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The Dynasty That Never Was: Inside the Unraveling of the Seattle Seahawks
- Thread starter IDEXAN
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Wasn't hard to see what happened. Let a few of scumbags like Bennett, Sherman, Lynch, and Jefferson act like loudmouths and jackasses over and over saying whatever the hell they want to the media about coaching, politics, the QB, and everything else and you end up with an unraveling team. I have sort of felt bad for Russell Wilson over there. What was such a great all time defense became a group that needed to be broken up. Wagner is still probably their main piece that will be there for the long haul. Great player. Same with Earl Thomas and Chancellor, but those two guys are likely on their way down from this point forward, and Chancellor is retired. Chancellor is HOF to me.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Interesting read...There's clearly alot of bitterness amongst those defensive guys. They know they were the backbone of those teams & resent Pete Carroll for changing up on them. But i can also see why they feel the way they feel. Carroll fostered a certain enviornment & then tried to change that enviornment when he realized what he had in Wilson. Apart from that, Wilson probably just couldn't relate to those guys. That's what happens when you build your team that way though. Defense vs. Offense....That Houston 93' a football life dynamic.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
They had the best coach they could have asked for as far as freedom to be themselves, and they took it to far. The Seahawks are a perfect example of what happens when you get a few loudmouths in your locker room where there is no disciplinary action for them and how they conduct themselves. Carroll was to soft on them. Their personalities got to big for the locker room, and the rest was history. Now they can rebuild around a guy like Russell who exhibits honor and respect a lot more than some of the guys that are no longer in Seattle.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ehh, i don't know if you can say that. If Carroll had gone all Tom Coughlin on them, they probably never ascend to what they became. Aside from that, they have a point. Carroll fostered a certain type of enviornment for years & that's the type of enviornment that won them a championship. The type of competitive enviornment that built the backbone of his championship teams...which was his defense. & whatever his reasons................. he changed up. He got those guys to buy into a certain philosophy then apparently began departing from that philosophy when it came to Wilson. That's where most of those guys had the problem. The icing on the cake was that awful SB call..which by the way after reading the article, i now firmly believe Carroll was trying to buy Wilson some respect amongst those guys.
You earn the respect of your peers, you can't have your coach give it to you...but it sounds like that's exactly what Carroll was trying to do with Wilson.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That's total BS as far as the call goes. That's just been a constant copout for the behavior of guys like Sherman, Bennett, and Jefferson. Sure, that philosophy worked for a while and they won a SB. That was in the beginning when those guys didn't get to outlandish. They got worse and continued to get worse. It became a problem just like anyone's behavior can escalate and go from being not a big deal to a big problem. Russell's INT has never had anything to do with it. Just a copout of a complaint by certain Seahawks fans who can't handle losing a game they had no business being able to win in the first place. Carroll explained that call perfectly and stated 100 times that the call was made based on the formations on the field from NE where he thought that play gave them an advantage in executing it. That's smart coaching. Belicheck did the EXACT SAME PLAY the very next t year in the SB, and NO ONE said a word about how stupid he was for it so all those guys saying that in hind sight were total frauds. Belicheck has always operated like that, and sometimes he makes mistakes, but that's a normal coaching call. They make play calls all of the time based on who is on the field and match ups. People just see an INT and freak out, but they should be congratulating the NE player for simply making a great play just like the guy for the Rams who made the tackle to stop the Titans from winning a SB. And if that one play was enough to set off that entire locker room, then that makes my point completely. They were terrible players to have in the locker room from the start then.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
They were always outlandish which is where i think you're missing the ball here. & of course Carroll would say that, he's the guy who made the call...just like he was the guy who made the call in the Rose Bowl to not have Reggie Bush on the field on that critical 4th down they were stopped on. Now i know how sensitive you are about anything that detracts from the greatness of Brady & the Pats but the fact remains, Carroll now has 2 relatively nonsensical offensive calls and/or decisions that have cost him championships and has now become notorious for outsmarting himself. So whether you choose to believe it or not there at least has to be some creedence to them believing what they believe about his decision to go along with the playcall he did in the SB. & Lol at you comparing the decision of Belichick to make the exact same call..It's apples and oranges for numerous reasons.
I don't think you read the article. It wasn't just that one play on its own. there were numerous things that were going on behind the scenes that they spoke on. The play in the SB just
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Apples and oranges? It's the exact same play call in the exact same situation in the SB two years later. It can't get any similar. Belicheck was even asked about that by the media after the game. Lol! You just didn't know about it, so you don't want to accept that what you thought about Carroll was what a lot of coaches have done in situations like that. It can't be disputed. It's the same play in the same situation. As for the USC game, well THAT is apples to oranges. And who cares any way? He lost a game at the very last 2nd because the Longhorns stopped his bruising RB. Reggie Bush wasn't going to get the ball on that play, nor was he the guy anyone expected to get over White. You just don't like Carroll, but the guy has a ring in college and in the pros which is something almost no other coaches have accomplished.
And to excuse grown professional athletes from acting like morons and wanting to go into the stands is ridiculous. That's like saying "well Odell Beckum was like that when they got him. They knew what they had." Well if Beckum gets way to crazy eventually and hurts the team, then he is no longer a positive. A great player can become a problematic player in no time. See Aaron Hernandez, Richie Incognito, or Mike Vick.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
youre talking about this stuff in a vacuum and clearly it’s not. It’s apples and oranges for 2 reasons..it’s Bill Belichick and Tom Brady that’s why.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE CALL ITSELF. Its about how he twice has thought he was the smartest guy in the room. The call he made in the college title game wasn’t about whether Bush was going to get the ball or not, it was about how he let the longhorns off the hook by not at least making them think Bush COULD get the ball by being on the field. He had his most explosive player on the sideline thereby allowing the Longhorns to sellout on stopping Lendale. It illustrates how he outsmarted himself much like he did with the call in the SB by not giving to the guy whom is known for tough running.
And you’re illustrating my point. The guys u named were Problematic. None of those Seahawks players on defense you’re talking about were anywhere close to being problematic..just outspoken..big difference.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE CALL ITSELF. Its about how he twice has thought he was the smartest guy in the room. The call he made in the college title game wasn’t about whether Bush was going to get the ball or not, it was about how he let the longhorns off the hook by not at least making them think Bush COULD get the ball by being on the field. He had his most explosive player on the sideline thereby allowing the Longhorns to sellout on stopping Lendale. It illustrates how he outsmarted himself much like he did with the call in the SB by not giving to the guy whom is known for tough running.
And you’re illustrating my point. The guys u named were Problematic. None of those Seahawks players on defense you’re talking about were anywhere close to being problematic..just outspoken..big difference.
gs27
Veteran
Locker room split had a lot more to do with the way many of the Seahawks viewed Wilson than it did any decision Carroll made. It was well documented back in 2014 the tension between Wilson and players like Harvin, Lynch and Bennett. Wilson would not partake in some group activities like going to strip clubs after practice and that rubbed a set of players the wrong way because they viewed it as Wilson thinking he was better than them, and he probably did. When Harvin was released it infuriated that group of players even more. This wasn't an offense defense thing. Carroll made a mistake trying to ease tensions between Wilson and certain players and in hind site they should have just gotten rid of all the locker room poison including Lynch and Bennett at the same time as Harvin. Wilson is a top 5 QB in the league, Lynch and Bennett were replaceable, Wilson was not.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
They should have just given the ball to lynch on the goaline.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The article explains why they viewed Wilson that way though & Carroll had a big part in that. The competitive practices and overall mentality that led that team to its ultimate success was that of iron sharpening iron & they felt like Carroll was keeping Wilson away from that. I honestly don't think they would've had a problem if Carroll had of let the defense continue to harden Wilson up...but Carroll seemed to try to coddle him. Everything else is just white noise.
gs27
Veteran
Wilson didn't need a defense to "harden" him up. He was pretty damn good already. Everything started from locker room dynamics which resulted in a big fire long before Carroll coddling Wilson. Had Carroll let it go the fire would not have been extinguished unless they let all the influential players go who were stoking the flames.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He is/was better than all of them. Those three are all scumbags. Makes me respect Wilson even more
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
The only difference is that you always excuse those types of scumbags so you'll never see problems with them. You think players should be able to trash their coaches and their team's philosophy publicly and repeatedly. In the real world that stuff isn't tolerated. Not for long. Guys like Bennett under non political circumstances would be ran out of their industries. You just like those types of guys and don't like guys like Wilson.
As far as those calls go, no you're just playing arm chair QB. The fact that you have three posts now using a double standard towards Carroll that you refuse to address towards Belicheck for the same thing pretty much makes the entire statement false from you. You only have a problem with the call if Carroll makes it, but I know if that play would have been executed, you'd never have said a word about it. Also, the idea that Lynch was some guarantee is ridiculous as well. And the mere fact that one call ruined a team 4 years later is laughable and just ESPN talk. They are the only ones that still push that crap, and fans just regurgitate it. Worst sports network to listen to.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Your post’s on this matter show that you have 0 understanding of team dynamics and your opinion is biased b/c of your vitriol towards those particular players. This was about more than him "being better than all of them".
Aikman dealt with similar “scumbags” and loud mouths but he had no problems........................... b/c he commanded their respect on/off the field.....in practice...wherever. It's the mark of a great leader...people follow you b/c you got them to follow you.
you earn your teammates' respect, you don't get it handed to you...& from the article, it sounds like more than a few of those guys on offense and defense noticed that Carroll kinda cheated that process instead of letting it happen organically & you can't blame those guys for feeling the way they do...
Carroll switched up and lost the locker room....its as simple as that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Please. Those guys tried to drag politics all over their locker room which is asinine from the jump. IF YOU think that's positive for a locker room than you need your head examined. All those dudes weren't about to listen to imbeciles like Michael Bennett about anything unless they were just as foolish as he was and yeah a few in that locker room were which is why they got out of control. I've seen the Bengals and the Cowboys also fall apart due to similar self destructive issues.
I don't see a bunch of people hating on Wilson. Only a few scumbags on a defense that are slightly washed up and simply mad because their coaches aren't putting up with their crap anymore and view them as poor leaders now. The men hating on Wilson have bad reputations, and Wilson does not.
Carroll took back his locker room like a HEAD COACH IS SUPPOSED TO. He got rid of the bad apples. Good for Carroll, but it's likely to late and he'll end up getting fired after this rebuild takes to long.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I wonder if the division in the locker room could've escalated during their SB loss to the Patriots. What if, and I'll preface this by saying I can't remember exactly how the last play went down, Watson changed the called play to a play that would give him the glory for winning the SB?