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Texans random thought of the day

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/14/saints-signing-quarterback-tom-savage/

Saints signing quarterback Tom Savage
Posted by Darin Gantt on March 14, 2018, 5:58 PM EDT
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Getty

The starting quarterback market was picked over pretty quickly, and the backups are going quickly as well.

According to a tweet from his agents, former Texans quarterback Tom Savage has agreed to a new deal with New Orleans.
 
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I remember last year in the draft a lot of people wanted Dion Dawkins over Zach Cunningham. At the time it was thought Dawkins could be our starting RT and he started out that way for the Bills until moving over due to injury to Cordy Glenn.

Fast forward 1 year and Glenn has been traded because they are so confident in Dawkin’s ability at LT.

Cunningham is a quality LB and we found a diamond in the rough in Cole. But scarcity of quality OTs vs LBs makes Dawkins the superior pick imo...hindsight being 20/20.

Makes you wonder if the Texans had known how serious Duane Brown was at the time about not wanting to play for the Texans would they have pulled the trigger on Dawkins and we wouldn’t be worried about the LT position this offseason?
 
TheRealJoker said:
I remember last year in the draft a lot of people wanted Dion Dawkins over Zach Cunningham. At the time it was thought Dawkins could be our starting RT and he started out that way for the Bills until moving over due to injury to Cordy Glenn.

Fast forward 1 year and Glenn has been traded because they are so confident in Dawkin’s ability at LT.

Cunningham is a quality LB and we found a diamond in the rough in Cole. But scarcity of quality OTs vs LBs makes Dawkins the superior pick imo...hindsight being 20/20.

Makes you wonder if the Texans had known how serious Duane Brown was at the time about not wanting to play for the Texans would they have pulled the trigger on Dawkins and we wouldn’t be worried about the LT position this offseason?
Click to expand...
Makes me think they believed they could resolve any problems they had with Duane Brown if they passed on Dawkins instead of taking Cunningham even if the Vandy backer
was rated higher unless they didn't think Dawkins had the ability to play LT in the NFL.
 
IDEXAN said:
Makes me think they believed they could resolve any problems they had with Duane Brown if they passed on Dawkins instead of taking Cunningham even if the Vandy backer
was rated higher unless they didn't think Dawkins had the ability to play LT in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Could mean they only saw Dawkins as a RT prospect and did not value the position as worth a 2nd round pick. Our 2 biggest needs heading into last season was QB and RT assuming Brown wasn’t a holdout.
 
People crow about drafting "BPA" and not focusing strictly on need but then cry when we do just that.

I was Dawkins's biggest fan so I would have loved to land him. And I thought he was incrediblely underrated. A first round talent. But it's not like Cunningham is a scrub. They obviously had a high grade on him and targeted him for a specific reason. And it's early to guess but it looks like he'll be a player here for a while.

I have plenty of criticism for Smith but I'm not gonna kill him for drafting a good player just because he didn't take the one I wanted.
 
bah007 said:
People crow about drafting "BPA" and not focusing strictly on need but then cry when we do just that.

I was Dawkins's biggest fan so I would have loved to land him. And I thought he was incrediblely underrated. A first round talent. But it's not like Cunningham is a scrub. They obviously had a high grade on him and targeted him for a specific reason. And it's early to guess but it looks like he'll be a player here for a while.

I have plenty of criticism for Smith but I'm not gonna kill him for drafting a good player just because he didn't take the one I wanted.
Click to expand...

Absolutely and the observation isn’t to somehow bash Cunningham. I think he’s gonna be a heck of a player. Just valuation of positions in terms of draft capital the organization valued LB over OT.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Absolutely and the observation isn’t to somehow bash Cunningham. I think he’s gonna be a heck of a player. Just valuation of positions in terms of draft capital the organization valued LB over OT.
Click to expand...

This assumes that Cunningham was not clearly the higher rated player on the TEXANS board. What we know is that they valued this specific LB over every other player/position combo in the 2nd round of the 2017 draft. It says nothing to whether or not the 2017 Texans staff valued in general Lbers over OLmen, which what you appear to be arguing.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
This assumes that Cunningham was not clearly the higher rated player on the TEXANS board. What we know is that they valued this specific LB over every other player/position combo in the 2nd round of the 2017 draft. It says nothing to whether or not the 2017 Texans staff valued in general Lbers over OLmen, which what you appear to be arguing.
Click to expand...

I suppose in that instance we can see where LBs have been drafted vs OL.

And there we see it is clear that LB was valued higher than OL throughout Smith’s tenure as GM.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I suppose in that instance we can see where LBs have been drafted vs OL.

And there we see it is clear that LB was valued higher than OL throughout Smith’s tenure as GM.
Click to expand...

  • If you want to say OLB who really play the position pass rusher then yes, but generic ILB the Texans have not spent any more than on OL...The record of selecting and retaining the correct OLmen has been terribly poor more than the round and/or free agent money spent.
 
bah007 said:
People crow about drafting "BPA" and not focusing strictly on need but then cry when we do just that.

I was Dawkins's biggest fan so I would have loved to land him. And I thought he was incrediblely underrated. A first round talent. But it's not like Cunningham is a scrub. They obviously had a high grade on him and targeted him for a specific reason. And it's early to guess but it looks like he'll be a player here for a while.

I have plenty of criticism for Smith but I'm not gonna kill him for drafting a good player just because he didn't take the one I wanted.
Click to expand...

I'm not either, but obviously Ricky didn't value the OL like Gaine/you/me do.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not even close, look at teams like the Vikes/Philly/Pitts etc...
Click to expand...


Rick went with the game plan at that time. Again they all saw some improvement from the season before last. They thought X would be more productive. A healthy Allen would perform like he did in Kansas city. D. Brown would play come to camp ready to go. Martin coming back off of injury.

So please stop the madness about dude not put much value on the offensive line.

With this plan we all knew they were going after offensive line like crazy. It has nothing to do with how Gaines value this or that.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Rick went with the game plan at that time. Again they all saw some improvement from the season before last. They thought X would be more productive. A healthy Allen would perform like he did in Kansas city. D. Brown would play come to camp ready to go. Martin coming back off of injury.

So please stop the madness about dude not put much value on the offensive line.

With this plan we all knew they were going after offensive line like crazy. It has nothing to do with how Gaines value this or that.
Click to expand...

funny thing is I told everybody that would listen the OL was going to stink before the season started. Counting on the likes of Allen/XSF/Breno will rightfully get a GM fired. If I knew that Ricky certainly should've known that. Thinking Breno was a serviceable OT? LOL.

Gaine thought so much of Allen's performance that he signed 2 OG's in FA.
 
steelbtexan said:
funny thing is I told everybody that would listen the OL was going to stink before the season started. Counting on the likes of Allen/XSF/Breno will rightfully get a GM fired. If I knew that Ricky certainly should've known that. Thinking Breno was a serviceable OT? LOL.

Gaine thought so much of Allen's performance that he signed 2 OG's in FA.
Click to expand...


He didn't make that call all by himself. The coaching staff was on-board thinking those players were ready.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Rick went with the game plan at that time. Again they all saw some improvement from the season before last. They thought X would be more productive. A healthy Allen would perform like he did in Kansas city. D. Brown would play come to camp ready to go. Martin coming back off of injury.

So please stop the madness about dude not put much value on the offensive line.

With this plan we all knew they were going after offensive line like crazy. It has nothing to do with how Gaines value this or that.
Click to expand...

Su'a-Filo had his best games towards the end of 2016 when he was being bookended by a healthy Brown and a very good Mancz. He regressed horribly without those two. If I could see that over the past 2 seasons....then I expect that a GM who gets paid a tremendous amount of money to recognize these things to identify and correct an issue like this before I can see it.

Allen has been a disappointment since his arrival. How everyone on the staff and to include RS, didn't think to try Allen at his natural position instead of wondering why he wasn't the same player out of position is beyond my comprehension. For me, Allen was a wasted signing but the more I've listened to both sides of the story, the more I'm leaning towards thinking the mistake was not moving him to LG and making Su'a-Filo make the transition to RG. Once again, this has all the writings of a team not wanting to admit they screwed the pooch on the Su'a-Filo pick. It could've been interesting to see how Allen would've performed playing between a healthy Brown and Mancz.

Biggest blunder of all in regards to the OL....RS having no clue that Brown was this angry about his situation with the FO. This anger was primarily aimed at RS. Sure, he had some anger towards McNair but had they negotiated with their only true LT and kept him happy....he'd got over McNair and just focused on football. Instead, he sits out the entire camp, Pre Season games and then shows up not ready to play....RS has had enough and trades him to Seattle. Don't be surprised if Brown has a full rebound season now that he'll be participating in the entire Seahawks off-season program. They'll have their LT and the Texans will still be looking for theirs.

How many bad seasons did they watch Newton play RT like a Bull Fighting Matador? Too many!! I was so sick of watching him just step out the way of a bull rush and watch it either crush the runner or put relentless pressure on the QB. He never produced a season of hope in my eyes....again, how did the guys making all this money miss something so obvious. Damn, it's not like they didn't have the picks or opportunities to address this situation in the draft.

I hope Gaine puts the required effort into this situation...his prized QB could be at risk for the long haul.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I'm not either, but obviously Ricky didn't value the OL like Gaine/you/me do.
Click to expand...

I think we both believe the same thing. I think we both just think it was caused by two different reasons.

I don't think there was a lack of value placed on the positions. During Smith's tenure, I noticed an alarming trend of a huge lack of foresight. The Texans did a good job of addressing needs but there was never any anticipation of addressing that need before it became a vital need. We always waited until we had a glaring hole before we made a move to address it.

I think Smith showed during his tenure that he was willing to use resources to address the OL. The problem was that he couldn't recognize a hole in the roster until it was already starting him in the face, which was made all the more frustrating because even people here would have been talking about the need to address a specific position for months and sometimes years and the Texans would just sit on it and wait until it was too late.

Specific to OL last year, I think they thought Brown was going to reverse course and come back to us. And there was never a second's thought or a plan made to address the situation if it didn't turn out that way.
 
bah007 said:
I think we both believe the same thing. I think we both just think it was caused by two different reasons.

I don't think there was a lack of value placed on the positions. During Smith's tenure, I noticed an alarming trend of a huge lack of foresight. The Texans did a good job of addressing needs but there was never any anticipation of addressing that need before it became a vital need. We always waited until we had a glaring hole before we made a move to address it.

I think Smith showed during his tenure that he was willing to use resources to address the OL. The problem was that he couldn't recognize a hole in the roster until it was already starting him in the face, which was made all the more frustrating because even people here would have been talking about the need to address a specific position for months and sometimes years and the Texans would just sit on it and wait until it was too late.

Specific to OL last year, I think they thought Brown was going to reverse course and come back to us. And there was never a second's thought or a plan made to address the situation if it didn't turn out that way.
Click to expand...

Great post and this is true.

Thing is they had holes at QB/LB/RT/S last year. They knew they had issues with Brown and should have drafted a RT that could have been groomed to replace DB. Instead they chose to address LB, which is an easier position to fill. Bottom line for me is the lack of foresight and not having a clue about roster building was Ricky's Greatest fault. Let's hope that has changed down on Kirby.

What do you think of the new OL additions?
 
steelbtexan said:
Great post and this is true.

Thing is they had holes at QB/LB/RT/S last year. They knew they had issues with Brown and should have drafted a RT that could have been groomed to replace DB. Instead they chose to address LB, which is an easier position to fill. Bottom line for me is the lack of foresight and not having a clue about roster building was Ricky's Greatest fault. Let's hope that has changed down on Kirby.

What do you think of the new OL additions?
Click to expand...

I think we are still clearly in the bottom half of NFL OLs, but also clearly much improved over last year's version.
 
steelbtexan said:
Great post and this is true.

Thing is they had holes at QB/LB/RT/S last year. They knew they had issues with Brown and should have drafted a RT that could have been groomed to replace DB. Instead they chose to address LB, which is an easier position to fill. Bottom line for me is the lack of foresight and not having a clue about roster building was Ricky's Greatest fault. Let's hope that has changed down on Kirby.

What do you think of the new OL additions?
Click to expand...
One would think Fleming and Waddle would both be Texans material - coming from a disciplined team with a similar system.
Get one of those two and this line will be vastly improved over last years version.
 
JB said:
No, your 'I'm gonna beyotch regardless cuz in hindsight I'm infallible and if they won the SB every year I'd still beyotch because it's what I do'
Click to expand...

Wow, Im sorry you think that of me.

I've been thinking about leaving for a while now and this seems like as good a time as any.


Y'all have a great time with the draft
 
steelbtexan said:
Thing is they had holes at QB/LB/RT/S last year. They knew they had issues with Brown and should have drafted a RT that could have been groomed to replace DB. Instead they chose to address LB, which is an easier position to fill. Bottom line for me is the lack of foresight and not having a clue about roster building was Ricky's Greatest fault. Let's hope that has changed down on Kirby.
Click to expand...

So you are suggesting the Texans should have drafted Antonio Garcia instead of Zach Cunningham? Picked Garcia simply because he was the highest OT drafted after Cunningham.

Cunningham looks like a stud that brings a lot of needed speed to our defense. Garcia didn’t play a down last season due to an illness. Boy, CnD would have had fun with that pick.
 
dream_team said:
So you are suggesting the Texans should have drafted Antonio Garcia instead of Zach Cunningham? Picked Garcia simply because he was the highest OT drafted after Cunningham.

Cunningham looks like a stud that brings a lot of needed speed to our defense. Garcia didn’t play a down last season due to an illness. Boy, CnD would have had fun with that pick.
Click to expand...

Dawkins was the player in question and highest rated OT drafted after Cunningham. And the one being suggested... Or did you mean that Garcia was highest rated on your personal board?
 
TheRealJoker said:
Dawkins was the player in question and highest rated OT drafted after Cunningham. And the one being suggested... Or did you mean that Garcia was highest rated on your personal board?
Click to expand...

I believe Garcia was the next tackle drafted after Cunningham.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Dawkins was the player in question and highest rated OT drafted after Cunningham. And the one being suggested... Or did you mean that Garcia was highest rated on your personal board?
Click to expand...
My bad. Was going off Wikipedia, which listed him as a guard when drafted. Also, a lot of pre-draft boards had him as a guard. I admit, don’t know much about him.
 
bah007 said:
I think we are still clearly in the bottom half of NFL OLs, but also clearly much improved over last year's version.
Click to expand...
When Deshaun Watson was healthy in 2017 the offensive line looked just fine to be honest. It was part of the #1 scoring offense in the entire league. Watson was breaking rookie records. They even put on a clinic in that 57-14 win over the Titans.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
When Deshaun Watson was healthy in 2017 the offensive line looked just fine to be honest. It was part of the #1 scoring offense in the entire league. Watson was breaking rookie records. They even put on a clinic in that 57-14 win over the Titans.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why people just didn't see that as well.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
When Deshaun Watson was healthy in 2017 the offensive line looked just fine to be honest. It was part of the #1 scoring offense in the entire league. Watson was breaking rookie records. They even put on a clinic in that 57-14 win over the Titans.
Click to expand...

You were watching Watson (deservedly so) more than the OL... he was running for his life
 
TheRealJoker said:
Says who? Mel Kiper or the team that started him at both tackle positions last year?
Click to expand...

The NFL on draft night is who said so...there's no need to be combative. Just because you don't agree with what dream_team is saying doesn't make him wrong. He was listed as Guard everywhere going into the draft.

Dawkins Profile:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/dion-dawkins?id=2557875

Draft Results:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:2
 
PapaL said:
The NFL on draft night is who said so...there's no need to be combative. Just because you don't agree with what dream_team is saying doesn't make him wrong. He was listed as Guard everywhere going into the draft.

Dawkins Profile:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/dion-dawkins?id=2557875

Draft Results:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:2
Click to expand...

I think his point was that the actual team that drafted him started him 11 times and played him in all 16 games and the only place he played was LT and RT. And he looked good enough for them to ship their franchise LT out of town.

Dawkins was considered an OT by just about everybody until he measured 6'4", then all of a sudden he didn't have the length to be an OT, never mind that he had the feet and one of the longest wingspans in the entire draft.
 
bah007 said:
I think his point was that the actual team that drafted him started him 11 times and played him in all 16 games and the only place he played was LT and RT. And he looked good enough for them to ship their franchise LT out of town.

Dawkins was considered an OT by just about everybody until he measured 6'4", then all of a sudden he didn't have the length to be an OT, never mind that he had the feet and one of the longest wingspans in the entire draft.
Click to expand...

This. Not trying to be combative. Just calling an offensive tackle an offensive tackle. Pointless argument at this point anyway hence why I put it in the random thought of the day thread in Spring.

Hope Gaine places more value on the OL for draft capital purposes than LB. Much easier to find a quality LB than it is an OL. Especially nowadays with all the spread offenses in college muddying up evaluations of Oline prospects.
 
bah007 said:
I think his point was that the actual team that drafted him started him 11 times and played him in all 16 games and the only place he played was LT and RT. And he looked good enough for them to ship their franchise LT out of town.

Dawkins was considered an OT by just about everybody until he measured 6'4", then all of a sudden he didn't have the length to be an OT, never mind that he had the feet and one of the longest wingspans in the entire draft.
Click to expand...

I totally get that. The point that was being made is that he was listed and drafted as an OG. He could play QB now but on draft night he was OG. That's all.
 
dream_team said:
So you are suggesting the Texans should have drafted Antonio Garcia instead of Zach Cunningham? Picked Garcia simply because he was the highest OT drafted after Cunningham.

Cunningham looks like a stud that brings a lot of needed speed to our defense. Garcia didn’t play a down last season due to an illness. Boy, CnD would have had fun with that pick.
Click to expand...
Garcia's "illness" was never well-publicized, but he developed blood clots which lodged in his lungs (pulmonary emboli).........life-threatening. Patients like this many time must be kept on blood thinners forever, depending on the source of the forming blood clots. Even if they are not, recurrence can still be a significant risk. Furthermore, Garcia in his freshman year missed half the season for an "nondisclosed knee injury." In fact, it was thought to be a simple meniscus tear, but in actuality it was much worse and required microfracture surgery. One of the main criticisms of Garcia in the Draft was his weight (below 190 consistently in college). This was probably purposeful to lessen trauma to the microfracture knee. And it was less important due to the lesser competition at Troy College (big fish in a small pond). He is now at 300 pounds, and it is not known if his knee will weather even this modest increase in weight in the NFL.
 
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