I sure would like to be able to get a couple of OL/TE/RB and a CB in the 3rd/4th rd range. They're currently 1 pick short. I think you can get Ballage and Fumigalli in the 4th. I wonder what they would have to trade to pick up and extra 4th?
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Thoughts on getting there from here - texans
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
I sure would like to be able to get a couple of OL/TE/RB and a CB in the 3rd/4th rd range. They're currently 1 pick short. I think you can get Ballage and Fumigalli in the 4th. I wonder what they would have to trade to pick up and extra 4th?
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
To pick up an extra 4th this year?
Would probably have to trade our 3rd next year.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Doom and gloom or hope and faith is based on circumstances, potential, and reality. Having all of this faith and hope is silly if the circumstances don't indicate that it has a high probability of being true. Doom and Gloom might have the stronger probability. There is nothing wrong with feeling that way, if you can't honestly feel confident. Having hope for the sake of having hope is forced. The Texans could come back and have a big year, but they have a ton of work to do and obstacles to work out for that to happen. I'm not highly confident it will.
If I thought I could get Fumagalli/Ballage I would do it in a heartbeat. Would you?
I consider them to be 2 solid starter level players. If Ballage can stay healthy he's a younger/cheaper version of Miller. IMHO Ballage is going to tear up the combine.
This yrs draft is very deep at certain positions.
Brett Toth looks like the best OT on the field today.
With the 2 yr military thing where do y'all think he goes? I've heard there are some exemptions. The other OT's I really like are small school guys Parker/Cappa. Both of them play with a mean streak. Unlike Davenport. Both of those guys could be starters early in their careers.
OG's I like are Wynn who has elevated himself to a top 20 pick. If Nelson is the 1st OG off the board then Wynn wont be far behind.
Wyatt Teller may be there in the 3rd for the Texans. He could waalk in the doors on Kirby and be the best OG since Brooks left the building. I look for him to have a long career.
With the 2 yr military thing where do y'all think he goes? I've heard there are some exemptions. The other OT's I really like are small school guys Parker/Cappa. Both of them play with a mean streak. Unlike Davenport. Both of those guys could be starters early in their careers.
OG's I like are Wynn who has elevated himself to a top 20 pick. If Nelson is the 1st OG off the board then Wynn wont be far behind.
Wyatt Teller may be there in the 3rd for the Texans. He could waalk in the doors on Kirby and be the best OG since Brooks left the building. I look for him to have a long career.
Yea Cappa is an interesting prospect, because he seems like a real bad-azz and a chip-on-shoulder type coming out of tiny Humbolt State.
And right unlike Davenport he seems to have that mean streak and also unlike Davenport (unfortunately) he's not very athletic and has modest length (33" arms), so Cappa is a guy in a phone-booth sorta Olineman (as Moyock is fond of saying), i.e, an inside guy who ends up at guard even though he played tackle in college.
I'm looking forward to Saturday to see how he does against the big boys ? Cappa start in the NFL in 2018, whoa there SteelB !
He can start at RT. Breno started at RT.
He needs experience but for the reasons you said, at worst he can play early ar OG. I think Cappa will only get much better as he plays against higher level competition. He's not used to playing against people that are this fast and have a spin move in addition to a a bull rush. 33 1/8 in arms are plenty long enough to play RT. How long are Bulaga's/Winston's arms?
This is why I see Cappa falling to the 4th rd and I would pick him. He's a very talented ball of clay right now.
Parker is like Davenport but is much more advanced and has much more of a mean streak than Davenport has. I see Davenport as a great athlete, but not really a football player. (No mean streak)
I agree he might get drafted in the 4th round but no sooner, and very possibly later in the Draft. And yea length is not as all-important at RT as LT, so he moves inside atleast early in his career but I'd guess that's where he remains. But it's gonna be interesting to see him play this weekend and get some game-time tape vs major college comp.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
My 2018 NFL Draft fear. It appears every NFL team has some type of question along their OL....especially at OT. I think this could lead to rush of picks going towards OL since the draft is fairly deep at every position along the OL.
On the positive side, not sure how big of a difference there will be talent wise from RD1 to RD3 or from RD4 to RD7. The success of this draft's OL talent could really be determined on coaching and blocking scheme employed. I feel like there is going to be a very good chance that several Day1 starters can be found in the mid-rounds this year. I just hope Gaine and O'Brien can find theirs.
On the positive side, not sure how big of a difference there will be talent wise from RD1 to RD3 or from RD4 to RD7. The success of this draft's OL talent could really be determined on coaching and blocking scheme employed. I feel like there is going to be a very good chance that several Day1 starters can be found in the mid-rounds this year. I just hope Gaine and O'Brien can find theirs.
Saw this from WalterFootball.com's Rumor Mill at the Senior Bowl on Thursday:
"Team sources told WalterFootball.com prior to the practice that Pitt offensive tackle Brian O'Neill and Oregon offensive tackle Tyrell Crosby helped themselves this week. They both had some nice wins in the one-on-ones to finish off their week. O'Neill has some athleticism and needs to continue to get stronger for the pro game. The height and lacking length of the 6-foot-4 Crosby worries some evaluators, but they feel his quick feet helped him to make up for it. They say Crosby doesn't have a good-looking body, but if he can develop his body he has potential for the NFL."
Read more: http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2018practice5.php#ixzz55KYuiUwZ
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2018practice5.php#AC3fjPt3O8Zh4GcL.99
I don't think O'Neill will make it to the 3rd round but Crosby could. I know some on this MB have been high on Crosby having seen some of his games. So, my question is, do the Texans go after Crosby in the 3rd rd and possibly move him to OG or should they put him in at RT if they select him?
"Team sources told WalterFootball.com prior to the practice that Pitt offensive tackle Brian O'Neill and Oregon offensive tackle Tyrell Crosby helped themselves this week. They both had some nice wins in the one-on-ones to finish off their week. O'Neill has some athleticism and needs to continue to get stronger for the pro game. The height and lacking length of the 6-foot-4 Crosby worries some evaluators, but they feel his quick feet helped him to make up for it. They say Crosby doesn't have a good-looking body, but if he can develop his body he has potential for the NFL."
Read more: http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2018practice5.php#ixzz55KYuiUwZ
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2018practice5.php#AC3fjPt3O8Zh4GcL.99
I don't think O'Neill will make it to the 3rd round but Crosby could. I know some on this MB have been high on Crosby having seen some of his games. So, my question is, do the Texans go after Crosby in the 3rd rd and possibly move him to OG or should they put him in at RT if they select him?
badboy
Hall of Fame
My reply is based on Texans resolving one of the OG spots in free agency; I think Crosby will be a possible RT if LT is decided with another player. I am concerned (yeah I know Texans drafted two OT once before) that Texans will only select one in third. Set aside FA as I don't see a solid LT; if more than one highly ranked guys fall to our third round picks I want both. I don't think Houston signs two OG starters in FA but do draft one that should start. IMO, Quess, Slade, Fuller & possibly Lamm (last contract year, 25 YOA, 6'5 305 ish) may play OG.
This is kind of the way I see it also. I think they will go after an OG in FA to replace XSF but he could play either OG position. My hope is that Davenport will make a "2nd year jump" and be that LT you mentioned could be "decided with another player." If they do draft Crosby they will probably put him at RT and then possibly draft another OT and an OG in the 3rd or 4th rd for more depth. I don't think Slade or Lamm will be back next season and if they do come back they will probably be camp cuts before the season starts. Still not sure if they keep Allen but I think he is still under contract and he could be insurance/depth if they go through another season with record setting injuries.
This would leave you an O-line like this:
RT--Draft Pick (Crosby), 2nd OT Pick (Swing OT)
RG--FA or Allen, Mancz or Fuller
OC--Martin, Mancz or Fuller
LG--Allen or FA, DQ or Fuller
LT--Davenport, 2nd OT Pick or Allen
It's a little thin at the 2 OT spots and very short on experience but the interior should be improved and have good depth. If they don't bring back Allen they could put Mancz as one of the OG's, but losing Allen would cut in to that experience and he's good to have in a pinch at LT.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Mancz has not shown much if anything to think he can play guard but first he needs to get a contract to play. If no other team wants him (he is restricted), he returns here, he needs to push and rest Martin. I'm very interested in how Fuller would do at OG in his second season.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/kyle-fuller?id=2557916 I wish I could make that clickable .... my ignorance on a computer is unmatched. I too, was always interested in what, if anything, Fuller might be able to contribute. I also wished I knew exactly what Quessenberry's exact physical status is. I wondered if I was the only one that saw Mancz as a better center than Martin. As it turns out, this draft looks to be shaking out/shaping up to one in which we could have built, so far, at least on paper, a very good line ..... if ..... we still had our early picks ! Beginning at #68 in the third round, we've got 4 picks in about 40 spots. We can do some damage if we're careful .... and lucky. I've watched and recorded both Shrine and Senior Bowl practices. I want Rankin to be at 6'5" 315/320 .... but I fear he's going to be more like 305. I'd wouldn't mind seeing Noteboom, Rankin, or Crosby on the roster. Let them fight it out for tackle and guard. Imagine Parker on one side and Davenport on the other .... talk about wingspans ! All that said, the only one I saw with serious quickness was Pitt's - O'neill .... you can't teach that !
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Some things that I would be totally against and for, this off-season.
1. I would not use any of the 2019 draft picks as trade chips for the 2018 NFL Draft. This team has a hole to get out of, so I would take what I could get this season via the draft. As I mentioned in a previous post, if this draft yields a couple of starters, a couple of solid rotation players and ST/developmental players, then high fives for everyone on a successful draft. The forms will have been set for building a bigger and better foundation for the future.
2. I would be more than willing to cut the right players to add much needed money to the cap. But, if any of these players could garner anything in a trade, then that's the route to go....even if they're RD7 picks or 2019 picks in return. I'm not saying that trades would be guaranteed but they do happen for much stranger reasons than most would believe. After Keenum went 0-8 so many folks on several boards laughed at the notion that he could be traded and the Texans would be lucky if they could get a can of SPAM in return. The Texans got a RD7 in return. Most of the guys mentioned on their wish list of cuts certainly have nicer NFL resumes, some ugly money attached but could yield some picks in return. Like I said, even if they help set the table for the 2019 draft....I'd be ok with this move since 2019 could be the big off-season and draft that accelerates the Texans back into "real" prominence.
1. I would not use any of the 2019 draft picks as trade chips for the 2018 NFL Draft. This team has a hole to get out of, so I would take what I could get this season via the draft. As I mentioned in a previous post, if this draft yields a couple of starters, a couple of solid rotation players and ST/developmental players, then high fives for everyone on a successful draft. The forms will have been set for building a bigger and better foundation for the future.
2. I would be more than willing to cut the right players to add much needed money to the cap. But, if any of these players could garner anything in a trade, then that's the route to go....even if they're RD7 picks or 2019 picks in return. I'm not saying that trades would be guaranteed but they do happen for much stranger reasons than most would believe. After Keenum went 0-8 so many folks on several boards laughed at the notion that he could be traded and the Texans would be lucky if they could get a can of SPAM in return. The Texans got a RD7 in return. Most of the guys mentioned on their wish list of cuts certainly have nicer NFL resumes, some ugly money attached but could yield some picks in return. Like I said, even if they help set the table for the 2019 draft....I'd be ok with this move since 2019 could be the big off-season and draft that accelerates the Texans back into "real" prominence.
Difference between Keenum and other guys is position played, and if you don't know how critical that is I would be shocked
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Agree, but when the Texans first traded Keenum, most were amazed they even found a trade partner. We will probably get to see this type of situation play out once again....only this time Savage will be entering the FA market. The Texans might've been better off feigning an injury after Game 1- first half, waiting 3 weeks and then putting him on the market before his real value was exposed. What kind of market do you see for Savage?
Savage may get a job as a backup, or the Texans may be calling him while he is in a deer blind
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
dream_team
Hall of Fame
A study showed that the odds of a 3rd round pick to become a starter in this league is 13%. So finding two quality starting players, without trading up, will be quite difficult.
13% sounds low. I had heard 30% about 10 years ago when Casserly traded a 3rd. I'll look at this later.
P.S. This link from pro-football reference is a list of 3rd rounders from 2006-2015.
Out of the 300 players included, 91 (30.3%) were primary starters for at least 3 seasons, 157 (52.7%) were primary starters for at least one season.
Looking at the list, positions such as DT, OG, and RB seem to hold the best value in the round. That makes sense. Interior players can make up for size/speed numbers with desire and ferocity. RBs seem to slip every year for reasons such as injury concern (Charles, Murray) or lack of exposure (David Johnson, Kareem Hunt). Looking at the 2018 draft, these trends may very well hold true.
P.P.S. Of the 300 3rd rounders listed fro 2006-2015, only 5 never played a down in the NFL. 2 of those were Texan draft picks. Both from the same draft. Sam Montgomery and Brennan Williams (2013).
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
This draft is deep and particularly deep in positions of need for the Texans. They got Foreman in RD3 last season and had O'Brien utilized him sooner, who knows what kind of season he might've had with Watson on the field at the same time. Can't keep an eye on everyone at once. If the Texans were to get a RB, OL and TE in RD3...much would depend on the names drafted but there could be 3 starters from RD3. "Could" being the operative word...that's up to the braintrust of Gaine, O'Brien and the scouts.
I think 2013 was a weak draft overall and for the Texans it was especially bad. That Sam Montgomery pick was the only 3rd rd Compensatory pick the Texans have ever received (so far) and it was for losing Mario Williams. What a total waste! Surprisingly, there are 3 players still left from that draft on the roster although one of them, DQ, has not played until this year and only for a few plays. Nuk, of course, is the one gem of the group. Ryan Griffin has been good at times but may not play with the Texans much longer. He, like Fiedorowicz, has been having concussion issues I believe.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am creating moves to my off season thread. Allen has been a cut on my board since partway thru his 1st season. I am prob gonna change that. His age, costs, possible improvement if healthy plus starting at LG could make him more appealing. Still want Norwell. Those 2 at starting guards can allow Texans to go with lower rounds for developmental guys to replace Allen eventually. That also opens round 3 for BPA. I'm also posting soon two OTs free agents to sign. Ok with over paying some on vets who are expected to start. This must be an impactful off season..not JAG choices.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Just starting to get mine together from an indepth perspective. There are some FA who could help right away on defense and some who could help bridge the developmental gap on offense....although, there is 1 offensive FA I'd like to see the team sign that isn't a bridge player and should bring some nasty diversity to the gameplan.
badboy
Hall of Fame
looking forward to your report. It is not hard to say "we should get that guy" but to get a player who will fit into this roster is. Do we go after a guy for X amount of dollars for 1-2 seasons or X + dollars for someone much better and can play longer. Hard to evaluate how development players will..develop, most is just individual poster's opinion.
I have wanted Noteboom since I first watched him - mid season. He easily dominated opponents in the regular season, but looked sluggish and kind of non-committed in the Senior Bowl. I need to watch him again. If one were to make a list of attributes for an offensive lineman, I think it would look something like .... 1) Athleticism 2) Intellect 3) Character 4) Tenacity .... I'm sure there are better/more complete lists on every draft site .... but my point is that Noteboom has all of those in spades. So does Davenport. I would like to see them partnered on the line - Butch and Sundance .... Mathews and Munchak .... Bagwell and Biggio .... like brothers. Speaking of brothers, Davenport has one, a Corsican Brother in the upcoming draft. He is Brandon Parker - 6'7" 323 and longest wingspan in the class. Add Rankin or Crosby to that mix and you've got a group that fills the bill. Then you have to ask one last question that only time will answer .... "Yeah, but is he a Football Player" ?
I like Noteboom alot and it looks like he may fall to rd 4. I'm pretty sure he can start early at OG and if Gaine was to get lucky at RT. Certainly an upgrade over Breno.
What does Davenport's play last yr makes you think he's ready to be a starting LT in the NFL?
I know Davenport had an overall grade from PFF of 47.6 playing only 21.87% of the snaps, but his last game (start at LT) against the Colts he had the highest PFF rating at 81.9. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-indianapolis-colts-22-houston-texans-13 The last 2 games of the season when he started at LT I don't think he gave up any sacks. So there was improvement throughout the season. He has all the physical tools to be a good NFL LT. All he needs is the off season to get stronger and work on his technique and I think you will see a much improved LT.
So, why do you think he will not improve steelb?
I do think he will improve, but not enough for me to be comfortable protecting the franchise QB who's coming off his 2nd ACL surgery. Especially being the full time LT protecting DW4's blindside.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If you can upgrade from him with a FA I certainly agree. But I wouldn't expect a rookie 3rd in a weak OT class to be better. Now RT is a whole different equation. When you've got jack, it's not hard to improve.
Depending on which rookie, I would agree with you.
I think Crosby/Richardson would be better.
I just got thru watching Richardson and that guy has the ability to be a starting LT early in his career. He did get suspended for a couple of games last yr. Undisclosed team violations. Without those I think Richardson is a 1st rd pick.
To me, on about 1/3 to 1/2 of the plays, he looks to be in position and in control. Not that he has much competition to compare to - (on our offensive line), but I don't see the sluggish movements, followed by the frenetic and desperate attempts to recover that I see in the rest of our linemen. Just watching the way he moves, when into correct position, makes me think that he will continue to improve. I swear, if you've watched offensive linemen as closely and as long as I have, you can tell a lot by the way they move.
Feet/Balance are 2 of the most important things an OL can have.
Crosby/Richardson have the feet/balance. Believe it or not Harrison/Noteboom have great balance/movement skills too.
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Here is an article I stumbled across from TexansCap about the Free Agent OT market this year and how bad it is. http://texanscap.com/2018/02/07/free-agent-preview-offensive-tackles/ Basically, you may have a chance of picking up either Solder (PFF Grade = 69.0) or Hubbard (PFF Grade = 70.5) but you will have to offer them a very large contract to out bid all the other teams vying for their services that need an OT. If you can get one of these 2 then you end up with a good, but not great, OT that you overpaid for.
If you can't get one of them then the Draft is your only option left. And, with OT being a prime need for a lot of teams, the good OT's that have the capability to start early at RT or LT will probably be gone by the 2nd round, including Crosby. Though I think he may last till late 2nd round. The question then becomes do the Texans move up and get him or sit tight and hope he falls?
If you can't get one of them then the Draft is your only option left. And, with OT being a prime need for a lot of teams, the good OT's that have the capability to start early at RT or LT will probably be gone by the 2nd round, including Crosby. Though I think he may last till late 2nd round. The question then becomes do the Texans move up and get him or sit tight and hope he falls?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Every year the overpaid word gets thrown around like there was an LT aisle at the store, they were labeled $5.99 and you tossed a $10.
Ever heard of supply & demand? The NFL is an auction, not a Walmart.
Ever heard of supply & demand? The NFL is an auction, not a Walmart.
You over pay for Hubbard so you have a vet LT who has upside. You trade up using a 2019 2nd (Preferably Seattle's) to get Crosby and draft an OG. Then you have the makings of a young OL with the ability to grow.
Hubbard (Who can play multiple OL positions and there's great value in that.) is somebody you overpay to help keep DW4 healthy. I would probably sign Pugh in addition to drafting a couple of guys. Keeping DW4 Healthy is job #1.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just accept that little Jay (your shoulder draftnik demon of course) doesn't reach that far instead of trying to trade him.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Carlos Watkins can help get us there:
I read soon after Texans drafted him that he was compared to Watt..now no one needs hissy fit as not saying he will be JJ but if he can give Watt some time off field it could help Watt going forward.
entire article here https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/2/8/16989784/houston-texans-rookie-review-carlos-watkins
I read soon after Texans drafted him that he was compared to Watt..now no one needs hissy fit as not saying he will be JJ but if he can give Watt some time off field it could help Watt going forward.
badboy
Hall of Fame
https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...ller-the-texans-run-game-what-the-numbers-say
Man if O'Brien cannot see this and change it..
edit: need to add for Miller
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...ller-the-texans-run-game-what-the-numbers-say
Man if O'Brien cannot see this and change it..
edit: need to add for Miller
There was a reason why the Dolphins used him more as a change of pace type of runner. I viewed Miller as an explosive 3rd down back who could be utilized to create mismatches when he came out of the backfield as a receiver. O'Brien has used him like he's a 6-0 to 6-2 / 225 to 235 lb. up the gut type of runner....whoops I just identified Foreman and Blue....to think he had them both for most of last season or at least until Week 11 for Foreman and Blue not until after Week 5 (I think).
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Miller was not suited to the type of game he was needed to play but what could O'Brien do?
Blue was not effective enough.
However, I did think Foreman was under utilized.
We need another bellcow back in here and I'm pumping for Jerrick McKinnon.
Our current situation at RB highlights just how good and how pivotal to this offense Arian Foster was when he was on the field - one of the best offensive weapons we ever had.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'm looking at Josh Allen, Norte Dame in the draft. I think he's an O'Brien type of RB, not to mention he's a coach's type of player. You know, when I'm talking...you're learning...when you're learning, you're listening...when your listening, you keep your mouth shut, type of guy.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Will check him out.
I'm almost @t the point of going full bore looking into the draft.
badboy
Hall of Fame
What could O'Brien do? Do what he did with Watson, plan around his skills to be successful. Utilize Miller's speed! Go even more passing ball to him. You don't have to have your premier back as a power back to be winner. You have a power back to use in Red Zone and 3rd and short.