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Alfred Blue- Resigned

badboy said:
Despite the quibbling, my hope (as I think Texans coaching and many fans is) that our defense turn around last seasons stats giving up 30 passing TDs..bringing in Colvin and Mathieu hopefully will do that. Johnson and Jackson need to have better seasons; Jackson had reasonable stats but didn't play that well. We know what hope there is for defensive side of ball. Stats using Jackson for example doesn't tell all the story (all of us know that) but some are revealing and that is where my optimism comes in. Also although nothing guarantees, most think a healthy Watson, healthy Will Fuller, healthy Foreman(mentioning him only as more time needed to see if he will play) and a better if not "really good" O'line individually and as a group improves that side of ball. O'Brien is now armed with knowledge of what #4 can do and there will be no Savage to compete for snaps. It will be 100 percent 4.

Watson avg 8.3 per completion & he is a passing QB. 7 games 1700 yards and if above happens (health) 3400 yards is reasonable and maintaining approx 8 yards per pass is moving the ball. 19 TDs in less than seven games could be 40+ with healthy Fuller. Stats do not tell everything but some are significant. Yes, we can drone on an on about injuries and yes they can happen again. Yes the new guys are not superstars but they may not have to be..just better and there is solid evidence that LT, LG and right tackle will be much better. To me RG is an unknown and where I will focus.

More concerning to me to me is the running game. Lamar Miller's avg per carry has dropped significantly each of his 4 season in NFL and that isn't all on coaching. First two seasons on Dolphins he only had 8 TDs each year but only had 8 TDs for Houston 2016 and 2017 combined. It is a fair question "has O'Brien figured how to use Miller?" We thought Foreman and perhaps Blue would allow fewer snaps for Miller keeping him fresher as game progressed. His rushing attempts dropped from 268 to 230 (15 avg per game) but his rushing avg dropped as did his TDs 5 to 3; so theory of less being more didn't happen. Note* his receiving was where he "shined" going from 31 receptions to 36 his yardage went from 188 to 327 (6.1 to 9.1) and 1 TD to 3. So how will Texans use this important spot and player 2018? I want Miller to keep his avg per catch but getting more targets this is a must IMO as I don't see his rushing improving. His cap of $6.75 m is just way too high for what he brings. A healthy Foreman moves Miller down in pecking order if not off team. Swanson is intriguing & while second level Toledo doesn't bring confidence in stats a RB is often the position most easily transferred. If he gets fair chance in TC he could not only earn a roster spot but move up the ladder.
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I think a lot of our problem rushing the ball is because the o-line has been losing the battle in the trenches. If the o-line improves this year, so does the run game. Miller is the kind of back that has to have space to operate. Give him that and he can hurt the other team. He is not the kind of back that can make his own space.
 
Texas Jake said:
I think a lot of our problem rushing the ball is because the o-line has been losing the battle in the trenches. If the o-line improves this year, so does the run game. Miller is the kind of back that has to have space to operate. Give him that and he can hurt the other team. He is not the kind of back that can make his own space.
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Then OB needs to quit sending Miller up the gut. You're not going to huge holes the majority of the time.
 
DocBar said:
Then OB needs to quit sending Miller up the gut. You're not going to huge holes the majority of the time.
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The running between the T's and G's is what Foreman was drafted to do and Blue was re-signed to help in doing. Miller and Ervin were supposed to use their speed to get outside the T's and create mismatches out of the backfield in the passing game.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The running between the T's and G's is what Foreman was drafted to do and Blue was re-signed to help in doing. Miller and Ervin were supposed to use their speed to get outside the T's and create mismatches out of the backfield in the passing game.
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That's great in theory, but I saw Miller up the gut umpteen times a game last year.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The running between the T's and G's is what Foreman was drafted to do and Blue was re-signed to help in doing. Miller and Ervin were supposed to use their speed to get outside the T's and create mismatches out of the backfield in the passing game.
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Unfortunately the OT'S were so bad last year that running outside was next to impossible.
 
DocBar said:
That's great in theory, but I saw Miller up the gut umpteen times a game last year.
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Exactly! This why most of us questioned O'Brien's running game strategy. He was running Miller like he had top five NFL OL....instead, he would up with a very expensive third down back trying to run behind one of the bottom five NFL OL's while posing as a between the T's powerback.
 
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JB said:
yeah, because pink elephants always sh!t in the clouds

edit: Actually that whole one-sided conversation should be in the drumk thread
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It really should, because I can't think of how anyone could think we didn't have an awful Oline last season unless they were intoxicated out of their mind every game.
 
Alf very funny as knew about the show but looked dumb and stupid. But seriously glad Miller seems to be the go to up the gap type of RB.
 
Texecutioner said:
It really should, because I can't think of how anyone could think we didn't have an awful Oline last season unless they were intoxicated out of their mind every game.
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I said they played ok when Watson was the starter. Big ass freaking difference.

But hey yall are 100% right. Watson never had a clean pocket to operate in. On every possession he was running for his life.

And Optimistic as much as I've posted on here , you should know the answer to your question.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
I said they played ok when Watson was at the starter. Big ass freaking difference.

But hey yall are 100% right. Watson never had a clean pocket to operate in. On every possession he was running for his life.

And Optimistic as much as I've posted on here , you should know the answer to your question.
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Nobody's saying Watson never had a clean pocket. Even the worst aren't going to get beat every time just like the best won't win every snap. But overall, the OL was pathetic. Saying they were OK because they had a good series of snaps mixed in on occasion, well, big freaking difference there too.
 
Speedy said:
Nobody's saying Watson never had a clean pocket. Even the worst aren't going to get beat every time just like the best won't win every snap. But overall, the OL was pathetic. Saying they were OK because they had a good series of snaps mixed in on occasion, well, big freaking difference there too.
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They sure act like it. He wasn't throttled like some are saying either. My thing is you don't average 40 points a game (4 straight games) 31-33 in six starts and don't have some decent oline play. And I'm not going off any freaking stats alone. I've watched every single game.

Again yes they were overall terrible. But not when Watson was out there is my main point.
 
Texansballer74 said:
They sure act like it. He wasn't throttled like some are saying either. My thing is you don't average 40 points a game (4 straight games) 31-33 in six starts and don't have some decent oline play. And I'm not going off any freaking stats alone. I've watched every single game.

Again yes they were overall terrible. But not when Watson was out there is my main point.
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Overall terrible is what all others are stating. Watson was able to overcome that in a limited time, but that doesn't change the fact that they were overall terrible even when he was out there and certainly cannot be considered a good thing going forward
 
Texansballer74 said:
Again yes they were overall terrible. But not when Watson was out there is my main point.
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So basically you've wasted your time debating this point this entire time based on this statement. They didn't get any better because Watson was out there. His athletic abilities allowed him to move around and buy extra time for his receivers to get open and for him to make the plays despite having one of the worst Olines in the entire league. No one ever stated that it was impossible to still score high points with bad Oline.
 
The reason why the Oline wasn't completely terrible with Watson in and the line had stretches of success is because Watson proved he could beat the defense if they rushed up field...after that they had to be disciplined with their gap integrity or Watson was going to abuse them with his legs. Watson changed the way defenses played.

When Watson went out and the defense knew our QBs didn't pose that threat and our line actaully had to block for a guy who couldn't escape at all...they feasted and the crappy line showed their true colors. The line sucked last season..their moments of success had everything to do with how great our rookie was last season and how he effected opposing defenses...that's where the credit lies..not the offensive line.

I'm a fan and know our success lies on the back of this revamped line so I hope for the absolute best..especially surprisingly success at LT. I feel if we solve that riddle everyone else will fall in line.
 
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Carr Bombed said:
The reason why the Oline wasn't completely terrible with Watson in and the line had stretches of success is because Watson proved he could beat the defense if they rushed up field...after that they had to be disciplined with their gap integrity or Watson was going to abuse them with his legs. Watson changed the way defenses played.

When Watson went out and the defense knew our QBs didn't pose that threat and our line actaully had to block for a guy who couldn't escape at all...they feasted and the crappy line showed their true colors. The line sucked last season..their moments of success had everything to do with how great our rookie was last season and how he effected opposing defenses...that's where the credit lies..not the offensive line.

I'm a fan and know our success lies on the back of this revamped line so I hope for the absolute best..especially surprisingly success at LT. I feel if we solve that riddle everyone else will fall in line.
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I stated that days ago in my post. Not as elaborate as you did but that was my main point. Rodgers, Brady, Cam, and Wilson have that same gift of getting respect from every defense they come up against. I said Brady because of his his high football IQ and his quick trigger delivery.

So many posters get hung up their own personal agendas around here instead being open minded.
I've admitted several times during the season and even now that our offensive line was atrocious.
 
Texecutioner said:
So basically you've wasted your time debating this point this entire time based on this statement. They didn't get any better because Watson was out there. His athletic abilities allowed him to move around and buy extra time for his receivers to get open and for him to make the plays despite having one of the worst Olines in the entire league. No one ever stated that it was impossible to still score high points with bad Oline.
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They held onto their blocks. Watson was able to go through his progression

And no I didn't't waste my time. I come on here to talk football with fellow Texans fans.
 
JB said:
Overall terrible is what all others are stating. Watson was able to overcome that in a limited time, but that doesn't change the fact that they were overall terrible even when he was out there and certainly cannot be considered a good thing going forward
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Man I have agreed with that stance. But again with Watson they played much better than with Savage or Yates. Good to great QB can bring out the best in everyone. And that line blocked for their leader. Go look at the highlights I posted JB.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Here's another game in which we had solid pass protection from the offensive line. Yes he was sack twice and pressured two more times, one resulting in a INT. But overall, great job by the offensive line.




Did you even look at those two highlights I posted. If you did you would've seen what I am talking about. I'm not going off freaking stats alone.

And please don't paint that foolish picture like that. I'm giving my opinion just everyone else.
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Is this addressed to me? I think I was the only direct remark between your video posts. Yes I watched the videos, and my stance is unchanged, and you just echo'd my opinion. You do however lose points by posting a video of a game in which Duane Brown was playing.
 
Scooter said:
Is this addressed to me? I think I was the only direct remark between your video posts. Yes I watched the videos, and my stance is unchanged, and you just echo'd my opinion. You do however lose points by posting a video of a game in which Duane Brown was playing.
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How so?? Lol

And I posted two videos, the first one Watson didn't even get touched by the Titans defense. Brown didn't play in this game..
 
Texansballer74 said:
They sure act like it. He wasn't throttled like some are saying either. My thing is you don't average 40 points a game (4 straight games) 31-33 in six starts and don't have some decent oline play. And I'm not going off any freaking stats alone. I've watched every single game.

Again yes they were overall terrible. But not when Watson was out there is my main point.
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I'm following what you are saying but 7 does not equal 16. As the 2017 season would've progressed, defensive schemes would've changed and exploited the easiest thing to exploit on the field of play....the Texans OL. My fear coming into 2018, the Texans and Watson aren't going to see the same type of defenses. The biggest two questions:

1. Can the OL be good enough to keep Watson protected?

2. Can O'Brien game plan and adjust on the fly well enough to counter what defenses will be doing this season?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm following what you are saying but 7 does not equal 16. As the 2017 season would've progressed, defensive schemes would've changed and exploited the easiest thing to exploit on the field of play....the Texans OL. My fear coming into 2018, the Texans and Watson aren't going to see the same type of defenses. The biggest two questions:

1. Can the OL be good enough to keep Watson protected?

2. Can O'Brien game plan and adjust on the fly well enough to counter what defenses will be doing this season?
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I share those same concerns as well. And you're right 6 games is merely a small sample size. But with Watson quick trigger and quick decisions making, I believe the youngster still would've thrived behind that line. I also believe that line has that youngster's back. Good leaders tend to bring out the best in other players sometimes. Look at the production from Fuller and even Miller catching out the backfield. Them boys enjoyed playing with Watson.

1. Watson is going to get hit and get hit often. The defense will win some of the battles in the trenches. Even Dak and Romo got touched up quite often behind what everybody doomed the best line in the business. The question should be can Watson body sustain those hits throughout the season. Drew Breeze and Aaron Rodgers held up pretty good throughout their great careers.

2. Bill O'Brien was a totally different coach when Watson was at the helm. He was like a fat kid in a all you can eat candy store. For the first time he actually had defenses on their heels. It's in crunch time that worries me Optimistic. He has to let his playmakers go in those type of situations.

Now hopefully the line is that power run type Bill O'Brien so badly desire. Then he can lol run Miller up the gut.

Thank you for being open minded.
 
JB said:
You've been arguing with that stance this entire thread
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I've argued about the time Watson played and that is it. Big ash difference. Yall stuck on this overall stuff. I'm solely talking about the way they performed when Watson was out there.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I've argued about the time Watson played and that is it. Big ash difference. Yall stuck on this overall stuff. I'm solely talking about the way they performed when Watson was out there.
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Don't you understand that Watson made them look better because of his abilities? Upthread it was posted that he was under pressure almost 50% of his dropback... even more than Savage. What people are saying that you don't get is that Watson would not have made a full season behind that horrendous line.

And you have just recently changed your stance. Earlier you were saying the Ol was fine and Savage made it look bad.

6 starts does not a season make. The OL sucked last year, bottom line
 
JB said:
Don't you understand that Watson made them look better because of his abilities? Upthread it was posted that he was under pressure almost 50% of his dropback... even more than Savage. What people are saying that you don't get is that Watson would not have made a full season behind that horrendous line.

And you have just recently changed your stance. Earlier you were saying the Ol was fine and Savage made it look bad.

6 starts does not a season make. The OL sucked last year, bottom line
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Savage play did hurt the offensive line as well. But hey you won. Moving right along
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm following what you are saying but 7 does not equal 16. As the 2017 season would've progressed, defensive schemes would've changed and exploited the easiest thing to exploit on the field of play....the Texans OL. My fear coming into 2018, the Texans and Watson aren't going to see the same type of defenses. The biggest two questions:

1. Can the OL be good enough to keep Watson protected?

2. Can O'Brien game plan and adjust on the fly well enough to counter what defenses will be doing this season?
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You left out:
Can Watson himself adjust well enough to the adjustments that defenses will undoubtedly make to him in the upcoming season?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You left out:
Can Watson himself adjust well enough to the adjustments that defenses will undoubtedly make to him in the upcoming season?
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confirmation from a veteran qb

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-has-some-words-of-wisdom-for-deshaun-watson/

“As he’ll find out, the second year is maybe the toughest year for a quarterback because you have an entire offseason for teams — especially teams in your division — to study you,” Rodgers said. “It makes things a little harder. I played pretty decent my first year and came back in ’09 and was seeing some different looks because there’s a lot more film on you.”
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Isn't the second NFL year considered where all players make largest progress? We can "what if" this to death. I prefer to be optimistic until actual play causes me to change.
 
infantrycak said:
May have been Rodgers' toughest but it was in every stat better than his 1st.



I think it is conventionally stated, 'the 2nd off-season is where most players make their biggest jump.'
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Thanks to clarify..second off season will be after first season?
 
badboy said:
Thanks to clarify..second off season will be after first season?
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Yes.

I have heard some to add a starting or significant playing time requirement. So using Rodgers from the quote he was talking about his 4th & 5th seasons as his 1st & 2nd.
 
err, now that resigning of Alfred Blue, maybe get on topic and take this elsewhere. We need new topics so OTA's please help us, oline is being debated everywhere and I came here to read something different..
 
badboy said:
Isn't the second NFL year considered where all players make largest progress? We can "what if" this to death. I prefer to be optimistic until actual play causes me to change.
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I think the second year is where a strong coaching staff makes the difference for those players. A player like Watson can make in-play adjustments but the biggest chess moves will come with the gameplan and in-game adjustments made on the fly by the OC and HC who are responsible for seeing what a second year pro doesn't always see from an offensive standpoint.
 
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Rich Schmidt said:
err, now that resigning of Alfred Blue, maybe get on topic and take this elsewhere. We need new topics so OTA's please help us, oline is being debated everywhere and I came here to read something different..
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Great! What's your thought/opinion on anything Texans related? We do need more to talk about..looking forward to your post.
 
badboy said:
Isn't the second NFL year considered where all players make largest progress? We can "what if" this to death. I prefer to be optimistic until actual play causes me to change.
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No it isn't. Guess you never heard of the Sophomore slump. A lot of QB's have came in the last 5 years and had really good rookie seasons and then struggled the next season once the rest of the league had film on them and made them adjust. Dak, Cam Newton, and RG3 for example all had struggles their 2nd year compared to the success of their rookie seasons. Those are just recent. It isn't a guarantee, but the QB position has been extremely volatile for guys in their first 3 years.
 
Texecutioner said:
No it isn't. Guess you never heard of the Sophomore slump. A lot of QB's have came in the last 5 years and had really good rookie seasons and then struggled the next season once the rest of the league had film on them and made them adjust. Dak, Cam Newton, and RG3 for example all had struggles their 2nd year compared to the success of their rookie seasons. Those are just recent. It isn't a guarantee, but the QB position has been extremely volatile for guys in their first 3 years.
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That has been the trend that I have observed........specifically, the sophomore slump has been written about ad nauseum. (That, and don't minimize the effect of his fresh ACL will have on this season)
 
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Texecutioner said:
No it isn't. Guess you never heard of the Sophomore slump. A lot of QB's have came in the last 5 years and had really good rookie seasons and then struggled the next season once the rest of the league had film on them and made them adjust. Dak, Cam Newton, and RG3 for example all had struggles their 2nd year compared to the success of their rookie seasons. Those are just recent. It isn't a guarantee, but the QB position has been extremely volatile for guys in their first 3 years.
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Well aware of the slump but seems that is mostly in regards to QB although not limited to that position and only one in your example. In regards to all positions, I still think the second year of active play on field is improvement.
 
badboy said:
Well aware of the slump but seems that is mostly in regards to QB although not limited to that position and only one in your example. In regards to all positions, I still think the second year of active play on field is improvement.
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Only one? Explain.
 
My post 134 said "all players" and your example listed only QBs. I acknowledge that other positions could have slumps but still seems getting an year on field behind is overwhelming better for most players.
 
badboy said:
My post 134 said "all players" and your example listed only QBs. I acknowledge that other positions could have slumps but still seems getting an year on field behind is overwhelming better for most players.
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I agree. A player like Davenport, had starting experience year one. He’s now had a full off season for conditioning and training, and is about to go into his second OTA’s and training camp, without being overwhelmed. This year he should be expected to make significant progress over last season. Positions like OT you don’t expect a slump.
 
Number19 said:
I agree. A player like Davenport, had starting experience year one. He’s now had a full off season for conditioning and training, and is about to go into his second OTA’s and training camp, without being overwhelmed. This year he should be expected to make significant progress over last season. Positions like OT you don’t expect a slump.
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I hope you're right and Davenport is the longterm answer at LT.

If he's not up to the task this yr, do you wait for another yr of development, or do you FA/Draft your LT in 2019?
 
steelbtexan said:
I hope you're right and Davenport is the longterm answer at LT.

If he's not up to the task this yr, do you wait for another yr of development, or do you FA/Draft your LT in 2019?
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I’m “hopeful” D is the answer at LT. I’m not stating it as fact. At this point in the pre-season I choose to keep a positive expectation.

As to your question, I hesitate looking to free agency, but of course, if D doesn’t tie down the spot this season, you address it again going into next year. A lot depends on Henderson and Rankin. We need two starting tackles and a quality player for the swing.
 
badboy said:
My post 134 said "all players" and your example listed only QBs. I acknowledge that other positions could have slumps but still seems getting an year on field behind is overwhelming better for most players.
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The response you had initially in your post was referring to a discussion about Watson and the comments from Rodgers discussing his 2nd year starting. That's why I was specific about QB's using recent examples of QB's that struggled after having success early on which is has been happening a lot in the last 5 years with QB's. All NFL positions are different as far as the growing pace of getting better or more acclimated.
 
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