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State of the O-line

edo783 said:
I watched the first half of the 99er game. Paid fairly close attention to both the left and right tackles based on the direction they were going. I have to say they both did pretty well in pass pro and mostly on in the run game. This was against the 99ers number one defence, so given that it seems to bode well for the upcoming season. Didn't watch the interior guys, but there didn't seem to be much pressure up the middle. However, on run plays up the middle there didn't seem to be much of a lame for the RB. But then we have marginal RBs Soooooo.
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I was at the game watching the OTs . I saw on one play , Henderson block a guy , then hit another , then block the original guy . The thing these OTs have that past Texan OL didn't have is length . I saw Davenport next to JJ and Davenport is one big dude with 36" arms .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I was at the game watching the OTs . I saw on one play , Henderson block a guy , then hit another , then block the original guy . The thing these OTs have that past Texan OL didn't have is length . I saw Davenport next to JJ and Davenport is one big dude with 36" arms .
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Also Jared Jones-Smith from U. of Pittsburgh 6'7" 317 arms 36 1/4" hands 10 1/14 inches and he had a broad jump over 9 feet with a 27 " vertical. He's about two years from knee injury and hopefully will be our right tackle of the future. Fellow Panther Jester Weah is a stretch to make team as WR.
 
edo783 said:
Agreed. I am struggling with determining whether it is the RBs fault or the olines. I suspect it's both at various times.
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We are still used to having Foster at RB. IMO he had the best “vision” of any RB of his era. His ability to find the hole where there seemingly was nowhere to go was unmatched. He made the most out of an OL that was better than the one the current RBs with league average to below average vision have now.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I'm comfortable with the pass protection, but we have to find a running game.
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yea run blocking takes a little longer to come together generally, so while our rum blocking hasnt been good so far I think it will improve. Honestly Martin is looking like the weak link on our line, he needs to show up
 
Shishkabob said:
yea run blocking takes a little longer to come together generally, so while our rum blocking hasnt been good so far I think it will improve. Honestly Martin is looking like the weak link on our line, he needs to show up
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That’ll happen when a player has back to back offseason ankle surgeries. I’m afraid we are no longer going to be getting the player we thought we were getting when drafted. Hope he’ll improve as the season goes on and maybe CND @CloakNNNdagger can weigh in on his long term prospects.
 
I'm excited about Rankin moving from PUP to active roster. I think he's ahead of schedule, physically speaking at least ?
OK so I realize he's not yet in "football-shape" and also way behind in the mental part of the game and got a lot to catch up on to be a truly effective OT.
It may be well into the season before he's ready to be potentially a legit starter but he's out there with the team practicing.
 
TheRealJoker said:
That’ll happen when a player has back to back offseason ankle surgeries. I’m afraid we are no longer going to be getting the player we thought we were getting when drafted. Hope he’ll improve as the season goes on and maybe CND @CloakNNNdagger can weigh in on his long term prospects.
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From March 2018:
CloakNNNdagger said:
And after back-to-back high ankle sprain fractures, I wouldn't be betting the farm on him being able to hold down the fort at center
.
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My opinion hasn't changed.
 
Fulton, Kelemete, Henderson and Rankin would be the 4 new linemen the Texans have this year.
3 free agents and a draft pick. I'd say yes, the Texans did address the offensive line and it is much better then last year at this time.
So far, the line has 4 new starters in LT Davenport, LG Kelemete, RG Fulton and RT Henderson. The Center will be Martin, the only starting lineman from last year if you don't count Davenport's 3 starts at the end of last year.
So far this group has been solid. They have not given up a sack and the Quarterback hurries and hits have been cut in half. The quarterbacks so far have been kept upright and clean. The Texans offensive line is the only line in the NFL that hasn't given up a sack so far this preseason. The line needs to clean things up in the running game and open up running lanes better, and they will. It's a matter of getting communications down and getting pulls and stunts in unison. That comes with practice and being together longer. No, they're not at mid-season form, but should they be? Most of the line is new. It will take time.
Also keep in mind that the play calling thus far has been very vanilla. O'Brien is calling just basic plays. None of the off schedule or misdirection plays have been called as of yet. Those calls will come in week 1.
The final note is that neither Hopkins or Fuller have seen even a single down of playing time. When those 2 are on the field, defenses will be forced to take players out of the box to account for them. That, in itself, will open running lanes by spreading defenses out.
Just be patient. It will come together.
This offensive line is already light years ahead of last years terrible bunch and will get better with playing time together.
 
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JamTex said:
Fulton, Kelemete, Henderson and Rankin would be the 4 new linemen the Texans have this year.
3 free agents and a draft pick. I'd say yes, the Texans did address the offensive line and it is much better then last year at this time.
So far, the line has 4 new starters in LT Davenport, LG Kelemete, RG Fulton and RT Henderson. The Center will be Martin, the only starting lineman from last year if you don't count Davenport's 3 starts at the end of last year.
So far this group has been solid. They have not given up a sack and the Quarterback hurries and hits have been cut in half. The quarterbacks so far have been kept upright and clean. The Texans offensive line is the only line in the NFL that hasn't given up a sack so far this preseason. The line needs to clean things up in the running game and open up running lanes better, and they will. It's a matter of getting communications down and getting pulls and stunts in unison. That comes with practice and being together longer. No, they're not at mid-season form, but should they be? Most of the line is new. It will take time.
Also keep in mind that the play calling thus far has been very vanilla. O'Brien is calling just basic plays. None of the off schedule or misdirection plays have been called as of yet. Those calls will come in week 1.
The final note is that neither Hopkins or Fuller have seen even a single down of playing time. When those 2 are on the field, defenses will be forced to take players out of the box to account for them. That, in itself, will open running lanes by spreading defenses out.
Just be patient. It will come together.
This offensive line is already light years ahead of last years terrible bunch and will get better with playing time together.
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Yes sir, well said. I think that's an accurate summary of where we are with the OLine at this early stage of the 2018 campaign, still in preseason of course,
but all things considered I like where we are at with the OLine going into what is effectively the last preseason game for the starters.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Jam I wouldn't say light years ahead right now. Like you said Obrien is running vanilla plays but guess what, so have the two teams we've played so far. Those DC didn't throw their true blitz packages at us. Once we've seen at least 8 regular season games, we should have a better knowledge of what type of offensive line we have.
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I would say light years. They are by far better then last year. Are they perfect? No. But just getting to middle of the pack or average is a long way from what we saw last year. As far as blitzes and defensive stunts? Watson's legs and misdirection plays will help with that. Along with getting rid of the turnstiles of Allen and the so called "tough player" who is now with the Raiders and was so bad that I hate to even mention his name.
Those guys are gone and were replaced with obvious upgrades. So light years ahead of last year? Yes. Definitely.
 
JamTex said:
I would say light years. They are by far better then last year. Are they perfect? No. But just getting to middle of the pack or average is a long way from what we saw last year. As far as blitzes and defensive stunts? Watson's legs and misdirection plays will help with that. Along with getting rid of the turnstiles of Allen and the so called "tough player" who is now with the Raiders and was so bad that I hate to even mention his name.
Those guys are gone and were replaced with obvious upgrades. So light years ahead of last year? Yes. Definitely.
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OL has probably improved to the top 20/25.

An improvement over the putrid crap Ricky gave us last yr but still below avg. IMHO

Hopefully they can keep Watson healthy.
 
austins23 said:
Dang, I forgot about him. Man, that Oline last year was really bad!
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Yes they were. And now that those 3 turnstiles are gone, maybe this year will be allot better. That's why I say this year's o-line is light years ahead of last year.
 
JamTex said:
Yes they were. And now that those 3 turnstiles are gone, maybe this year will be allot better. That's why I say this year's o-line is light years ahead of last year.
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X was so frustrating to me. mainly because it seemed like there was a couple times a game where he would fire off and have an amazing block driving his guy back into the LBers lap. but then the other 99% of the time he was just sluggish and almost looked lazy while blocking. It seemed to me like he had the talent and capability to do the job well, he just didnt care to
 
I remember my wife asking me who the man in charge of choosing players is so she can send in my resume, lol. She absolutely hated Suafilo, which is bad because she does not really know football, yet knew he was complete garbage.
 
FO’s Tom Gower is back to answer the second of our five biggest questions about this Houston squad for 2018.



What are your thoughts on the Texans’ new-look offensive line this year? Most expect this to be a bottom five OL, but is it possible that they can shock the world and at least be average?


One broader point here: sacks are more a quarterback and scheme stat than an offensive line stat. My favorite natural example of that is Denver a few years ago, who went from low sack rate (Kyle Orton) to very high sack rate (Tim Tebow) back to pretty low sack rate (Peyton Manning) without that many changes in the line. Watson was sacked at a high rate last year, as were the other guys. Past Houston quarterbacks have also been pressured at high rates. Sure, those may have been slappies, but a couple years of the same thing happening suggests that regardless of whether the line is 16th or 32nd, Watson will probably be sacked and pressured at fairly high rates this year.


Looking specifically at the line, I’m not a real technical evaluator of offensive line play, so I tend to look at skill proxies like investment and demonstrated past performance. Looking at that, it’s hard to be too optimistic about Houston’s 2018 line. Davenport and Rankins were mid-round picks, Kelemete and Henderson were lower-tier free agents, Fulton got average starter money rather than Andrew Norwell money. If they come together quickly and all play up to their potential, sure, average could happen, but that feels like the top end of the range of outcomes.
2018 Houston Texans Preview: Football Outsiders On Houston’s Offensive Line.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...football-outsiders-on-houstons-offensive-line
 
So analysts and football men alike are hoping for average at best? LOL talk about a dose of reality.
 
TheKDog said:
FO’s Tom Gower is back to answer the second of our five biggest questions about this Houston squad for 2018.



What are your thoughts on the Texans’ new-look offensive line this year? Most expect this to be a bottom five OL, but is it possible that they can shock the world and at least be average?


One broader point here: sacks are more a quarterback and scheme stat than an offensive line stat. My favorite natural example of that is Denver a few years ago, who went from low sack rate (Kyle Orton) to very high sack rate (Tim Tebow) back to pretty low sack rate (Peyton Manning) without that many changes in the line. Watson was sacked at a high rate last year, as were the other guys. Past Houston quarterbacks have also been pressured at high rates. Sure, those may have been slappies, but a couple years of the same thing happening suggests that regardless of whether the line is 16th or 32nd, Watson will probably be sacked and pressured at fairly high rates this year.


Looking specifically at the line, I’m not a real technical evaluator of offensive line play, so I tend to look at skill proxies like investment and demonstrated past performance. Looking at that, it’s hard to be too optimistic about Houston’s 2018 line. Davenport and Rankins were mid-round picks, Kelemete and Henderson were lower-tier free agents, Fulton got average starter money rather than Andrew Norwell money. If they come together quickly and all play up to their potential, sure, average could happen, but that feels like the top end of the range of outcomes.
2018 Houston Texans Preview: Football Outsiders On Houston’s Offensive Line.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...football-outsiders-on-houstons-offensive-line
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Seems kind of weak to base your analysis on where guys were drafted and pay rather than evaluating their play. BOP had a good post on where Dallas' 90's Olineman were drafted and using this guy's method they should have sucked. All that said, I do agree that average is probably the ceiling for our OL which I'd be thrilled with for this season.
 
Uncle Rico said:
So analysts and football men alike are hoping for average at best? LOL talk about a dose of reality.
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How is there anything wrong with that.. We just fielded the worst offensive line in the entire league and overhauled it with low key FA signings and a 4th round starting LT after a draft where we didn't even have a 1st or 2nd round picks. So setting base line expectations at average is not some lowered expectations or something. Those are high expectations and it would be a great improvement in that department..and here's the thing, they could actaully do it.
 
Shishkabob said:
Darn we should have paid these guys more, and drafted them earlier. that's how you get players to play better....
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If you're talking about my post then you totally missed my point.

BTW, average play IS PLAYING BETTER!

WTF is wrong with average at this stage in the rebuild of our line? Can somebody please tell me that? I will grin from ear to ear and do backflips if we can pull off average performance in year 1 with this line.

People act like average is some dirty word/loser's mentality here...IT'S NOT. Average means that we jumped 16 teams, found our long term answer at LT, and actually have a offensive line that we can work with and build on going forward.
 
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Carr Bombed said:
If you're talking about my post then you totally missed my point.

BTW, average play IS PLAYING BETTER!

WTF is wrong with average at this stage in the rebuild of our line? Can somebody please tell me that? I will grin from ear to ear and do backflips if we can pull off average performance in year 1 with this line.

People act like average is some dirty word/loser's mentality here...IT'S NOT. Average means that we jumped 16 teams, found our long term answer at LT, and actually have a offensive line that we can work with and build on going forward.
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my post had nothing to do with yours lol. I am content with average this year, to expect our line to go from what it was last year to anything above average is pretty delusional

my post was a response to the guy in the articles evaluation. He admits he isnt good at scouting oline, but seeing where players were drafted and how they got paid they must suck. i found it laughable
 
Carr Bombed said:
How is there anything wrong with that.. We just fielded the worst offensive line in the entire league and overhauled it with low key FA signings and a 4th round starting LT after a draft where we didn't even have a 1st or 2nd round picks. So setting base line expectations at average is not some lowered expectations or something. Those are high expectations and it would be a great improvement in that department..and here's the thing, they could actaully do it.
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bless your heart. still Texan Fan#1. I remember those days. Pssss ... I sometimes fall victim to the blinders too. Sadly this line sucks. If mediocrity is the best we can expect from this unit then its just par for the course with this franchise.
 
Uncle Rico said:
bless your heart. still Texan Fan#1. I remember those days. Pssss ... I sometimes fall victim to the blinders too. Sadly this line sucks. If mediocrity is the best we can expect from this unit then its just par for the course with this franchise.
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**** off.

"You remember those days"..What the **** are you even talking about? I've been here a lot longer than you have and "average" is not mediocre dumbass.. Do you know who was average last season? Philadelphia finished 17th is the league last season in sacks allowed (a hair below average). Do you think their fans were crapping their pants or crying about being it like you are? No, they won a damn Superbowl with a average line.

You are completely irrational and are the one being unrealistic if you have a standard that this team should jump all the way near the top of the league, given the limited resources and where they were last season. Even if we signed Solder (who's vastly overrated and now represents one of the worst contracts in NFL history) I wouldn't expect anything above average this year.
 
Carr Bombed said:
**** off.

"You remember those days"..What the **** are you even talking about? I've been here a lot longer than you have and "average" is not mediocre dumbass.. Do you know who was average last season? Philadelphia finished 17th is the league last season in sacks allowed (a hair below average). Do you think their fans were crapping their pants or crying about being it like you are? No, they won a damn Superbowl with a average line.

You are completely irrational and are the one being unrealistic if you have a standard that this team should jump all the way near the top of the league, given the limited resources and where they were last season. Even if we signed Solder (who's vastly overrated and now represents one of the worst contracts in NFL history) I wouldn't expect anything above average this year.
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Okay Texan Fan#1/ Internet tough guy ... hurr hurr "i been around alot longer than you" what does that even have to do with individual perceptions of the team and the line in specific? You sound like an aggravated woman with your stance. Average is not mediocre? LMAO ummm you may want to rethink that one. How bout you go warm up some chicken tendies with yummy honey mussey sauce and chill out for a minute. Rock back and forth in your chair, get your blanky whatever makes you feel good inside because you're just blabbing incoherently. Where did I mention Solder? Good God man, I wanted no piece of that guy give me a break. You're just flying off the handle for no good reason, if you dont like my outlook, then block me. Simple. Youre not the first and wont be the last, go back to enjoying life again, there is much more to happiness than being right on an internet sports chat board. Have a good one Rocky.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Okay Texan Fan#1/ Internet tough guy ... hurr hurr "i been around alot longer than you" what does that even have to do with individual perceptions of the team and the line in specific? You sound like an aggravated woman with your stance. Average is not mediocre? LMAO ummm you may want to rethink that one. How bout you go warm up some chicken tendies with yummy honey mussey sauce and chill out for a minute. Rock back and forth in your chair, get your blanky whatever makes you feel good inside because you're just blabbing incoherently. Where did I mention Solder? Good God man, I wanted no piece of that guy give me a break. You're just flying off the handle for no good reason, if you dont like my outlook, then block me. Simple. Youre not the first and wont be the last, go back to enjoying life again, there is much more to happiness than being right on an internet sports chat board. Have a good one Rocky.
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Again more bushit that does absolutely nothing towards addressing my post other than weak ass insults.
 
Do you know what irrational fans do.. they ***** about the team not signing one of their favorite players to a mega contract, despite that said player has serious health issues and it would be completely asinine for the team to do so..

Bless their hearts. I too remember when I thought about individual players instead of the team or what's best for the team as a whole.
 
Carr Bombed said:
So where do you think this line should be then?

Also please explain to us how someone thinking the offensive line should be average makes them some fanatical homer.
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Are you autistic? It seems like YOU (not we, us or our) are having a hard time following along. I'll layman it for you. okay see some fans here actually think we have a good line. Heck maybe even Davenport exceeds all expectations and is a good player! Yay! So maybe just maybe we wont suck so bad blocking.

In comes the football men (guys who have played,consulted or analyzed the game at the highest levels) and they are like "eeek that line looks bad man, Deshaun is gonna be ducking and diving" and so I said "hey check it out a guy who has actually earned money for talking about football is saying dont get your hopes up. Thats when I posted, and 5 minutes later you Sperg'd out and felt like my post had ruffled your tender sensibilites. Did I get the whole chain of events right?

You keep throwing deflecting and alternative facts our there as if I started any of those arguments. Its crazy. "arrrrrrghhhh 17th rated line, Philly, arrgghhhh Solder" Go pop your meds and we will pick up when you can actually follow along.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Are you autistic? It seems like YOU (not we, us or our) are having a hard time following along. I'll layman it for you. okay see some fans here actually think we have a good line. Heck maybe even Davenport exceeds all expectations and is a good player! Yay! So maybe just maybe we wont suck so bad blocking.

In comes the football men (guys who have played,consulted or analyzed the game at the highest levels) and they are like "eeek that line looks bad man, Deshaun is gonna be ducking and diving" and so I said "hey check it out a guy who has actually earned money for talking about football is saying dont get your hopes up. Thats when I posted, and 5 minutes later you Sperg'd out and felt like my post had ruffled your tender sensibilites. Did I get the whole chain of events right?

You keep throwing deflecting and alternative facts our there as if I started any of those arguments. Its crazy. "arrrrrrghhhh 17th rated line, Philly, arrgghhhh Solder" Go pop your meds and we will pick up when you can actually follow along.
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Ok first of all, I'm not autistic, but I have a cousin who is and they tend to be highly intelligent people..

2nd, I really don't care what some talking head gets paid and that has absolutely nothing to do with how I value their opinions, or how I form my own especially when they don't even follow this team. Seriously it has absolutely zero effect on whether I value their opinions or not, because I've read years worth of shitty opinions from PLENTY of people who were paid to offer them and usually the first thought I have is "How do I get that job"?

Last, as far as you saying.. "I posted, and 5 minutes later you Sperg'd out and felt like my post had ruffled your tender sensibilites. Did I get the whole chain of events right?"

Here was my exact post..

Carr Bombed said:
How is there anything wrong with that.. We just fielded the worst offensive line in the entire league and overhauled it with low key FA signings and a 4th round starting LT after a draft where we didn't even have a 1st or 2nd round picks. So setting base line expectations at average is not some lowered expectations or something. Those are high expectations and it would be a great improvement in that department..and here's the thing, they could actaully do it.
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Now please show me where I "Sperg'd out and felt like your post had ruffled my sensibilites"?

There was nothing wrong with my post other than you, being too damn sensitive and feeling like it was some sort of a attack on you..thus responding in with your condescending sophomoric "bless your heart, still Texans #1 fan" crap.

So no, you actaully got the whole chain of events wrong here, which has led us down this turd pipe. So I'm not the one deflecting or the one who needs to pop meds to follow along here. You can't even read a simple post without feeling like it was a personal attack on you or thinking that someone "sperg'd" out when they clearly didn't.

If I'm guilty of anything in this thread, it's taking your bait and following you down into the same crap tank.
 
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Shishkabob said:
so far through 2 preseason games we haven't given up a sack, last year our line gave up 10 so already improved lol
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Relax buddy let's just hope for average or mediocre or ordinary or lackluster .. well you kind of get the gist. I'm pleasantly surprised so far, but the nights are long and full of terror soon as the regular season kicks off.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Relax buddy let's just hope for average or mediocre or ordinary or lackluster .. well you kind of get the gist. I'm pleasantly surprised so far, but the nights are long and full of terror soon as the regular season kicks off.
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I'm not getting overly excited, but I'm not going to be overly negative until I see them truly play either. going from dead last ti average or mediocre in 1 off season without your top 2 picks would be a blessing. it could happen sure, it might not. Kelemente and Fulton both graded higher in pass and run blocking then the guys they are replacing. Martin hopefully can stay healthy, and receive a boost playing along side better waters. I honestly dont think highly of Henderson, but he hasnt looked bad so far, and honestly I cant see him being worse than giacomini. Davenport is young and I expect him to play as such, but he is way more talented then Lamm is so hopefully he will be an upgrade.

It's been one offseason under new management, we invested a good bit to rehaul our oline, there is still work to be done for sure but I dont think it's crazy by any stretch for fans to be happy to see a their team invest in a weak spot and see it pay dividends even if it is early
 
Evaluations from non team sources have said Davenport and Henderson have looked good. Fulton doing well. Things don't have to be much better to solidify our hope. Rankin was 3rd rounder but many said he should start soon at LT and sooner at RT. Kelemite will should improve himself and those around him as season progresses. Let's not be too critical of these guys too soon.
 
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