for a serviceable LT (Trent Brown) using their late 3rd rd pick. Brown could've been gotten with the Rankin pick. BTW, this isn't hindsight just as your O'Neal thoughts weren't hindsight.
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Could've been, but Bay area reporters that work with the team have said it was a return favor for Jimmy G, as soon as the 9ers drafted their guy, and made Brown available for trade the Pats called in the favor. I think you would have had to given up more to get them to not trade with the Pats, and we didn't have that capital this draft. But we can make it up and just sign him this off season
 
Shishkabob said:
Could've been, but Bay area reporters that work with the team have said it was a return favor for Jimmy G, as soon as the 9ers drafted their guy, and made Brown available for trade the Pats called in the favor. I think you would have had to given up more to get them to not trade with the Pats, and we didn't have that capital this draft. But we can make it up and just sign him this off season
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Then they should've given up what it took to protect Watson. Let me put it to you this way, would you give up (And I like them) Rankins/Akins for Trent Brown? I would have.

Also I dont believe that story.
 
steelbtexan said:
Then they should've given up what it took to protect Watson. Let me put it to you this way, would you give up (And I like them) Rankins/Akins for Trent Brown? I would have.

Also I dont believe that story.
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probably, but just like in free agency it only takes 2 to tango. If the 9ers only were hoping to get a 3rd rounder, and they put him on the block and NE calls up and says they are willing to give up that 3rd rounder that the 9ers were just hoping to get to begin with then the Texans might not have gotten a chance to get a call in. These things happen in the draft, it happens fast, I am going to side with the reporters who work in that building daily forming relationships with the people who work for the organization so they can get this inside info that we are not privy to.
 
Shishkabob said:
probably, but just like in free agency it only takes 2 to tango. If the 9ers only were hoping to get a 3rd rounder, and they put him on the block and NE calls up and says they are willing to give up that 3rd rounder that the 9ers were just hoping to get to begin with then the Texans might not have gotten a chance to get a call in. These things happen in the draft, it happens fast, I am going to side with the reporters who work in that building daily forming relationships with the people who work for the organization so they can get this inside info that we are not privy to.
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That trade was made before the draft. If Lynch didn't call around to get the best deal possible then he wasn't doing his job. Lynch is a really smart guy and that's why I dont believe those reports.

Respectfully agree to disagree.
 
infantrycak said:
Generally agree with your post. But we don't have to get the best LT and make an unnecessary trade. DB was the 7th OT taken iirc. They just need to decide which ones they like and then yes move, if necessary, to get one.

Didn't they actually move back a little and take DB, iirc?
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I like getting the best players, if you have to trade up to get them so be it. The reason they were able to trade back and get DB is HOF'er Alex Gibbs worked out Brown and determined he was a 1st rd pick, he was rated at as a 3rd rd pick by analysts at that time. Odds of finding another DB under these circumstances is rare.
 
DB was rated 1st round and San Diego was going to take him with the 27th pick. I love Gibbs but apparently didnt take a HOFer to spot DB.

You can't run around demanding the best at a position and build a team. Too expensive. You're giving away all your depth picks to move up.
 
steelbtexan said:
I like getting the best players, if you have to trade up to get them so be it. The reason they were able to trade back and get DB is HOF'er Alex Gibbs worked out Brown and determined he was a 1st rd pick, he was rated at as a 3rd rd pick by analysts at that time. Odds of finding another DB under these circumstances is rare.
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Thought Dawkins could be that guy in 2017 draft and 2018 draft Brandon Parker. Common denominator, nasty streak with required athleticism.
 
infantrycak said:
DB was rated 1st round and San Diego was going to take him with the 27th pick. I love Gibbs but apparently didnt take a HOFer to spot DB.

You can't run around demanding the best at a position and build a team. Too expensive. You're giving away all your depth picks to move up.
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1 team

Yes you can in a particular draft if

1. You prioritize a certain player you think is worthy of the pick you want to trade up for and prioritize keeping your franchise QB healthy at all costs.

2. If you GM is good at hitting on rds 3-6 picks, which is something Gaine proved to be good at last yr a trade shouldn't hurt your depth. This is where Ricky consistently struggled and fans have been conditioned to think the way yo you. When in fact if Ricky had used all of the picks he blew in those rds to move up and get more talented players the Texans would have a much better team and Ricky would prbably still have a job. (Yes, I know Ricky's story and he's still employed.)

We just have different draft philosophies. Nothing wrong with that.
 
IDEXAN said:
You sure fooled me on that one.
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I do that to people all of the time.

People keep saying how lucky I am. I agree with them and hope to keep on being lucky/blessed. It's better to be lucky/blessed than it is to be good.
 
infantrycak said:
DB was rated 1st round and San Diego was going to take him with the 27th pick. I love Gibbs but apparently didnt take a HOFer to spot DB.

You can't run around demanding the best at a position and build a team. Too expensive. You're giving away all your depth picks to move up.
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Yeah if i recall there was a run on tackles that draft and if DB wasn't rated a 1st rounder, the run on tackles was gonna make him 1.
 
steelbtexan said:
I do that to people all of the time.

People keep saying how lucky I am. I agree with them and hope to keep on being lucky/blessed. It's better to be lucky/blessed than it is to be good.
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When you pay a guard the kind of money the Jaguars paidAndrew Norwell, you expect consistent performance at a spot where you’re not going to get big plays. Sadly, the return on the investment hasn’t been there, and Norwell, much like his colleagues, had difficulty with the stunting and aggressive Texans front.
&&&
https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...ek-7-houston-texans-20-jacksonville-jaguars-7
&&&
Hey SteelB see you were right about our new GM's abilities (too smart to bite on Norwell at the asking price in FA), but wrong about Norwell at the going price.
 
That's the thing though, you don't know if they made those type of offers. The other party has the power to reject whatever offers you put on the table. Like the Solders thing, he chose to reject our offer because of family reasons. Everyone knows Houston has one of the nest cancer division. But that wasn't enough
 
Texansballer74 said:
That's the thing though, you don't know if they made those type of offers. The other party has the power to reject whatever offers you put on the table. Like the Solders thing, he chose to reject our offer because of family reasons. Everyone knows Houston has one of the nest cancer division. But that wasn't enough
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Or we didn't get Solder because they didn't put a better offer on the board than the NYG's did. But hey, if you want to use the we dont know defense to defend the Texans org then you can use that on almost everything in all walks of life. My brain doesn't work that way thank god.
 
steelbtexan said:
Or we didn't get Solder because they didn't put a better offer on the board than the NYG's did. But hey, if you want to use the we dont know defense to defend the Texans org then you can use that on almost everything in all walks of life. My brain doesn't work that way thank god.
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Devil's advocat here, even if our offer was the exact same as the Giant's ours is considerably better money wise due to their state income tax. He would take home over $1.5 mil a year here compared to what he takes home there. He also very easily could have done to us what Osweiler did to Denver. Had us both bidding back and forth with each other, as soon as the team he wanted to go to hit the number he was targeting he cut off lines of communication with the other team. Elway stated this happened to him, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities to think that Solder who wanted to stay in the north east for personal reasons could have done the same thing. The Texans FO isn't as vocal about these things as Elway is so they wouldn't come out and say it. Solder was AWFUL last game though, let's see how he is tonight
 
Shishkabob said:
Devil's advocat here, even if our offer was the exact same as the Giant's ours is considerably better money wise due to their state income tax. He would take home over $1.5 mil a year here compared to what he takes home there. He also very easily could have done to us what Osweiler did to Denver. Had us both bidding back and forth with each other, as soon as the team he wanted to go to hit the number he was targeting he cut off lines of communication with the other team. Elway stated this happened to him, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities to think that Solder who wanted to stay in the north east for personal reasons could have done the same thing. The Texans FO isn't as vocal about these things as Elway is so they wouldn't come out and say it. Solder was AWFUL last game though, let's see how he is tonight
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Agreed, just saying it's a fallacy that the Texans put a better offer on the table. Of course like some on this MB you can always go to the we dont know card. But can we speculate? This is a MB, speculation is a big part of a MB.

Not directed at you, but sometimes I feel like saying to people in all of these threads that dont have proof WE DONT KNOW, that may turn into alot of fun for me.

Like the Texans are doing everything they possibly can to put the best product possible on the field each yr. # We dont know
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, just saying it's a fallacy that the Texans put a better offer on the table. Of course like some on this MB you can always go to the we dont know card. But can we speculate? This is a MB, speculation is a big part of a MB.

Not directed at you, but sometimes I feel like saying to people in all of these threads that dont have proof WE DONT KNOW, that may turn into alot of fun for me.

Like the Texans are doing everything they possibly can to put the best product possible on the field each yr. # We dont know
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yea there are a lot of times when the Texans could have done more to land or retain a player *cough* Bouye *cough*, but in Solder's case just from what he has said himself, I think he was looking at a lot more than just money
 
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