Neither draft pick was poo-poohed either. OB has plenty of warts as a HC. Why bash him with BS draft stuff?
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Shishkabob
All Pro
because the HC and GM usually work together creating a big board, making draft day strategies, etc.. Ultimately the final decision is the GMs, but just because you arent the trigger man doesn't make you innocent in the crime.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It's been well documented that they worked as a team. Basic understanding should tell us it's the GM and scout team to go after players that the coaches wants. Players that should fit the coaches scheme. Why is that Kubiak, Crennel and Wade got players they wanted to fit their schemes. But when it comes to O'Brien he doesn't. He is the one that wanted Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, and Mallett.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You won't ever see that, so why are you asking for evidence. But you can Google them saying they work together. A collaborative effort is what Obrien said. Now are you calling him a liar?
If there's no evidence, don't attribute culpability of an individual. You're the one making accusations. Provide evidence for said accusations. 32 GMs and HCs work together across the NFL that doesn't indicate complicity of responsibilities. I'm resisting the urge to call you a trolling asshat. Does that mean I called you a trolling asshat?
Texansballer74
The Marine
No I am not. We've been down this road several times. Shots every year. And articles have been posted on here stating they work together.
And why are taking that foolish ass route. I didn't come at you in a disrespectful manner so why the bleep are you coming at me like that.
Some of you people be on some real bullcrap sometimes.
The evidence is there you just don't want to admit it.
Bob still works on Kirby. Ricky not so much.
"If we really like a player and we have conviction on this player, like we know we have a consensus that the scouting staff and the coaching staff like this player, we have a vision, we know where this guy is going to fit, let's go get him," O'Brien said recently in a season ticket holder conference call. "So if we feel like we're going to lose him, let's trade up and go get him."
It was an aggressive second day of the Draft, and O'Brien liked it.
"I don't know if that's been done a lot around here before," O'Brien said. "But I give Rick credit, he did it. He did it twice, and we were able to get some good players. Again, those guys need to go out and play now. But we feel good about where they are."
https://www.battleredblog.com/2015/5/19/8626431/texans-2015-nfl-draft-trades-explained-by-obrien
(Nice shot at Kubiak in the bolded above).
Jets receive:
» 2015 third-round pick (No. 82): Lorenzo Mauldin
» 2015 fifth-round pick (No. 152): Jarvis Harrison
» 2015 seventh-round pick (No. 229): Traded to Jaguars
» WR Devier Posey
Texans receive:
» 2015 third-round pick (No. 70): Jaelen Strong
Eagles receive:
» Fourth-round pick (No. 101): Jaylen Watkins
» Fifth-round pick (No. 141): Taylor Hart
Texans receive:
» Third-round pick (No. 83):
Louis Nix
Texans receive:
» 2016 second-round pick (No. 50): Nick Martin
Falcons receive:
» 2016 second-round pick (No. 52): Deion Jones
» 2016 sixth-round pick (No. 195) : Wez Schweitzer
At least these were better (maybe):
Browns receive:
» 2015 second-round pick (No. 51): Nate Orchard
» 2015 fourth-round pick (No. 116): Traded to Cardinals
» 2015 sixth-round pick (No. 195): Malcolm Johnson
Texans receive:
» 2015 second-round pick (No. 43): Benardrick McKinney
» 2015 seventh-round pick (No. 229): Traded to Jets
Texans receive:
» 2016 first-round pick (No. 21): Will Fuller
Redskins receive:
» 2016 first-round pick (No. 22): Josh Doctson
» 2017 sixth-round pic
Texans receive:
» 2016 fifth-round pick (No. 166): D.J. Reader
Patriots receive:
» WR Keshawn Martin
» 2016 sixth-round pick (No. 196): Traded to Dolphins
It was an aggressive second day of the Draft, and O'Brien liked it.
"I don't know if that's been done a lot around here before," O'Brien said. "But I give Rick credit, he did it. He did it twice, and we were able to get some good players. Again, those guys need to go out and play now. But we feel good about where they are."
https://www.battleredblog.com/2015/5/19/8626431/texans-2015-nfl-draft-trades-explained-by-obrien
(Nice shot at Kubiak in the bolded above).
Jets receive:
» 2015 third-round pick (No. 82): Lorenzo Mauldin
» 2015 fifth-round pick (No. 152): Jarvis Harrison
» 2015 seventh-round pick (No. 229): Traded to Jaguars
» WR Devier Posey
Texans receive:
» 2015 third-round pick (No. 70): Jaelen Strong
Eagles receive:
» Fourth-round pick (No. 101): Jaylen Watkins
» Fifth-round pick (No. 141): Taylor Hart
Texans receive:
» Third-round pick (No. 83):
Louis Nix
Texans receive:
» 2016 second-round pick (No. 50): Nick Martin
Falcons receive:
» 2016 second-round pick (No. 52): Deion Jones
» 2016 sixth-round pick (No. 195) : Wez Schweitzer
At least these were better (maybe):
Browns receive:
» 2015 second-round pick (No. 51): Nate Orchard
» 2015 fourth-round pick (No. 116): Traded to Cardinals
» 2015 sixth-round pick (No. 195): Malcolm Johnson
Texans receive:
» 2015 second-round pick (No. 43): Benardrick McKinney
» 2015 seventh-round pick (No. 229): Traded to Jets
Texans receive:
» 2016 first-round pick (No. 21): Will Fuller
Redskins receive:
» 2016 first-round pick (No. 22): Josh Doctson
» 2017 sixth-round pic
Texans receive:
» 2016 fifth-round pick (No. 166): D.J. Reader
Patriots receive:
» WR Keshawn Martin
» 2016 sixth-round pick (No. 196): Traded to Dolphins
So it's been hit and miss.
But I like the aggressiveness Smith showed. If he only could've pick players better.
If a stud LT or CB is there in the 1st rd I would have no problem at all with Gaine trading up.
Well the reason people say trading up is generally bad (though not always) is that the draft is mostly a "crapshoot" in that there is no way to know which players will pan out. If you compare teams, they all generally hit on good picks at about the same rate. So that's why some analytics folks say it's better to have more picks, even if a few are lower, to have more chances of hitting.
In addition draft picks are younger and cheaper and under team control for awhile. Plus, if they end up being stars, you basically have first dibs at giving them an extension.
This is why the Brock and #2 trade was so bad. If we just cut Brock instead we'd have $16 million less to work with or roll over for one year, but we'd have a second rounder under team control for 4 years.
Of course one never should say never, as the trade ups for QBs like Watson are looking pretty good.
My philosophy is you need to hit on 4 contributors including 3 future starters in each draft. Which is why I'm for in next yrs draft if necessary I would use a 2nd to move up and get my LT. Then use my other 2nd on another OT (If there) then use my 3rd and 4th to trade back into the 2nd and draft a CB. The rest of the draft would be used on talented but trouble players/guys coming off of injury/ST's guys.
All of this trading would be predicated on guys I really like being there when I traded up. I wouldn't trade up for a so so guy just to fill a need.
delete
I can see moving up to a really sure thing or a very high prospect. Otherwise I'd rather have multiple picks in the middle rounds and have more chances of something hitting.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I may just be being optimistic as most are with young draft picks, but I feel like Gaine met your standards without even having his top 2 picks.
Hopefully, the positive signs are there.
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Just different philosophies. I'm ok with fewer picks but higher picks thatin theory should be more talented/ NFL ready than later rd picks. But your philosophy is certainly a valid one. More picks greater chance of finding guys that can play.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
I don't disagree with your approach but not as positive about quality of tackles. If Rankin and Davenport are what I think and are starters going forward, I would look at only one OT early with this exception if Jonah Williams is there round one I get him at our pick. Either way I want Max Scharping N. Illinois who reportedly can play OT and OG. I want for time to evaluate but he is my highest rated OL after Williams that should be available for us. I have him as of now a third round but may move up as I see how he does. Corner is a need but this position very deep so I can see one high and one or two later rounds.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
C'mon Texanballer74.....you can also Google where O'Brien also stated that he "coaches what I'm given". That hardly comes across as a statement a HC would make if he were part of the decision making process.
By the way, O'Brien just hasn't proven himself to be an NFL caliber Head Coach.....might even question his OC credentials since it was with Patriots and Brady and that was his only stint as OC.
And his OC stint lasted one whole year.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I find it so comical to read Buttchin pound his chest about being aggressive in the draft and taking subliminal shots at Koobs, and then I read each one of those 'collaborative' picks and its bust after freakin bust LOL this regime is so inept you have to laugh to keep yourself from crying.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
So damn true.
I also really LOLed at this:
Aug 31 2014
HOUSTON ACQUIRES Ryan Mallett
NEW ENGLAND ACQUIRES 2016 7th round pick(#243 - traded)
Mar 10 2015
HOUSTON ACQUIRES 2016 7th round pick(#235 - traded)
ST. LOUIS ACQUIRES Case Keenum
That's some serious QB evaluation there!
Aug 31 2014
HOUSTON ACQUIRES Ryan Mallett
NEW ENGLAND ACQUIRES 2016 7th round pick(#243 - traded)
Mar 10 2015
HOUSTON ACQUIRES 2016 7th round pick(#235 - traded)
ST. LOUIS ACQUIRES Case Keenum
That's some serious QB evaluation there!
Front office should have been drug tested before March 10 cause not only did they deal away Keenum but next day traded Fitzpatrick to JETS for a late 6th and bag of weed
So O'Brien had Mallet, Fitzpatrick and Keenum, and he decided to keep Mallet.
With the Texans and the following two years with the Rams, Keenum was not a good starting QB. He did an excellent job of using playing opportunities to get better. Not going to presume that another year or two of Bill O'Brien, would have yielded the Keenum, that we saw in 2017. We will see what Case looks like when he is truly the man in 2018.
The Fitzgerald never made sense because you replaced him with a guy whose upside was Fitzgerald.
Shishkabob
All Pro
But he knew THE SYSTEM. Apparently THE SYSTEM is designed to fail
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, i'm a coog and love Keenum...but lets not make him out to be more than he is which is a game manager who had a career year..which happens...Hell Fitzpatrick had a career year here with BoB & then 1 upped that in NYJ. Almost all game managers have those types of years before they come back to earth. I submit for perspective:
Keenum: 22 TD's and 7 ints last year in 15 games...that's with pretty good weapons at his disposal, a bad ass defense and a division minus Aaron Rodgers.
Watson: 19 TD's and 7 ints last year in 6.5 games....Sure Watson was on a torrid pace unlikely to be sustained, but it should be pointed out he had 0 support from his defense.
We saw what Keenum looked like under the same circumstances Watson had last year & it wasn't pretty.
Keenum: 22 TD's and 7 ints last year in 15 games...that's with pretty good weapons at his disposal, a bad ass defense and a division minus Aaron Rodgers.
Watson: 19 TD's and 7 ints last year in 6.5 games....Sure Watson was on a torrid pace unlikely to be sustained, but it should be pointed out he had 0 support from his defense.
We saw what Keenum looked like under the same circumstances Watson had last year & it wasn't pretty.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I never denied that either because I've read that nonsense too. One minute he's saying this and the next he's saying that.
Optimistic I just don't trust that dude. Look at how he responded to McCain asking about calling a timeout on that Questionable Gronk catch. Then the next day he flip flops.
To me when things are going great, its we work as a team to acquire these players. But when things aren't going so well on the field, it was Smith did this and that.
My thing as well is those statements were posted on here. And we've discussed those quotes several times.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I never denied that either because I've read that nonsense too. One minute he's saying this and the next he's saying that.
Optimistic I just don't trust that dude. Look at how he responded to McCain asking about calling a timeout on that Questionable Gronk catch. Then the next day he flip flops.
To me when things are going great, its we work as a team to acquire these players. But when things aren't going so well on the field, it was Smith did this and that.
My thing as well is those statements were posted on here. And we've discussed those quotes several times.
I agree and don't think keenum is a great QB. But he had potential to someday be adequate while mallet may be the worst QB I've ever seen.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Think you're selling one Mr. Nathan Peterman short there.
Unfortunately I did not watch that Bills game
I hope they cut him and sign Mallet. I always enjoyed reading his stat-line of 30 attempts for 60 yards.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Bu..Bu..But the draftniks on this very board tried to convince me that Peterman would be better than Watson!
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Everything is bigger in Texas?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Don't forget he also wanted Hoyer more than all those.
Hoyer.
Evidently so does Belichick
Shishkabob
All Pro
those people are just enamored with a QB playing in a pro style system. They couldn't see that with all his boot legs and roll outs were designed so he only had to read 1/3 to 1/2 of the field
Watson had the exact same knock …. He only had 1 or two reads , usually on the same side of the field. Its not like he was standing in the pocket going thru multiple progressions / levels of defense.
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That's on OB for asking Watson to impersonate Tom Terrific instead of being himself ….. He took away Watson's greatest strength with his game plan.
Belechick didn't have to come up with anything out of the ordinary where his outside rushers played with discipline and didn't take themselves out of the play , they were patient and collapsed the pocket …. while Watson failed at reading a fairly vanilla defense.
Shishkabob
All Pro
yea that's the knock with all spread QBs. I was just saying the people who liked peterman on this board were liking him because he was in a pro system, without realizing it was a very basic, dumbed down pro system. It was about as simple as a spread except he took snaps under center.
True,
I think BOB was scared to cut Watsonloose in his 1st game back coming off of the ACL is what it looked like to me. Atleast that's what I hope was going on. Because otherwise that gameplan was terrible. IMHO
But I'm certainly not well versed in gameplanning.
Who was the only person to hold Michael Jordan under twenty points?
With all the talk of O'Brien's game plan hindering Watson, it reminds me of the old Michael Jordan joke.
Who is the only person who could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 points per game?
With all the talk of O'Brien's game plan hindering Watson, it reminds me of the old Michael Jordan joke.
Who is the only person who could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 points per game?
Actually, Belichick is a Sith Lord;
but I agree with your overall point.